...and I'd like to ask why? Does anyone really believe Europe is in better shape than the US? Which country would you pick in a world crisis? Then there is the even stronger Yen despite Japan having a higher percentage of debt to GDP than the US? I can't help but wonder if some curency manipulation is taking place in the markets? Nah, you can trust those Wall Street and London traders!
I couldn't agree more...who will it be to finally bring it crashing down? Italy, perhaps? Their economy is big enough to have that sort of impact, unlike Greece.
Good subcompacts are crucial, IMHO, because they introduce people to a brand. If they're happy with a Kia Rio, they will get an Optima next, maybe later a Veredus if they are successful (that's the upcoming big RWD sedan).
My Ford Escort experience taught me that light is fun, hatchbacks offer utility, and DOHC produces good bang for the buck (in terms of fuel costs). Unfortunately, the trim pieces falling off also taught me to avoid Ford next time around.
Ford's bad service reinforced that, too. I had rust on the fuel filler neck, and their solution? Free undercoating. Not even close...
Speaking of which, that's where Kia ought to focus next. Last time I walked in to a Kia dealership it was polyester suits and stereotypically bad customer service.
As a kid, growing up in Brazil, I dreamed of moving to America for the opportunity it offered.
My kids probably dream of ... moving to Brazil for all the opportunity it offers.
LOL
True, though. They have more oil than they know what to do with. More ethanol than they know what to do with. Big growth and even more potential growth. Strong Mercosul bonds. Natural resources and plentiful labor.
My Ford Escort experience taught me that light is fun, hatchbacks offer utility, and DOHC produces good bang for the buck (in terms of fuel costs). Unfortunately, the trim pieces falling off also taught me to avoid Ford next time around.
Ford's bad service reinforced that, too. I had rust on the fuel filler neck, and their solution? Free undercoating. Not even close...
Aw c'mon juice. Would you still avoid a Ford today because of an Escort you owned in college? That would be like me avoiding Subaru because of the awful Justy I had.
My kids probably dream of ... moving to Brazil for all the opportunity it offers...True, though. They have more oil than they know what to do with. More ethanol than they know what to do with. Big growth and even more potential growth. Strong Mercosul bonds. Natural resources and plentiful labor.
But unfortunately a small middle class, a government that can be rife with corruption, a burgeoning poverty crisis...or so say my relatives there.
Big RWD Kia...good luck with that. I wonder what amount of buyers work their way up a brand compared to those who always buy a certain size and just shop around.
Undercoating once the car is already beginning to rust, funny. The Hyun-Kia dealers around here are pretty much the same as what you describe - not that Honyota doesn't have its own issues (usually high pressure tactics), but still.
Regarding Brazil, it too has more than its fair share of problems, as you know of course...including huge socio-economic issues that make ours pale in comparison, high crime, corruption and law enforcement sector abuse that makes our authorities look like angels, and so on. Opportunity if you are in the top 5% maybe...sadly, it is slowly becoming like that here. I'm hoping for a nice Euro collapse, cheap travel will result, maybe some cheaper cars too.
My experience wasn't much better with a Mustang, though that was also a while ago.
That Ford dealer closed, Ourisman in Bethesda. Can't say I shed a tear over that one, though the lot sits empty to this day. I wish another brand would pop up there.
I did take my brother to test drive an Escape, though we both ranked it dead last.
I would consider an Explorer EcoBoost if they added AWD, to replace the minivan down the road.
Focus 5 door would be on my short list for small cars, too. Fiesta is a little too small and my co-worker already replaced her trans. Convertible Mustang is interesting, too. Fusion is dated and the Mercury clone I test drove was boring even in a boring segment. Taurus SHO is too big, but I'd rent one, sure. Flex and Edge are heavy, I'd rather see the new Kuga.
F150 EcoBoost would be my pickup choice, too. Tundra is too plasticky, Silverado seems dates, and Dodge markets to neanderthals too much for my tastes.
