Nissan Titan vs. Dodge Ram Hemi

kg11

How about towing 9000lb?

keanec

It is posted over at titantalk.com somewhere. The Titan did out dyno the Hemi by quite a bit in both horsepower & Torque. BUT and that is a big BUT, this dyno was done at the rear wheels. There could be two reasons the Titan dyno'd better 1. The engine is just more powerful and the Hemi's numbers are overstated (possible) or the drivetrain of the Titan is much better than the drive train of the Dodge and the Dodge loses too much power that way. So it is possible the Hemi is more powerful in the HP department and that is why Wards picked it (I think it was mentioned somewhere that Wards really didn't have too much time with the endurance because it wasn't even out yet and they got a pre-production model), but that doesn't say too much for the rest of the Dodge truck engineering.

The fact is on the road the Titan does have more power than the Dodge Hemi both in Torque and in HP and it shows in all the tests and reviews that the Nissan Titan takes the #1 position for power.

That being said, the Dodge is a very good truck and it is possible it takes the #1 position in other areas besides power. Anybody who buys/bought a Dodge w/Hemi, probably got excellent value for the money. I didn't buy one because unfortuntely, they have a bad (probably undeserved) reputation in my area for quality and resale. I know the Titan doesn't even have a rep yet, but I am willing to take a chance because i owned a Fronty and it had great reliablity and quality and resale.

I also heard horror stories about the gas mileage from buddies who own them. I know the Titan might not be better, but I don't know it won't.

Just my 2 cents

keanec

I know you sell F-150's too, but I am surprised you were comparing it to the Hemi. You know that the F-150 is underpowered even with the bigger engine. Almost every reviewer has commented about this. The general reason seems to be the weight.

bowke28

the f150 doesnt accelerate like the dodge or nissan, but ford went after the utility aspects. the torque is strong, even with a 4 speed auto. you wont do any drag racing, but it will do everything you want it to do and more.

the titan will do it all too...just with a little snap in the throttle!

dustyk

>>>1. ...or the drivetrain of the Titan is much better than the drive train of the Dodge and the Dodge loses too much power that way.<<<

Better? In order to reduce power loses in drive train components you must reduce component loads, both from friction and inertia. In practical terms that means to reduce inertia loads, lighter components. To reduce friction, smaller bearing contact area. Is that better? Maybe not if you want consistent work being done in the upper range of capacity.

Even Nissan can't violate the laws of physics.

dustyk

>>> it is, the titan has more torque than the hemi...at lower RPMs. also, the ford achieves its max torque at much lower RPMs than the hemi<<<

The Hemi produces 300 lbs. ft. of torque at idle speed. Show me your torque/rpm specs.

>>>...which is why it STILL has a higher towing/payload rating than the dodge<<<

Towing and payload ratings have much more to do with brakes and suspension than engine power, so the conclusion is baseless. Besides, the National Highway and Traffic Administration is starting to look at the claims of LD truck manufacturers as to towing and payload ratings. We may be finding out that maybe the manufacturers are pushing for numbers. Now wouldn't that deflate a few salespersons egos.

keanec

Well, considering I know three people with the Dodge, and two of them have blown tranny's under 75000kms, I guess maybe Dodge doesn't know the law of Physics??? Just stating a point. I only said it could be that; nowhere have I seen both the Hemi and Endurance dyno'd at the flywheel. It is entirely possible that the drive trian loss is the same in both vehicles, but the Hemi #'s are overstated.

I was under the impression from both experience (friends with big tranny bills) and reading that Dodge might have some minor (maybe major) tranny problems.

The biggest problem, Dusty, is we just don't know beause the Titan hasn't been out long enough to know it's endurance.

dustyk

Keanec, if a transmission "blows" on a truck, does that mean it's the fault of the design?

