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But the current 35 mpg design? No.
troy
That diesel accord 2.2 iCTDI Sport is only rated for 43 MPG US, which is not as high as the Civic Hybrid in the US, nor as high as the Jetta TDI.
The fact that they achieved 76.6 MPG on a 419 miles run is amazing - but I can assure you they were not "just driving it" to achieve that high of a number.
Remember that the Prius II driver did the 33 hour test got 85.7 mpg on a 900+ mile run for a car rated 60 mpg.
Honda knows the deal - they will get those cars to the US when the time is right for them.
Here are the specs for that Accord diesel:
http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/honda/honda-accord-2.2i-ctdi-spor- t-4dr.asp
One other reason that tends to be overlooked are the costs of introducing a diesel for Honda. Think of the costs involved in dealership training. This reason may sound trivial, but I know a friend who worked in Nissan and they were pondering about introducing Nissan diesels in Canada(diesels are more popular in Canada than the USA) . The whole idea was canned when they considered the costs.
In Honda's case there are probably enough expenses involves in servicing complex hybrids. Additional expenses involved with diesel, may cause Honda' reluctance.
Despite the above reason, I do agree with Gagrice--I think the demand for a reasonably priced Accord diesel would be surprisingly robust in N. America(especially in Canada) and hopefully Honda will reconsider(that would be the saddest day for prospective VW TDI sales)
Why not? That said, I had not seen any such tests prior to reading about it a few months ago.
And the gas mileage on their return trip from going 24 hours was an amazing 76.6 MPG.
The mileage you quote was for one of two Accord Diesels that participated in a 419 mile run for fuel economy. I remember reading about a similar long distance run for Honda Insight (around the time it was launched), accomplishing about 119 mpg.
How much would you like to relate these achievements to real life accomplishments?
No the HAH is not even in the same league as the Accord i-CDTI.
True. HAH is way too powerful to be. Let us compare when we can, apples to apples, right here in America. We may be a few years too early since Accord Diesel is not offered here.
The Accord i-CDTI would be a bigger seller by far than the HAH if the American public was given the choice.
Not necessarily. Accord LX would handily outsell all trims of Accord, diesel and hybrid included. Agreed?
Giving up performance for fuel economy may work only with low cost vehicles, and it won't in Accord.
How can you be so certain about the above statement! The Prius is not exactly a low cost machine and a basic hybrid 4 cylinder accord does not have to be as high cost as the current HAH.
It is quite possible a 4 cyl. hybrid Acccord would be a hotter seller than the current 6 cyl version.
If there was only 1 unit sold of a 4ycl hybird accord, I would be the owner(assuming it has a manual tranny). In fact I am sure such a Honda vehicle would lure a number of potential Prius owners.
Not sure if you have the LX V6 or 4 cylinder in mind. One sells under $20k & the V6 under $23k. If that is where the demographic lies the hybrid and diesel Accord would be much more expensive. So It stands to reason that more of the LX 4 cylinders would be sold. That is just a guess I don't really know. If the LX 4 banger is the best selling that kind of negates your earlier statement "giving up performance for fuel economy may work only with low cost vehicles, and it won't in Accord". Maybe we can find that list of "what the American driver considers most important" I think it lists 29 different items.
I agree with Dewey that the cost of training techs is very high. And may play a big part in the decision making process. Plus Honda is selling the diesels in Europe at a decent rate. It will be the first time they have made decent sales in Europe. Remember VW sells half of all the cars sold in Europe. I imagine service is better there than here where they only sold 320k cars last year.
Those are all true facts. The one you forgot is the HAH is a direct competition to the Accord diesel in Europe. The 43.3 MPG combined is 10 mpg more than the HAH. And as of today you have said the cars reporting are at about 30 mpg combined overall. That is about 30% less MPG than the diesel Accord. As far as performance the 50-75 mph is the one I use the most to pass on windy mountain roads. Using that 0-60 MPH, will only get you a ticket where I live.
