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When I'm dealing with the salesman in person or over email, should I mention S plan access right off the bat? Or should I wait until they find the exact car and then mention it when we start discussing price?
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I suggest that you call mazda corporate office direct in California and they can locate the exact car you want in any neighboring state.
I don't know where your located but in our region the MZ3 is selling at or near MSRP due to supply and demand. We had a bunch of "shoppers" this past weekend who told us they are finding dealers not willing to haggle much on the car. Especially if it's not in stock.
Did you make your offer? just call the guy and tell him you will give him a deposit NOW for $xxx over invoice and see what happens. They may say yes!!
Online services often get things wrong or they mislead people with the fine print that tells you their prices exclude things like destination fees or ad fees which can vary per region but are legit charges. Also, don't forget that mazda had some price increases recently that online services don't update often enough. Mazda adjusts prices on avg 3-5 times per model year.
I think you can only use one rev it up coupon...otherwise we would have nuts trying to get the whole car with rev-it up coupons. haha
Are you in the trinagle, triad, mtns, or near the beach? I had a so-so experience with a triangle dealer last year for my wife's MPV (long story). I'm interested to learn from your experience with any dealers, good or bad.
It's a variable cost. Depends upon market size (TV).
New Yorkers pay big bucks $500+
And
EVERYTHING is negotiable
The reason car companies put these things on the invoice is to try and reduce your ability to negotiate.
The ad fee may very well be an amount that the dealership has to pay the manufacturer. So what.
The dealer also must pay the salesman - but you don't see a sales commission fee added - well at least I have not seen that yet. They also must pay the light and water bill & property tax on their building. But I don't see these fees on the invoice.
If you spent $250 advertising your used car - then decided to just trade it in - do you think the dealer would agree to pay you the extra $250 for your trade?
You could show them the invoice - you really did pay it?
Or even more off the wall -
You pay a $300 advertising fee when you buy a new car - when it is time to trade it in how much of that fee do you think you will get back. If it is so important and official of an amount when you are buying the car - why is it worth zero when you are selling it?
To say you didn't pay the advertising fees because you "negotiated" them off is just moving money from one pocket to the other.. If they are on the invoice from the manufacturer, they got paid. You pay what you pay... the only two categories are what goes to the dealer, and what goes to the state (taxes, title).
regards,
kyfdx
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I like your comment "the only two categories are what goes to the dealer, and what goes to the state" That hits the nail right on the head. I also don't care what the dealers costs are - one of their costs is ad fees.
I also agree that you need to know what you are willing to pay and if you can't get the dealer to meet your price - then you move on down the road.
The one thing I don't agree with you on is the idea that they are just moving money from one pocket to the other. Again look back at your two categories comment. I do understand how many dealers negotiate. Sure we will give you $500 more for your trade, but the cost of the car you want to buy just went up by $500 - or the interest rate on the loan just went up by 2%. In that case they are just moving money around. But getting the dealer to drop the price of the car - because they are dropping the ad fee is pure savings.
I am sticking with my opinion that everything is negotiable. That is reality - plain and simple.
If you go into a negotiation KNOWING what you can't do - they I would agree - YOU can't do it. If you go in with an open mind you will end up with a better deal.
Let me give you an example - I offer to pay 25,000 plus TT&L - For a truck with an Edmunds invoice of $25,100 dealer wants $25,900 (including a $400 ad fee)plus TT&L - we talk for a while and I come up to $25,200 he still wants $25,600 - I say - the $400 ad fee is all that is stopping me from writing you a check today. But I will not pay any more that $25,200. They agree to wave the ad fee and take $25,200. Did they really wave the ad fee? Or did they just reduce the price of the car by $400. Who cares - it is still $400 less to me.
I have done the same thing when a vehicle has an option I really do not want - but has everything else I do want - I just deduct the price of that option from what I am willing to pay - tell the sales guy - I will find a vehicle that does not have that option on it - I don't want it - they want to sell the vehicle and they drop the price by that amount.
Bottom line is - the dealership can sell you the car for any price they want.
I disagree with that statement 100%, because you did pay it, the dealer just made you beleive you didn't pay it. but the dealer paid it and in return so did you when you purchased the car.
npaladin post is right on target.
do you think that when you buy corn flakes your not paying an ad fee also? everything you buy has advertising costs built in....with a car it just happens to be broken out.
I can not understand why this is so hard for people to understand - everything is negotiable.
audi8 - it is not like corn flakes - what would you do if the next time you went to the grocery store and find that for every item you had in your cart that the store added in an advertising charge, Corn flakes $3.99 ad fee $.50, milk $2.59 ad fee $.50 Bud light $5.99 ad fee $1.49 would you pay it?
I agree that most products have advertising and marketing expenses - but almost no one except the auto companies try and add it in as a separate line item. Why do they do that? The answer is simple. Because it gives them a way to get people to pay more for the vehicle. It is nothing more that a NEGOTIATING TACTIC - this is an obvious fact - if you can't see that they you need more help than I can give you. It gives the customer the illusion you are paying less / getting a better deal.
For some reason people will agree to pay $200 over invoice much easier than paying $500 over invoice. At first this seems logical, but lets factor in the ad fee -
The $200 over invoice deal is $25,600 - car invoice $25,000 ad fee $400 profit $200. The $500 over invoice deal is $25,500 - car invoice of $25,000 plus $500 profit(this dealership still pays the $400 ad fee to the manufacturer, but does not add it into their invoice). Which dealership will have an easier time closing the sale. Many customers will think - I am at $200 over invoice - that is a great deal I'll take it, but the same person will think - $500 over invoice is OK but not great - and keep trying to get a lower price. In case you are also mathematically challenged - the $25,500 deal is better than the $25,600 deal.
For the loyalty cash, does the family member need to live in my household? My brother owns a P5, but lives in Wisconsin. The local dealer was unsure if the loyalty cash applies. Please help
The family member does not have to live in the same house as you do.
In order for smart buyers to get a good deal, naive buyers have to pay more. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. If you ever check the prices at a true "one price" dealer, you'll see that they're usually about half way between invoice and MSRP. There's a hint for you.
In other words, you are able to get your car for less because somebody else paid too much for the same car. If everybody paid the same price for the same car, your price would be somewhere between the two.
I don't know if your getting ripped off or not, that is something for you to decide....
but think of it this way...
you are selling something...you have one item to sell and you have 20 buyers. Would you discount the item??? if you didn't discount the item would you be ripping of the buyer?
Some pay more - others pay less - the amount you pay will depend on what you negotiate, and I must add EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE.
The mistake many people make is they try and be fair. They know the dealer has to pay $400 in advertising fees - it seems fair to agree to pay them. That is why they end up paying more than they need to.
Before anyone jumps on me about not being fair - answer me this question - if the dealer is getting a direct manufacturer to dealer rebate of $1,000 do you think they will be fair and lower the price of the car by $1,000? That would be the "fair" thing to do. But only a few dealers will even let the customer know about the extra rebate. Why is that?
Would the amount you offer for the car be more or less if you knew that
1. The dealer has 50 more than they need - of the car you want - stored at an off site lot.
2. They are way behind the monthly sales goal - for the 3rd month in a row and if 20 cars are not sold by the end of the day the sales manager will most likely loose his job.
3. If they can sell 2 more cars today they will break a sales record for the most cars ever sold in a week.
4. The payroll checks that are due to be handed out today at 5:00 PM will overdraw the bank account by $15,000.
Now flip it over - would the dealers price they ask you to pay be more or less if they knew
1. Its 5:00 PM - you must leave tomorrow for a family vacation to Disney World - the vacation package which cost $2,500 - is already paid for and if you don't use it you loose it.
2. Your wife really wants a black Mazda3 for her 50th birthday - which is today - you have been dropping hints all week that a black Mazda3 is in her future - you only have 3 hours before the party starts - and the only other Mazda dealer in the area just sold their last black Mazda3 - the one you had reserved - because someone else agreed to pay $200 more.
All of this information - if known - would change the price. Is that fair? Is that right?
I really don't know if it is fair or right - I just know - that is the way it is.
Reminds me of a Toyota I bought just after Christmas 1990. I had just taken a 5 day course in negotiating from Karrass. I wanted to test the concepts. I ended up driving off with the car we wanted - for hundreds less that I thought possible. It turned out it was less than dealer cost (invoice less holdback). It was not until I went in for my first oil change that I found out why. The dealership had been sold on January 1st - the prior owner needed to get rid of as many cars as they could by December 31. Did I take advantage of the situation - no - I did not even know that the dealership was in financial trouble - I did not have a gun to their head - they made the choice to sell me the car for that price. That makes it a fair deal - we both got what we wanted.
Would I have gotten that good of a deal if I already knew that the advertising fees, the paint protection package, and the pin stripes - all on the invoice were not negotiable?
Used S-plan pricing to get it at Wellesley Mazda in Boston. Had a great experience. I was surprised they let me use S-plan since loaded 3's are a rarity in the northeast. Also applied for the $500 college rebate.
Oh yeah, the car also had 2 features that were pre-installed by the dealer: rear spoiler (looks sharp from the back, okay from the side), and an auto-dimming rearview mirror with compass and temp display (very cool and useful).
My first real road trip comes this summer, as I will be driving from Boston to Atlanta for grad school.
From prior dealings with them, I would say that they will stand by the ad price, but they are kind of a pain.
regards,
kyfdx
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