At the moment, there are only assumptions regarding the Titan's drive train design. For that matter, quality, too.

bowke28

the titan achieves 81% (307) at idle, and 90% (341) at 2450 rpm. the ford is similar:

82% at idle (299) and 92% (336) at 2200 rpm.

the question, mr. hemi master, is what rpm does the dodge reach 335 lb. ft.???

dustyk

>>>HEMI is a marketing tool for Dodge as a desperate act for less superior truck then Ford or Chevy in which Dodge is competing against..Dodge is just plain junk to many problems with to many vehicles<<<

(sigh) Oh, yeah. The obviousness of the Dodge hatred campaign is getting so boring. By now it is clear that we have an unhappy ex-Dakota owner in here with an axe to grind at every post. Expect nothing more than the "Dodge is junk" bias with heaps of anecdota evidence.

The implicit message is of course all of us Dodge owners are intellectually inept, since, by the virtue of the machinery we own and the dentigerous proclamations made by the self-serving... we are the unwashed. Especially if it is not a Nissan we own.

It seems that in the last few months the incipient Titan zealots has managed to out-do Chevy owners at ego, brag and self-assigned superiority. Hold on Nissan! Your friends in here are going to do the same for you as Chevy owners have done for GM!

One saving grace. At least the Chevy guys will always be able to get parts.

dustyk

>>>the question, mr. hemi master, is what rpm does the dodge reach 335 lb. ft.???<<<

I don't know. You tell me.

345 CID Hemi (RAM 1500 only) = 301 HP @ 900 rpm, 345 HP @ 5400 rpm; 375 lbs. ft. @ 4200 rpm

dustyk

>>>Can you guys post some links for these dyno numbers? I have been unable to find independent dyno figures for the Titan.<<<

Manufacturers usually have independent laboratories certify the horsepower and torque specifications for engines on a engine dyno. Manufacturers are not compelled, however, to publish that data and they may elect to use their own dyno readings for published specifications.

Manufacturers have not, at least in my memory or knowledge, relied on or published chassis dyno specifications. The reasons is pretty simple. First, the chassis dyno is not anymore of a realiable indicator of real service power as the engine dyno. Second, there are enough manufacturing tolerances and variables to render the chassis dyno a inaccurate way of forecasting real power.

Your inquiry, however, was as good one. There is really no standard for chassis dyno setups, although 40 BHP load use to be the standard. They are only relative to each other. A more accurate method would be comparative measurements ON THE SAME DYNO WITH THE SAME SETUP.

dustyk

By the way, the 345 CID Hemi is not a 360 motor with hemispherical heads, has was stated earlier.

It is a completely new design. The 360 LA engine has no component relation to the 345 Hemi.

keanec

"Keanec, if a transmission "blows" on a truck, does that mean it's the fault of the design?

At the moment, there are only assumptions regarding the Titan's drive train design. For that matter, quality, too"

Hey big guy, I agree with the 2nd part as I had said earlier. I am not sure with the first one, though. I guess it could be any number of factors from design, to inferior parts, to assembly, to driver error. But if it is driver error, then the Dodge drivers I know are bad drivers :-).

But for what it is worth, I would buy the Dodge before the Ford or GM! I am not sure about the new Tundra DC, though. I would have to put both them through a good test drive and evaluation.

I have to say, there are a lot of new Rams driving around my city - so a lot of people like them. I hope they kick the F-150 because I just don't get it with that truck (I can't stand the exterior look of the airplane sized windows and high bed and doors) and I (contrary to most people) did not like the interior at all, both in comfort and looks.

Which brings me to another reason for my Titan purchase, I bought the first one in my city (another guy bought a KC last week and actually got it - my CC is still on order) and I like the fact that there are very few around. I like to be a bit different as long as I like what I am getting - and I do!

cheers

dustyk

My point in asking the question was to establish how you feel about transmission failures. I get the impression that when you hear of transmission failures on a Dodge it's the result of something inherent. At 75,000 kms? Then why doesn't it follow that a transmission failure on anything else must be for the same reason?