My earlier post (to electrictroy) pertained to his choice of 85 HP i-DSI motor in Accord Hybrid. This is the same motor that goes into the lighter Honda Civic Hybrid. Now try to picture a $25K 3200 lb family sedan with 100 HP in the USA. And while it could get 45 mpg, it won’t be enough to “move” people.
It is quite possible a 4 cyl. hybrid Acccord would be a hotter seller than the current 6 cyl version
Cheaper models tend to outsell their more expensive counterparts. So that wouldn’t be anything new. People with lower budget will have an option though, and that’s not a bad idea.
That said, take a guess on mileage improvements with use of I-4 over V6 in hybrid Accord. I would say, about 10% in city and less on highway.
To continue discussing hybrid or diesel, let us do it in the other thread intended for the purpose. I've brought up comparison of Passat's 134 HP diesel (combined rating of 33 mpg) with Euro Accord's 140 HP diesel (somehow calculated rating of 43 mpg). Let me know what you feel about it (but in the intended thread, not here). I will see you there.
2nd tank=29.3mpg so far
this is mostly city driving with a small amount of highway although the highway driving is uphill through a mountain most of the time. it seems to have a lot to do with learning how to maximize your mpg just through the way you drive.
Also maybe you people arguing about the Accord diesel should start a thread about HAH vs accord diesel so you aren't wasting other people's time...this thread is about the HAH and people's experiences with it.
I suppose an Accord would feel cramped compared to a Suburban, or an Odyssey.
I myself love my Accords' leather seats. One may want to try seating on the Chrysler PT's front seats and will much appreciate the Accord's ones.
Next time you are in the Honda dealership, ask to sit in an Accord (any Accord) with a tan/ivory leather interior and see if it makes any difference.
I asked the finance guy at my dealership about the Honda Care refund if no claims filed. I know toyota does that with Lexus warranties. Are you sure about this? They looked at me like I was crazy.
Thanks-
fxtool
Yes. They have documents for you to sign and copies for you. It is 3 years Extended Warranty, $50 deductible for each claim. You may want to talk to the Finance Manager.
I talked to one of the finance guys, but not the manager who wrote my deal.
The best part of picking up your car in the rain is, the dealer owes me a detail!
Refer to the above article. Hybrids are definitely a hazard for the emergency crew after a crash! Crossing puddles are permissable!
Toyota and Honda equip their hybrids with switches that shut down the electrical units when a crash is detected. Electrical cables are heavily insulated and distinctively colored. And, Moore and Newport point out, emergency workers have long had to watch out for threats in conventional cars, such as the potential for gas tank explosions.
Hopefully this hasn't been posted before - apologies if it has.
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2418.shtml
Overall a positive review. The follow quotes are interesting:
" .... However, our drivers did complain about the Idle-stop system. Unlike most hybrids, which shut down only at a full stop, our Honda cuts out at about 2 miles-per-hour. As a result, the engine is constantly starting and stopping in slow bumper-to-bumper traffic."
".......Which might explain our test fuel economy. The EPA rates the Honda Accord Hybrid at 29 city/37 highway. Our mixed test loop returned 30 miles-per-gallon. Less than we hoped, but still about 15-percent better than our long-term Accord V6."
Any of the existing HAH owners care to comment about the apparent stop-start of the gas engine in slow traffic (concerns of long term wear-and-tear on parts). Also the achieved MPG (not instant-readout) - their's was 30mpg?
Signed...
Probably future HAH owner....
My V6 EX 2002 gives 22.5 MPG, sometimes 23 MGP mostly city driving.
My HAH gives 30 MPG mostly city driving for the first gas tank.
a- At 22.5 MPG, the increased MPG for city driving is 33.33%.
b- At 23.0 MPG, the increased MPG for city driving is 30.43%.
Hondamon reported 40 MPG on dash for highway drive. I got 36.5 MPG on dash during my very first 32 miles highway drive.
Hope this helps. Will report on the next fill-up as well.
I'm confident the MPH will increase as the car nears breakin.
