Hybrid Honda Accord

viet

Road & Track's poll on the hybrids (Please scroll down window and read POLL section on the right):

 

http://roadandtrack.com/default.asp?section_id=1&poll_id=35

backy

Good result for the HAH--but interesting they did not include the HCH in the poll.

viet

TV commercial just introduced Honda robot ASIMO to do household and office chores. It is to be released in 2010. The robot is able to shake hand, walk and acts like a real man.

gfedchak

Thank you. As a Civic Hybrid owner, this is all valuable to know about the Accord Hybrid.

 

And I'm sure that Honda would be happy to know that I'm reading about the Accord Hybrid!

viet

The Accord hybrid features a new 5-speed transmission that is 60 mm thinner than the transmission in the standard V-6 Accord.

 

http://www.ai-online.com/issues/article_detail.asp?id=618

falconone

I know.. I have one! I've also driven a Prius and it is a very fun car to drive. Much more so than my somewhat bland Accord. Still doesn't explain why the Prius outsells the Honda hybrids. Heck.. the Prius even has more content than the HAH for LESS money. Who cares if it goes 0-60 a few seconds faster? Don't get me wrong, I still think the HAH is a wonderful step forward for Honda in hybrid technology, it's just that if I were to buy a hybrid, I'd opt for the Prius. Now if the HAH was in hatchback form, that would be a different story!

falconone

According to numerous ads in Popular Science, Honda is committed to adding ABS, side airbags etc to ALL their cars by 2006. They specifically mention that VSC will be added to all their light trucks by 2006 as well. NO mention that it will be available to their cars. A GLARING omission if you ask me!

stevedebi

" NO mention that it will be available to their cars. A GLARING omission if you ask me! "

 

Thanks for the update, I tend to focus on the SUVs, since I own a CR-V. Of course, sedans don't need VSC so much, being lower to the ground with a wider track vs height.

sapparo

C'mon Honda get serious what sets the HAH apart from the other Accords very limited same paint colors and no HID xenon lights even as option which the Prius offers for much less money OTD. Even the thousands less TSX has this standard.

 

Why not offer a unique different color scheme like limited models should and why not change the body bumper/skirting or something to indicate it's different like BMW does with the M series.

If I spend $30k on a very advanced low volume car I want it to be different period! Honda cheapskates this isn't the LX value model.

xcel

Hi Sapparo:

 

___How was Honda going to hide the price of the Hybrid Drivetrain, Active Mounts, Active Noise cancellation, and separate Hybrid electric driven A/C unit? Do you really think it cost just $3,400 more for this HW over and above the std. V6? I have to believe the OEM (Honda) is still paying at least $1.5K for the pack, $1,000 for the Controller(s)/Inverter(s), $200 + for the A/C unit, let alone the Mounts and ANC unit. After that, what about the design and research to make all of this extra HW work properly together? This IMA HW sure didn’t come off the Insight or HCH? The concept and basic design, yes, but not the HW or the integration in the least.

 

___Good Luck

 

___Wayne R. Gerdes

ramseyny

I have had my HAH since Saturday and am pleased so far. It drives well, with decent acceleration, brakes well and has a decent fun factor. I have owned Saabs for many years but was really wanting a hybrid. Unwilling to wait for a Prius and not wanting to Pay for the Lexus 400h, I decided to get the Honda. With a family, I didn't feel the HCH was large enough and the Insight out of the question. I miss my stick shift but the tranny is pretty smooth with none of the indecision on hills I've experienced with other automatics. While the stock tires do well on dry pavement, they are not up to the snow we've seen this week and I'll be getting 4 snows next week. Hopefully the Nokians I picked will not effect mpg too badly. The XM stereo is not as user friendly as my Father's Audi but the sound is decent. With 150 miles clocked I have yet to push the average mpg over 20. No highway miles yet. I'm sure it will go up with a few more miles on it but I am glad to be supporting the advancing technology even if I fall a bit short of advertised numbers.