The truth is that Dodge automatic transmission failure rates are no better or worse than the competition. In addition, all Dodge transmissions are not the same. The Hemi only comes with the 545RFE in the RAM 1500. This transmission is as solid as any on the market today. Much better than the 4LE60 or 4LE80s found on GMs, yet you don't ever seem to hear the same thing said about them.

kg11

GM's trans reputation almost kept me from buying my GMC but then they offered the Allison in the 2500HD so I bought one. The Allison was replaced TWICE in the first 6 months and 12k mi. BUT, one thing the "Toyata is GOD" crowd overlooks when they cite "Toyota Quality" is you buy a tundra to carry your mountian bikes or bedding plants.Those of us who buy "The Big Three" use them at or over thier published capacity. At least Titan looks like a full sized truck in the initial reports. Let's see what she'll do

keanec

I was beat to the punch...Yes you do hear about the failures of the GM tranny. I just don't ever mention GM because ???? Actually, the F-150 is the only one I haven't personally heard of failures in - that in itself is surprising given the windstar & taurus crap tranny's! One poor buddy had a 95 Windstar that he blew the tranny twice in before he almost gave it away. He is also one of the unlucky guys who then got a 2001 Dodge Ram and blew the tranny at 50km's (30000miles) with no trailer hitch and mostly carrying bread. His lease is up in April on the Ram and the Buy Back is 5000 grand over the trucks worth. Lucky for him he can hand back the keys.

I did overlook one very big thing - my friends don't have the Hemi!! So your point about the Hemi trans is a very good one. Much like Ford made the worlds worst tranny in the windstar; then a pretty good one in the F-150 - Dodge could do the same with different Ram tranny's.

Aggie - Good point about the Tundra. Your right, we will see about the Titan.

lizardking1

I don't knock Dodge just from my own experiences but others I have met. Dodge will always be behind Ford and Chevy in quality unless they show some real initiative. Dodge can pull ahead strong if they concentrate on quality instead of looks and hipe. Where I'm originally from farmers tend to be brand loyal to Ford and Chevy because they our proven in the field. I remember looking at a 2004 Dodge 1500 4x4 with 20" wheels. Come to find out they have plastic covers on the wheels which looks like there polished. You can get them without the covers but come on Dodge that's a joke. For most truck owners they use there trucks to haul grocery home and occasionally items from Home Depot. Trucks are just not used anymore like they where. So yes your truck will probably run for a long time with no problems. As for Nissan give THEM a chance with the Titan and let's see what the outcome is. Nissan is entering a tough market and it seems there doing a good job.

dustyk

>>>Come to find out they have plastic covers on the wheels which looks like there polished. You can get them without the covers but come on Dodge that's a joke.<<<

I now have to question where you've been for the last ten years. The poly-coated wheel has been around for at least that long and EVERYBODY does it. My wife's Avalon has them and so do Lexus models and Nissan Maximas. My daughter's '02 Altima has them as well. I'd be carefull. You might find that the Titan has them too.

At least Dodge offers it either way if you don't like them if it's true. I'm not aware of any other version that does it both ways.

By the way, Dodge uses a different process which has proven to be very robust. My wife's Avalon wheels looked like crap after two years. So far my Dakota wheels look like I polish them at every car wash, but I don't.

>>>Dodge will always be behind Ford and Chevy in quality unless they show some real initiative.<<<

Well, this is a highly modified version of a post previous post where you flatly stated that "Dodge is junk and always will be...." Let me tell you that in the last four years or better my company's Ford fleet has gone downhill with respect to reliability and cost of ownership. Our Dodges, especially the newer ones have been solid with very few problems. As to Dodge being behind in quality to Ford, that's too close to call. But as to GM, absolutely pure unadulterated BS. We converted from 18 years of being 100% GM LD PUs to Ford in '97 because GMs were pitiful. We cut repair cost better than 60% by going to Ford.

So don't try to make me believe that Dodge is worse than GM when it comes trucks. That comment just validates both your opinion of Dodge and mine of your biased opinion.

durocab

problems with sensors. But, I am glad that you bought the Titan and hope that more do so. One of the reasons that Dodges are so expensive is that more and more people are buying them. Maybe, if the Titan can give it some real competition in the market, then I can get that HD 4X4

Come to Texas where Dodge's are free!

bowke28

he wasnt talking about the "coated" alloys...he was talking about the cheap chrome-looking plastic hub caps. no, nissan doesnt do that on the titan OR the maxima...and lexus sure as heck doesnt do it either...

as a matter of fact, other than autozone's supoplier, i think dodge is the only one.

dustyk

If your talking about the cap that covers the lug nuts or the spindle.....WoW! Big freakin deal!!!! That only affects THREE of the fifteen different wheels offed on the RAM series. As to Lexus not doing it, BS. Our Avalon has them, too. So does my daughter's Altima.

