Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
The dealer certainly paid for the car; either at auction or directly to the financial institution.
When Terry says something "hits the table at $4,800", than that means the dealer's cost is $4,800, including reconditioning and the amount of money that is thought to be necessary to keep the lights on. It is unlikely that anybody can buy a used car for that figure, but $500 to $1,500 will usually be sufficient.
There is no such thing as a six-year-old car -- or a two-year-old car -- in "perfect" condition.
Just passing along what I've learned in these hallowed halls, I remain,
-Mathias
Buddy of mine bought a '97 528i FOUR years ago, with 100k on the clock. Nothing of any consequence has gone wrong on that car; he needed new brakes, and a cup holder. Plus oil changes.
The five-series in general has a better reputation than either the "3" or the "7". This is per my mechanic and per the boys at the dealer's shop. Go figure.
-Mathias
In this case, I tried for $1200 over Terry's estimate of the dealer's cost and was flat refused (as in the sales manager saying, "Absolutely not, we will not sell it for that price, period.") And that was without fixing the bumper or the 60k service (which according to both the dealer and Edmunds.com costs about $500 on that car).
I think it will be my last used car purchase, since it seems to be a no-win proposition. If you find one with low miles, it's either a salvage title or high priced. If you buy one with higher miles, even if they are all on the highway, it's "watch out, the tranny will drop out of the car!" I guess I'll just keep buying those new Hyundais with the long warranties so I don't need to worry about that kind of stuff.
Bimmers are nice, but expensive to repair, very expensive ... The LS you were looking at over at "Real World" also seemed to be nice and Lexus has a better long term track record than most Bimmers, but it also had more miles .... that said, any higher mileage vehicle can have a repair .. compressor, the rear window fails, etc ... and in any high-end vehicle you're going to pay "high end" money, it may not be today or tomorrow, but it could be in 9 months and 16 days .....
What everyone is just trying to tell you is (and they're just trying to help) if and when it breaks, it ain't like putting a wiper motor on a Nissan or a power window switch on a Buick, it's bucks - Big Bucks .... if you are stretching to get to $4,000 then to $6,000 then perhaps maybe these aren't the types for you ...
Buying older vehicles is just like buying a 25 year old house ... "I know" I'm going to spend $10,0/$15,000 to make it the way I want it, but I'm also $75,000 back of market .. but first, you can bet I'm going to have the best home inspector, electrician, carpenters lookin' at that dude (with me standing there) to go thru it with a fine tooth comb .. if they find a super major problem, what's my worst case scenario.? .. I paid $600 for a few hours work and I didn't make a $360,000 mistake - cheap insurance ... it's not the amount you just spent, it's the amount you're getting ready to lose ..l.o.l...
Forget car shopping, start history shopping first via the Vin# .. then look at cars and have a top tech waiting in the wings ... maybe the Bimmer is out of Buffalo were they get 100 million tons of snow and salt a year, maybe it's been painted 2 or 3 times, maybe the tranny has coughed up a lung in 99 and it's been in the shop 13 times for it - you can find that on the BMW service computer down the street from you with the Vin# ..... $5,900 seems kinda low for LA .. maybe there's a reason, maybe not ..
Luck ................
Terry.
Terry.
A '95 525i can make a nice old car, but it's not a good choice as a daily driver and not a good choice if money is tight.
I'm thinking that if a 'cheap' bimmer is wanted, a 5-series is a decent choice... as is a late-eighties E class. If they're all there.
All of these require an old Corolla in the driveway. Just in case.
-Mathias
Mathias, speaking of old corollas and the like, what do you think of the 90-93 Celicas and 92-96 Preludes.
I'm thinking about replacing my 93 Probe with one of those.
Also I'm in Toronto and considering driving to your neck of the woods and bringing one back here.
I could really use some advice. We can get a 2005 Kia Sedona Ex from a private individual w/ 250 miles on it for $16,000. It is also loaded with leather/moonroof and ABS. It does not seem to be a crash or flood car. I checked the carfax and also reviewed paper work. It was bought north of us locally where there has been no flooding etc. He got it due to family pressure but really wanted a truck instead. The guy owns a recreational trailer park near a local attraction. Appears very authentic.
