"I have seen a few Prius drivers actually drive normal though. "
Here in the Midwest a lot of Prii get flogged like rented mules. Don't know how many times I've been cruising on Interstates at 75 and had a Prius blow by me.
Actually, down here in San Diego, it is funny who the fastest drivers often are. I would say it's random, but tends to be a vehicle that shouldn't really be driving so fast.
Something like a old Corolla, an old domestic beater, or even more common, a BIG hulking SUV blowing by at 90 MPH.
Then again, LLC's tend to be those same types of vehicles.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Those people that insist on creating havoc and mayhem on the roads by driving slowest in the fast lane, thereby making the right side lanes the quickest and fastest.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
To be honest I never got why they were stereotyped as blocking the slow lanes, going super slow. Remember Al Gore Jr? He broke 100mph IIRC. Lemme look it up...
Odd - if you look at the rear bumper, it has this black strip that runs across. Same color and material goes over the fender flares.
Weird thing is that there is a painted white lower cover for the bumper. That's stupid - it will scratch easily, it's in the worst place possible. They should just have made the lower part of the bumper matte black like the rest of it.
I saw a first-gen Volvo S40 the other day, the one that was based on the Mitsubishi Carisma.
How funny, it was a Swedish brand, owned by Americans (Ford), based on a Japanese brand (Mitsu) who was part owned by Americans who were in turn owned by Germans (Daimler-Chrysler, IIRC), and built by Dutch (and Malaysians, and Thai, and South Africans!).
Yeah, the current S40 is based on the previous generation Focus platform.
I took a road trip from DC to NYC in a V50 wagon, turbo, stick shift. It was decent around town and at low speeds, but at higher speeds there was way too much road noise to wear a Volvo badge, and the back seat was cramped, even with only 3 of us in the car.
A grey 2012 Kia Optima parked next to me the other day and I was surprised at how good it looked, even better than in photos which make it look good but don't really do it justice. I think it looks better than it's Hyundai sibling which is a really hot seller but looks a bit overwrought to me as if the designers said, "there try to call this bland!"
The Sonata is a standout design but the Optima is a bit more subtle but if you look at it for a minute it really flows together and it's very sleek and modern. I took a peek at the interior which featured a very nice tight weave fabric and attractive stitching.
I could see a couple of downsides though. It's really gotten big, as in Accord/Malibu size which IMO is too big for a FWD sedan (not that anyone agrees w me on that).
They ignored the fact that the long sloping rear glass would accommodate a big hatch very nicely, vastly increasing the potential utility of the car without compromising the looks.
I think I read there's a Sonata/Optima wagon in the works, I hope they do it.
I agree. Both about the Optima being a looker, and better than the Sonata, and that "mid size" sedans have gotten way oversized. New Accord is a bloated beast IMO.
I recently thought the same thing about the Optima, got kind of an A7 vibe from the rear glass, which makes sense when you think about the designer there. Make it a hatch for a very small tooling fee, and sell more.
"Hyundai sibling which is a really hot seller but looks a bit overwrought to me as if the designers said, "there try to call this bland!" "
Sums it up perfectly. Swoopy for the sake of being swoopy, not a real design language IMO.
As do most folks. Do agree that this class of car needs to be made about 7/8 of it's current size...the Accord & Camry we rented were pretty big cars as I recall telling the wife...a bit too large for us as a dd.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Saw 2 new 9-5's this summer-both Dark Grey Aeros. One in Scarsdale & the other on the Garden State Pkwy. I love 'em, but wife's not impressed. There's a red Fiat 500 in the neighborhood, and I saw a beige one in Downtown Yonkers NY on Saturday. That sure looked like body colored metal on the dashboard-what's up with that? They're tiny, BTW.
kind of an A7 vibe from the rear glass, which makes sense when you think about the designer there
Inside as well, the Optima has a more driver-focused cockpit.
I test drove one - very nice, but not fun to drive. The steering is a bit numb (I have yet to find electric PS that I like), and the clutch and shifter were not rewarding in the way the Kia Sportage was. Surprising.
I do think it's the size issue. It's big and heavy, and this segment wants low NVH control, hence the isolated steering. I'm sure it's no worse than most others in this segment, actually better than the new Passat, but that's not saying much.
Overall I think the Optima serves its segment well, may as well get the automatic and recommend it to your aunt or uncle.
For a driver's car, we'll have to wait and see what they do with the Kia GT.
What I don't get is that Kia is supposed to be sportier than Hyundai, but when you look at, for instance, Rio vs. Accent, the Rio only puts a manual trans on the base model, while the Accent offers a manual across the board. And manuals on the smaller cars are actually entertaining, and feel better than the Optima's stick shift.
I realize 99.9% of cars are automatics nowadays but Kia needs to re-package their cars so that sportier models (not cheaper ones) come with manuals.
Two of a kind, Mini Clubman and Mini Countryman, one behind the other.
Also saw an E- ragtop this AM. It's perfect convertible weather and it was sealed up, what's up with that?
