By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
"You may have just hit a home run! Have you ever talked with anyone about the subject?"
Nope, I don't know anybody in the auto industry. Maybe I should change my career and fulfill my dream. :-D
Dennis
Dennis
Break records in terms of what?
Dennis
alpha: thanks.
From what I've read the real-time MPG reading in the Prius is not always accurate.
<flame suit on>
But I do think it's useful to learn the most efficient driving style. Definitely.
I do think the Accord hybrid will be popular. We'll see how it does vs. the Camry and Altima hybrids. I'd like to see them all succeed.
How about OPEC begging the US to buy more oil so they don't go bankrupt? Barrels at $10 per? Wouldn't that be a nice switch?
More likely China will pick up whatever demand the US drops, but still, it's a step in the right direction for the USA.
-juice
About 5% difference in error. Good enough to know what kind of mpg you are going to get.
Dennis
> in the Prius is not always accurate.
The bladder in the tank (used to virtually eliminate evaporative emissions) changes size based on temperature. That gives the false impression of Multi-Display inaccuracy, since the size of the tank isn't always the same.
Also, don't forget that the gas station pumps themselves are rarely consistent. Each detects "full" at a different point. So unless you use the same one all the time, the odds of varied measurement is extremely high.
And keep in mind that just 50 cents of gas difference can mean about a 2 MPG error.
JOHN
someone (like i was) who's in the market for a V6 accord/camry is not going to be considering a car that has worst performance (as in acceleration) than most economy cars.
driving a 270 hp car that also happens to get 35 miles/gallon is appealing to me. i would like it more at $27k though. give up some of the standard equipment in a EX model to keep the price down.
if you're considering a prius, the car to cross shop with honda is still the lame duck HCH.
no doubt about it, the current HCH has been leaped frog by the new prius. but before that the HCH was the more refined vehicle that has almost all of the functionality of a regular gasoline civic. something that could not be said of the last prius.
Prius was engineered to achieve lowest in emission. From your own description, why would you buy a green car like Prius? In defense of Prius, a car that weights 2900lbs with 76 horse power engine, the performance is very impressive. Prius does the best job at lowering emission.
For those people that are in the market for a Corvette, 270 hp FWD Accord is just a "lame duck" as you put it.
There is no point to put down a car for what wasn't designed to do.
Dennis
Is there a way for us to communicate directly instead of limiting our discussions to this message board? I'd like to do so. If you want, look up my telephone number on switchboard.com and give me a jingle - I'm the guy who lives in the south.
Lee
For a $25k Prius, that's $1250 top offset sales tax.
For a $30k Accord hybrid, you're talking a not-insignificant $1500 tax credit. If the hybrid option costs $2000, you're only actually paying $500 for it. Add the fuel savings, and the resale value is higher, and you might actually have a lower TCO on the hybrid!
Surprise.
I visited a Lexus dealer today and we talked about the RX400H. In that case MD gives you the max $2000 credit. The hybrid costs $3000, but the net cost is just $1000, really. Again, the TCO for the hybrid is lower.
In MD, consumers are catching on to this loophole. They had 28 deposits! $500 to get on the list. RX400H is beyond my price range but I have to admit it's very tempting!
-juice
If passed, it would be effective July 1, 2004.
The $$$ is based on the factors of actual hybrid benefit, not the price.
JOHN
Is Subaru planning anything by way of increased fuel efficiency? Any Legacy Hybrids bantered about?
~alpha
You are right that the tax incentives do help, but in the case of the Hybrid Accord, I would think that these would be selling for MSRP or possibly even above it. The demand, I suspect, will be very high for awhile. Couple that with the fact that other Accords can be bought at invoice or even below, and it seems that you have a much bigger difference for hybrid as well. So the real cost of the hybrid seems like it would be higher. I would LOVE one of these cars, but I suspect too high demand and too low supply will keep it from being a worthwhile investment (for me).
Hybrid Option = $2000-3000 (Est)
Non Discounted Hybrid vs Non Hybrid at Invoice= $2500+ (est)
Tax Credit = Depends on State or fed laws
Subaru has shown a couple of concepts but has no production plans yet. They are tiny, 1% market share, their R&D budget wouldn't pay for the paper clips used by a big company like Toyota, LOL.
