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I see a stripper manual 02 Prizm with 50k miles advertized by a local small used card dealer for 6.8k. But the number of Prizms for sale seems a fraction of what it was a year (or two) ago. BTW, one nice thing about buying a car with a manual is that you know it is NOT an ex-rental.
Here's a interesting deal (I am perpetually looking for a minivan:) 2004 MPV LX with 24k for 12k asking at a dealer. They listed it for 15k about a month ago. The Mazda is an ex-rental from Utah, FWIW. Rear air but not side airbags, or course.
I made sure to put it through a thorough Ford Dealer inspection, CarFax report, test drive, examined all the problems with it, pulled all maintenance records for all dealers it was ever at and made an offer for $8K after all was said and done. The truck was in reasonable shape with the exception of some holes and stains in the carpet, a crappy bedliner, scratched tinting and a slight transmission/oil leak underneath. There was light touch up painting done to get rid of small scratches too.
The dealer called in the Sales Manager who proceeded to belittle me and accuse me of being a fool, unknowledgable of car conditions and pricing and "out of my area of expertise" so I couldn't possibly appraise the condition of the vehicle or come to a reasonable price.
He pulled out the "black book" and said that he could get $11K at auction for the vehicle so he wouldn't go any lower than that. I told him that if that were true, the truck wouldn't have been sitting on his lot for 5 months. He told me the light truck market was rebounding due to the hurricanes and that he could unload it easily.
It was a heated conversation. We were yelling at each other and the whole sales floor was standing outside listening to everything that was going on. We parted ways and I left the scene, shaking hands with my original sales rep and telling him to contact me if the price went lower or something within that price range opened up. He said he would. As I was leaving, I heard the sales staff talking about me and they all came to the window to watch me leave.
I am going to let them stew for a few days, maybe a week. Should I wait for them to call me back or should I send them an e-mail offering to raise my offer? If so, should I go with the black kbook price or keep it within the $8K-9K ballpark?
Anyone know what the current market indices are for 2002 Ford Ranger pickups according to Manheim? Am I being a little to agressive asking 8K or should I stick to my guns?
"Anyone know what the current market indices are for 2002 Ford Ranger pickups according to Manheim? Am I being a little to agressive asking 8K or should I stick to my guns?"
Dude, the belittling may continue right here...
Four years old, low miles... $8 is a good offer for a 4cyl stick 2wd... in the rust belt... not so realistic for a 4.0 V6 with 5sp automatic and 4wd in Texas...
Aside from that, if you're yelling while purchasing anything, you're doing it wrong...
-Mathias
Over 100 have gone through Manheim auctions over the last few weeks.... The average price was about $9700 (as high as $11k, as low as $7k). After maintenance, shop work, tires, reconditioning, the dealer is probably looking at a cost of $11k. If he's had it for 5 months, then his cost is no doubt higher. Hence the asking price of $14k. Based on this, IMHO, $8k is an unreasonable asking price.
BTW, what did you yell at the salesperson and sales manager about? Did you just not believe them that they could sell it for more at the auction? I guess I don't understand what you could possibly yell at them about....
At auction in FL, as near as I can estimate, these bring $11 with 30-40k miles, give or take five, six, seven hundred bucks.
Add the fee, the transport, any recon, the pack, and our friend "hits the table", as Terry calls it, at $12. Of course, the oil leak would have to be fixed for it to be worth that, but that's a $500 affair, not the end of the world.
I wouldn't sit by the phone...
-Mathias
A beautiful example of how "one price" sales and "so much over cost" really doesn't make much sense in cars... the darned thing is worth LESS now, not more, than 5 months ago... nonetheless, it'll be like pulling teeth getting them to take a loss, and market value be damned. It's just human nature; it works on UC managers just as much as on consumers.
It "should" be a matter of what's a car worth, but it'll always be easier to get a deal on something the manager stole yesterday for a quick turn&burn than it'll be to get the same deal on something he overpaid six months ago.
-Mathias
He did admit that he was in to the vehicle for $12,500 after taking ownership and making improvements but also admitted that was his mistake and fault, not mine. So, I guess he gave a little wiggle room.
I am not financing, want no add-ons and do not have a trade in. I also portrayed myself to them as a just out of college student with high debt and no job prospects. I think it helps me establish that I want a low price and am paying cash from a limited money supply.