One of the things I miss most about not having a Saab is no longer having the discussion group at the Saab Network. The participants were almost universally friendly and helpful, offering sound advice for novices and pros alike. I hope this group can evolve into such a place.

FYI, I paid sticker but had them include steel wheels, wheel covers, lug nuts, and installation of snow tires all at no charge. They had me pay cost for the tires themselves. Also, between federal and state tax credits and deductions for hybrids, I'll be getting about $3,000 back.

gagrice

Welcome to the forum. We look forward to your experience with the HAH. Most all of us are interested in new technologies and some of the debate gets a bit heated. As more people buy hybrids and post their information on the board it will get to be a great place for new and old users alike. Good luck with your new car.

falconone

UNTRUE. Do some research and you will find that to the contrary. In Europe accidents have been reduced significantly since the introduction of ESP available in most cars. Sedans DON'T defy the law of physics.

gatrhumpy

I test drove the new Accord Hybrid a couple of weeks ago, and I loved the car, I currently own a 2004 Accord EX V6, and the thought that the HAH felt a little quicker in straight line acceleration. I love that feeling when you mash the throttle and it pushes you back in the middle of the seat. If I wanted to pay the price premium and wait for one with the navigation to show up at my local dealer, then I would absolutely do so. But I'm happy with the already stellar car that I have.

robertsmx

I couldn’t care less about options on Prius et al, but I agree with you that Honda should have differentiated HAH a little more from its non-hybrid counterparts. Honda did it with Civic Hybrid. I really like the grill treatment on some Asian Accords (India and Thailand markets to be specific). Not that it makes a difference in ownership experience, but sometimes it helps to make a marketing statement.

 

But I disagree with your argument that $3-4K makes a huge difference. You get there ($30K) in a hurry with most family sedans today.

robertsmx

Some cars need it more than others. Prius would fall in that category. I've never had a car with stability control, because most of the time, they have been extremely stable to start with.

dewey

"I miss my stick shift but the tranny is pretty smooth "

 

I know the feeling. I would only buy a car with a stick shift. The HAH is a fine piece of technology, BUT no stick shift option. I like active driving versus passive driving.

 

My views may be a bit extreme, especially as % of manual cars on the road are declining and may soon face the same fate as the DODO Bird

stevedebi

"UNTRUE. Do some research and you will find that to the contrary. In Europe accidents have been reduced significantly since the introduction of ESP available in most cars. Sedans DON'T defy the law of physics."

 

Hmm, I don't recall saying that sedans defy the laws of physics. I said they don't need VSC as much as SUVs, which have a higher center of gravity, and are narrower in width for their height. I'm sure it benefits all vehicles, but some more than others.

 

Having lived in Europe, I think they would benefit from less construction on the Autobahns and people driving slower, more than having VSC. A properly driven vehicle (of any type) should never get into VSC territory - if the driver knows the vehicle limits, and observes the road conditions. The problems arise when people try and drive their Ford Expedition like a BMW (with due respect to the X3/X5 models), resulting in rollovers and other such incidents. People who would drive like that need VSC to protect them from themselves.

falconone

True.. bit in any case I'd rather have a car with VSC as an added measure of security. Heck... even the 2005 Corolla has it as an option. Shame on Honda!

kernick

you: if the driver knows the vehicle limits, and observes the road conditions. The problems arise when people try and drive their Ford Expedition like a BMW (with due respect to the X3/X5 models), resulting in rollovers and other such incidents. People who would drive like that need VSC to protect them from themselves.

 

me: totally agree. The speed limits and rules of the road in this country are set so that vehicles with relatively poor dynamic-physics such as garbage trucks, school buses, and semis can safely operate at the legal limits.

 

I would also like to point out that the whole point of hybrids should be as the alternative to those who want better mpg. Since the maximum speed limit in this country is 75 mph, why do hybrids need hp such to maintain 120+ mph speeds?

