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Comments
I sincerely would like to apologize to you as I did not read your previous message thoroughly and made an unintentionally wrong assumption/ statement about your wife's driving habit.
Also, I appreciate your feedback concerning the HAH I bought. I did perform some extensive researches on the HAH, the regular Accords and some other cars and finally decided to "play the HAH game". I do know the 2005 V6 has most amenities of the HAH.
Thanks.
"Tomorrow" stretched into almost 2 weeks. Apparently, because the car is so new, it took a long time to find someone who knew how to fix it. Finally, they replaced a computer and now it appears to be fine. (We are waiting to talk to the service guy to get details of what caused the problem.)
The dealer has told us that if we don't want this car, we can start over and wait for another hybrid. Or we can take this one now, and they will give us an extended warranty for free.
Anyone heard of a Check Engine light causing trouble with a new car?
https://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/login.asp?login=failed
My HAH is flawless. Its graphite color is gorgeous and shiny. I expect it should be a "rocket" after the break-in as Honda claims it.
I just watched a program about run-flat tires. I now wonder if the HAH's lack of a spare tire is because it has run-flats or just that Honda includes a quick repair kit for regular tires
Comments anyone ?
Simon....
What ever negative people says about the HAH, I still find very exciting to drive my HAH, a high performance car, with the MPG at least 30 miles in the city and 38 - 40+ MPG on highways. I have owned so many Hondas (autos and motorcyles) in the last 40 years so I am very confident with Honda's products. HAH, the Top Accord wins again adn again! Go with HONDA/ ACURA for top performance.
This morning I drove my 10 year old buddy Accord 95 EX I4 to the supermarket to do some grocery purchases. It still ran like a...DREAM. It has never wanted to stop running with its full force of 145HP. Amazingly ! It ran so smooth, quiet, no vibration. Last night, I drove it to a New Year Eve.'s party and it ran 80 miles/ hour with no vibration or anything else except a little bit road noise due to its...age.
I am going to drive my HAH to my uncle's home now to show off to him my new HAH at his request. He is considering to buy a Honda Element soon.
I have been very happy with my line of Accords. I do not have the needs to buy an Ody or an Element or a van. Besides, the HAH is my top choice as I have been insane with its rocketing 255HP (110 additional HP compared to my loyal buddy 95 EX).
Honestly, I have never disappointed with my Accords' performance as I have maintained them at top conditions. They just run and run. I have been waiting for the HAH for years since Honda introduced the Insight in 1999.
I was happy to pay MSRP to get that hot HAH. As I plan to keep it for a long time, therefore, investmentwise I am still OK.
Those Accords are tougher than I thought--no scratches even! Although I am at a loss to figure out how your wife's car managed to jump onto the hood of your HAH. You might want to have her car checked at the dealer. ;-)
if there's a problem with the 3.2l it would having too much torque for a FWD vehicle.
my accord V6 jumps off the line and doesn't need high rpm to drive with spunk though revving up the engine is hard to resist sometimes.
there's no comparison between GMs 3.5l/3.8l and honda's V6s be it at 1/10, 2/10 .... 10/10 speed.
yes, i have driven many miles with GM's 3.8l and have a reference for comparison.
GM should be applauded for the gas mileage they have achieved with the 3.5l but then you're not getting the same performance as with a honda V6 and you have to deal with the agriculture sounds from the pushrod.
i guess GM is just being stupid in having the lacrosse CXS propelled with their 3.6l OHC. never mind that it has more muscle at all speeds than the 3.8l.
I think the thrust of the debate was trying to get the most MPG out of a larger vehicle. The Acura with the 3.2L came up and according to some on the Acura board they get Lousy gas mileage. The consensus on that thread was that the Honda V6 engines do not get their torque at as low RPM as the GM V6 engines do. Therefore you do not get the gas mileage you get from a GM car of comparable size. I believe to get the same or slightly higher torque out of the Acura 3.2L engine you have to be almost 2000 rpm higher. That is not what I consider a good torque range. Then I would rather have the Honda diesel with the torque coming on at 2000 RPM.
Viet,
There are very positive people with negative things to say about the HAH.
Every vehicle on earth attracts negative opinion, even perfect cars like BMWs!
So Viet continue enjoying or should I say worshipping your car and dont care what those Honda Heathens have to say about your HAH.