What dealers fees will they try to add on on top of the vehicle price that I should be worried about?
If it was a nice clean 02 LSI auto, the dealer would probably see the tall $8's low $9's ....
Terry.
Her Dad, who lives overseas, is pushing her towards a used Toyota... the local dealer is offering a really stripped but otherwise healthy '01 Corolla CE with the 3sp auto and 40k miles... CPO... for $11. I just about lost it; that is not a very nice car.
Faced with that situation, I'm recommending Prizms again... but man, 2 years ago someone here bought a very clean 4sp auto base Prizm with power stuff and 36k miles, nothing wrong except bald tires down the left side, for $6.
I daresay that a nice '01 with 50k miles would bring the same amount today. So much for depreciation.
-Mathias
My wife has a 2000 Corolla CE, and I hate the car, but it does get good gas mileage.
I've been amazed by the same thing for at least a year now... I have seen people trade in a car and take a HUGE hit in negative equity so they can get a smaller car that gets better gas mileage. Financial, it is the most ridiculous thing!
Let's break it down.... Say you drive 12k/year and gas is $2.50/gallon. If your car gets 20 mpg, then you'll pay $1500/year in gas. If your car gets 30 mpg, then you'll pay $1000/year in gas.
Yet I have seen people drop $5000 in negative equity, then also have to pay tax, fees, etc.... Sometimes to save as little as 5 mpg!!! Insane!
Terry.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I pretty much knew I was lowballing the guy so it is not surprising that he responded negatively to my offer. Granted, he shouldn't have been so insulting about it but, I don't really expect too much from used car salesmen anyway. I will probably drop them an e-mail next Monday and offer to raise the offer but make it clear that I will not accept anything higher and expect certain things to be fixed first. The market is not currently favorable to light trucks according to the Manheim indexes I have gotten from several people and the Manheim summary statistics. It is actually in negative growth. The longer they wait to sell it, the less value it retains.
I have the edge in the negotiations at this point despite their assertions to the contrary. He thinks I only have $8K and no more with no possibility of getting more and I walked out after he turned me down.
The next step will be to let him stew over the lost deal, see if he makes contact with me over the weekend and then, if he doesn't, I will submit a higher but still relatively low bid on the vehicle ($9K). I will act as though I have "thought about the pricing and reflected on what the sales manager had to say" and then run this lowball on him again.
Ultimately, I don't realy care if the guy insults my mother and shoots at me. If I walk away with a cheap truck, it will be worth the ordeal.
The old rule of thumb in negotiations for buyers is to start the bid out low right? The rule of thumb for sellers was to start high and do everything you can to convince the buyer that the high price is justified. This seller just took the agressive route and thought psychological warfare was the way to go.
But...you offered 6000.00 less than they were asking??? Just how much do you think a store marks up their used cars?
And, I can't believe you would even think about returning to a place of business that treated you like that!
Are those trucks that hard to find in your area?
In ten years, I have NEVER had anyone offer me that much less than an asking price on a used car!
I would have been TICKED if I had spent a lot of time with a non-serious buyer test driving etc only to get a ridiculous offer.
I would have controlled my anger however.
He should have kept his cool and moved on.
Personally, if the OP called, I don't know if I would waste my time replying to his message ...
I'd like to add: "Don't hold your breath for them to call you back."
From where I sit, you got bubkes...
Go somewhere else, start over. Find a car, don't talk price, come here and ask on RWTIV what it's worth.
Then take it from there.
-Mathias
I have been burned by previous used car dealers. Last car I bought blew a rod and damn near everything else a few months after purchase. Worst car I ever had in my life. In the negotiations, the price started out at one number and by the time I was done, it was up to 1.5X the price originally quoted. I'm not getting screwed again.
How much do I think the dealer marks up their cars? I'd say roughly 30-50% of the value of the vehicle on average.
The customer always starts with the edge in the negotiation. The salesman's job is to take that edge away from you.
(1) The customer has the money; the dealer wants your money more than his car. That's how he makes a living.
(2) The customer needs only one vehicle; the dealer wants to sell as many as possible. You shouldn't care where you buy; the dealer most certainly cares.
(3) The customer can walk at any time; the salesman works there and has a manager breathing down his neck looking for a close.