If decent acceleration is the answer and not top speed, this only requires 10 sec. of power which could be provided by a larger capacitor. A large gasoline engine producing a lot of hp is not required; unless the hybrid is designed for towing.

robertsmx

Now we will need knee airbags as well. Kia has offered them for years now. If VSC is so important, why is it an option, especially in cars that feel far less stable on road than others that don't?

backy

Since the maximum speed limit in this country is 75 mph, why do hybrids need hp such to maintain 120+ mph speeds?

 

Hybrids are sold in other markets besides the U.S.--such as Germany.

 

Personally I don't think any car sold in the U.S. for street use, except police interceptors, needs to go 120 mph, but that doesn't change the fact that the HAH does have that kind of power, for people who think they need it.

mikemc

Currently owning a 2000 Honda Accord LX and a 96 Accord DX, I picked up my Accord Hybrid on Saturday.

 

I paid MSRP and declined all dealer options (extended warranties, clear coating, etc.). I was surprised to find the Honda Accord Hybrid excluded from the 1.9% financing program that is available for all other Accords. For the hybrid, the lowest financing available was 3.9%. At least that is what the Honda finance guy found after checking with two different Honda purchasing agents.

 

After a few, very short (3 to 8 mile) city trips, the car has 45 miles on the odometer and is averaging 21.7 mpg.

 

The car is great though I hope my mileage improves.

viet

You have to fill 3 gas tanks, note the miles driven for each gas tank and average out. Quick calculation may be accepted for 1 tank. I have never calculated MPG only on 45-mile drive. Also, I heard the Civic hybrid improves the MPG after the engine breaks in. My regular Accord V6 EX gets 22/30+ MPG sometimes 31 or 32 MPG on highway. The hybrid must be better for sure.

 

I desperately have been waiting for my graphite Accord hybrid with NAVI. Hopefully I will have it before Xmas.

falconone

People who buy cars like the Kia don't VALUE safety. That's the same reason Ford deleted stability control as an option on the Focus. After 2003 you can't get it. Honda should have this option on their top end sedan.

falconone

Your mileage will be better when taking longer trips. That, I can assure you. Check your tire pressures too! I recently purchased a new vehicle and found 26 pounds in each tire!!!

robertsmx

I wouldn't say that. Kia/Hyundai have been keen on the same marketing strategy that others have. It is about selling a product.

 

That said, I'm not going to buy Prius over HAH for any reason, so let us leave this at that.

gagrice

Honda should have this option on their top end sedan.

 

Has Honda developed it for the Accord? What does stability control do that traction control does not handle? I see of the competing vehicles stability control is only available as an option on the Camry. Altima and Legacy do not have it either. So it is more than just the Kia that does not have it.

robertsmx

It is a matter of need to market a product. Honda doesn't see the need, but offers stability control in its basic cars (standard in European Jazz). As of now, all Acuras (TSX and above) have VSA standard. It essentially prevents side slip, as opposed to traction control (which is standard in Accord). I see side slip as greater issue in cars with poor traction/chassis dynamics to start with.

fxtool

viet-

I'm in the same boat as you, waiting for my graphite. I bought it a week ago, and still no word. I'm here in So. Cal. I hope it comes for Xmas as well!

 

Cheers-

 

fxtool

viet

Hi Fxtool, my dear "Hybrid Doctor concurrently Accord Master"

 

Does your hybrid have a NAVI.? My wife loves the graphite so she diverted me to the other dealer while I was on my way to the other dealer to sign the contract to buy a coming desert mist HAH. We currently have 2 gold accord V6 EX and 1 blue Accord. This is my first Accord with a NAVI. and my 8th Honda automobiles plus a numbers of Honda motorcyles. It seems taking longer to have those Accord Hybrid with NAVI. be delivered. Most dealers get those HAH without NAVI. in their first shipments.

 

It is so nice to have my brand-new hybrid on or before Xmas. I am in N. Cali. Please remember to record the MPG OK? Why did you not buy a BMW 325i instead to get an "Elegant European IMAGE". Price is about same as the HAH. Happy Holidays to you and your loved ones.