But we'll see. I hope so. The 7 seater will be shown next Jan at NAIAS, and by then the RX400H will be the cat's pajamas. Subaru would have perfect timing if it did offer a hybrid option on that.
tds1: very good point, and car that is being discounted may have a bigger advantage. The Lexus dealer said they don't have to discount the RX much. Highlander does get discounted, that indeed makes the price difference for a hybrid higher.
MDX should get one, can you just imagine demand?
The other thing is MD is a small state. Let's see if MN indeed passes that legislation, and who else follows.
-juice
The orginal HSD team had no more than 15 people. Maybe that's why Toyota claimed that they were making profits from the classic Prius.
Dennis
I bet HSD v2.0 took a lot more than that, though.
-juice
-juice
i was responding to someone else who was comparing the accord V6 hybrid and prius. I wouldn't. that's the point. someone in the market for a V6 equipped camry or accord would not likely consider the prius but would probably give the accord V6 hybrid (or the camry V6 hybrid when it comes out) a look.
conversely someone in the market for a prius would consider the civic hybrid before the accord hybrid.
"For those people that are in the market for a Corvette, 270 hp FWD Accord is just a "lame duck" as you put it"
yes, these cars are in very different markets. but no, the accord is not a lame duck. the accord is only in its second year of its current design and therefore the "lame duck" description wouldn't make sense. the current civic hybrid on the other hand is going to be replaced soon, thus the lame duck phrase.
I thought HCH came out for only a few year ago. HCH replace with which car?
Dennis
i'm making the assumption that the civic hybrid will see improvements at the same time as when the gasoline civic line is redesigned.
lets just forget i brought up the term "lame duck" other than it wasn't meant as a defamatory remark.
I think Hybrid technology had to start with cars like the Prius and Civic. It will be great when it is installed in cars like the Accord V6, Highlander, and RX. Lots of people want better gas mileage and performance, but not many want to drive small, sometimes "weird" looking cars.
it's going to happen. i heard 270 hp and up to 35 mpg. an additional feature the hybrid accord will have is cylinder deactivation.
If it is similar to a fully loaded EXV6, then it may have a MSRP over $30,000.
People have speculated that it would cost $3000 over the cost of a similar non-hybrid model, but I don't think it would sell many after the first few months at that much of a price difference.
i'll speculate that it will be its own model. having what the LX V6 has now adding some of the features of the EX V6 but not all to keep the price down.
sort of like what they did with the civic hybrid.
Thanks!
307web,
I have not see a mention of trim level, but I would assume that Honda will throw in all the goodies that are already a part of EXV6 although I wish LXV6 is the starting trim to keep the base price down and let people choose a premium package if they want to.
Accord EXV6 carries a price tag of $26K. Adding hybrid system may add $2-3K. Now, is it worth it? As a package, I love the Accord. There is little that Honda needs to do to an Accord to place it in near luxury segment. It already feels like one. Add electric assist, toss in LSD and stability control, for $30K or less, there is a near luxury sedan that could deliver 260 HP or so, with a huge torque boost at low rpm (even compared to Accord V6) potentially rated SULEV or better, returning the mileage of a Civic in city (that by itself could mean a 50% improvement in mileage).
At $30K, it might be logical to compare what the competition offers (a fully loaded Camry could cost as much today). And Accord Hybrid might come on top.
Civic Hybrid is selling reasonably well at the moment while it carries a 10% premium on top of the top of the line Civic (EX) without a boost in overall performance. Accord Hybrid may carry a similar premium over whatever trim it is based upon, but also with an overall improvement in performance. I’m sure volume won’t be the thing at the moment for the hybrid, but it should do quite well.
That said, I’m actually eager to see TSX get hybrid power before it is time for me to consider a new car.
The MSRP of a 2004 EXV6 with Navi is just under $29,000, however in some areas you can get them for around invoice, making the street price just over $26K including Navi.
That could make the real street price difference of an EX-L Hybrid near $4000 over an EXV6-Navi and still not have the navigation system.
any thoughts/insights welcome.
Yes, in MD you get a state tax credit of 5% up to $2000. So that Accord hybrid at $30,000 would get a $1500 credit, not insignificant. Plus what ever the feds tack on.
-juice
You will see virtually no drop in demand of regulat gas-only Accords because hybrid production will be soo low as a proportion of overall Accords. Maybe 30K to 35K Accord hybrids out of 400,000+ accords is nothing. That plus the price disparity between the 2 will also keep demand for regular accords at or near the same level.