Anyway, with tax and title it would be approx $17,320. We can geta new 2005 from dealer for $19,604 w/tax due to $4200 rebate. It would be an LX with convenience package but no moonroof/leather/ABS. On the used there would be a 4 year warranty (one year used up) and no 100000 power train (only original owner gets this).
It's a tight call. Should we go with the new and get the new finance rate and the total warranty package as new? Or save $2,300 and get a very lightly used but lose some warranty.
Also, the old car does have all the bells etc which retails for $2000 extra so.... we could then be saving $4000 or so total. But we don't have to have leather and moon roof. ABS is the thing I will really miss...
On top of that, I wonder if I shouldn't just wait for the Kia end of year 2006 sale with the redesigned MPG savings etc. So far my car is still going. It has been a great car for the last 12 years. I literally bought it from an old lady with 5000 miles on it. It is just getting old and I worry about safety etc with child. And God help us this summer if we have to evacuate again.
Any advice appreciated so I can move on
MaryL Mom to one 4 year old
supposedly in excellent condition.
my wife has a client who wants to sell it this weekend, (got a new lexus for x-mas)
she was asking $6K, but is flexible...
private sale avg between Edmunds, kelly and NADA is about $4K
any thoughts
(I have seen two 1998 Volvo S90's on craigslist, with 100,000 and 125,000 miles, both asking around $6K...is this the better car/deal?)
Thanks in advance for everyone's input
If you really want the Powertrain warranty, see how much it costs to add it (from Kia). You will still likely be way ahead of the game, and don't have to add it now.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
There is no reason to think your Camry with 147K miles is going to quit on you anytime soon. It's still probably on par with the Kia in terms of reliability. And it's worthless in terms of trade-in value. My advice - keep it until it dies and then replace.
Stay away from the 940. It's got a history of problems longer than your arm.
-Jason
I have never been to a bank's auction. I expect several dealers will be there. I was wondering what the maximum a dealer would pay for it in order to turn a profit.
Here are my questions for you:
1) If the interior looks like heck, how likely is it that the repo'd party took care of the vehicle? You have a risky brand with a risky maintenance record. Not a winning combination.
2) If the person could not afford the payments, how likely was it that the usual preventative maintenance was done (not likely)?
3) Will you have an opportunity to drive the vehicle and see how the engine and transmission are running? Will you be able to have your mechanic throw it up on the lift for an inspection?
That alone is enough for me to walk, or run from this auction.
I thought about checking its records through Carfax. Could the dealer let me know about its maintenance records if I gave them its VIN # or is this info given through Carfax?
The dealer probably wouldn't drop much more than $12 into it ... even with it only having 250 little bitty miles and even with it being loaded-up they still don't want the product themselves unless they can flat steal it - thats why the folks couldn't trade it ..... and thats why someone is trying to get $16,000 for it on the streets, the 250 miles alone should tell you something ...
Lets make this simple ... see that odometer on that Camry that reads 147,000 miles .? .. try getting that out of a Hyun/Kia product.! .... there is ttttons of nice vehicles out there, take you time looking for one and go from there .. the last vehicle I'd want to be in our next evacuation would be Kia ..l.o.l...
Terry.
It is NOT easy with the electronic odometers and the penalities are so severe that few people would attempt such a thing!
With Car Fax information available, I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to try this in this day and age.
Let's see... Digital odometers are either stored in the ECU, or the odometer itself. Anyone with OBDII cable and a laptop or even a palmpilot can log into the ECU and re-flash it to read whatever they want it to read. If the mileage is stored in the odometer, the job is even easier, just swap out the odometers. There are tons and tons of low miles, or ZERO miles odomters on ebay. This is the visible part fo the iceberg. The real crooks, don;t buy on ebay, they have their own channels. Anything with an EEPROM can be reflashed.
I have put Reverse Indiglo gauges in my CR-V. There was no tamper device that would have alerted anyone that I took the cluster out of the vehicle and opened it. I could have just as easily swapped the odometer unit, or just got a ZERO miles cluster from ebay.
Yes, there is Carfax, but carfax is only as good as what someone reports to it. So, the first report was when the car was sold to me at the dealer, the next report will be when I go in for the annual inspection, or involved in an accident (god forbid).
Seems like a piece of cake to me. Am I missing something?