(4) The salesman has more experience and information than the customer. So it's up to the customer to educate himself and to shop around to close the information gap. Get a CarFax, have the car inspected by a competent mechanic, research prices online.
> The old rule of thumb in negotiations for buyers is to start the bid out low right?
Make an offer, an offer that's reasonable for you, an offer you'll be happy with. The salesman will turn down your offer (he's looking for your top offer); he'll talk monthly payment. Then politely walk out. If you try to negotiate, you'll lose. Negotiating means making concessions and that's losing. As long as your original offer was reasonable, you will hear from the salesman. Prospects don't grow on trees.
If no one accepts your offer, then it was too low. Raise your offer and try again. Most people don't have the patience for this; they'll let the buying process wear them down. That's what the salesman is counting on, that's just one way he'll try to control the negotiation, chipping away your resistance to a bad deal. Patience is a virtue, a lucrative virtue.
Some people read too many car buying books!
You're right, the guy was waaay out of line and the situation got out of control ...
But I have to ask, why would you low ball the dealer and antagonize the situation when you knew your offer was in left field...? .. it's like putting a fire out with gasoline ... A good negotiater is always ready with the next offer, and if you're not ready, then why be there ..?
This reminds me of a friend that's been down here lookin' to buy a house in the area for the last 3 months .. the only problem is, he's offering 20 to 25% less than the asking price - then he wonders why he's been thru 4 real estate agents and he's still lookin after 3 months ..l.o.l....
$9,000 truck .....?? .. not on this planet .........
11/01/05 FAAO Regular $11,500 30,250 Above SILVER 6G A Yes
11/08/05 FAAO Regular $10,600 42,194 Avg WHITE 6G A Yes
11/17/05 MISS Regular $10,600 44,221 Avg GREEN 6G A Yes
11/17/05 GTR TMPA Regular $10,700 49,847 Avg BLUE 6G A Yes
11/08/05 FAAO Regular $9,400 51,146 Avg SILVER 6G A Yes
11/03/05 GTR TMPA Lease $8,900 63,465 Avg SILVER 6G O Yes
11/28/05 AYCOCK Lease $4,200 65,825 Below BLACK 6G A No
11/22/05 GA DLRS Lease $6,600 79,381 Below TRDO.RED 6G A No
.. step up, or step out .... but step ....
Terry
I am ready with the next offer but I just didn't want ot make it right there on the spot. I think it is better to tell him that he is being unreasonable and then come back with a higher but still low offer. It may take longer to seal the deal but the chances of my receiving a good deal increase dramatically everytime I walk out the door. They will keep wondering whether I will come back and whether time is running out.
I have crafted my recontact e-mail. I am going to propose 9k (before tax tag title and 5% profit) and see if that at least brings him to a negotiating point. I won't mention that profit is included until I have him at a manageable point. I'll use it at leverage. That way it will make him look foolish for assuming that I don't think he deserves to make some money on the car.
I am anticipating paying a maximum of $11,300 after tax, tag, title, dealers fees, profit and all the extras they aren't going to sell me.
It's pretty sick when your goal is to make the salesperson and manager look foolish.... :confuse:
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It costs money to send the truck off to wholesale - transport, fees etc. Plus, the chance that the truck won't sell for the average wholesale value. The thing has been sitting on their lot for 5 months.
If the wholesale value is say $10K even, the auction fees, shipping etc is $500, I want to buy the truck for $9,501.
$10,700 at the auction
-$150 transport
-$225 auction fee
-$150 misc
______________________
$10,175
Now I understand why you two got into a beef ....
Terry.
If you are serious about the truck go on in and make them your best offer . The worst they can say is no. Then you move on to something else.
I have a friend that will go in and test drive a car. If he likes it he gets a quote and leaves. He will then counter the proposal by mail. Not e-mail , by mail. And his counter is always ridiculously low. I guess that saves him the embarrassment of the salesman laughing at him.
This method was successful a total of ZERO times.He never even got a call back, or so he claims.
Finally he stayed and negotiated for his last vehichle.
Did he leave some money on the table, possibly but not much. But he has a car he likes and was happy with price.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I was just a little attached to this one because it is the same color and model as my last truck. No biggie.
Has it dawned on you that while you are trying to figure out ways to outsmart that dealer that another buyer just may come along and snap that truck up?