What Dodge does not offer are "hub caps" of any type on the 1500 series. Even the base RAM offers a styled, steel wheel...yes, with a little plastic cap that covers the spindle. Whoopie!

Boy, you guys are scraping the barrel trying to denegrate a Dodge. Talk about hypocrisy, man, people criticize the Titan for cheap looking interior or a body that looks like an art decco refrigerator, and you get all miffed.

As far as "plastic" goes, I wish Toyota would have made the wheels of our junk Avalon out of plastic. They sure couldn't have looked any worse after four-and-half years!

bowke28

ummm...the avalon is not a lexus...and the altima is not a maxima. read my post again. (#249 if you cant find it)

second, the ram DOES offer chrome imitation hub caps. they were on a ram we just traded for...on a titan.

aggiemph1

Your posts make less and less sense to me, but please feel free to keep posting.

My own feelings are that you are just as wrong to refer to Asian car manufacturer's as 'HatcheeScratchee' as someone is to refer to domestics as 'junk'. Further, I have no idea what 'Chinese Chrome' is, but it appears to me to be a thinly veiled racial remark. I hope that is not the case.

And I don't believe the Dodge Ram vs. Nissan Titan topic is dead, simply because they fill different niches in the market and will compete for some overlapping customers.

Regards,

AGGIE

PF_Flyer

Let's back away fromthe personal stuff and get back to the topics please...

Thanks for your cooperation and participation!



Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!

Whether you own a Mazda, would like to own a Mazda, or just like going ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM... be sure to stop by and meet and greet your fellow Town Hall users!

/direct/view/.ef1b553

PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

dustyk

>>>ummm...the avalon is not a lexus...and the altima is not a maxima. read my post again. (#249 if you cant find it)<<<<

True. But is the Avalon or the Altima less a car because they have plastic parts on their wheels?? As to plastic on the wheels, the '99 Lexus did have them and I remember taking the wheels off of a Maxima that had them, but I don't remember the year.

>>>second, the ram DOES offer chrome imitation hub caps. they were on a ram we just traded for...on a titan.<<<

The 2002, 2003, and 2004 Dodge sales information DOES NOT show a "hub cap" for any RAM 1500 series wheel. So maybe Dodge made some for a fleet or utility truck, but maybe they didn't. Since you can buy signature stuff at Autozone, maybe that's exactly where it came from.

dustyk

It's extremely difficult to read a persons mind when reading something they wrote. I read his words differently. I think he's refering to the quality of their product and not discriminatory or racially based.

If you go back a ways in this thread I think the same sentiment was stated about "Americans," even though that's who assembles all those "beautiful" Titans.

iowabigguy

"Let's back away fromthe personal stuff and get back to the topics please..."

OK, this is Ram vs. Titan. Why are you posting Mazda stuff???? <grin>

obyone

whenever and wherever you can due to a general lack of interest. lmao

bowke28

"The 2002, 2003, and 2004 Dodge sales information DOES NOT show a "hub cap" for any RAM 1500 series wheel."

i guess even dodge knows how cheap they look...i wouldnt advertis eit either. ;-)

but yes, they are available. WITH the hemi, and even in a crew cab.

iowabigguy

I guess you will have to define hub cab. I think you and bowke28 are talking 2 different things, kinds like Nissan and Dodge. To me a hub cap is a full wheel cover but the way bowke28 is describing it is the plastic cover Dodge uses to cover the lug nuts on the clad and aluminum wheels.
I had a 95 Nissan pickup with aluminum wheels that had the same type of plastic cover that had a satin "chrome" finish that inserted into the wheel to cover the lug nuts.
Keep in mind he is a saleman who is pushing his product. Like a politician when the mouth moves it does not necessarily issue facts but rather what he wants you to hear.
As an aside I have the "chrome clad" 20" wheels on my Ram. I would have preferred the polished aluminum wheels when I purchased my Ram but I bought off of the lot and that is what the floor manager saw as selling best. In retrospect I'm glad I got these wheels. They always look bright and shiny, like they were just waxed. I suppose if the finish were to get damaged it would be an issue but it would also be an issue on a polished wheel as well.

PF_Flyer

Even though it's the Mazda chat (and Subaru on Thursday nights) everyone is welcome, even Pickups board folks! The topic at the chats generally starts on and revolves around Mazda, but rambles all over the place. With all the snow we've had here in the east we always get into 4WD/road conditions chat as well.

Stop in if you can. Heck if we could get enough interest we might even be able to create a Pickups Chat!

PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

bowke28

first, this has nothing to do with my product...this is a reason that i dont like the dodge...never have. thats what this board is about, right? the "chrome clad" thing is dodge's spin on "hub caps". they ARE plastic, right? and PLEASE dont try saying they are "petroleum composite".

iowabigguy

Yes, They are plastic. YES PLASTIC. The same thing almost the whole inside of the Titan is made of----- Plastic. And to some people it looks cheap, both the Ram clad wheel and the Titan interior. However with the Ram you as a buyer have the choice of buying a different optional wheel that is not plastic clad.
That option is not available with the cheap plastic Nissan interior, just like the one in the Altima. World class cars and trucks with cheap plastic interiors. One of the reasons I did not buy another Altima but the main one was the dealer would not order me a stripped v6 Altima. Based on our experience with our Dodge trucks (which replaces a Ford which replaced the Nissan) we bought a 2002 DODGE NEON R/T. I can hear it now, a NEON!!! However it has been a perfect car with only oil changes and required warranty maintenance for almost 30,000 miles.

jcmdie

How did this discussion get stuck on the fact that Dodge offers as one of many available wheels, a plastic clad wheel? If they ONLY offered that wheel, I could see a few comments.

dustyk

The little cap that covers the hub on the FORD F150 HERITAGE CLASSIC is PLASTIC!!!

That's one reason why I never liked the Ford....never will. I knew there was a reason a lot of people consider them to be junk.

Yeah, Iowa, I hear you. It's amazing how we have learned so much about the product prowess of a Ford-Nissan salesperson. Let's see, first it was the RAM had the same frame from half-ton to full-ton. Wrong. It was the the RAM didn't have drive-by wire. Wrong. RAM didn't have a 5-speed auto (actually, a 6-speed). Wrong. The 5.4 Ford had more torque than the Hemi. Wrong. The Hemi was only "limited availability" and the base RAM was $30K. Wrong. It was........(sigh) never mind.

Well, at least I know now what defines the real "quality" of any car or truck. It's whether they have any plastic anywhere on the wheels.

Give us your retired soup cans and old MacDonald's Happly Meal action figures and we'll make Titans out of them (but we promise not to use any plastic on the wheels!).

Titan. Such a joke!

bowke28

show me, my friend...

aggiemph1

I said, 'I hope that is not the case.' My hope was realized....lucky me

On another topic, does anybody else hate how the car rag's only test fully loaded, top of the line models in the comparison tests? I was reading Car and Driver's comparison of crew cab p/u's and wishing they would test the base models all the way around. I think that the features included in the base price of a vehicle is the best way to see how much value it offers. So, how does the SL Ram QC compare with a Titan XE? and how much value do you think each offers?

dustyk

Show you? You mean you don't know?

545RFE gear ratios:

1st gear = 3.00:1
2nd gear = 1.67:1 (1)
2nd gear = 1.50:1 (2)
3rd gear = 1.00:1
4th gear = 0.75:1
5th gear = 0.67:1
rev gear = 3.00:1

dustyk

We have a company here in the Rochester, NY, area that specializes in refinishing wheels. They re-do the poly coating on factory versions, but they offer an upgrade with a "super tough" material. Our Avalon has coated aluminum wheels that are badly corroded. Two of them are gone beyond reconditioning. They are $410 a piece. Not a chance, but the only problem is -- like our Bonneville -- the corrosion will eventually migrate to the tire seal area and they won't hold air.