You want great cargo space and seating capacity for six with minimum gas mileage? You want great mileage without paying the premium price for a hybrid?
Then how about the Honda FR-V. Unfortunately an FR-V is a bit too practical for us North Americans. In Europe, more practical buyers have high demand for such models, finding practicality, usability and features, with superior fuel economy and lower operating costs.
Or even better imagine a FR-V hybrid version! Wonder what the gas mileage would be on that vehicle(it would probably be worth paying a premium for hybrid)?
The NAVI. is very helpful to help me calculate (1) direct routes, (2) routes with maximized highways, (3) routes with less freeways, etc. All are voice-activated. The engine completely shuts off at every stop signs and immediately comes back on line when I release the brake. Seems like my HAH flies on the streets and over the hills effortlessly.
I have rarely driven any car over 70 miles/ hour but sometimes on tight schedules I have had to beat the clock and my other Accord V6 EX 200 HP gives me greatest joy because it literally "flies" on highways. Now, the HAH may be a "real rocket" as Honda Inc. has been proudly proclaiming.
I got 22.5 - 30+ MPG on my other V6 EX 2002 and it pretty much matches with the MPG indicated on sticker. For the HAH the MPGs are only digital readings for less than half a gas tank. When I finish the first gas tank I will do the manual MPG calculation to compare. Obviously, we do not want the 17 MPG as in the Honda Pilot.
Picked up my Desert mist HAH 12/29. I know nothing about Honda autos. I made my decision based on the quality and craftsmanship of my 04' Goldwing. I drive 40,000 miles a year on my job thus the reason for the Hybrid. If this car is half as good as my Goldwing it will be a successful purchase. I considered the Prius and Civic. Because of the amount of time I spend in the car a day the HAH was a must. Nothing against the Civic but need more room and luxury.
My first impressions are ditto to yours. My wife picked the color and I'm good with it as I love the interior.
I did not get the Nav system as I have a Garmin 2620 I use in my other cars and Goldwing.
I have put 160 miles and have observed the mileage to be averaging 22 to 32 depending on highway or city. These are less than accurate as I'm still enamored with the power and torque. As with my Goldwing, I drive it like I stole it. My wife drives it like she stole it and the cops are on her tail. I plan to ease up next week as I return to my sales job and do some serious miles. I have no doubt the MPG will climb considerably as I spend more hours on the freeways and the engine breaks in.
It is an obsolete blast to drive, I can't stay out of it, and I feel like Honda had me in mine when they built it. It has the same quality and attention to details as the Goldwing. I have owned some 15 motorcycles and by far the GW is the best one of all. So far the HAH seems to be built the same.
I will probably do about 2k this month and will advise on MPG. I have a meetings the end of the month or I would have more miles.
I have enjoyed your input and agree with your assessments.
It would be interesting to know if the problem is the motor creating more electrical noise than it should, or the radio being more sensitive than it should. Does a regular FM radio held near the car show the same problem?
Either way, I'd go "talk" to the dealer.
Thank you for your supportive input or somebody might think I work for Honda Marketing Dept. I used to own a small 50c Honda motorcyle back in 1965 (40 years ago). I had to admit Honda superior quality had attracted me since that time. I have never driven the Goldwing but I understand it is the most expensive Honda motorcycle.
Similarly to you, my wife picked the HAH's color but when I asked her to drive it home from the dealership on the Xmas Eve. 12/24/04 she got "scared" and did not dare to drive that brand-new "quiet road monster". But she was very pleased with the graphite color (may be it helps showing "some conservative status") and said she will chip in to pay extra $780 for the "forced-to- buy" accessories. The dealership admitted that Honda Inc. wants them to try harder to sell extra parts and accessories. I want to please her and not to make the "color war" with her as every time we buy new cars so I diverted myself to the second dealership while I was driving to the first dealership, 140 miles away from my home, to sign the purchase contract for the desert mist HAH with NAVI. I know I will have to pay everything for the car including the extra accessories but I planned to pick up the new car before Xmas so I had to act immediately.
I fully have agreed with you the HAH's quality is an absolute blast as the other Accords/ Honda motorcyles (NOT an "obsolete blast" as you inadvertently put it). I also agree with you that nothing inferior with the HCH but we need more room and luxury. I guess if you get the built-in NAVI. as well you will enjoy it much more because the NAVI. voice controls the audio system including XM, AM, FM radio, CD, heating/ AC systems, defrost, detailed, accurate road map...And it will definitely help you more with your traveling job.