Thank you to all who responded to my previous post months ago...your responses were helpful! I am planning on getting the new Honda Accord Hybrid soon. I would like to get your perspective on whether or not to pay for 1) the Extended Warrantee (7 years/100,000 miles) and 2) Paint/Fabric protection ("Finishing Touch") for the Accord Hybrid.
I've been told that the extended warrantee runs about $1900 and the paint/fabric protection runs $695. I looked at the overview of what is covered in the Extended Warrantee. It says that the following are covered, but also says the actual contract coverages can vary-- that this is just an overview: 1) Drivetrain (Engine, transmission, fuel injection system, and axles) 2) Electronics (Computers, electronic components, electrical system) 3) Chassis (Suspension, steering, and brake system) 4) Heating /Cooling (Air conditioning, heating system, cooling system) 5) Genuine Honda Accessories (Audio, cellular phone, navigational and security systems).
It says about what is excluded: "Exclusions include but are not limited to body parts, tires, maintenance items, glass, upholstery, trim, carpeting, and ornamentation".
I realize that these financial decisions are individual and people vary on them. But given your experience, and given that the Accord Hybrid is brand new, what factors would you suggest I consider in making these decisions? Would you be inclined to get the extended warrantee and fabric/paint protection? Any imput would be appreciated!
sincerely,
Craig
the 'extended warranty' is from honda? staying with the manufacturer makes the most sense with something like the hah, as opposed to aftermarket.
otoh, maybe honda will bend over backwards to keep you happy, even without a warranty. you could contact some other dealers about getting the same warranty. some even give you a price going through their websites(don't know about honda).
I skipped the paint/ leather protection but bought the Extended Warranty 6 years/ 80K Miles for $1080 which includes bumper to bumper protection and the (Honda) Motorists Club (e.g. towing services, forgetting the key inside, etc.). It means I have 3 more years worry free on top of standard 3 years/ 36K miles free warranty because the HAH has lot of electrical and electronic stuff in it to worry. $50 deductible for each claim. If I file no claim at end of the 6th year I get $1080 back in full. Of course, with the Net Present Value factor, my money will value less than that by the time I take back if I am lucky with a trouble-free HAH during 6 years. You may want to negotiate with the Finance Manager.
Welcome to the HAH Club. I love the idea of driving from San Jose to San Diego (CA) non-stop (about 600+ miles) with one or less than a gas tank (17.09 gallons). Remember the Honda/IBM navigation system is a smart toy which helps me navigate the HAH in shortest distances to save extra gas. It also controls the audio and the heat/ AC system. All are voice activated.
I think $1900 is a bit high as I paid $1280 but others have paid around $1000.
After a couple of call-backs, he reluctantly told me that the "all-in" bumper-to-bumper, 7 years, 100K, no deductible, roadside assistance, a rental car if needed etc etc (but I think not covering paint) warranty was $1895. He wouldn't tell me about any other variations e.g. $50 deductible, different duration/distances mentioned by Viet.
I assumed an extended warranty was from Honda USA (rather than a individual dealer) so would be the same cost for the same coverage. If I'm right, does anyone have the coverage/price info? I'd love to see it so I can insist on what I want and not be blind-sided into something else that suits the dealer better.
Around $1000 for coverage for all the "new-fangled" stuff (as well as regular mechanical coverage) would be worth considering. $2000 to cover stuff I don't need (roadside/$0 deductible/rental car) is not worth it to me.
On the question of paint coverage: My current car is an 8 year old black Civic 3Dr hatchback manual shift with 89K miles. It's been mostly un-garaged, and had a mixture intense sun and ice storms (not at the same time of course!
I agreed to buy it. When I got home and reviewed the (copied) documents they did show extended warranty for 6 years, refundable cost to me after 6 years, auto club... but nothing mentioned about "bumper to bumper warranty" as he verbally told me.
A lot of extended warranties are riddled with exceptions and disclaimers, some of which make the warranty essentially worthless.
Associated Press
DETROIT - America's "in" sedan and the world's first gas-electric hybrid sport utility vehicle were named North America's top vehicles Sunday at the North American International Auto Show.
The Chrysler 300 - which becomes the 300C when it's equipped with Chrysler's powerful Hemi V-8 engine - collected its latest honor as 2004 North American Car of the Year. Ford's new Escape hybrid SUV garnered the award as 2004 North American Truck of the Year.
The awards were announced during the first day of media previews at the auto show, one of the industry's most prestigious stages and home to 6,600 journalists from more than 60 countries for the next few days.
The honors have been given annually since 1994 by a group of about 50 full-time automotive journalists from the U.S. and Canada. They scrutinize each vehicle's design, safety, handling and innovations. The judges also consider driver satisfaction and value.
To be eligible, a vehicle must be substantially changed from the previous model or a completely new vehicle.
ON THE NET
North American International Auto Show, http://www.naias.com
Thanks in advance-
fxtool
It is interesting. I have written documents with the Finance Manager's signature on it which guarantees to refund to me at end of the 6th year if I file no claims. I plan to claim only on problems with the hybrid powertrain. Other minor issues will be taken care by myself. You may want to check with American Honda Finance Corp. May be dealerships have been granted some flexibilities to make some additional...bucks.
Also, today I drove my 10 years old Accord to visit a friend. In an abrupt braking to avoid hitting the guy in front of me in a crowded neighborhood town, my Accord did the braking real well. The guy behind me, a Corrola almost hit me. Thanks God. I love my old (buddy) Accord dearly. It does the brake job real well with its ABS brakes and now the electronic distributed brakes in newer Honda models. I was so happy to drive my old Accord on the highway. At 80 MPH it ran so smoothly and confidently with full power (145 HP) with no road noise or vibration. It was a complete satisfying experience. I feel I "have ...never got enough" with HP. It is a shame. I love the "VROOOOOM" when I start up the engine. My wife said I am so obsessed with my line of Accords.
the hah is an excellent idea, but to spend that more coin, plus 1-2k for an extended warranty because of worrying about new components, most drivers will never recoup the extra cost in fuel. plus, accords tend to be dead reliable in every way. Just a thought.
as for me, i'll jump on the hybrid wagon when it costs less, and offers a big enough difference in fuel consumption.
just checked msrp...
30,5k as opposed to 23k on a clearance 04 ex v6..
to get 8-10 mpg more...
plus ext warranty?
i could help myself and the environment more by insulating my home and lowering my thermostat 1 degree.
You could help the environment even more by getting the PZEV 4 cylinder Accord EX, and save yourself about 10 grand in the process. I hear the 4 banger Accord is a snappy little car.
If the current range of Hybrids doesn't sell well (because everyone is waiting for the "better" one they'll build next time), the manufacturers will conclude there really isn't a viable market. In this case they'll give up, go back to the gas-guzzling mentality and "better" model will never get built
Part of my thinking for getting the HAH as opposed to say, a non-hybrid accord, is to do-my-bit to encourage the manufacturers to keep moving forward. In the same way they didn't think safety was a selling point until they tried it, I think the same will be true for hybrid-ness (or other environmental friendliness) in the long term.
>>> i could help myself and the environment more by insulating my home
Or you could do both...
The Accord Hybrids sold at the clip of about 48 per day for the month of December - that's not bad, considering all the "anti Accord Hybrid" talk going on around here on this forum.
I wonder if Honda has stopped the bleeding yet. If that is all they built then we have no way of knowing how good the sales were. That is just a few more cars than the Bentley Arnage sold that month. I suppose if they don't sell good we will hear the same story. That is all Honda wanted to build and sell. I think a better message to send Honda is we don't like getting ripped by the dealers on premium cars. Paying MSRP is bad enough. Adding $3000 insult to injury is unacceptable. The last new car I bought in San Diego was 1967. They are always too high for me. They act like they have a captive audience.
Even with the intro of the HAH, Honda sold 11,000 less Accord's than in 2003, while Toyota sold 13,000 more Camry's in 2004. Maybe the bad transmissions and rattles are taking their toll on Accord.