I have an aquaintance (can't really call him a friend), who leased a Mitzubishi, he rolled back the odometer with a tooth pick through the trip meter release button. Mitzubishi got it back with exactly 36,000 miles, even though the car had over 100,000 on it. He was careful to do in increments, before annual inspection every year, and before going to the dealer for scheduled (according to the mileage on the odometer) service. Only he knows the true mileage on that car. But with a 60 mile one way commute (120 miles/day) * 5 days a week * 50 weeks * 3 years = 90,000 miles, plus the leisure trips on weekends and other destinations.
Some poor slob will pay top dollar for a 3 years old Galant with ONLY 36,000 miles for an off-lease Certified Preowned vehicle. I am never buying used cars ever again!
Why are you telling us.?
If you were an upright citizen .. you would have reported him to the authorities a long time ago.!
Terry :confuse:
1. Bank Auto Auctions are CHAOS!!! And unless you know what you are doing you can pay alot more than you should.
2. The art of bidding. It is not as easy as yelling out a number, not only do you have the professional reputable dealers there, you have the bottom of the ponds scum wholesalers and note lot owners bidding and let me tell you, as long as I have been in the business, I would be nervous as all heck bid at an auction. You have people moving one eye to the left, and they are bidding and you dont even know it.
3. Auction fees and Transportation fees. nuff said.
4. Cost of repairs. Unless you know someone at at a Hyundai store, A PDR guy (paintless dent repair) expect to pay full retail for all repairs.
5. My personal experience with repos with clients and friends, those cars are ragged out. If they cant afford to pay the note they cant afford to do the maitnence.
There are better ways to save a buck than go to an auction.
:P just my two cents
In other words, I would pay $1500-$2000 plus my trade, using the example where the trade difference is $500.
Obviously someone that takes his car in for a minor dent isn't expecting his Carfax to show that his car was at a "Collision Repair Facility." So how can he be sure that it doesn't?
Is it the amount of damage done (either in $$$ or otherwise)?
I think the Accident Indicator depends on whether the accident is reported or not, so how does it work for minor repairs?
Obviously someone that takes his car in for a minor dent isn't expecting his Carfax to show that his car was at a "Collision Repair Facility." So how can he be sure that it doesn't?
Is it the amount of damage done (either in $$$ or otherwise)?
I think the Accident Indicator depends on whether the accident is reported or not, so how does it work for minor repairs?
It is not the body shop that reposrts to Carfax, but the insurance company. So, if you fix the car on your own dime, nothing gets reported.
Terry
I am not a rat.
This is more of a question for Real-World Trade-In values. We'd need the specs on eacah car and then we can go from there.
I'm a late 20s single women seeking help with a small sedan purchase this week in suburban DC. This is my 1st real car buying experience, so any advice appreciated!
#1. Any significant reasons to buy a Civic LX over a Corolla LE? I was a happy Honda owner until I sold my 90 Accord this past week, but the Corolla's appear to be a bit less expensive; and I'm more concerned with reliability and value over style.
#2. New or used? I had planned on buying an 04 or 05, but I've gathered from previous posts that several of you in the know recommend new Hondas and Toyotas over those just a few years old. Agreed? If so, how much more can I expect to pay? I'm certainly far from wealthy, but can manage about a $200 mo. payment w/ $8-9K down.
Many thanks!
$200/mo buys $10,000 over 5 years, maybe a touch more with low interest. A Corolla LE shouldn't be much more than $15, I'm guessing. A Civic LX will come in at $17,xxx + tax, so you're gonna pretty much need it all.
You cannot go wrong with either the Civic or the Corolla; the Civic is the better car, the Corolla is likely going to be more reliable. The Civic will be more fun, and may retain its value better.
Drive both, then decide. Also the Mazda3 while you're at it, and spare the Matrix/Vibe a glance. All good cars.
And yes, these hold their values so well that new is the way to go, unless you get lucky or you *really* know about used cars.
Good luck,
-Mathias
Gotcha .. you'd rather be an accomplice in a felony charge or a 1st degree misdemeanor ....
Terry.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
1) Reliable enough to last for one year with little risk of major repairs.
2) Low depreciation over the year so that I can get back as much of my original purchase price as possible.
3) Other true costs of owning the vehicle for the year are reasonably low.
4) Ideally around $3K, but can go higher if necessary for the reliablility I desire or if going higher will get me a car that I can sell closer to my buying price on the back end.
Basically, I want a car that will last me the year and have the lowest net cost to me in the end. My financial position should be much different a year from now, which will allow me to purchase a vehicle more to my wife's liking. In the meantime, we need a second car to get me to and from work (about 35 miles round trip). An older Accord or Camry seems to be the obvious choice to fit my needs, but perhaps that's too obvious. Do any of you have suggestions as to my best options to achieve the goals I desire?
Try something less popular, and swim a little out of the mainstream. Something with manual tranny, roll up yourself windows, etc.
Maybe a late-90s Sentra, mazda protege, even an Escort. Just find one that hasn't been abused, and has reasonable miles. If it is the plain jane model, it will be cheaper to buy, and less to go wrong.
The other option is a domestic (Buick, Taurus, etc.). In this case, try to find an "old folks" car that hasn't been run into the ground. If you get the right one, it might not be exciting, but it can be reliable.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
FOr Ex. (and I'm not recommending any particular brand), there was recently a Jetta lease offer of something like $199/mo, with 0 due at signing (other than DMV fees). So, that basically spreads your 3K budget out over 12 months.
At the end, if you were just going to unload the beater and dump the $$ into a new car, you will pretty much be in the same place (that is, no money and a newish car with a payment).
At least with the lease, your maintenance and repair costs will be nada. Just gas and go.
But, depending on where you live, insurance costs can run the cost up, so that has to get factored in. But will they be less than the depreciation hit (possible), or the possibility that your 3K car spits up a tranny 6 months down the road?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
If you get a clean, modest miles Sentra, it isn't goin to depreciate much in a year. But, you are playing with fire with a high mile (150K+ anything).
As to manuals, servew 2 purposes. Cheaper to buy (and run), also one less major component (the AT) to fail. It ain't cheap to replace an AT on a Honda either!
for selling them, my experience is that the low price market if better for selling manuals, especially on smaller cars (civic/sentra/Protege). And if you get less for it, you also pay less.
Actually, add the Protege to the list of cars to consider.
In any case, buying a 2-3K car is always going to be a crapshoot, especially trying to project value 1+ years down the road. And no, I don't think a 2.5K Sentra is going to depreciate that much, if is is sound to start with.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
"Usually" you can sell a $2,000/$3,000 vehicle with a stick almost kinda easily (depending on where someone lives) but that's only because the days of the $500 vehicle are long gone .. it's the $9,000/$25,000+ vehicles that can be extremely tuff ...
Terry.
As to a manual, unfortunately I never learned. I appreciate your other suggestions though. I don't need all the bells and whistles. I just want something that will get me to and from work, won't have a high true cost for the year and will more than likely make it through the year without a major problem.
For instance. What if you test drove a car on city streets, looked it over as best as you could, and after you bought the car, once you got on the express way, you found out that the car starts to shake and stalls out on you any time you're in 5th gear going over 60mph...
Would there be any way to either return the car to the original seller or at least sue him/her for the cost to repair the vehicle since it was a problem they must have been aware of? And since it would be improbable a prolbem like that never occured with the old owners and just so happened to start 5 minutes after you "bought" the car?
Thats why it's always a good idea to have a top tech in the wings before you do your final purchase ... unless you can prove you bought it from the Menendez Brothers, you got nothin' .... sounds like you paid for your own education - and that's not a bad thing.
Terry.
This is exactly why a used car inspection by a QUALIFIED shop is so important.
1995 Civic 124K miles
1992 Accord 80K miles (the miles seem too good to be true for the price.)
1993 Accord EX 186K miles
1995 Camry LE 189K miles
1999 Saturn SL1 125K miles
1995 Saturn SL2 121K miles ($1500 cheaper than 1999 SL1)
1999 Taurus SE 129K miles
1997 Dodge Intrepid 130K miles
1998 Dodge Neon 136K miles
1995 Grand Marquis 140K miles
1995 Civic 124K miles
1992 Accord 80K miles (the miles seem too good to be true
Maybes:
1999 Saturn SL1 125K miles
1995 Saturn SL2 121K miles ($1500 cheaper than 1999
big maybe:
1995 Grand Marquis 140K miles
Terry.