I stand by those dates...the Kia should be on sale in January 2006 and according to sources the Entourage will be a 2007. Thanks seems more sensible--I doubt the Kia folks would want the Entourage released immediately following their model.
RE Spoiler...I have one that came on the van. Wasn't looking for one and they didn't charge me for it. Basically cosmetic. I don't think it keeps the window much cleaner...maybe a little less dust, but when it rains, the air swirl carries it onto the window.
No clue about the handicap program. Recommend you send an e-mail to Kia national customer service...avail on kia.com
BTW, 2006 promises more space interior. Mini vans offer a safe alternative to SUVs. Will be interesting to see whether sedans make a come back with gas prices up.
According to AutoWeek, you are correct about the new Sedona--"The redesigned Sedona minivan arrives in January in short- and long-wheelbase versions". However, while the Entourage will be a 2007 model, according to AutoWeek--"Hyundai's first minivan reaches dealers in the spring of 2006". It seemed surprising to me also that Hyundai would bring its minivan out so soon after the Sedona, although I guess domestic manufacturers will bring or have often brought out, for example, the Ford and Mercury versions of the same vehicle at the same time.
Guess we'll have to wait a little longer to see the pricing and actual features of the Sedona. Still worth the wait, though, based on comparison with the 2005.
But it's bad news - Hyundai has cancelled plans for the Entourage. They will build a 7 seat SUV instead with a 3.8l V6 and 6 speed auto, on a new platform.
that would be in keeping with the previous-gen Sedona's lacking a few key minivan segment features upon introduction back in MY 2002: power sliding doors, factory-installed rear DVD entertainment, etc. You'd think Kia could 'catch up with the Joneses' this time around but if they don't include a Nav option, many buyers will be crossing Sedona off their shopping lists based solely on that.
Including Me. Nav won't kill the deal since I drive many miles in a year and need a good value, but if it doesn't have Nav AND doesn't get good mileage, its bye-bye Sedona and Hello Odyssey.
what do you consider 'good' fuel economy for a minivan? Our Sedona gets 21-23mpg highway at 70-80mph . I consider that 'average.' Many Sedona owners are doing worse than this, but many are doing about the same.
jchan2, I'm not directing this at you specifically, but...
It rankles me how lazy our society has become. People who think they can't live without nav, rear DVD, power doors, power liftgates, backup detection systems, etc. These are features that our parents somehow managed to do without when they were driving. We can do the same. Sure, it's nice to have extra features that make things easier, faster, safer, etc. But people should have the proper perspective and realize these are not essential items. The engine is an essential item. So is the transmission. A 10" flip-down LCD screen with a DVD player is NOT an essential item.
Good gas mileage: The same or better than the 25MPG I average in my current Odyssey.
I can live without NAV, it's just a nice thing to have. Once again, its not a deal killer, but its useful for when you're travelling to unknown places.
My '03 Silhouette gets about 27 highway and 22 mixed driving.
I agree with you concerning the navigation and DVD systems. We have owned six minivans (first was a brand new '83 9 passenger Vanagon) since 1983. Our kids were 10 and 8 at that time. When we went anywhere we would actually TALK with the kids. We would point out interesting things along the way and any other topic of conversation. Know what? The kids grew up to be normal, healthy adults. Amzazing!
I do not share your opinion concerning the power doors and backup sonar. Both items are wonderfully convenient and add to both personal and vehicle safety.
God gave me the abilty to read a map and there is a compass in the van to add direction to my being lost.
I actually would like the Sonars, since my wife is a horrible backer and she will probably end up driving this anyways. (my wife agrees with me that we NEED backup sonars)
I've had Power Doors for 3 years now. It's a very nice feature actually.
The Odyssey doesn't offer sonars unless you get the Touring, but the EX-L NAV-RES has a backup camera, which is fine with my wife.
You can read maps if you have a good co-pilot, otherwise you have to pull over. Mine tends to sleep, so that is not an option.
The driver reading a map on a moving car is a scary thought I'd rather not picture at this moment. :surprise:
Need vs. want, I mean, we could all walk everywhere or go by horse or bicycle. But it's what you want that opens up your wallet and you should get it, else risk buyer's remorse and be upside down on a car loan.
I would consider a anything between 25-30mpg good....
