I spotted a NEW (insert make/model) today!

fintail

It will make the HS redundant. CT offers virtually everything the HS does at a lower price, and isn't as boring looking.

ateixeira

Much better mileage, too. Remember, the CT gets the Prius' drivetrain, while the HS gets the Camry Hybrid's.

The big question is will Americans accept a hatchback Lexus?

texases

"The big question is will Americans accept a hatchback Lexus? "

They didn't before:

ateixeira

Yeah, wasn't the vast majority of those sedans?

The idea appealed to me, but it was such a small little wagon.

fintail

It has pseudo-sporty looks, where the HS is the ultimate "generic sedan", that might help.

I think it will go over better than the "sportcross"

anythngbutgm

IMO, it would have appealed to a few more enthusiasts if they

A) had actually advertised the damn thing
had one on the lots to show off
C) offered it with a manual tranny like the more popular sedan
D) gave it a Lexus-like interior instead of the cold, industrial one it ended up with.

I loved the idea of the Sportcross, it was points B and C that kept me from ever buying one. :sick:

Sadly, I feel the same way about the TSX wagon...

ateixeira

Here's a better interpretation of a sport cross:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/01/2012-mercedes-benz-c63-amg-estate-geneva-debu- t/

fintail

Hate the colors, like the car.

When I was at the AMG factory, I must have seen a dozen late model wagons hanging around - all too cool for this market. If I could find a nice colors W211 E63 wagon, I'd almost be tempted - just impossible to find not in black or silver (and with double digit sales each year, hard to find anyway)

fintail

Saw new Jetta x2 today, and some kind of newish Aston - I get them all mixed up, but it was the smaller one.

ateixeira

A bit too much going on at the front end, but I can overlook that for the engine and wagon format.

texases

" some kind of newish Aston - I get them all mixed up"

Isn't that the truth? I saw coverage of the Geneva show, new Astons all looked like each other and all the existing ones. That's gotta hurt somehow, if the cheapest one looks like the most expensive one...(excluding the ugly/wierd/inexplicable Cygnet, that is).

fintail

Sadly, we aint gonna see it here either way.

But we get winners like the Crosstour and Venza that nobody else gets, that makes it all better.

fintail

Cygnet = brand whoring.

I guess the Rapide is easy to distinguish too, the rest, all too similar for my eyes.

anythngbutgm

Actually the Cygnet was introduced to help out Astons (well um actually Consortium groups) CAFE scores. With nothing but V8's and V12's in your lineup, the penalties are huge.

A 4 cylinder Toyota engine that gets mileage in the 40's does great at offsetting the terrible mileage of the rest of their portfolio...

fintail

It could have been a little less cynical than a tiny Toyota with a new grille.

Really, kind of representative of what is left of the British auto industry.

ateixeira

we get winners like the Crosstour and Venza

If it makes you feel any better, the Outback is absolutely clobbering both of those in sales.

fintail

And so it should, I know what I'd pick if given the choice

The other two are almost offensive somehow, crazy how they came to be. Focus groups at work, no doubt.

texases

While I agree on the Crosstour, I've not understood the heat Toyota takes on the Venza. Pretty much a Ford Edge kind of vehicle, not nearly as offensive to me. I have no need for 3 rows, so 2 roomy rows with decent storage works for me.

fintail

It's just such a beige thing with an ugly front end and a weird name. Maybe a good RX alternative for the non-pretentious suburbanite anyway.

Those who drive them don't help the image either.

anythngbutgm

Those who drive them don't help the image either.

I have a pretty hot young woman, probably mid thirties down the street from me who drives one. Has a couple of kiddies (can't tell by looking at her! ) that she takes to school in it every morning. Heck, she certainly makes her beige workhorse look good!

I like the Venza myself, it's one of the more "daring" Toyota designs to come along in a while for them. It's a Camry wagon for this decade...

Maybe that's what they should have called it?

fintail

I wish they were like that here. Last one I remember seeing was driven by a "new" motorist going around a corner at about 4mph.

Indeed, it's a Camry wagon ...but one that doesn't have enough self confidence to be a wagon, so it pretends to be a SUV/van mix. Wanna get my respect? Make a Camry wagon with dual rear wipers again.

ateixeira

I like the overseas version better, I think it's called Mark X Zio, some strange name like that. It has a 3rd row and far less busy styling on the outside.

hoosiergrandad

.........what it is. Its a higher, wider , heavier , quieter , AWD Accord hatchback that'll take 3 booster seats in the back plus a couple of kid bikes and other junk, and go thru snow.....great highway cruiser. Some say its ugly, some think its cool. I prefer its drivability to that of the Venza. Haven't driven an Outback. So........have any of you guys put in seat time in all three?

fintail

Hmm, looked that up, looks like a Venza with a Corolla front end, weird. But less cluttered as you say.

fintail

I guess if I wanted all that and needed a Honda, I'd just go all the way and get an Odyssey. But I don't have any rats and don't haul a lot of junk, so I don't have to look into it, not complaining either :shades:

I guess even closer than a Venza is a Camry wagon, the Crosstour is the (NA) Accord wagon. We get the Euro Accord wagon, finally, in kind of a dumbed down form as the new Acura Sportwagon - haven't seen one here yet but I saw several Euro Accord wagons in Germany.

ateixeira

I saw the Crosstour but test drove an Odyssey. The former doesn't fit my needs or appeal to me, minus the AWD availability.