On Sunday saw a Lexus IS-C with not only the top down, but also passengers in the back seat! That's a first, and it was an adult, not a child. I didn't think that was possible given the size.
Another pair, a Corolla and Corolla S, the S with a rear spoiler that keeps the back end from lifting at 180mph. Clearly.
For something the size and mass of an Optima, who wants a stick anyway? I am surprised it even exists, and isn't a unicorn like Accord and Camry manuals have become.
But the GT (looks like they are dropping the weird name, good for them) will be even bigger and heavier...maybe they need to import some German suspension tuners too.
I have yet to see an IS-C with the top down, and I see a few of them in this area. Heck, a Lexus with the sunroof open is probably pretty rare.
There are many somewhat more expensive mainstream cars (A4, C, 3er etc) where you can get manual. I think it's more of a size thing. Not many want a larger car with a stick - I don't. Really, for gridlock commuting after being at work for 10 hours, I don't want to row my own at all.
Saw 2 new Chargers within 5 mins of each other this morning, both rentals.
Keep your Miata , as far as I'm concerned no two-seat roadster should ever have FWD. For BMW to offer one is blasphemy. I don't think the car guys are in charge at BMW any more.
Too crossover-ish to me, what would it be, like X1 junior?
Oh yeah, when I was in Germany and took a pic of my lovely F11 5er touring rental, a 1er hatch was lurking in the background. I like the 2 door version even more for weirdness, but this would be a fun thing to have if equipped properly:
I'd take a conventional car over a psuedo off-roader, but I'm not an errant woman or a goofball yuppie, so I am a little different :shades:
That market can only grow so much...so with BMW we will have one normal SUV (X5), small SUV (X3), baby/pretend SUV (X1), hideous douchemobile(X6), result of bad drugs (5er GT), and now smaller versions of that for the 3 and 1? It has to run out sometime. Makes megalomaniacal MB product planning look downright lovable.
It would be nice if the X6 was axed. Are there that many satellite children and crooked Wall St types out there buying cars? Tooling can't have been cheap, I wonder what the break even point is for that thing.
It'll be impossible to be uglier than the X6 anyway, but the customer base might be just as deplorable.
I don't think anyone has figured out the formula yet, I think a small/light lithium battery with short bursts of assist for passing or even moving off the line could work.
Comments
I'm in San Diego CA.
Most hybrids on the freeway make me smash my accelerator pedal down and let them breathe in my exhaust fumes out my custom exhaust system upgrade.
I have seen a few Prius drivers actually drive normal though.
Here in the Midwest a lot of Prii get flogged like rented mules. Don't know how many times I've been cruising on Interstates at 75 and had a Prius blow by me.
It's like they have something to prove.. :confuse:
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Actually, down here in San Diego, it is funny who the fastest drivers often are. I would say it's random, but tends to be a vehicle that shouldn't really be driving so fast.
Something like a old Corolla, an old domestic beater, or even more common, a BIG hulking SUV blowing by at 90 MPH.
Then again, LLC's tend to be those same types of vehicles.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Those people that insist on creating havoc and mayhem on the roads by driving slowest in the fast lane, thereby making the right side lanes the quickest and fastest.
To be honest I never got why they were stereotyped as blocking the slow lanes, going super slow. Remember Al Gore Jr? He broke 100mph IIRC. Lemme look it up...
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20044628,00.html
Yep, 100+, maybe he was tired of his dad's lectures and drove away as fast as he could, LOL.
Odd - if you look at the rear bumper, it has this black strip that runs across. Same color and material goes over the fender flares.
Weird thing is that there is a painted white lower cover for the bumper. That's stupid - it will scratch easily, it's in the worst place possible. They should just have made the lower part of the bumper matte black like the rest of it.
Dumb.
Does look nice though.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
How funny, it was a Swedish brand, owned by Americans (Ford), based on a Japanese brand (Mitsu) who was part owned by Americans who were in turn owned by Germans (Daimler-Chrysler, IIRC), and built by Dutch (and Malaysians, and Thai, and South Africans!).
Talk about GLOBAL!
Volvo has been doing some fleet business lately, I have seen rental S60 and S80 lately, and I have heard of XC60 in fleets too.
I took a road trip from DC to NYC in a V50 wagon, turbo, stick shift. It was decent around town and at low speeds, but at higher speeds there was way too much road noise to wear a Volvo badge, and the back seat was cramped, even with only 3 of us in the car.
the current (well, recently departed) model never seemed like a "real" volvo to me. just did not have the required thrones!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The Sonata is a standout design but the Optima is a bit more subtle but if you look at it for a minute it really flows together and it's very sleek and modern. I took a peek at the interior which featured a very nice tight weave fabric and attractive stitching.
I could see a couple of downsides though. It's really gotten big, as in Accord/Malibu size which IMO is too big for a FWD sedan (not that anyone agrees w me on that).
They ignored the fact that the long sloping rear glass would accommodate a big hatch very nicely, vastly increasing the potential utility of the car without compromising the looks.
I think I read there's a Sonata/Optima wagon in the works, I hope they do it.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
"Hyundai sibling which is a really hot seller but looks a bit overwrought to me as if the designers said, "there try to call this bland!" "
Sums it up perfectly. Swoopy for the sake of being swoopy, not a real design language IMO.
Don't forget that "size" is based on interior volume. External size has no bearing on its classification.
New Accord is a bloated beast IMO.
IIRC, it's rated as full size car now.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
There's a red Fiat 500 in the neighborhood, and I saw a beige one in Downtown Yonkers NY on Saturday. That sure looked like body colored metal on the dashboard-what's up with that? They're tiny, BTW.
Body colors on the dash was a geature of the original Fiat 500 and a number of other cars of the era.
It's tiny by our standards but nearly twice the size of the 1957 original.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Inside as well, the Optima has a more driver-focused cockpit.
I test drove one - very nice, but not fun to drive. The steering is a bit numb (I have yet to find electric PS that I like), and the clutch and shifter were not rewarding in the way the Kia Sportage was. Surprising.
I do think it's the size issue. It's big and heavy, and this segment wants low NVH control, hence the isolated steering. I'm sure it's no worse than most others in this segment, actually better than the new Passat, but that's not saying much.
Overall I think the Optima serves its segment well, may as well get the automatic and recommend it to your aunt or uncle.
For a driver's car, we'll have to wait and see what they do with the Kia GT.
What I don't get is that Kia is supposed to be sportier than Hyundai, but when you look at, for instance, Rio vs. Accent, the Rio only puts a manual trans on the base model, while the Accent offers a manual across the board. And manuals on the smaller cars are actually entertaining, and feel better than the Optima's stick shift.
I realize 99.9% of cars are automatics nowadays but Kia needs to re-package their cars so that sportier models (not cheaper ones) come with manuals.
Also saw an E- ragtop this AM. It's perfect convertible weather and it was sealed up, what's up with that?
On Sunday saw a Lexus IS-C with not only the top down, but also passengers in the back seat! That's a first, and it was an adult, not a child. I didn't think that was possible given the size.
Another pair, a Corolla and Corolla S, the S with a rear spoiler that keeps the back end from lifting at 180mph. Clearly.
But the GT (looks like they are dropping the weird name, good for them) will be even bigger and heavier...maybe they need to import some German suspension tuners too.
I have yet to see an IS-C with the top down, and I see a few of them in this area. Heck, a Lexus with the sunroof open is probably pretty rare.
I just don't like to see the stick shift associated with low price alone.
Saw 2 new Chargers within 5 mins of each other this morning, both rentals.
That's fair - I do prefer smaller cars. I think the Cruze is getting too big, LOL.
For any kind of distance or leisurely driving, I like E/5er size, although the latter is kind of pushing it now. My E55 seems just the right size.
ROFL!
Isn't that really just a handle?
:P
I drove a couple of 'em and it definitely didn't seem as involving as I remember the 5 from a couple of gens back.
I wonder when is the new Bimmer 1 due? I'd like to see a 5 door hatch come here, hopefully not as homely as the current euro-spec one.
Also saw a black Panamera, its least-bad color.
I doubt we will see any 1er hatch - I kind of like the dorky 2 and 4 door hatch models. 123d would probably be a fun thing.
I don't like the 1 coupe because it's still dorky (too long/tall), yet it's hard to get in to a tight back seat.
I don't like the 1er coupe either, for the reason you mention - weird proportions.
The rumour is that we're getting the FWD 1 Series Gran Turismo - which I sort of like.
Some how it still looks better than the 1 coupe does now.
Will that drop top have a back seat?
Nope - that's the Z2 FWD roadster.
I knew the Z2 was coming, but I'll keep my Miata, thanks. That looks stubby, more Suzuki Cappuccino than anything.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Oh yeah, when I was in Germany and took a pic of my lovely F11 5er touring rental, a 1er hatch was lurking in the background. I like the 2 door version even more for weirdness, but this would be a fun thing to have if equipped properly:
Perhaps for you but it's a growing market so it makes sense to be there.
I think it's supposed to be like the 5 GT and the forthcoming 3 GT.
Funny thing about that class, for me it's pass/fail, no in between. The Audi A7 gets a pass, but Panamera and 5 GT fail. They're just awkward.
That market can only grow so much...so with BMW we will have one normal SUV (X5), small SUV (X3), baby/pretend SUV (X1), hideous douchemobile(X6), result of bad drugs (5er GT), and now smaller versions of that for the 3 and 1? It has to run out sometime. Makes megalomaniacal MB product planning look downright lovable.
Benz is coming out with an X6 competitor, though, ugh.
It'll be impossible to be uglier than the X6 anyway, but the customer base might be just as deplorable.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/19/bmw-x6-active-hybrid-cancelled-with-a-quickne- ss/
I don't think anyone has figured out the formula yet, I think a small/light lithium battery with short bursts of assist for passing or even moving off the line could work.
400 lb battery pack? Not so much.
7er active hybrid exists somehow though, S is still made too...but they are small volume models. But their days have to be numbered.