I think you are confusing convenience with laziness. I am not sure that people are saying that they cannot live without some of these options (DVD, power sliding doors, nav, etc), but the fact of the matter is that if KIA wants to compete with the likes of Honda, and Toyota in the minivan segment, they will need to offer similar features. While you may not see the value in having NAV, or DVD many Americans do, and they will simply buy something else. Its all about choices. Just like Toyota and Honda, you do not have to purchase these options unless you want them, but that is your choice.
I actually own a NAV system, and it has made life a ton easier here in the metro DC area. In addition, me and the wife love a good road trip, and the NAV has not failed us yet in both navigating, and providing great insight into the nearest gas stations, restaurants, and tourist attractions. I will bet you that NAV will be a standard option on every vehicle over the next 5-10 years.
Points of interest are a biggie, you get the name of the next restaurant and even the phone number. With bluetooth it will go as far as dialing the number for you!
The minivan segment is a moving target. If you aim to match the current vans, in 2-3 years when yours comes out it will be 3 years behind, and that's if you did a perfect job matching the segment leaders!
Just to be clear, I stated my opinions because they are my opinions, NOT because I was attempting to make excuses for why Kia doesn't offer certain minivan features. I still think that things like power sliding doors are not necessary and I am not convinced they are actually safer than manually operated doors.
I suspect that very few GM minivans with the 3.4L 6 cylinder get 27mpg highway and 22mpg mixed. Those sound like excellent numbers, even for a weak 6 cyilinder. Folks who think 30mpg in a minivan is 'good' need to reevaluate. 30mpg in a minivan is outstanding and I'm not aware of any vans in the US market that can make that claim, either EPA or real-world.
Like I said, 27 highway, 22 mixed. I have no reason to make up numbers. The reason I come here is to read and post actual, honest information. When I bought my van in 2002 it had the best EPA mileage estimates. We know how inaccurate the EPA estimates can be. I never reset the mileage computer so I know the mileage reading is close to true over 50,000 miles.
I can actually pass 30 mpg sometimes with my first gen Ody. Wish they still brought it stateside - the current model is larger, more powerfull, and more efficient.
It is dissapointing that there are no efficient minivans right now - hope that starts to change. Hopefully the KIA will match the new Odys numbers (and maybe better them in actual driving)
I wasn't disputing your numbers, but I suspect that 27mpg is not the mean or average highway figure for your vehicle. Do you recall the EPA ratings on your '02 Silhouette?
I'm not sure how accurate your mileage computer is, but there is nothing more accurate than tracking gallons and miles over many fillups in a spreadsheet.
Trip computer read 28.1 MPG Average MPG for 1400 mile round trip...and the calculation dividing miles driven by gasoline consumed was 28.18 MPG. :shades: BTW, the 2002 T&C LX with 3.3L V6 was rated 18 City 24 Highway. I consider 28 MPG on a round trip to be good gas mileage so there ARE minivans built that have delivered good gas mileage. Of course, the DC minivans with 3.3L V6 are not considered high performance minivans by many people but for us, the 3.3L V6 provides an excellent compromise between performance and fuel economy.
28.1 is certainly good for a minivan, but I would still not call that efficient.
I would like to see something that tops 30 and is not quite so porky (the Odyssey now is about 4,800 lbs - 1,300 lbs heavier than the first generation)
I am dissapointed that Hyundai is making another SUV. It would have been nice if they made a slightly smaller minivan. Gas just keeps going up.
How high will it get? Why isn't there a public outcry like there was during the oil embargo when Jimmy Carter was President?? Why did the fuel guzzling monsters like the Hummer and Excursion get exempt from improving fuel economy? :sick: Based on pre-release data on the 2006 Sedona, Kia should be congratulated for corporate responsibility.
Sorry, should have been clearer.. I think 25-30mpg is considered good across all car segments, not just minivans.. I agree 30mpg in a minivan is outstanding, and we are not too far from getting there... Hybrid minivan anyone??? I will bet you that Honda and Toyota are already planning one. Gas prices here are hitting $3 a gallon, and I just read that due to the current situation in Louisiana, prices will most likely hit $4 per gallon soon...
Those prices will put a dent in everybody's wallet..
Kia was VERY SMART to increase the gas mileage while increasing the power for the 2006 Sedona. With the best warranty and the most features for the least money, it would not surprise me to see the Sedona sell in greater quantity than either the Sienna or Odyssey...if Kia has sufficient capacity to build all the 2006 Sedonas that can be sold. DaimlerChrysler now has a 3rd very serious competitor.
It is recommended, but I have an 02 Altima with the VQ engine and I have been using 89 octane almost exclusively with zero knocks or problems. Other Altima VQ owners use 87 as well with no reported issues. I have read several articles over the years that really make me question using premium fuel. In some cases experiments have shown that cars actually performed better with lower octane and that there was little to no difference with regards to MPG averages.
Infiniti recommends Premium (91+) for the 3.5VQ for optimal horsepower and fuel economy, but only 86 or Higher Octane is required.
If I can find a good deal, I go with the premium (like the other day I used a Shell V-Power coupon for $2 off for buying 10 gallons of gas). It's about a 50/50 split between pumping what some might say is the "good stuff" versus just plain ol' regular.
It's the Odyssey's shape thats dragging down its MPG numbers compared with the other two cars.
Then again, neither cars are as efficient as the Civic in the driveway.
I'm surprised that the 2006 Kia Sedona isn't available yet at dealerships. There's no mention of 2006 on the website. Does anyone know when official information will be released about the minivan, prices, options etc?
Came across the Kia Grand Carnival -and confirmed with Kia Motors customer service that it will be available in the U.S. for sale in mid 2006. It's basically the new Sedona but with a 11 seat configuration. I have included the link to the Korean website. With 4 kids I was going to do the 8 seat Odyssey but with all the options of a Touring at about 10K less....
Kia Unveils Premium Minivan
Kia Motors, South Korea’s second largest carmaker, yesterday unveiled a premium mini van, aiming to challenge the industry’s big guns, such as the Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna and Dodge Caravan.
Grand Carnival is the result of a 250 billion won ($240 million) investment over the past 26 months, and was engineered to match world-class vans in terms of driving technologies, convenience and safety features, the carmaker said.
Kia will export the vehicle to the United States in September and explore other markets next year in hopes of achieving annual sales of 200,000 units.
We’ve developed the Grand Carnival to target global mini van markets, and it surely stands over all existing models in South Korea in most technological aspects,’’ Hyundai-Kia Automotive Group chairman Chung Mong-koo said during a launch in Seoul.
``Kia applied its know-how and top technologies to manufacturing the Grand Carnival. We believe the car will open our export market wider.’’
Kia plans to sell 50,000 Grand Carnivals this year. Next year, its Korean sales are expected to reach 40,000 units, and overseas sales will be over 160,000 units, the company said.
The 11-seat Grand Carnival is a revamped version of the Carnival recreation vehicle, which was first introduced in 1998. New safety features include a variable rack stroke system and a vehicle dynamic control system, which are aimed at enhancing stability while driving. It also adopted an integrated memory system, which adjusts the seat for a driver automatically when the engine starts.
Kia officials said the vehicle’s 170-horsepower engine and state-of-the-art entertainment features are also some of the advantages for customers.
Owners of the Grand Carnival can enjoy a tax deduction for mini vans in South Korea. In 2008, when a new tax system is applied, Carnival owners will pay some 760,000 won less tax than the owners of sports utility vehicles with the same engine capacity, Kia officials said.
Will it have only 170 horsepower as indicated? That would be insufficient for most Americans and Canadians who have been spoiled by the much higher power of the Sienna, Odyssey, and 3.8L V6 in DC minivans.
hansienna, I did not ask but I assume it will have the new 3.8L 240HP that the smaller Sedona is going to have. I doubt they would put a smaller engine in the Grand Carnival. I bet this is some foreign conversion thing (170HP).
I was driving a Besta in France in 1997, the thing was so light, the WIND topped it over on the highway driving 55mph.. We had a triple roll over across 3 lanes and i didn't die... obviously. I'm holding out for the new Sedona, anyone knows the price range?
have preliminary MPG numbers on the next generation Sedona?
If its in the 26-28 MPG (Highway) range it'll be a serious look for me at 2006 closeout time...
Otherwise, I have my sights set on an Odyssey EX-L at the 2006 Honda Clearance, or a Sienna XLE at the Toyota Clearance.
I have the Ford Freestyle, GM Vans, Chrysler vans, and Ford vans on my list. The Buick Rendezvous, Toyota Highlander, and Acura MDX are distant 7th place finishers on the list.
Comments
No clue about the handicap program. Recommend you send an e-mail to Kia national customer service...avail on kia.com
BTW, 2006 promises more space interior. Mini vans offer a safe alternative to SUVs. Will be interesting to see whether sedans make a come back with gas prices up.
Guess we'll have to wait a little longer to see the pricing and actual features of the Sedona. Still worth the wait, though, based on comparison with the 2005.
I also found this on the net.
http://www.newswire1.net/NW2005/C_KIA_CA/KIA3001253_021005/
No more Entourage.
Source is Automotive News.
-juice
But does that mean we won't see NAV in a Korean van?
-juice
jchan2, I'm not directing this at you specifically, but...
It rankles me how lazy our society has become. People who think they can't live without nav, rear DVD, power doors, power liftgates, backup detection systems, etc. These are features that our parents somehow managed to do without when they were driving. We can do the same. Sure, it's nice to have extra features that make things easier, faster, safer, etc. But people should have the proper perspective and realize these are not essential items. The engine is an essential item. So is the transmission. A 10" flip-down LCD screen with a DVD player is NOT an essential item.
I can live without NAV, it's just a nice thing to have. Once again, its not a deal killer, but its useful for when you're travelling to unknown places.
I agree with you concerning the navigation and DVD systems. We have owned six minivans (first was a brand new '83 9 passenger Vanagon) since 1983. Our kids were 10 and 8 at that time. When we went anywhere we would actually TALK with the kids. We would point out interesting things along the way and any other topic of conversation. Know what? The kids grew up to be normal, healthy adults. Amzazing!
I do not share your opinion concerning the power doors and backup sonar. Both items are wonderfully convenient and add to both personal and vehicle safety.
God gave me the abilty to read a map and there is a compass in the van to add direction to my being lost.
I've had Power Doors for 3 years now. It's a very nice feature actually.
The Odyssey doesn't offer sonars unless you get the Touring, but the EX-L NAV-RES has a backup camera, which is fine with my wife.
The driver reading a map on a moving car is a scary thought I'd rather not picture at this moment. :surprise:
Need vs. want, I mean, we could all walk everywhere or go by horse or bicycle. But it's what you want that opens up your wallet and you should get it, else risk buyer's remorse and be upside down on a car loan.
-juice
I think you are confusing convenience with laziness. I am not sure that people are saying that they cannot live without some of these options (DVD, power sliding doors, nav, etc), but the fact of the matter is that if KIA wants to compete with the likes of Honda, and Toyota in the minivan segment, they will need to offer similar features. While you may not see the value in having NAV, or DVD many Americans do, and they will simply buy something else. Its all about choices. Just like Toyota and Honda, you do not have to purchase these options unless you want them, but that is your choice.
I actually own a NAV system, and it has made life a ton easier here in the metro DC area. In addition, me and the wife love a good road trip, and the NAV has not failed us yet in both navigating, and providing great insight into the nearest gas stations, restaurants, and tourist attractions. I will bet you that NAV will be a standard option on every vehicle over the next 5-10 years.
The minivan segment is a moving target. If you aim to match the current vans, in 2-3 years when yours comes out it will be 3 years behind, and that's if you did a perfect job matching the segment leaders!
-juice
I suspect that very few GM minivans with the 3.4L 6 cylinder get 27mpg highway and 22mpg mixed. Those sound like excellent numbers, even for a weak 6 cyilinder. Folks who think 30mpg in a minivan is 'good' need to reevaluate. 30mpg in a minivan is outstanding and I'm not aware of any vans in the US market that can make that claim, either EPA or real-world.
It is dissapointing that there are no efficient minivans right now - hope that starts to change. Hopefully the KIA will match the new Odys numbers (and maybe better them in actual driving)
I'm not sure how accurate your mileage computer is, but there is nothing more accurate than tracking gallons and miles over many fillups in a spreadsheet.
BTW, the 2002 T&C LX with 3.3L V6 was rated 18 City 24 Highway. I consider 28 MPG on a round trip to be good gas mileage so there ARE minivans built that have delivered good gas mileage.
Of course, the DC minivans with 3.3L V6 are not considered high performance minivans by many people but for us, the 3.3L V6 provides an excellent compromise between performance and fuel economy.
I would like to see something that tops 30 and is not quite so porky (the Odyssey now is about 4,800 lbs - 1,300 lbs heavier than the first generation)
I am dissapointed that Hyundai is making another SUV. It would have been nice if they made a slightly smaller minivan. Gas just keeps going up.
Why did the fuel guzzling monsters like the Hummer and Excursion get exempt from improving fuel economy? :sick:
Based on pre-release data on the 2006 Sedona, Kia should be congratulated for corporate responsibility.