Kirstie_H

Hybrid 4dr Sedan (3.0L 6cyl gas/electric hybrid 5A) MSRP - $29,990 / Invoice - $26,980

 

Hybrid 4dr Sedan w/Navigation (3.0L 6cyl gas/electric hybrid 5A) MSRP - $31,990 / Invoice - $28,777

stevedebi

"What does stability control do that traction control does not handle? "

 

Traction control (on Honda vehicles) helps prevent the wheel from slipping when accelerating below 18 MPH. It works by applying the brakes to a wheel which is slipping.

 

Stability Control keeps the vehicle from tipping over, and operates at highway speed (I don't think it is prgrammed by speeds, but there isn't much the car can do if you start tipping at slow speeds). It works by applying brakes to the wheels such that the vehicle does not tip over any further.

viet

Hi Kirstie_h (The host):

 

Buyers need to add $510 for destination charge in addition to the price you indicated above. Most dealerships are not willing to lower the asking price below the MSRP + destination charge. Many dealers mark up from $2K to $4K+. I have bought one HAH with NAVI. after extensive contacts with many dealerships so I know that for sure. My HAH has not been delivered yet. It is probably still on a ship on Pacific Ocean on the way from Japan to the U.S.

Kirstie_H

There's always a destination charge. The reason we don't list destination in our invoice pricing is because it can vary from area to area.

 

You may NOT be able to get below MSRP on this new vehicle, but it doesn't hurt to try, and knowing the invoice is a good bit of info to have at hand.

viet

The Honda dealership just notified me that my HAH will be delivered to me tomorrow 12/22 or 12/23. I will quickly report to you guys on its overall performance, my feeling, etc. The MPG and other technical stuff will be reported to you in a week or so after I finish at least 1 gas tank. I am going to have a very special Xmas present for the first time in my whole life that I bought it for myself. Is it ridiculous enough? I will continue to use the first-class "diapers" to "pamper" this fantastic HAH to enrich my fine collection of Accords. Cheer !

backy

Congratulations! And the best part is... no assembly required! (Just need to read the owners manual to figure out how all the toys work.)

viet

Hi Mr Backy,

 

Just a quick personal question. I guess you are a Vietnamese American or you were born here or were educated in this country. Please disregard my nosy question and consider as it never exists if you do not like it.

 

BTW, I were "forced" to go to the mall with my wife tonight. There are some high performance cars displayed in the mall such as Chevy Roadster(390HP), Audi (335HP) and the Ford 5000. I read the specs. Their V8 engines are so powerful but they do not have many great features except the Audi. The Audi V8 335HP is a real impressive one. Its sticker price is $55K.

backy

No, I am not a Vietnamese American, but I was born here (and educated here).

 

When you looked at all of those high-priced, high-powered cars (except the Ford 5000) last night, did you think to yourself, "What is the point?", since you will have 0-60 in under 7 seconds plus very good fuel economy and a lot of luxury for just a little more than a loaded Ford 5000, with your HAH?

bluemonkey666

Is that a future Ford car? I have heard of the Ford 500.

backy

It's like a Ford 500, but ten times better. ;-)

viet

The Ford 5000's MSRP is $28K. It looks great from outside but I am not quite confident with its engine performance and reliability. The Chevy Roadster 2 seaters, 390HP is so simple with not much "toys" except its powerful engine and a biggie box with cover in the rear. The Audi V8 335HP looks solid at $55K of MSRP. I read those specs carefully. The BMW 5 and 7 series may give buyers some "image" but the price tags are so high and the maintenance costs on the road are quite expensive. BMW offers 5 years of maintenance free but the BMW's MPG is not appealing to me.

 

One of my co-worker just bought a Prius at $27K with options. Price of a Prius with all 9(?) options is almost same as the HAH. I rather buy the HAH to have more HP.

falconone

Why is MORE HP a compelling reason to buy an HAH over a Prius? Are you RACING to work every day?

backy

I trust you have posted a similar message on all the other Town Hall discussions for vehicles that have more horsepower than a Prius.

