Mazda3 Maintenance & Repair

mdaffron

What are you saying we agree on? I want to make sure I write it down so I can use it when I piss you off later. :shades:

BTW, kyfdx, I agree with you ... there are too many complaints for it not to be a real problem. But I'm perplexed here. The car is within specs. So what is the problem?

Meade

audia8q

We had a lemon law buyback on a Protege two years ago for piston noise....it took apx 90-120 days from start to finish and it did not require a lawyer. The customer got the entire purchase price back less mileage... Remember, every state has different rules for lemon law and some make it easy without the BBB and some dont....

kyfdx

The compressor won't stay on... It cycles off too often..

Gee.. I thought I put that in there..

mdaffron

Too often in whose book?

I did a search at a forum devoted to car air conditioning and found a guy complaining about his a/c cycling too often, and he mentioned that the outside temperature was about 70 degrees. Here's the response he got from an a/c expert:

"It's possibly just fine! 70F ambient is a bit cool and system can and will cycle to protect it from freezing up the evaperator. Try again when warmer out. Open doors and set full blast cold - cycling should stop and output temps should be mid 40s give or take depending on how hot it is. The sight glass and output temps are the real story. It is possible to be a tad low on refrigerant but not by much. Check again on a warmer day."

Your air conditioner will work better on a 90-degree day than it will on a 70-degree day, my friends! If it's only in the 70s, there are four switches on your driver's door that should take care of any climate-control needs.

Meade

kyfdx

The person who can't cool his car...

You just agreed that there is a problem (too many complaints to not be real.. remember).. and, you agreed that 42 degrees should be cold enough to cool any car..

I think it is obvious that if the air is cold enough, then the only problem could be that it isn't running long enough..

Obviously the compressor has to cycle on and off.. My suggestion is that it cycles off too often..

Seems simple..

Unless you don't agree that there is a problem.

regards,
kyfdx

mdaffron

If the air is blowing out at 42 degrees, then the compressor is doing whatever it has to to keep it at that temperature -- no matter how long it's cycling.

Again, the system is operating per specs.

The "problem" I'm referring to is unrelated to the a/c, since obviously it's running within specs! I'm wondering if the 2004s maybe had a windshield material that didn't block enough UV rays, causing the driver to feel warm all the time ... something like that. Or it's not tinted enough to keep the top of the dash from acting like a hot stone all the time.

No, after what several of you have said about the temperature of the air coming out of the vents, it's painfully obvious that the a/c system is running perfectly. The problem lies elsewhere. When you guys will realize this and expand your thinking a little, we may come to the bottom of what's causing this.

Tell me, do you have a moonroof in your car? If so, do you keep the shade closed when the a/c is on?

Meade

z71bill

WOW X2

This must be my lucky day. First I agree with something posted by mdaffron (BTW good catch on the spelling - wonder why spell check didn't flag it?) and now you. I need to go buy a LOTTO ticket.

I looked at the forms I needed to fill out to get a Lemon law started in TX. I didn't even bother to print them out - what a pain.

mdaffron

I mean, we are part of the reason you're feeling so lucky today.

:shades:

ivan_99

Yeah, I realize that the process can be long (and expensive). My intent would be to try and use the Lemon Law as a “threat” or bargaining tool.

Not that I advocate threatening your dealer, or even being rude. I usually find the nicer I am to the dealers when I have a problem, the quicker the problem gets resolved (my wife is usually the “bad cop” when things get ugly).

I believe that there are little “tricks” that dealers use to bypass these processes as well. Like keeping poor records of the problem, returning the car to the customer even though they know it is not fixed…so the car is not “out of commission” for more than one day. Like keeping an “open” service request for one item instead of closing it and reopening another once the car is returned for the same problem.

BTW, I received a “lemon law” booklet with the purchase of my Mazda. The salesman briefly went over it and said before it came to it (however unlikely) that he and the manager would do everything possible to correct any problems. Until I see otherwise, I take that for what it’s worth, a salesman line.

Terrible situation to be “stuck” with.

kyfdx

You are assuming that it blows at a constant 42 degrees.. I didn't make that assumption..

I also doubt that is the case...

A test in a garage with the car idling may be very different than what happens in real world driving..

Many of the posters with A/C problems state that warm air is coming out of their vents.. It is only in the controlled environment of the mechanic's garage later, that they are measuring air temperatures "within specs".