My other 200K miles Accord passed the State required smog check easily. So I did not need to test drive the HAH before signing the purchase contract because I know its specifications in and out before it was shipped to San Diego port and was transported to Northern California by truck. It was flawless, so shiny, ready for me in the show room. It was displayed in the show room with a little red Xmas wreath on the hood to show off with customers. I quickly "stole" it and drove it away after 2 hours to complete the purchase. But that afternoon I was so tense while I was driving my brand-new HAH to my home. I knew I made a right decision to buy a HAH as I had been enjoyed very much my tiny 50cc Honda motorcycle I bought 40 years ago.
I do not have problem with the electric interference when turning on the FM channel. I must say the HAH's audio system is also a blast. On every new Honda model we can see something innovative, new and exciting such as auto windows roll back like the auto garage door to prevent accidents to kids, auto door lock, front sensor not to deploy airbag to kids under 25 lbs, anchors to keep kids' car seats in the back, digital MPG, name of song/ composer displayed on audio screen, etc.
My uncle is going to buy a new Honda Element too. Top Accord wins again and again! Bravo Honda ! Honda/ Acura makes my life a little bit more fun.
you should take into account the 5 speed automatic versus GM's 4 speed automatic too.
i'm sure TL drivers do rev their engines higher than drivers of GM vehicles but not to maintain the same acceleration but because it puts a smile on their face to do so. the TL is suppose to be somewhat of a sporty sedan afterall!
you're comparing a 270 hp engine to a 200 hp so is it fair expect comparable fuel economy? a V6 accord on the other hand does while providing better performance.
i prefer a engine with both good torque and horsepower and the honda diesel just doesn't have enough horsepower. for those who put a high priority on gas mileage then the honda diesel does makes sense as long it maintains good emissions. something i believe honda is working on and i don't think we'll see the diesel in our market unless they're successful.
I can forego a few horsepower for a combined 52.3 mpg plus 251 ft. lbs of torque at 2000 RPM. If Honda brought that Accord to the states. They would have to discount all the other Accords including the HAH to get rid of them. At least in the 45 states under EPA regulations. Just like VW & Mercedes they would sell every diesel they brought into the country, without having to go below MSRP.
The outcome: the Accord Diesel (using petroleum diesel) offers the lowest fuel consumption and the lowest CO2 emissions, even surpassing the Accord Hybrid.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/12/comparing_accor.html
___I am a proponent of the Euro Accord iCDTi but its emissions will not fly until Honda really performs some magic on its after treatment emissions HW. So what is next? Well the Mercury Meta-One of course!
___Beside the safety features that make most of our vehicles look like they were designed back in the 1920’s, the real impressive item I have read to date is in regards to the propulsion unit(s) and emissions.
___It uses a modified ~ 250 HP 2.7 L Diesel as is currently used in the European 206 HP/320 Ft-Lb’s of torque 2005 Jaguar S-Type along with an unknown size/cap Hybrid system to achieve somewhere in the neighborhood of 430 Ft.-Lb’s of torque. 0 - 60 in ~ 6.5 seconds should be the result ;-) Along with this monster powerful CI-ICE and Hybrid drive unit under the hood, it is a PZEV! Yes, the world’s first diesel PZEV! I believe it uses a UREA injected SCR-CAT and DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) to achieve what would be considered impossible in regards to diesel emissions. Ford is working w/ BP on a Biomass derived fuel (probably, Biodiesel :-D) which in terms of Foreign oil dependence as well as green house gas emissions could make this Automobile the one that kicks the US into high gear as far as a future based on crop production, not oil drilling.
___Rumor has it that this monster will achieve EPA estimates ~ 30% greater then the Ford Freestyle on which the platform is possibly based? If so, we are looking at one monster fast SUV/Crossover with performance topping just about anything available in the SUV market let alone the fact that it will achieve an estimated 26/35 EPA City/Highway. For many of us Hypermilers, you are looking at a 4,300 - 4,500 # SUV with every safety and amenity bell and whistle imaginable (or unimaginable if you prefer) that should hit 50 mpg out on the highway!