I guess you don't care. If it sells you can begin your little dance in another store.
Just a question? Are you a wholesaler? Do you have a wholesale license?? Just wondering since you are throwing all these wholesale #s around.
You know you will have the same buying experience, maybe minus the personal jabs, but you will probably be kicked out of a few dealerships for making rediculous offers. And then you are going to write again about how poorly you are being treated.
Negotiation is about finding a middle ground that makes everyone happy. Making concessions is not losing the battle its getting you closer to where you want to be.
What you want to pay and what REALITY is are on two different planets.
And Oh ya, if you make an offer to a dealer, we are excited to sell a car always, but not to give a way a car.
I think Im done for now....
I'm not complaining about being treated poorly. I don't expect anything less from used car dealers. I knew I would get treated poorly walking into the place.
One approach to negotiation is to find a middle ground that makes everyone happy. That's called a win-win situation in most peoples books. I don't see it that way. I was always taught that no matter what, if the other side wins anything, you have lost.
My approach to negotiations is to take the other guy to the cleaners as much as I can and maximize my interests. The dealer is doing just that and it is expected. Why can't I play ball at their level?
I never said I wanted to make friends at the dealership or care whether they make any profit on the vehicle. They make money hand over fist on unsuspecting people everyday and I am going to make sure that I at least take a bite out of their butt. If a dealer says that they wouldn't want me as a customer, I take that as a compliment and a reason to continue my tactics rather than modify my approach.
The key here is that the dealer has had this truck on his lot for 5 months, advertised it all over the place, on the internet, newspapers, magazines etc but no one has bitten. If someone was going to walk in and buy it, they would have already. Going into the Christmas season, people aren't looking to buy vehicles especially used cars. They are all taking new cars with super low financing direct from the factory or not buying at all. Those that are aren't out looking for trucks. They are looking for smaller fuel efficient cars. True, the demand for these cars has diminished since gas has gone down a dollar but it is still high and there is not indication that the trucks have rebounded yet. They have actually gone down 1% over the past year.
Terry
I would give my left kidney to have as much useless time to jack with dealers.
You are buying a $10000.00 truck, its not brain surgery, its not that serious. Seriously, I sell $78000.00 cars and my clients don't even haggle like you do.
You have your opinions and views. And, granted the industry has a bad rap, but most carsalespeople are just trying to make a living not screw you over. They are someone's son, daughter, husband. Unless that particular dealer did you wrong, I understand why you would come on the offesive, but to have this attitude with every dealer and WASTE someones time, and assume that because you make a pitiful offer on a car that they should run around and earn your business is asenine. The only dealers that will do business with you are the ones you speak negatively about who are not reputable because you both speak the same language.
You still did not tell me if you had a wholesale license either.
And buy the way, December is one of the best months in Car Sales. Who said it was the worst?
Use your passionate dislike for Car Dealers and fight Terrorism or something.....
As quoted from my favorite TV Character FES on That 70s Show
"I say Good Day!" :mad:
P.S for such a slow month in car sales I have already sold two cars before NOON.
Just because I don't have a wholesale license does not mean I am not capable of comprehending what a wholesale price is or finding out the wholesale price of a specific vehicle.
Sure, they are someone's family member. So was Adolph Hitler (bad example I know.) The point isn't whether they should be paid for work or treated as a human being, its whether they should be paid for honest work and be treated as an honest human being. I'm sorry, we must disagree about the characteristics of the majority of car salespeople, but every single car dealer I have ever dealt with, new, used, financing, non-financing, no-haggle/haggle etc has all been out to rob me. Several have done so. There is no such thing as an honest car salesperson or dealer.
Since you have been on the board for FOUR days, folks on Edmunds don't appreciate being labeled as dishonest ...
Really.....Okay all buyers are liars.
So since you don't think its honest work, they shouldnt be paid, but you run around trying to earn your business. Like I said before the reason you havent met an honest dealer is because you are not honest yourself. Birds of a feather flock together.
The reason you I asked you about Wholesale license is because you want to buy a car as cheap as a wholesaler.
You know why are you even researching because you are pay what you want.
No matter what you buy you are not going to be happy so go get a wholesale license and buy all the cars you want......you will be in control of what you pay.
I am so done......I have better things to do like rip my customers heads off, and mark up rate 6 points ect.....
I said good day :mad: