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Comments
Here in the North-East, well specd cars are hard to come by, so if you find a dealer with one it's in your interest to keep them happy. Personally I'm looking for a Mica Black or Winning Blue 5-speed with ABS, moonroof, leather and Xenon and it's proving hard to find ...
Passing along outright false information isnt helpful.
Please send me your vin number and I will be glad to post on here all the details of your sale including the ad fee.
After all, that's what really matters to the buyer and the seller when it comes right down to it.
Could he have shown me false numbers with the "ad fee" already included? Sure, but he's just asking for trouble if he pulls that on the wrong consumer.
Basically, Ad Fee is the same thing that dealers used to pull in the much more consumer-unfriendly 1980's. It was called "ADMU" then, for "Additional Dealer Mark-Up". You could pay it or not depending on the dealer and how popular the car was. I remember looking at the sticker on a 1987 Celica and seeing something on the order of $1200 for "ADMU". (on a $12,000 car mind you!) I asked the salesman what it was and he told me. I said "I'm not paying for that." He said, "Fine, I'll just sell it to the next guy." And he must have because I bought something else. But, the Celicas were HOT sellers back then and they could get the added price.
Whether you have to pay an "Ad Fee" for your Mazda depends entirely on the Mazda market in your area. If the dealers are selling them to other people with it, chances are you're gonna pay it too, or they too will sell it to the next guy.
You want a non-nogotiated price? Go buy a Saturn. Otherwise, do your homework so you don't get completely ripped off, but for a popular car, you WILL pay what your area's market will support.
Getting off the soapbox, now.....
I can look on the sticker (or sit in the car) and see what options the car has - I get something of value when I pay for leather or a moonroof - do you really think the charge for a moonroof and the ad fee are the same?
Really - the problem is not the fee - it is the fact that 99.9% of the time you don't hear about it until you read the sales agreement. It just somehow gets added in. That is not right.
I have told the salesperson - I will pay $xx,xxx plus TT&L - and NO OTHER FEES. They agree to my price - then it shows up on the paperwork. IMO that is just plain sleezy - and is (one reason) why the car business has such a bad reputation.
This is the detail of my deal - I don't see any ad fee - don't care if dealer paid one - I was quoted a drive out price of $20,290 - The sales guy actually ask me if I wanted him to redo the paperwork because he was $1.00 off - not worth the wait - he knew I would not gripe about a $1.00 - but it was nice of him to ask. BTW this is the 3rd vehicle I purchased from this dealership - I have always treated them with respect and they do the same.
My pricing:
Black mica with cloth
S 4 Door
Automatic
ABS/SAB/SAC
Sport package
Moonroof / 6DC changer
MSRP = $20,005
Invoice $18,539
My price $18,883 - $344 over invoice (not counting holdback)
Other costs:
Sales tax $1,180
License/registration 178
Doc Fee 50
Total other cost $1,408
Drive out price $20,291
I'm getting Mazda-3 for S-plan price as my company is corporate partner with Mazda (FMC). I'm waiting for memorial weekend deals as I'm sure by that time new rebates will kick-in and I could get it below invoice. To be honest with so much buzz around this car I'm yet to come across a single in my area (Worcester-Boston commute) and this makes me feel that rebates are inevitable.
Mazda3
S Package
Leather
Xenon and TMPS
Navigation System
Moonroof and 6CD
Sport Package
ABS and Side Airbags
Titanium Grey Metallic
I used the S Plan and the Graduate Program and thus got a price of a little more than $500 below invoice.
The total out-the-door price was 21,100 I think. They didnt have the car on the lot, but they found one in Michigan and will have it here tommorow night.
I was also able to get the 3.9% financing.
Does anyone have experience with negotiating with the S Plan. I know the S Plan is designed to eliminate the need to negotiate, but do the dealer take a hit on the S Plan or does it equate to a MSRP sale since Mazda pays them for selling to a S Plan customer? I tried to get the salesperson to explain it but I was stil confused. He wasnt being misleading, but my thoughts were that when a dealership sells to a S Plan customer, Mazda pays the amount that they discount back to them. Thus, they are essentially selling at MSRP. Does anyone know for fact how this works?
Thanks
There was not an "Ad fee" added on afterwards, nor a "Doc fee." I paid S-Plan price plus tax, inspection sticker fee, registration/etc, but no "special" fees. The invoice did have a $100 "Boston" charge, which could well be the "Ad fee" some people are talking about, but this was A: On the invoice already (clearly the dealer was being charged it) and B: wrapped up in the S-Plan price already (it was not added to the S-Plan price by the dealer).
Note that the S-Plan price is not itemized on the invoice (unlike the invoice price), so if you want the itemized list you should log into the S-Plan site provided by your employer to see how it all breaks down.
The only negotiating I did was with the finance guy, and he was _very_ laid back. He offered me a couple things but his attitude was "I have to offer you this," but it was clear he didn't expect me to want to buy it. Even the extended "warranty" sale pitch was low-pressure. After the sale was done the manager came over to shake my hand and ask that I please fill out the survey when it got there. Absolutely the least painful experience I've had buying a car, new or used.
If you're looking for 3s in the Boston/Worcester area, there were a few on the lot at SentryWest in Shrewsbury, right on Route 20. Good luck!
Some of the dealers in my region have stopped doing S-plan on the MZ3 due to lack of availability and high sales demands....This is a car that I would normally stock 30-35 cars in inventory and I cant seem to keep more than 5-7 on the ground...the factory can not replace the cars as fast as we are selling them....especially with 4-5 month order times.
Hope it helps, good luck shopping!
BTW, I ended up paying $700 over invoice for my 3 in December using the info I got from carcostcanada.
Barlo
Some dealerships keep their own employees in the dark - they don't want them to know the truth - many are smart enough to figure things out on their own anyway - but others just accept the company line.
Barlo
i bought mine last sunday, mazda 3S , moonroof/changer, abs/sidebag option, winning blue color for 17800 , and 500 rebate, adds up less than invoice price.
Winning Blue Mazda 3 Sport GT
A/C
Moonroof
I paid $23,650CDN + 15% tax = $27,197CDN out the door.
I think I got a good price. The car is on the train and I should have it by next week :-)
Invoice price for an I equipped as above is $16,567, and the S is $17,353. I qualify for owner loyalty $500 discount. I'd like to get an OTD price as close to $17k as possible (sales tax = 3%). It seems like some people are buying at or below the invoice price.
Am I realistic? Can I swing a Mazda3 S for these numbers? Please convince me which way to go.
Thanks, Paul
OTOH, if there is no ad fee printed on the invoice and the dealer is charging a fee then it is suspect and should be questioned.
congrats and enjoy it !
To get the discount you must identify yourself to a participating dealer as an S-Plan buyer and show proof of eligibility. This is a good thing because you usually deal with someone in Fleet Sales or the Sales Manager neither of which work on commission.
The price you pay is fixed. The dealer *must* show you a true copy of the factory invoice with the S-Plan price - which is pre-determined by Mazda. The price you will pay on a Mazda 3 with this plan is truly below the actual dealer invoice (the price the dealer must pay to have the car delivered to the lot). You may also add any additional incentives (such as cash back) on top of this plan.
The dealer may *NOT* add any additional document fees, prep, or conditioning charges. The only thing you pay is the S-Plan price plus Tax(es) and License and/or Registration.
How does the dealer make any money? They still get what is called "Roll Back". This is money that Ford/Mazda pays them back after the car is sold. They also get additional monies for plan participating, advertising, and overall sales volume - this is usually why special buying plans are handled by the dealer's Fleet Sales dept. If you finance the car through the dealer they also make money off of that as well.
I bough my Mazda 3S using the S-Plan since my wife works for a Ford Partner company. I paid about $300 below dealer invoice.
If I hadn't had this plan I would have probably bought a new car through the program offered by AAA (AutoClub). I bought my Camry a few years back using the AAA New Car Buyer's program. It's available to any AutoClub member. The price is pre-determined. No hassles. I got $2,000 off the sticker price which was good considering the car was a really hot seller at the time.
My local Mazda dealer is offering s plan prices to the public, what is your take on this since you seem to be in the know?
However, unless you have a Ford Employee or Partner PIN number you aren't guaranteed the terms set forth under the plan. This means that the dealer can haggle and add fees since you aren't a true S-Plan buyer.
Just because someone calls it a S-Plan doesn't make it so. The true S-Plan is only offered to eligible employees of Ford/Mazda or through Ford's Partner Recognition Program - fordpartner.com.
Mazda3s 5-Door Hatchback
Automatic
ABS/SAB/SAC Package
Moonroof & 6 CD Package
Xenon & TPMS Package
Black Leather Interior
Cargo Net
Wheel Locks
Sunlight Silver Mica
MSRP: $21,365
Invoice: $19,898
Quoted Price: $20,494
Mazda Loyalty Rebate: $500.00
Final Price before TT&L: $19,994.00
OTD Cost: $20,903 (Includes Tax, Title, License, and processing fees)
Does this sound reasonable?
Great forum! I've finally convinced my wife that the M3 GT is the way to go for our new car (didn't take much convincing!) We have an old civic now, which we love- but it's time. We're set to buy an M3 in about 3-4 months but I have a few questions I'm hoping some fellow Torontonians/ Canadians can help me with:
1) I appreciate all the info on dealership experiences (very helpful!)- and it looks like Gyro is scoring well comparatively in TO, but I wanted to confirm that everyone's had good experiences buying & servicing there.
2) Has anyone in Canada gotten a better deal than $700-800 off MSRP buy buying with cash- i.e. not financing via the dealerships?
3) This is a very sweet car, so I'm not sure Mazda will need to sell it hard in 2004, but what do people think the odds are of them going to 0% financing, cash back etc.? I know this is hypothetical, but does anyone know what time of year Mazda generally does this?
4) Last question- kind of stupid, but does anyone know if Mazda makes a sports rack for the M3? I haven't seen it in the ad material, and I didn't check with the dealer.
Thanks all- this will be a great help!
Dave (in TO)
You will not get a better deal by paying cash, as the dealers make money on financing.
You should always work from invoice up, not MSRP down (unless you can't get invoice pricing in Canada).
We are one of the biggest volume mazda dealers in connecticut and we have alot of earnings but we are seeing a 5-6 month factory order window. with mazda only processing orders once a month, 6-8 week boat ride and the substantial order backlog you can see why it takes so long.
If your dealer ordered your car and put your name on it, which they can do in the mazda order system, they can show you exactly what status its in. If it says TBD, your in for a long wait.
I just put a deposit on a 5-door Sport, automatic with the ABS package and moonroof/CD package.
My husband gets the s-plan and the dealer showed me an internet printout of the "invoice" and to the left with plan prices - the s plan price was only $6 less than the invoice...
He told me the MSRP of the car was $20,005. and that the invoice was $18,775 - the s plan then being $18,769.
Does this sound right?
Also, when he put the purchase price in he deducted $299 as a dealer conveyance fee from the quoted invoice price and then added it back where it was pre-printed on the order form.
The one thing that got me was that the "invoice" looked like a web page printout. I'm going to call him this a.m. and ask him to fax it - to be sure it has my vin too.
also, the mfg can not dictate what a dealer may or may not charge..they can only suggest. The gross profit the dealer receives on an S-plan is so small that most dealers would pass on an s-plan if they didn't charge the doc fee. AD fees are not waived under any circumstance. It is a legit part of the cars expense the dealer pays mazda.
sharol....mazda dealers get their invoices from the mazda dealer system on the web..thats why they look like a web print out...congrats on your new car!! many dealers, except for the desperate ones, have stopped selling the mz3 on the splan, so you did well.
I actually bought my car at S-Plan price here in Shrewsbury, MA. I bought 5DR HB with ABS package + 6 Disc & Moonroof package. And my price under S-plan was 17895 - 500 USD loyalty rebate = 17395 + tax, title & doc fees. Actually if you go on fordpartners website they have price for vehicle listed under S-plan. I've downloaded that document in pdf file. If anyone needs to see the price email me.
The price you were given is correct. The price of $18,775 is what the dealer must pay Mazda to have the car delivered to the lot. The S-Plan price you were given was below that - however, not by much. Mazda sets plan pricing for the cars not the dealer.
audia8q,
You are wrong about the S-Plan. Although dealers have the option not to participate in the S-Plan if they do offer it they *MUST* comply with the terms of the plan. Dealers are contractually obligated to their manufacturers they cannot simply pick which parts of pricing plans and sale offers that they like and exclude the rest.
As far as additional fees on S-Plan purchases, a dealer may NOT add any additional fees for prep, conditioning, or document preparation. If it is a tax or licensing or registration fee then, of course, you must pay it.
Remember, unless you qualify for this plan as a Ford/Mazda employee or Partner Company Employee you are not entitled to the true terms of the plan.
Just my 2 cents.....
PS: And of course, as I wrote a few months ago, my Mazda3 purchase was easy and fair. It was a no-haggle $500 over invoice, and that's what I paid.... to the penny. I think $500 is fair. I remember the "old days" of $1000, $2000 and higher markups.
thx
$16400+TTL is a pretty good offer, but watch out for the add-on fees.
I finally went to the Mazda dealer yesterday and test drove the 3 hatch auto. You know... when there's no question in your mind that you like something...FINALLY!?
Anyway...I put a deposit for a lava orange/black leather/auto/moonroof/SAB for $500 over invoice which is fine with me. You can't expect to get something cheap when it's popular and just came out.
Anyway..there is going to be a problem finding this combo...especially with the leather. I already did a dealer stock search and I want the leather (better padding I think)
My salesman said they can't take a car from New Jersey, etc...because of NYS emissions. Is this true???
Why would Mazda go through the trouble making some cars with different emissions than others?
I hope he's wrong...because I don't want to wait long!
I might change my mind in the meantime!
I am picking the 3 over the 6 hatch...because...I can't really wait much longer...and I have a feeling the Japanese 3 will be more reliable than the 6...not necessarily because it's made in Japan..but because I think Ford may have less to do with it. The 6 doesn't have folding mirrors which is one thing that bugs me. I just hope the 3 has as good a crash test result as the 6!