Similar experience at the Toyota dealer, checked out the Venza but drove the Sienna.

I've driven the Subie.

fintail

Saw a Juke today - looked like a very basic model, fresh plates, no plate frames. Windows were all down when parked at a gas station. Given Nissan's rental propensity of late...rental car?

stever

Some of the staffers apparently like it.

2011 Nissan Juke SL AWD: Who's Laughing Now? (Inside Line)

From the link, it sounds like sales are on target.

texases

What surprised me is the terrible mpgs they're getting: 21.3 mpg average!

This continues to make me question the wholesale switch to turbos we seem to be experiencing. They test well on the EPA cycle, but real-world experience seems to be much worse, at the expense (literally) of highly-stressed engines. CR has the 335i as 'much worse than average' for repairs, while the 328i is 'better than average', I think. Not a good sign.

andys120

The poor showings oof the 335i and the 135i on the FOR charts seems to have more to do with the high-pressure fuel pumps (HPFP) than the turbos or the engines themselves.

ateixeira

True, but why aren't the N/A engines affected? Don't they also use DI? Maybe fewer PSI in their HPFPs?

I saw a Juke this weekend - still haven't gotten used to them.

A small turbo like that will work hard all the time. Especially if they get the young buyer they market towards.

andys120

My understanding is that the normally aspirated Bimmers don't run such high pressure in their pumps.

angel53

This year a lot of Europeans who use the output turbo cars to increase their HP, not only that new cars now have a very sports body....wonderfull.

fintail

Saw a 4 door Mini...the brand is trying to be everything for everyone.

ateixeira

Maxi Mini. Those weigh, what, 3300 lbs? Mini?

fintail

That's more than a fintail, scary.

Saw 3x new Optima doing fleet service at ATL, along with a few new Explorers and Grand Cherokee

ateixeira

Hmm, getting different numbers, but 3252 here:

http://www.insideline.com/mini/countryman/2011/2011-mini-cooper-countryman-s-all- 4-full-test-and-video.html

ateixeira

Sedan with the nice big panoramic moonroof.

Wonder if that even kills a few convertible sales?

fintail

The coupe might

Saw a new Elantra today, rental. Also a newish Maserati Coupe.

fintail

Still kinda heavy, I wonder how it compares to a 1991 Accord or Camry. Mini?

ateixeira

And I find my NC Miata too heavy....

kyfdx

1991 Accords didn't have 180 hp....

stickguy

A 1991 Accord stick was ~2850-2900 #s. I bought a new 1991 Mazda 5 door stick, and that was only about 2700. Actually pretty sprightly with a 110HP/ 130 lb/ft engine.

fintail

3x new Optima today in Savannah GA, all rentals - noticed Budget paperwork on one . Also saw a CT on the highway.

fushigi

I saw a red Chevy Volt headed the opposite direction from me this afternoon. I'm fairly sure that Illinois is not yet in the zone for Volt sales so I'm not sure where this one came from.

texases

Saw a new X3 in the movie theater parking lot today. Looks good, much better than the last one to me. I'd pick it over the X5.

lemko

...black Jeep Grand Cherokee going north on Bingham Street near Robbins Avenue in NE Philly this morning.

ateixeira

Saw a new Explorer while driving home Friday, another while coming in today.

These are big and pricey, so I don't think they'll do the volume the old models did, but seems like they're off to a good start.

Also saw a Juke coming in. The tail lights look like boomerangs. I got out of the car at a light. Tossed it a couple of times, put it back, and the driver never even noticed. LOL

Another HS. Lots of hybrids here in DC.

ateixeira

You must live next door to the Korean Rental Car Test Center.

anythngbutgm

I saw quite a few HS hybrids over the weekend. No CT's yet but they have piqued my wifes interest for her next commuter car purchase.

Also, saw a couple of new Explorers and redesigned Edges. I still like the Edge more...

And a bunch of those goofy looking Nissan Jukes. My gosh, talk about covering the bases for blind spots. Not only to you get the poor rearward visibility from the downward sloping roofline, you also get the raised front end that probably has worse visibility over the nose than a mid seventies Ford LTD. :sick: