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Toyota Highlander Hybrid

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    mevandemevande Member Posts: 190
    Hello,
    The Toyota rep to the dealer I go to shared (reluctantly:)
    All Highlanders will go though a complete refresh for the 2007 model year with the vehicles going on sale fall of 2006. This link is the concept car they are using to move forward (the toyota rep said it would not be this "radical")

    http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/ftsx.html

    MikeV :)
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    mevandemevande Member Posts: 190
    This is the link, which shows the 2007 Highlander (concept should be close to "final" vehicle according to the Toyota rep who reluctantly acknowledged this info:). He is also an "acquaintance" and had to fess up :)

    There are allot of people on this board who are veteran Totota owners, hence my question will I be in the same game (waiting) when the 2007 comes out a year from this fall. Will there be throngs on Highlander owners and new prospects waiting to "pounce" on this vehicle upon availability and creating a new type of shortage? Thank for any advice in advance. !

    Mike V.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Looks like they hired a designer from Mercedes. Very similar to the new "R" Class Grand Sport. Must be the future look for SUV/CUVs.

    http://www.germancarfans.com/photos.cfm/photoid/3020107.004/pageview/photo/photo/1002/page- - /1/size/regular/mercedes/1.html
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    mike4698mike4698 Member Posts: 18
    Thanks for the tip and keep us inform.

    Mike
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    landdriverlanddriver Member Posts: 607
    ZZZZZT
    CHARGED
    ZAPPED
    GAS ZAPR
    GAS ELCT
    CURRENT
    650 VOLT

    GASSED
    30MPG
    AMPED
    ELECSUV
    SIPSGAS

    I vote for "30MPG" -- nothing like a hard number to make a statement. (Runner-up would be "CHARGED.")
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    ulevulev Member Posts: 57
    I just placed my request to DMV for

    SUV LEV :shades:

    Next to that I like 'SIPSGAS'
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    bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,472
    Thanks, Ken. I never thought of myself as a SUV person, but my wife and I were on a trip and were given a Highlander (not a hybrid, of course) because they were out of the type that we reserved. I have to say that I liked that sucker a lot. And the thought of all that and great mileage seems pretty sweet.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

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    bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,472
    I might vote for '650 VOLT'. Should help keep people off your back bumper.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

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    chgohhltdchgohhltd Member Posts: 8
    Yes, $100 under MSRP is what we were told (sorry for the confusion).

    I have a similar situation (can't pick it up until next week) and it's killing me! Especially since the '97 Explorer we're trading in has started to have problems with the A/C and it's around 95 here today. I have to haul some stuff to our storage locker and am putting it off until things cool down a bit.

    You're right, the dealer is C**Max. We would not buy from anyone else now.
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    chgohhltdchgohhltd Member Posts: 8
    Since I haven't taken delivery yet, the ONLY thing I have been disappointed about is the small list of color choices for the HH. White, black, silver, light gold, grayish blue. YAWN. We settled for the bluestone metallic only after driving 50 miles to the dealer to actually look at one in that color. (Toyota's web site was not any help at all...it made it look like a VERY light blue, almost silver.) The actual color was much darker, and more like what we wanted.

    I would have liked to see them offer it in Oasis Green Pearl or even a darker green like I have seen on some older-model Highlanders. After all, this is supposed to be a "green" vehicle, right?

    Ironically I never liked green on a car until recently, and now it is the color I would prefer. Our Prius is black, only because it was the only one available at the time we bought it. It's grown on me, but it gets awfully hot in the summer and I probably wouldn't choose another black car.
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    nsxwesnsxwes Member Posts: 84
    My wife and I just returned from US Hwy 1 on the Northern California coast. We drove 257 miles and averaged 30.7 mpg. We have a 4WDi Limited. I have to say that this exceeds my expectations.

    Wes
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    cknoxcknox Member Posts: 8
    I put down a $500 deposit awhile back for a dealer who said they had 4 HH coming in soon enough. The key was that we were going to see what was coming in and then if one of them didn't match what I wanted, then we would order a specific vehicle. I wanted the limited 4WD (no NAV), so it seemed like it shouldn't be a problem. The first two had NAV, and were the wrong color anyway. Then, my dealer called me and told me they had been allocated a white 4WD limited w/o NAV, but that it hadn't been actually made yet, so she should be able to change the color. Two weeks later, I finally find out that she was unable to get the color changed (did she even try?), and that to "order" what I wanted would take 9-10 months. She says she's located what I want at other dealerships, but that no one will trade with her for the white one.

    I get the feeling I'm being jerked around, although to what benefit on their part I have no idea.

    The only good thing I can see so far is that originally we wanted a silver one, due to the rather poor representation of the bluestone color on the toyota website. We got to testdrive a bluestone base model last weekend, and loved the color, so now that's what we want.

    So, now I'm going to start looking elsewhere. If anyone has a line on a bluestone limited 4WD with no NAV, feel free to reply via email to this post (dealers, are you out there?). I can use my frequent flyer miles to come get it, but the closer to Wisconsin the better.
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    toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    cknox,

    first, dealers and representatives of such are not allowed to solicit on the boards. However, it would make it much easier for those with information for you to do so if you have a contact email in your profile. I'm sorry about the difficulties you're having, but I can imagine that no-one is going to dealer-trade these at this point. As for "ordering" these, Toyota's just trying to get enough built and out to the dealers so that wait times are reduced. This may mean that if you don't have a second or third color choice or some flexibility on equipment that it may take some time if Toyota doesn't happen to be building the vehicles in that configuration. The Dealer is helpless in this aspect of the process as they are at the whim of Toyota for what they allocate to them.

    It will certainly not hurt, however to make some contacts elsewhere to see if they may have something that suits your needs better sooner.

    Hope this helps.

    Ken
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    nimhrodnimhrod Member Posts: 49
    What happens if an American purchases his car in Canada? Would I be eligible for the rebate? If they abated the luxury tax, would I have to pay any sort of sales taxes when I brought it back to VA?

    Or has some bureaucrat already thought of this long ago and they end up getting you once you title it in VA?
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    toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    Keep in mind that the Tax rates in Canada are MUCH higher. GST/PST can total over 15%. Add that to the luxury tax and any tarrifs you would have when you bring it over to the US and you may not be getting much if any better than locally. You also typically have to pay the sales taxes, if any, in your state of residence when you go to register it where you live. There has also been talk about manufacturers not honoring warranties for vehicles that are purchased over the border to limit this from happening. Also, resale values of Canadian vehicles in the US are often much less because of concerns of warranty validity and/or title washing.

    Just make sure to do alot of homework before choosing this route.

    Ken
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    eva202eva202 Member Posts: 1
    Anyone purchase a HHL in ATL below MSRP? I visited three dealers today and no one is budging so I just thought I check in before making the purchase.
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    greencruisergreencruiser Member Posts: 7
    Ken is right, the taxes in Canada can be pretty onerous. Even if I bought the vehicle in Alberta where there is no Provincial sales tax (that would save 7%) they'd just ding me with it if I tried to bring the vehicle back to BC. From what I've read on this forum, it also appears that the MSRP in Canada is higher than the US even with the exchange factored in (its almost $54k Cdn). All taxes in plus vehicle delivery charge the final price for the HHL is $62k Cdn in BC! If it weren't for those rebates and other breaks it would be a hard sell. Oh yeah, and for any other Canadian buyers out there, CDI auto insurance also offers a $200 discount per year on insurance for hybrids.

    Ian
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    hybridenghybrideng Member Posts: 1
    Ian,

    I'm looking to buy either a HHL or Rx400h in BC. I know about the PST rebate, but have not heard about the luxury tax reduction.

    Can you please provide details or a url to where I can find more info?

    http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/emotorcons- /emo_confused.gif
    confuse
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    tomslycktomslyck Member Posts: 70
    I put my order in for SUVHBRD. Not too creative, but it'll do for now.
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    sbell4sbell4 Member Posts: 446
    with a little effort I am confident you can get a discount on a HH. It is a great car but rather pricey, that eats into floorplan and dealers should be able to understand that if there is one in stock that you are interested in buying.
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    phillyguy27phillyguy27 Member Posts: 7
    Wondering if I can get responses from current owners of the 2006 HH. Does your HH have these features that were supposedly mentioned in various pre-release reviews but are not clearly evident in the specs posted at Toyota:

    1) Does is have tire pressure monitoring guages?
    2) Does it have a 110 volt outlet?
    3) Does it have a plug-in jack for an iPod? In the base stereo? Upgraded stereo? (Better yet, an integrated option with a display etc.....this mught be added to a future wish list I guess)

    If not, are any of these installable by third parties?

    pg
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    toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    1) yes it does have a low-tire pressure monitoring system standard on the vehicle.

    2) No, it doesn't have a 110volt outlet

    3) As far as I have heard, no it doesn't have a jack for an iPod in any of the stereo's for the HH at this time.

    110volt outlet should be able to be installed, but make sure they know what they're doing with this as it is different than a "normal" ICE car with much different wiring.

    Stereo with iPod jack, absolutely as long as you don't have the NAV system.

    Hope this helps.

    Ken
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    phoebeisisphoebeisis Member Posts: 121
    toyotaken,thanks for the clarification.What does ICE stand for?I haven't really read up on Toyota's explanation of Hybrids lately.I just have a general idea.
    I wonder why Honda went Hybrid lite??Their Accord Hybrid gets 3 mpg more in true city driving(15 vs 18 according to CR) than their V-6 .A crude guess would be with full Hybridization like Toyota-it would be~22(at least 50% better).The difference between a Corolla and a Prius is something like 20 vs 35 in true city(CR once again).There shouldn't be a huge difference between a hybrid and a "normal" in hy driving-say long trips on the interstate,so I can see why Honda would make the choice based on hy driving,but most Accords are city vehicles.I just can't see why Honda left the extra mpg on the table-Midsized SUV's get maybe 15 mpg city-real world-the HH gets at least 50% better-more like 75% on early returns.
    1)Cost-probably another $3000 to full hybrid
    2)Weight-maybe another 50-100 lbs
    3)Cost to develope-maybe too much for Honda to bear-and Honda would NEVER buy fuel efficiency technology from Toyota.
    4)Total green impact?Did they look at fuel and resources used to make a full hybrid,and decide it just wasn't"green enough" for them?
    My guess is 3-Honda just doesn't have the resources,and now Toyota has patents on the most obvious Hybrid "methods".
    I like HONDA-always have.I have owned just 2 Hondas lifetime.I've owned 8 Toyotas(all winners).I hope Honda doesn't get left behind.They missed the boat with the Acuras-marketing mistakes-and Toyota Lexus made them also-rans in the Lux brands.Thanks.Charlie PS More mpg numbers out there??
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    toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    ICE stands for Internal Combustion Engine. As for the hybrid-lite question, I think that it comes down to a few things, although we'll probably never know. BTW, the better comparison for the Prius in the Toyota line is the Camry as the Corolla is a compact car vs. the Prius and Camry being Mid-sized. So efficiency wise, it is a much more dramatic improvement in efficiency.

    1) hybrid-lite helps with highway milage to some extent rather than city as the battery works as a "booster" rather than a true propulsion source.

    2) research and production costs are minimal as the vehicle is to all intents and purposes a "normal" vehicle with the addition of a battery booster.

    3) The hybrid-lite systems are more usable only in vehicles that are low weight in general. It is much harder to get any efficiency benefits with larger platforms and Honda is basically a car-only manufacturer. The largest vehicles they have are the Odyssey and now Ridgeline which still use car-based propulsion - i.e. transverse mounted engines, unibody, etc. The full hybrid application is usable for all sizes of vehicle and will get a more dramatic impact on larger vehicles when they start implementing it. With Toyota being a major manufacturer in both Trucks as well as cars, it has a broader application.

    Great to get all of the viewpoints here!

    Ken
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    phoebeisisphoebeisis Member Posts: 121
    Ken-thanks.
    I was vaguely aware that the Prius is Accord-Camry sized inside.I just used the Corolla because to use the Camry I would have had to write(16mpg vs 35mpg)the 2cyl Camry vs the Prius,and I just couldn't bring myself to say that the Prius was more than 100% better in city mpg than the Camry.It just felt like Lying-even though it is true-according the CR-.
    The Civic Hybrid(I think the Accord does also) does use regenerative braking which "should" be the key to max efficiency.However,my thoughts on what is "should" are obviously wrong,since shutting off that gasoline motor and running on just an electric motor has to be where the Prius-Highlander get the advantage over the Accord-Civic.
    Honda is a stubborn company,so I expect they won't take my advice and go "full hybrid".NIH(not invented here) was probably invented at Honda..They stayed with 4 stroke racing motorcycles(-formula 1) waaay after everone else went to 2 strokes.
    My quick crude calculation show the $8000 difference between a 15mpg SUV and a 25mpg SUV will take 120,000 miles to make up.Assuming $2.50/gal.This is ignoring tax advantages.It also places zero value on "social responsibility" and getting the Middle East off our back-throat. 3200+ X/25-X/15 X equals miles traveled 3200 is the amount of gas you can buy for $8000.$2.50/gal is probably much too low.I should have used $3 or $3.50.Brings it down to 70000 or so miles(no calculation on that-just eyeball)
    The tax break means the break even point is closer to 100,000 miles(ignoring $$ you can make on unspent money).The $8000 is my guess on how much more an equivalent HH costs over a non H highlander.You get a much faster vehicle for your $8000.Many folks would pay the extra money just for the increased acceleration.(I might).Much faster,much more efficient-factory reliability-what's not too like?The break even with tax break and $3.50/gal gas might be as low as 50000 miles.
    Heck,sign me up!!I will probably dump the Pilot,or my Titan and get a HH.(the Pilot is a great vehicle-closer to Sequoia in room behind the 2nd seat).I would miss the Pilot,but not the 13mpg city.In about 18 months the HH will be under MSRP-just like the Prius is now(my guess,of course).I'll try to restrain myself 'till then.Thanks.Charlie
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    fizbanfizban Member Posts: 42
    Does anyone have the procedure for programming the options in the HH's theft-deterent system? :confuse:
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    tomslycktomslyck Member Posts: 70
    If my HH Limited has a low-tire pressure monitoring system, it's not listed in the owner's manual.
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    fizbanfizban Member Posts: 42
    I'm unable to find it as well, but then I don't see it listed in the e-brochure either.
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    zentropyzentropy Member Posts: 8
    I'm still waiting for my 2wd, option pkg 1 HH. (Not the limited, unlimited?? :) ) I've been on the waiting list since Feb '05. I'm in San Antonio. I talked to my salesperson yesterday. They received their first allotment (all LTDs of course) but he said the next allotment would show up in their database in about two weeks.
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    energyeconenergyecon Member Posts: 16
    I just heard from Dublin (Ca) Toyota that they were able to get me an AWD base model with option 1in about 30 days. It is on its way from Japan now. I put down a $500 deposit about 3 months ago. They agreed to msrp.

    The dealer said that the allocations were being based on prior deal sales of regular Highlanders, not on Prius sales. Berkeley Toyota, who sells a lot of Priuses has gotten just 2 HH (all loaded).

    This sounds pretty dumb on Toyota's part. Be that as it may, HH seekers might be wise to look at suburban dealers who sell a lot of regular Highlanders.

    BTW, I think it would be helpful to prospective buyers if we named dealers in discussions on this list that relate to sales.

    BTW 2: As other have pointed out, it is AWD not 4wd and continuously variable not 4 speed. So it is a "A x infinity" not a "4 x 4" :D

    Marvin
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    fizbanfizban Member Posts: 42
    I just took a look and there are anchors behind the 3rd seat. They're under the little panel where you replace the back lightbulbs.

    Now that I've got mine, I was able to check this out a little closer. I wasn't able to find any anchors down in the seat and discovered that those anchors tomslyck found are for cargo tie-down. So, there is no LATCH system for the 3rd row. Of course one can still use the standard seatbelt method.
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    ulevulev Member Posts: 57
    FYI.
    IA dealer located near the' Lake Shore' in Indiana has a
    2WD Limited, w/Nav, in Silver, UNSPOKEN FOR... allocated for delivery in 2 weeks, @ $40K MSRP
    I purchased mine there, and they seem to be 'straight-shooters'.
    Good Luck
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    carzzzcarzzz Member Posts: 282
    The Highlander is based on Camry platform, while CR-V is based on Civic platform!

    Car---behind 2nd row---behind 1st row
    CRV--33.5Cu-ft------------72Cu-ft
    HL----39.7Cu-ft-------------80.6Cu-ft

    Back to topic
    IMO, toyota did a great job for making the 1st hybrid SUV with a "V8 like" performance, however, the fuel economy is not that great (only comparable to a CRV with similar)... Since someone metion before, the SUV has such a large front area + heavy weight, the fuel economy decreases. If I am going to get a HL, definitely will not be the hybrid, because the hybrid model's fuel tank is smaller by almost 2 Gal (can travel another 40 miles) than the non-hybrid model and with the current gas price, i would wonder how many years it takes to earn back the 8k+(not including the interest) :D ?
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "The Highlander is based on Camry platform, while CR-V is based on Civic platform!

    Car---behind 2nd row---behind 1st row
    CRV--33.5Cu-ft------------72Cu-ft
    HL----39.7Cu-ft-------------80.6Cu-ft "

    Yup, it is amazing that Honda managed to make that platform into a mid size SUV. It is interior space that determines to which class a vehicle belongs. The fact that Toyota didn't package the Highlander larger is probably due to their other lineup of SUVs that are larger. I have to think this is the answer, because the other alternative is that Toyota isn't smart enough to squeeze more space out of a larger platform. It does explain the larger turning radius, however.

    I gather you didn't understand my post about the rear seats. On the CR-V, the rear seats slide forward. With those seats slid all the way, there is another 8 or 9 cubic feet of cargo space, bringing the two vehicles very close in cargo capacity. Cubic feet can be deceiving; I have never measured the square footage back there, which might have an advantage to the HH.
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    greencruisergreencruiser Member Posts: 7
    Hybrideng,

    Just saw your message, I've been out of town for a couple days. The Luxury tax break is actually thanks to the Provincial Government, not the Feds as I originally posted. The information is in Bulletin SST 087 on the following website:

    http://www.rev.gov.bc.ca/budget/budget.htm

    I'd advise anyone buying in BC to take a copy of this with them when they purchase. Our dealer had no idea about the luxury tax break on this vehicle and I had to educate them to get the $1600 removed from the invoice. I suspect there are other dealers out there who also don't know.

    Ian
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    waltrdewaltrde Member Posts: 26
    Where did this $8000 price premium come from? I've seen it mentioned several times now and it's making me crazy. When comparing comparably equipped FWD Limited Highlanders on Toyota's web site, I only found a $2500 premium. The differential grows once you factor in discounts and incentives available on the conventional Highlander.

    I believe that there are quite a few dealers out there that will be negotiating to under MSRP on the HH way sooner than 18 months from now. The trick to find a 2004 Prius on the lot was to check out the rual dealerships, this should be even more effective with the HH. This past weekend, the dealer in Dover, DE had two fully loaded 4WD Limiteds on the lot with a $3000 markup. I got one at MSRP without a flinch and I have the feeling that I might have gotten them below that with a little negotiation. The key factor for this seems to be that dealers are getting HH allocations based on prior convential Highlander sales and a lot of high volume Highlander dealerships aren't don't have a strong Hybrid market. This same dealer only got a Prius every two months based on prior Prius sales. and they've got two HH's the first month of availability.
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    mike4698mike4698 Member Posts: 18
    I went to another Toyota dealer across the state line from New York last Saturday to see if they can find me a bluestone Highlander. Got the call Monday that they found one 11/2 hour away. Let me have it for $1,177 dollar off the sticker price. The other dealer in New York is mad, won't refund my $1000.00, but in New York they have to. They wanted me to take the next one they get, whatever the color it is. Didn't want any color but bluestone. Took it home Tuesday. What a GREAT SUV. Getting 24.8 miles per gallon in 48 miles I driven so far. So I glad I went to another dealer.
    Mike
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    otis1otis1 Member Posts: 142
    Could you tell us what dealer you went to? The rules of this board prohibit you from disclosing your sales person's name, but if you don't mind could you email it to me at otis987654321 at yahoo dot com.

    thanks.
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    mike4698mike4698 Member Posts: 18
    I will e- mail you the Name and the 1-800 number to you.
    Mike
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    phoebeisisphoebeisis Member Posts: 121
    waltrde-this is another of my manufactured numbers.It came from what most folks seem to be paying here($36000-$42000).Take a look at carsontoyota.com They are a big West coast(somewhere near LA,I think)internet discounter.Look at their specials.They won't be very instructive today-the only Highlander is a V-6 FWD with just a few options.It is priced at~23888-MSRP 27888.If it were loaded up like a FWD HH,it could be $30000-AWD $320000.Bottom line the "normal" Highlanders are heavily discounted with a manufacturers rebate of $1000(in most USA areas).They sell for $4000 under list-from the right dealer.The HH aren't discounted from MSRP,and with the usual dealer-dist add on junk they are selling for about $8000 more(cheesy stick on fake wood,pin stripes etc).This is just a guess,of course.Many "MSRP's you are seeing aren't the manu MSRP,but the MSRP after it has been slathered with dealer-dist add ons(now it is "list" price rather than MSRP,but that distinction frequently isn't made) .This way they can say"I'm sellIing it for MSRP,or list".It is more satisfying than saying"it is soo popular I want a $4000 "market adjustment".
    It is a popular car.The dealers can add-unfortunately.They know their are folks out there who have done the math-and know that for a $8000 premium at 120000 miles($2.50 gal 10mpg better mpg)-they(buyers) make money.If the break even was 20,000 miles-one year-everyone who could get the $$ together would buy one(over a plain Highlander-and every other $30000 midsized SUV).Dealers are very good at turning cars into as much $$ as possible.Charlie PS I saw a HH FWD go for ~$36000 on Ebay yesterday-probably a bargain.
    PPS I notice this is pretty unclear
    $30000 normal V-6 Highlander-15mpg(real life mainly city)
    $38000 HH 25MPG real life city
    At 120,000 miles the HH will use 4800 gallons.
    At 120000 miles the V-6 will use 8000 gallons
    3200 gallons cost $8000 dollars at $2.50 gallon
    Ignoring tax break and interest lost a HH will "break even" and start making you money at 120,000 miles.
    If gas is $4 gal then you will have made $4800 at 120000 miles.
    Mose realistic $3 gal-you have made $1600 at 120000 miles.
    If you plan to put 120000 miles on the car-the extra cost is free.You get a much faster-"cooler""greener" car for nothing!!Dealers do the same arithmetic.
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    larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Tax issue settled:

    http://motortrend.com/features/news/112_news050629_hybrid/
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    scottnrosescottnrose Member Posts: 47
    I have read with interest these discussions. But I can't sit out without a brief comment. Who is getting 15mpg from a HL V6 ICE? What are you doing to only get 15mpg? I have a 2004 HL LTD 4wd with 23K miles and I average 21.5 mpg. My worst tank was 19mpg and my best was 23mpg. I live in the DC/Baltimore area and there is lots of traffic here.

    While the HH is very interesting, I don't think that the numbers presented above fairly represent the ROI. You are not likely to recoup your "extra cost" in 120K miles, especially when the improvement in mpg is 5-7.

    I purchased my HL for $30,500 and, from what I can tell, the new HH are selling for at least $8K higher - at least for now.

    Furthermore, (and I don't know much about this) what is the warranty on the batteries? I would be concerned about a large outlay for a new battery pack at 120K miles and above.
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    toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    I just wanted to clear up something that has been a recurring theme here and on the Prius boards. The battery pack is made up of MANY smaller cells. When they run a diagnostic, they can and do replace any one of these many smaller cells. They don't need to replace the WHOLE NIMH pack in a whole unit. So talking about $4500 battery replacements is incredibly unlikely. More likely is $50 for one of the smaller units.

    Just some info for those who are not as familiar with these vehicles.

    Ken
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    phoebeisisphoebeisis Member Posts: 121
    Good points,some folks get pretty good mpg with the V-6 .The 15 from the AWD V-6 Highlander is using the 13 mpg from CReports city loop(and the 18 EPA vs 31 EPA),and assuming that most of the driving is city.The 15 mpg is really more an "average" of what you can expect if you are comparing it to an"average" midsized SUV.I get 13 mpg(city) with my Pilot.Ask honest folks with Explorers what they get-same story Chevy Trailblazers.The Highlander is a better than average SVU in all forms(4cyl 6 cyl HH).With your light foot,you might average 31mpg with an HH(probably not because folks who get good city mpg have discovered that getting off the gas early when they anticipate a stop, and NOT HAVING TO USE THEIR BRAKES MUCH is the key to good city mpg.).I think the EPA for your AWD is 18-24??It is 31-28 or so for an HH AWD.The EPA says you will be 13 mpg to the better city with the HH AWD(18 VS 31).10 MPG is plausible even for the regular Highlander.Just a rough guess to get a ballpark break even.The $2.50/gal is probably going to be waaay low,so the 120000 miles is not an outlandish figure.(the tax break and the $$ you could make on your $8000 are sorta a wash-with the tax break being worth more)Thanks-good points all-you probably wouldn't break even at 120000-less careful folks will...Charlie PS and they will have a little rocketship!!
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    scottnrosescottnrose Member Posts: 47
    phoebeisis - your logic makes perfect sense to me. I was just trying to point out that people who are buying the HH should take the gas savings into consideration, but it is very hard to justify the extra cost especially in this time of exuberance. The HH is a great vehicle on its own with better hp and fantastic technology. However, there are trade-offs - mainly extra cost and AWD vs. 4wd. The extra cost can be overcome by simply waiting. I think a $2-3K difference is about right. The AWD may not be an issue for many people. As to the improved mpg, I see that you are mainly talking about city driving. However, based upon my definition of purely city driving (downtown DC), there are many better vehicle choices than the HH. If we are talking about real life suburban driving, the HH is one of the best. However, once we are talking about suburban driving, the average mpg difference is probably not 10 (sometimes 10, but not avg.). I have read a number of reports about hybrids not getting the mpg that was expected. Thanks for your logic and comments on this - it makes for an active and congenial topic. BTW, I really have a heavy foot (not stoplight to stoplight - but on the open road). Ironically, I find that my HL gets slightly better mpg on the open road when I am pushing it. PS: I considered a Pilot over the HL when I was buying, one of my reasons for choosing the HL was based upon Pilot owner reports on poor mpg found here on Edmunds.
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    johnnyroasterjohnnyroaster Member Posts: 23
    The standard warranty on the entire hybrid system is 8 years/100,000 miles. This covers the battery, battery control module, hybrid control module and inverter. The bumper to bumper is 36/36 and powertrain is 60/60. Corrosion is 60/ unlimited miles.

    I have put just over a thousand miles on my white HH lt awd. Taking my calculations from actual fill ups, I have been getting 25.5 highway and 29 city. Most of this has been with the AC on. I have found that the computer is right on target with my calculated figures.

    Has anybody put more than 15 gallons in their tank? I have driven with the warning light on and the tank indicating empty and only been able to fit 15 gallons in the tank.

    One thing I noticed in the manual about the sunroof. I had to "normalize" the sunroof to make it auto open and close correctly. To normalize, you have to hold the vent open button until it vents and then fully opens and then fully closes.

    Has anybody found another iPod solution other than the cassette adapter for a HH with NAV?
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    fizbanfizban Member Posts: 42
    Tax issue settled

    Do you know on which line of the 1040 this is done?
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    johnnyroasterjohnnyroaster Member Posts: 23
    line 35. There is a second page to the link at motor trend that explains the deduction in full.
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    phoebeisisphoebeisis Member Posts: 121
    scottnrose-no question the early buyers are probably paying a $3000 premium over the cost in one year.Probably- If gasoline hits $4/gallon,they will all be geniuses,and the premium will go up to $5000 or so.At $4/gal that $48000 HH on Ebay might actually sell!!
    The V-6 AWD Highlander was a good bet VS the Pilot..The 17mpg city just doesn't happen.I shouldn't have been too surprised,but I didn't check CRs test which showed -guess what-13 mpg on their city loop!
    If it were just about having a safe,decent sized ,reliable people, light boat hauler,few bags of Home Depot"stuff" hauler;then it would be hard to beat a 4CYL Highlander.Find one with side curtains and a power seat-maybe $25000.But,then you have to time your acceleration with an hourglass-no fun factor at all-a toaster on wheels.It would take a lot of miles(300,000 maybe) to make up the difference since the 4 cyl gets decent mpg-and is $13000 cheaper.It would be a lot less vehicle,but a lot less money.
    The early buyers might be geniuses-we'll see.Even if they aren't,it is still a "fun" car that will make them happy at the pump,and happy when they hit the gas! A much better bet than cars usually are.Thanks.Charlie
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    johnnyroasterjohnnyroaster Member Posts: 23
    Phoebeisis,

    That $3000 dollars is really only $1500 or $1000 if you take the tax deduction into consideration. This year it is $2000 dolars for buying a new hybrid and next year $500. There will be no deduction in 2007 unless something changes. You may be able to haggle a bit with your dealer in a year or two but not if the gas prices go crazy.

    I think I made the right decision for us and love my new HH. It has greatly exceeded my expectations so far. For our family it is perfect for hauling our three kids and our dog.
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