 

This is a discussion about the HAH, not about "why do people need to own cars that can go 0-60 in under 7 seconds?" I'm sure there must be some discussion in Town Hall on that subject. If not, you could create one.

Kirstie_H

Yes, please stick to discussion that is specifically about the HAH.

adp3

"Why is MORE HP a compelling reason to buy an HAH over a Prius?" IS a question about the HAH.

 

Can someone please answer it? It's a good question? Why the Accord and not the Prius?

 

how do the emissions compare?

 

to be fair, I thik the best comparo to run is between the HAH and similairly powerful vehicles, with similar utility (i.e., same number of occupants, same size trunk, etc.)

 

if the HAH takes customers from those other vehicles, and puts them in a vehicle with better mpg and better emissions, it is good for the environment, even if it is not as good for the enviro. as the Prius

xcel

Hi Adp3:

 

___Let me try and put this into perspective although my thoughts would be considered an outlier …

 

___The AH is more then fast enough in most any situation but the high price premium, middling emissions, and middling FE make me really wonder if this will become a success? The Prius I and II are not quite fast enough for most. I say this owning an Insight 5-speed which when pushed is reasonably quick but it just doesn’t have the laid back performance as that of a Corolla LE, Civic EX, Accord I4, Camry I4, Ranger I4 etc. 0 - 60 in less then 9 seconds is a waste but others might think otherwise. 0 - 60 in 10 + seconds, isn’t fast enough for most although a minority of all owners/majority of hybrid owners think it is just fine?

 

___Good Luck

 

___Wayne R. Gerdes

gagrice

puts them in a vehicle with better mpg and better emissions, it is good for the environment, even if it is not as good for the enviro. as the Prius

 

I would think that argument could be used at any level of the vehicle spectrum. The Hummer2 & Suburban are environmentally better than the Toyota Land Cruiser & LX470. So if we can get those people to trade in their Land Cruiser for a Hummer2 it's a step in the right direction.

backy

The AH is more then fast enough in most any situation but the high price premium, middling emissions, and middling FE make me really wonder if this will become a success?

 

High price premium? The price premium of the HAH is about $3500--in the same ballpark as the premium for other hybrids. And please spare us and don't pull out your ad from that Chicago Honda dealer. I am talking about list prices here. Should the HAH have some trouble flying off the lots, then there's $3000 of markup over invoice for dealers to play with for discounts on the HAH and that Chicago dealer can offer the HAH for around $27,000, less if Honda starts giving dealers incentives like they do on the regular Accords.

 

Middling emissions? Compared to what, the AT-PZEV of cars like the Prius, or the emissions of the regular V6 Accord? What are the emissions of the HAH when it is stopped at a stoplight, ICE engine off, compared to the V6 Accord? What are the emissions of the HAH when it is cruising on 3 cylinders, compared to the regular V6 Accord? Is every vehicle that does not have the best possible emissions rating a failure?

 

Middling fuel economy? How does the fuel economy of the HAH compare to that of other V6-powered mid-sized cars, especially those with comparable performance to the HAH?

gagrice

High price premium? The price premium of the HAH is about $3500--in the same ballpark as the premium for other hybrids.

 

What you say and what you do are two different things. Lets do some comparison that is closer to home. I just did a TMV on the Elantra Hatchback. Loaded with all the goodies. They are selling for $15,582 in San Diego. That means you can buy two Elantras fully equipped for less than one fully equipped HAH. And have enough gas money to drive your two new Elantras for 21k miles. And you are only giving up 2 mpg and you are matching the HAH emissions at ULEV II. Which says to me, you are smarter than the average midsize car buyer...

 

To add insult to injury The Hyundai warranty is waaaaaay better than Honda. Didn't Hyundai beat out Honda on one of those reliability surveys?