Ever tell a service advisor that you have a bad shimmy at 70 MPH? Sorry sir, we can't duplicate that... We aren't allowed to break the law on a test drive. I'm guessing that most of the "testing" done on the A/C would come out differently, if they parked the car outside all day, then tried it.. Or even, rode around the block with the owner, while doing the measurements..

regards,
kyfdx

mdaffron

Why don't you go to an independent mechanic or an a/c shop and pay for an "expert" diagnosis? If it comes out differently than what your dealership is saying, that certainly could be a tool when it comes to arbitration.

If you don't want to spend your own money, then take it to a completely different Mazda dealership and get them to check it under warranty.

Is anyone going to answer my question about the moonroof? You know, UV rays coming through that glass can really make you feel hot, even if the shade is closed -- they just beat down on the top of the shade, which is only inches from you.

I don't have a/c problems -- I also don't have a moonroof.

I'm trying to be constructive here and examine all possibilities, gentlemen.

Meade

z71bill

Mazda did admit that my AC has a problem - right after they said it did not have a problem

I have an AC system that will not cool my car.

Mazda says my AC is within spec -

Then Mazda issues a TSB to fix defective AC systems in the Mazda3

I take my car in - Mazda claims my AC "has the problem" and agrees to install a diffusser - per the TSB

My AC shows no improvement

Then Mazda says my AC is within spec.

mdaffron

backy

Anyone remember the posts awhile back (winter of '03-'04 I think) about problems defrosting the windows on the Mazda3? Is it possible the A/C issue is related to this, that there is a fresh air dispersal problem that affects both A/C cooling and defrosting?

z71bill

Its a plastic thing that looks like a vent cover - it is installed over the evaporator - to force air over its entire surface and reduce constant compressor cycling.

The reason the compressor shuts off is because a set pressure is reached - (pressure of refrigerant corresponds to temperature) when this pressure is reached the evaporator - I assume - is designed to be close to / slightly below 32 degrees. Since you don't want the evaporator temp to be below freezing - because then ice would form preventing any air flow and reduce the cooling to zero - the compressor shuts off - until the pressure again reaches another set number - then the compressor turns back on. But - Most systems have a delay built in between each off / on cycle - the delay is to allow the pressure to equalize between the low and high side of the system - starting the compressor before the high side pressure (somewhere north of 300 pounds) comes down would make the compressor "start up under load" which means it would be pushing against 300 pounds of pressure.

Since air was only being directed at part of the evaporator two things were happening - both bad - first only a % of the capacity of the evaporator was being used and second - the compressor kept shutting off even though the car is still hot (because part of the evaporator had no warm air hitting it - it got cold - which ment the set pressure was being reached - so the compressor would shut down)

So the cold - cool - warm air cycle many Mazda3 owners feel is caused by these issues.

Bottom line - poorly designed system - poor air flow - hard to fix "the right way" because it would require complete redesign of HVAC system. Mazda solution - stick on a $.25 plastic vent and proclaim the system to be "operating within Mazda spec"

backy - I think you are correct - this air flow problem also effects the defrosting capacity.

mdaffron

Mazda doesn't just throw together what it thinks is an A/C system and slap it on the car. The system on our cars (god, I wish I could find the link -- I used to have it) is a product of a manufacturer of air conditioners, and from what I understood when I visited their site about a year and a half ago, the system installed in the Mazda3 is the same system used in the 6i (which makes sense since it's mated to the same engine, at least on the 3S). It seems strange that I haven't read of these problems on the Mazda6 discussions -- but then again I don't read them very often.

Meade

bluem6i

the system installed in the Mazda3 is the same system used in the 6i (which makes sense since it's mated to the same engine, at least on the 3S). It seems strange that I haven't read of these problems on the Mazda6 discussions -- but then again I don't read them very often.


I have a 2003 6i and the AC will freeze you out, and I live in Central Florida where we use AC year round. The current weather is upper 80's to low 90's with lots of humidity.

I posted this a couple weeks ago but want to restate it. I had the AC fan/temp control module replaced on my 2002 Protege because the AC would cut out on fan speed 2. Afterwards, the AC performance was noticeably weaker and was barely keeping the car cool at 80 degrees. I went back in and complained. They were able to fix it with a cable adjustment. It made a huge difference in the AC performance.

Has anyone with AC issues on a 3 had them check or adjust the cable for the control module? Might be worth a try.

Joe

z71bill

It may use the same fan motor, compressor, evaporator & condenser but the problem with the Mazda3 is poor air handling.

I am 99.9999% sure Mazda knows exactly what the problem is with the defective AC systems - they also know how much it would cost to fix the problem - they are making a calculated business decision - spend the extra million or so dollars to fix the problem or risk making a few customers mad. Since mad customers don't show up on the next quarters income statement - the decision is easy.

mdaffron

It's made by Japan Climate Systems Corporation ...

http://www.jcsaircon.co.jp/en/

Then I went Googling. JCSC is an affiliate of Matsushita Electric Corp. (Panasonic), based in Hiroshima where the Mazda3 is manufactured.

Note (on that page I linked above) that they started producing the a/c for the Mazda3 in August 2003, but only acquired ISO certification a year later ... hmmm ...

If you navigate around their site, you'll find some evidence that they also make a/c equipment for the Mazda6 and Ford ...

Meade

mdaffron

This has much more info ... JCSC was created in 1987 as a joint venture by Mazda and Panasonic!

The link's kinda slow ... have patience ...

http://www.hitec.city.hiroshima.jp/ne/level7/ne3113.html

Meade

cti

I put a digital meat thermometer in the center vent - when I first start the car the air temp drops all the way down to 40 degrees - for about 5 seconds - then the air temp quickly jumps to around 48 - and stays between 54 and 59 degrees (depending on outside temperature). Some days it will hold between 48 and 54. Even with this cold of air the car stays sweaty hot.

I searched the forums because I thought z71bill had mentioned the temp of his AC. The above was from a post by z71bill dated May 16 of last year. While he doesn't mention ambient temperature, he lives in TX and I live in GA. My test was done almost exactly one year after his. My ambient temp was 86F so I assume his was similar.

His AC did the same thing mine did; his went to 40F and mine went to 41F before the compressor cycled off. Mine, on the other hand only went to 50F before stabilizing at 46F.

The AC in my apartment doesn't work well; the temp is 59F and the volume is very low. My apartment never cools down.

Splitting the difference on z71bill's highest temp range listed above gives 56.5F. I can readily believe that a car with the AC at that level would have a hard time cooling down - even at maximum- what with all that glass letting the sun in.

Someone confirmed above that low-mid 40s is a good AC temperature. No wonder mine feels fine and bill's doesn't.

Does anyone else with AC problems know what the temp is coming out of your vents?

Jason

cutt

I have a 1994 Mazda 626 V6 that runs good except sometimes when I stop the engine losses all power and the car will hardly move. If I turn the engine off, the car may or may not start. If I let it sit for a while then, start it up again, it will start and run good. I have changed the spark plugs, spark plug wires, the distributor cap, the fuel filter, the distributor and roller button.

Someone please help!

ownersmanual

J.D. Power and Associates 2005 Initial Quality Study:

Each year, J.D. Power and Associates surveys more than millions of consumers and rates auto manufactures on initial new car quality. Since quality ratings are based on research studies that survey a nationally representative sample of owners, the ratings are indicative of what typical buyers may experience. Mazda was rated 34 out of 35 manufactures with 149 complaints per 100 cars sold. Only Suzuki had more problems. Possibly the air conditioning problem in the Mazda3 contributes to their dismal ranking. Heck, even Volkswagen 147/100, KIA 140/100, Chevrolet 127/100 and Hyundai 110/100 are rated higher. Mazda might want to spend a bit more time screwing together their vehicles?

leyzurela

i was told by the dealer that the color of your interior has alot to do with how hot it gets in your car. I think this has some truth to it if your ac works fine but it take 20 minutes just to get to a tolerable temperature. I know there was a big difference in my old vehicle with dark interior and when I got a new vehicle with light beige interior. My car with lighter interior could be out in the blistering sun all day with no tinted windows and no sunshade up. It would cool down within 3-5 minutes. My older car has a dark gray interior and I used a sunshade all the time. It still took 15 minutes to cool the car down. Both vehicles were the same size with the same amount of inside space. I recently traded the car with the beige interior for a new car with almost black interior. I'm using the sun shade and it takes a long long time to cool down. Windows arent tinted and It has a moonroof. But at night, the AC gets so cold that my hands feel like ice. I think some people should see whether their AC gets cold when the sun is down.

z71bill

My AC does work MUCH better at night - I can even tell a difference when the sun goes behind a cloud. No doubt in my mind that the sun + a black interior makes it harder to cool a car. I would think that this fact is common knowledge.

The sad thing is Mazda is not smart enough to figure out this simple fact - after all Mazda made the decision to both sell a car with a black interior AND also put a VERY WEAK (some would even call it defective) AC system in the Mazda3.

I am not sure what difference it makes - Are you saying that I should just use the car at night?

mdaffron

Back in post 1697 you said ...

Try this - with the engine OFF open the hood and on the refrigerant line you will see a little blue cap with an "L" on it. This is the low side of the system. Slowly unscrew this cap - if you listen you will hear a small "PSSST" sound - that is refrigerant leaking. The cap on most AC systems is there to keep dirt out of the valve stem - not to keep refrigerant in the system.

Well, guess what. I was poking around under the hood of my 2005 Mazda3S wagon yesterday (putting in more washer fluid for the first time) and noticed the little blue cap. I cautiously unscrewed mine -- all the way.

No PSSST sound. No refrigerant leaking.

Maybe that's your problem -- and a simple one at that. You have a bad valve stem!

Meade

z71bill

At one point I thought the same thing (leak = low on refrigerant) - not only because of the PSSSST when I unscrew the little blue cap - but because the compressor cycles so often - if the compressor turns off even though the car is still hot inside then it is a better than 50% chance your system is low on refrigerant. The system has a sensor that monitors the low side PSI - if it drops below the set point - I would guess around 25 PSI - it shuts the compressor off. You do not want a compressor running without an adequate amount of refrigerant available to it - running a compressor "dry" even for a very short time will burn it up.

I pointed this out at one of my many trips to the dealership - and also talked directly with the tech who was working on my car - he assured me the refrigerant level was fine. I also checked the PSI myself and according to my gauges the level is fine. BTW - I can only here the PSSSST sound while I am unscrewing the little blue cap - so it is not a constant leak.

During one of my service visits they took all of the refrigerant out of the system - did some kind of a test - then refilled it with the required amount. So at that point I knew that the system was full - still had crummy performance.

I even - at one point thought that the low side sensor (I think it is called a pressure differential switch) was defective - so it was shutting the compressor off to soon - but the switch checked out fine.

s0seng02

How long have you driven this car? I have a 3I with a black interior and last summer I was cursing myself stuck with a poor A/C performance. But after 14500 miles on the clock the A/C has turned much better, cools fast ( I keep the fan speed at 2 and the air-flow in the recirculation mode, orange light ON).

Believe me it is much better now.

s0seng02

I do not believe JD Power's statistics. They have all stupid cars getting high points. I feel is that it depends upon how much you can bribe them.

I am extremely happy with my Mazda 3 and I believe all of you are.

z71bill

I just went over 13K - hard to understand why an AC system would - just on its own - go from poor to great - but it is possible - you could have had some "trash" in your system - it could plug up the expansion valve - or maybe an oil "slug" that partially blocked the evaporator. Over time these situations could correct themselves.

Did you notice a quick change - or was it small improvements over time?

ivan_99

Statistics are strange…

If you look at Lexus with an average around 100 (making this up, not sure), that means that out of every 100 vehicles there is 1 problem.

If you look at Mazda 3 at 150 problems per 100 (making this up as well) that means that out of every 100 vehicles there are 1.5 problems.

While the Mazda may have 50% more problems it’s not like there are 10 things wrong with your car.

Most problems are not show stoppers, just annoyances. So for me, when I go to the dealer and I say “can you look at this one problem” or “can you look at this one problem, as well as this other problem” it really doesn’t matter…as long as they fix it and that is the end of it.

If my transmission fell out…that one problem would bother me much more than my glove box squeaking and my radio not tuning.

backy

You are reading the numbers wrong. A score of 150 means, for example, that out of 100 cars, there will be 150 problems--an average of 1.5 problems per car. Still, I agree with your point (I think) that the difference between 1 problem and 1-1/2 problems per car is not very big--unless that extra problem is the tranny falling onto the road.

ivan_99

Yes...I forgot to mention the per car

mdaffron

:shades:

backy

For example, A/C that works well half the time (at night).

mdaffron

Well, that would only be accurate twice a year, at the equinoxes. At other times it would not be 50/50.

:shades:

oskwi

WOW...who would have thought that Earth Science would have some real world implications within the Mazda air conditioning discussion!

:P

ex_tdier

Ok, I had to actually use my A/C today in the 25 Celcius temperature the first time since I bought it in February. I only turned it on as the book said for 10 minutes a month. But, OMG, the A/C just sucks in my 2005 2.0 Litre Mazda3. I had better A/C in my 2002 VW Jetta TDI. I didnt have a meat thermometer in the car, will bring one with me to work tomorrow, but I know the cooling wasn't very good. I had no problem keeping my hand on the vent with the RECYCLE on and the A/C barely cooled at all.

Is there a factory fix for this A/C issue??

backy

Look here:
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005069

JD Power does not "recommend" cars; it reports results of its surveys. The Mazda3 is recommended by CR with the lesser of its two possible recommendations. To earn the highest level of recommendation, it would need to do better on the IIHS side crash test.

ex_tdier

Thanks backy. Looks like I made another "bad" call. I shouldve bought a Civic instead....i was so close in doing so.

backy

Why do you say that? The Mazda3 is a way better car than the Civic in many respects, including important ones like ride and handling. You got it--enjoy it!

mdaffron

Just remember -- this government that's telling you which car you should drive is the same government that told Americans how to eat for the last 20 years, quadrupling the obesity rate in this country.

I trust them about as far as I could eject them in an unbelted, non-air-bag-equipped 30-mph side-impact test between a Hummer and a Geo Metro.

You want some buyers-remorse therapy from some folks who really know cars? Here then:

http://www.mazda.com/product/mazda3/4a/2w/reputation.html

Meade

z71bill

Is that like 77 degrees F?

(Something in the back of my brain says (C*1.8) +32 =F)

Even my defective AC does better that that. My guess is your are low on refrigerant - but Mazda does have a bulliten #07-055/04 that will install a diffusser on your evaporator - it has helped a few people, but first they need to run a performance test (U0001XDX is the code for the test)

m1miata

JD Powers survey and CR survey look like they were taken on two different cars, judging from the bad and good responce. For JD Powers mechanical is a two dots out of five, which is pretty low, but looking at 2004 results for the Mazda 3 at CR book, it indicates that people had fewer problems, and shows a highest rank. So what gives here? From people complaining here, it looks like air conditioning problems on '04 ( '05?) , some tranny problems and a whine in the steering are the most prevalent problems. If the whine is not too loud in steering, the air is fixed, and at least one of the transmissions works, I guess the Mazda3 is something to consider. I am no huge fan of FWD, but the car is said to handle well, have plenty of power and good gas mileage, while sporting good looks inside and out. What more to ask for? I like the idea of telescopic steering, but not the electric steering. I hope they did not include throttle-by-wire. More crap to worry about them getting right.
:shades:
Loren

backy

The CR survey asks owners to report only those problems that they consider "significant." I haven't taken the JD Power survey recently so I can't say whether it asks for the same value judgement. That could account for the difference.

mazda6s

Oh no, you might be opening the door for another discussion about CR methodology. :surprise:

backy

Don't look at me... I wasn't the one asking the question!

shuffman

We have a 2005 Mazda3 hatchback, fully loaded. We live in inland Southern California. The a/c performance is marginal to lousy in hot weather. Whoever (Meade?) was suggesting that most of the complaints are from people who didn't read the manual may be technically right (most people don't read it). However, I read the manual cover-to-cover when we bought the car (I'm a geek that way), and I can't get the a/c to work well. Also, same person suggested that Japanese cars have weak a/c. I've had 2 Toyota trucks and 2 Corollas. Both will freeze you, even in hot weather. Some comments:

1. It's especially bad when the car is stopped or moving slowly. This suggests that possibly the fan isn't moving enough air across the condenser by itself.

2. It's marginal even at high speeds. This could also mean low airflow over the condenser.

3. Don't be fooled by supply air temperature. Cooling capacity is proportional to temperature times air volume. At the very least, the Mazda service people need to measure the air temp at high fan speed. It's possible that there's just not enough airflow, period.

4. Is it worse in the hatchback? There's more surface area and more air to cool.

Other than this (which we just discovered and which we'll take up with the dealer next week), we're very happy with the car.

Steve H

m1miata

Well if the '05 Maz3 cars don't keep passengers cool, forget it. Gets too hot in Calif, and other places I may travel to, so a no air car, is a no buy car. - Loren

jdig

We test drove an 05 Mazda3 yesterday (live in north Florida). It was hot - about 92 degrees. It was a white car with dark interior and it was parked in mixed sun/shade. The first thing I noticed - and I had not even been to this forum prior to that time - was that the A/C seemed inadequate. We test drove it and I played with the A/C controls for a while. I wanted to be sure I had it on max, etc. I like the layout and controls for the A/C, but I have to say that the output/flow and temperature seemed off. The flow didn't seem to be very powerful on the highest setting (even on face only) and the air didn't seem as cold as my other cars. We have a 4 year old Acura and a 6 year old MPV (the MPV is black) and both of those cars seem to have colder A/C units (we need this in Florida). I know this is very subjective - but again, this was my first thought when driving the car so I find this interesting now to read these posts. Beyond this one thing - I loved the car overall.