___Although I suspect it will retail in the neighborhood of $40 - $45,000, this is in line with what many purchase Lexus RX’s and Acura MDX’s for today. Personally, I can’t wait to get rid of the MDX Touring w/ RES for a Meta-One for the increased FE, lower emissions, and hopefully an automobile made here in Chicago Now it is only up to Ford to leave the exterior design alone (please don’t screw her up but the rear D-Pillar and rear end could use a tiny bit of work), integrate the Safety HW to the Ford owned Volvo standards, and the US as a whole to make Low Sulfur Diesel available today! If Germany is going to run on B30 (Diesel #2 w/ 30% Bio-diesel), the Meta-One may as well also.
___So what does this have to do with the AH? The Meta-One is larger in every dimension, has far more utility, is ~ as fast, has far lower emissions, will be far safer, all the while achieving possibly close to the AH’s FE. The only problem? About $10K more :-(
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Absolutely nothing.
This is a bubble waiting to explode! And when it explodes prices paid will go down. I heard the MSRP for the RX400h will be 52k---this makes the AH look like a compelling bargain!
BMW the perfect car!I know the imperfections--I own one(but would buy one again even with those Bangle curves) )
My point was once you claim that any car is perfect---you will attract a swarm of critics.
What is the "auto door lock" feature to which you refer. That was one of the safety devices in my 2000 VW Passat which I really miss in my HAH. Carjacking is a popular sport in this city. My wife has a sticky note on the dash of the Honda to remind her to lock the doors before she pulls out of the garage.
And that would mean, hybrid would have become the baseline option, so no premium would be involved, extra cost would be taken for granted like it is already on many of the features you get today (compared to the years past).
But speaking of gas savings, we seem to forget the people who truly care for the environment. They don’t necessary try to save $$$, but saving gasoline itself has a role to play in their decisions. People don’t buy top model so that they can recover the additional cost they could have saved by going for a stripped version.
In a few years the Prius 2 and the current HAH could be as obsolete as a Pentium 1 is today. I dont see such radical changes in the market for minivans(odyssey).
The day when HAH/Prius are comparable to Pentium 1 in a Centrino world, non-hybrids would be non-pentium versions.
People that TRULY care about the environment will sacrifice to save gas and pollute less. BOTH aspects are important. Not just emissions and not just fuel savings. When people that can afford to buy whatever vehicle they desire opt to buy a Prius, HCH or Insight. they are trying to do their best for the environment. A person that buys the HAH is saying I will do a little as long as I don't have to give up power, performance or luxury. So far it looks like the HAH has not met the mileage it promised and it is not as clean as some of the other Accords and many other cars available. So where is the caring for the environment aspect of purchasing an Accord Hybrid?
I’m not sure what Acura TL’s 3.2 has got to do with this thread, but your assumptions are based on wrong grounds. We can discuss it elsewhere if you so wish (start a new thread under News and Views if you wish to extend this conversation).
I'm not sure either. I just relayed what owners are saying about the Acura's lousy mileage. HP is not as needed for good mileage as torque is. Diesel has it gas does not.
When you give up your big V8 luxury car or your Suburban for a Prius, HCH, or Insight, let us know. Until then, you have no right to say anything about people who buy a HAH.
Did Castro get elected to office here in the USA? I will buy a new car when I feel like it. I am not going to put the added burden of pollution that is inherent with the manufacturing of a new vehicle, just to have the latest automotive gadget. It will take several years before the HAH will reach the lessor emissions of any of the cars I have. A third of the pollution over the lifetime cycle of a new hybrid vehicle (150k miles)is in the manufacturing. A hybrid is almost double the pollution of an ICE only vehicle. My 7 year old Suburban has probably polluted the environment less than the manufacturing process of the HAH. It will take several years to be cleaner. If the HAH lasts that long.
PS
If I were commuting to work I would have already bought one of them.
You’re completely off on this, a reason I suggested you to start a separate thread. I will contribute there.
Are you sure about the total pollution of the Suburban, including manufacturing, being less than the HAH?
___I could only find vague references of CARB emissions std.’s back to the 1997 LS400’s but it was rated a LEV just as today’s 05 Echo is. I do not know what year Gagrice’s LS is or if it came close to LEV levels but if it did, trading for a 2005 Echo would only reduce GHG’s, not SMOG related ones.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
In case of hybrids, let us not forget another factor. During idle stop, the emission rating would be like a ZEV. Not so with non-hybrid vehicles as they continue to burn gas and emit the produce.