Anyway, I asked what the "super tough" coating was and the guy told me, "...the same stuff Chrysler uses..." which is a highly clear PVC coating. Like yours, mine looks brand new when washed. No cracks, corrosion or imperfections yet.

Regards,
Dusty

aggiemph1

I am not just talking about stripped, I mean it is it too much to ask to compare the SL Dodge w/ a few options w/ a Titan XE and a F150 XL? I know that it is in the manufacturers best interest to provide a loaded vehicle for testing in order to create a good first impression on the automotive press, BUT comparing 5 $40,000 trucks doesn't do me a whole lot of good, when my budget is a little more than half that.

twinbladesz

There arent too many people around who buy a stripped down model anymore. If they did there wouldnt be all these top model trucks offered. Like any other segment trucks are going from the
ho-hum no frills work it hard models that used to be the norm to the daily gotta have something to keep those kids quiet family mover that have things like XM and Sirius, DVD players, and Navigation systems. I think most people who buy a vehicle usually go for middle to top model with a few going for a no frills models.

Although with that C/D comparo the Titan did win that one. But still a new model that needs to be seen on how well it holds up in the long run.

bowke28

in that case, the titan has a 6-speed auto as well. but lets do a little learnin' here...the reverse gear is not included in the #. the # of speeds refers to the # of forward speeds. i have a funny feeling, though, that you are simply trying to be a smart-aleck.

dustyk

Now I realize this might be a little difficult, so let me present the SIX forward gear ratios of the 545RFE Dodge automatic transmission, sans reverse:

1st gear = 3.00:1
2nd gear = 1.67:1 (1)
2nd gear = 1.50:1 (2)
3rd gear = 1.00:1
4th gear = 0.75:1
5th gear = 0.67:1

The subliminal American education issues aside, there are SIX forward gear ratios in the Dodge 545RFE.

Six. There are SIX, yes, SIX, forward gear ratios in the Dodge 545RFE. To repeat, they are:

1st gear = 3.00:1
2nd gear = 1.67:1 (1)
2nd gear = 1.50:1 (2)
3rd gear = 1.00:1
4th gear = 0.75:1
5th gear = 0.67:1

Now let me guess, I think I'm going to hear that the Titan (or Ford) must have seven if the Dodge has six!

I guess the Titan can't stand on it's own merits without trying to denegrate the competition.

Are all car salespeople this insecure?

(Sorry. The question was rhetorical)

lizardking1

If you Dodge owners want a real truck then stick with Ford or Chevy. At least these trucks have proven themselves in the field. JUST KIDDING!! Know one can bash the Titan until we see some real data which will take some time..It's a NEW design that was just released so we don't have anything to offer other then our own experiences this far. It's nice to see Nissan,Toyota and Honda entering the full size truck market which will benefit us all. I would love to see FORD/CHEVY quality in Dodge but I just don't see it now. Plastic seems to be a huge issue but look inside these trucks (all) yes plastic. Don't get me wrong I do like the looks of the RAM, now the Durango is real real ugly. Dodge Ram I believe is one of the sharpest looking trucks out there.

dustyk

>>> I would love to see FORD/CHEVY quality in Dodge but I just don't see it now.<<<

Getting Ford & Chevy quality in a Dodge is a thing I hope never happens.

ltz2003

I an thinking of getting a dodge hemi you can get a good or bad in any vehicle. I have been reading here for a while and i must say a NISSAN is still a NISSAN if you get my drift. Titan or not.

dogface5

"NISSAN is still a NISSAN" That's why I would buy the Titan over the Ram, not the other way around.

ltz2003

I have no use for a nissan. I just think you people are down on the dodge without just cause. Nissan, ford, chevy, dodge CMC, all have good & bad points. I had a bad 99 GMC so this summer i am going to try a dodge or i hate to say it ford. Dodge would be better for me. I will see the titan at the cleveland auto show the last of feb but t dont like what i have seen so far. Dodge has to be the better of the two. Its true what i read here titan is not truly tested yet.

bowke28

why wait for the auto show? dealers have plenty to look at.