Those prices will put a dent in everybody's wallet..
yes, gas here in Michigan spiked past $3 a gallon at many stations. I saw $3.299/gal for premium. Glad I nabbed a tankful at $2.529 yesterday!
With the best warranty and the most features for the least money, it would not surprise me to see the Sedona sell in greater quantity than either the Sienna or Odyssey...if Kia has sufficient capacity to build all the 2006 Sedonas that can be sold. DaimlerChrysler now has a 3rd very serious competitor.
$3.09 for a gallon of regular.
Makes me want to dump my 25 MPG Odyssey. Or at least leave it parked in the garage and take the 26 MPG (or higher) Infiniti I35.
The old Honda Civic has become a daily driver now.
-juice
It is recommended, but I have an 02 Altima with the VQ engine and I have been using 89 octane almost exclusively with zero knocks or problems. Other Altima VQ owners use 87 as well with no reported issues. I have read several articles over the years that really make me question using premium fuel. In some cases experiments have shown that cars actually performed better with lower octane and that there was little to no difference with regards to MPG averages.
-juice
If I can find a good deal, I go with the premium (like the other day I used a Shell V-Power coupon for $2 off for buying 10 gallons of gas). It's about a 50/50 split between pumping what some might say is the "good stuff" versus just plain ol' regular.
It's the Odyssey's shape thats dragging down its MPG numbers compared with the other two cars.
Then again, neither cars are as efficient as the Civic in the driveway.
I assume we should be very close to any new and official pics and infos.
Kia Unveils Premium Minivan
Kia Motors, South Korea’s second largest carmaker, yesterday unveiled a premium mini van, aiming to challenge the industry’s big guns, such as the Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna and Dodge Caravan.
Grand Carnival is the result of a 250 billion won ($240 million) investment over the past 26 months, and was engineered to match world-class vans in terms of driving technologies, convenience and safety features, the carmaker said.
Kia will export the vehicle to the United States in September and explore other markets next year in hopes of achieving annual sales of 200,000 units.
We’ve developed the Grand Carnival to target global mini van markets, and it surely stands over all existing models in South Korea in most technological aspects,’’ Hyundai-Kia Automotive Group chairman Chung Mong-koo said during a launch in Seoul.
``Kia applied its know-how and top technologies to manufacturing the Grand Carnival. We believe the car will open our export market wider.’’
Kia plans to sell 50,000 Grand Carnivals this year. Next year, its Korean sales are expected to reach 40,000 units, and overseas sales will be over 160,000 units, the company said.
The 11-seat Grand Carnival is a revamped version of the Carnival recreation vehicle, which was first introduced in 1998. New safety features include a variable rack stroke system and a vehicle dynamic control system, which are aimed at enhancing stability while driving. It also adopted an integrated memory system, which adjusts the seat for a driver automatically when the engine starts.
Kia officials said the vehicle’s 170-horsepower engine and state-of-the-art entertainment features are also some of the advantages for customers.
Owners of the Grand Carnival can enjoy a tax deduction for mini vans in South Korea. In 2008, when a new tax system is applied, Carnival owners will pay some 760,000 won less tax than the owners of sports utility vehicles with the same engine capacity, Kia officials said.
Source: Hankooki.com
http://grandcarnival.kia.co.kr/showroom/grandcarnival.html
That would be insufficient for most Americans and Canadians who have been spoiled by the much higher power of the Sienna, Odyssey, and 3.8L V6 in DC minivans.
I did not ask but I assume it will have the new 3.8L 240HP that the smaller Sedona is going to have. I doubt they would put a smaller engine in the Grand Carnival. I bet this is some foreign conversion thing (170HP).
I'm sure we'll see more than 170hp, as well. That might even be a diesel, who knows?
In Brazil they sell Bestas, tiny little vans with diesel engines that have big capacity. I doubt they'd sell well here, they don't look too safe.
-juice
If its in the 26-28 MPG (Highway) range it'll be a serious look for me at 2006 closeout time...
Otherwise, I have my sights set on an Odyssey EX-L at the 2006 Honda Clearance, or a Sienna XLE at the Toyota Clearance.
I have the Ford Freestyle, GM Vans, Chrysler vans, and Ford vans on my list. The Buick Rendezvous, Toyota Highlander, and Acura MDX are distant 7th place finishers on the list.
Though be aware that most people aren't getting that with their Odys. EPA is not applying well to the real-world.
-juice