To be fair, I did say "avoid Ford next time around", and I've owned 3 new cars since. So sure, I'd give them another shot, but previous experience would give them a small handicap.
Crime is a big issue, in certain locations at least. Cost of living is high. My brother paid $100,000R for a CR-V, about $61k US dollars!
The lower middle class is growing - the government offers subsidies for families to keep their kids in school and credit for everyone and their maid to buy cars and motorcycles.
Genesis DNA ain't a bad basis to start from, plus it will be sportier.
I wonder what amount of buyers work their way up a brand
Kia has a great opportunity - they have some of the youngest buyers in the industry. Keep them happy and the odds of a repeat purchase are pretty good. Offer an (almost) full lineup to keep them there.
Undercoating once the car is already beginning to rust, funny
I think the US has continued to ignore the potential of Latin America. Washington is blindfolded by its over focus on Europe, Asia and the Middle East.
Brazil has tremendous potential. However, it needs to expand its middle class if its going to successfully reduce its crime problems (I'm afraid many politicians in this country don't understand that eroding our middle class is going to increase our crime problems). I think Brazil's biggest issue near term though is the risk of hyper-inflation. I think China is just waking up to this potential scourge (think Nixonomics and Jimmy Carter).
I experienced hyper-inflation there, so I know what you mean. We would exchange maybe $100 at a time, because 3 days later your dollar was worth more. I remember at one point getting 20,000 to 1 exchange.
Man, they went from Cruzeiro, to Cruzado, Novo Cruzado, then back to Cruzeiro, then Real. Each time they'd lop off three zeros off the end.
Real has been consistently strong, though. I doubt we'll see hyper inflation there again, given the strength of exports.
Maybe the Kia variant will be a somewhat-copy of an F10 5er :shades:
Are young people, who often don't like cars or driving much at all, going to be brand loyal? I suppose such a strategy is low risk for Kia, but I don't know what it will actually being to the bottom line. They still need to work on image more than anything else IMO, while keeping the value component alive in the face of declining real incomes and stagnant economies - pricing identical to the J3 won't make you win. And as you say, the dealer network needs renovation.
Looks more like an A7, sort of, but very Kia, like a big Optima.
Tone down the concept crap and it could actually be handsome, better than the 5 GT for certain.
Kia has a shot, again if the dealers are up to par. You get a 40mpg Rio, then move up to a sedan but you still want 35mpg or so - bingo, Optima. 33mpg even with the turbo. The Genesis V6 still manages 29mpg even with 333hp, so the Veredus would be a logical step up from there.
Loyalty ain't what it used to be, but I think Kia will fare better than most.
Of course it looks like a bizarre parallel universe Audi, remember who does the styling now. They had to outsource it to gain some cred, the classic old KDM style isn't embraced by many non-Korean nationals :shades: . I'll be curious to see how it works as a real production vehicle, if it actually does hit the road. Weird name too, I wonder if it will stick...what the hell does that even mean, the word looks funny to me. It will be too much for 90% of current dealers, at the least.
The only real loyal non-premium people I personally know are Honda and Toyota fans...even my old school friend who loves Chevrolet went out and bought a Mazda.
Like the wheels, some proportions, trim, interior, stance...yeah.
I see they are on a horsey kick.
HyunKia may be the new Honyota, but I haven't seen the feverish loyalty and obsession just yet. Both also made a number of legitimate enthusiast cars at one time, will be interesting to see if their replacements can do likewise. Kia also needs an image boost to get some brand equity, and a classier dealer system.
Hyundai Owner Loyalty Speeds Past Honda, Replaces Toyota to Take No. 1 Spot
The significant part is not that they simply beat Toyota, it's that they did so without a pickup. That's an automatic loss if a customer needs something like that.
I don't think it would impact car prices terribly much - they are selling as many now as ever even at these prices. It sure would help what must be some tight margins, though.
Growth numbers are easier when you are coming from nothing, and FINALLY have some competent and mostly credible products. I guess bailouts and federal coddling can work after all :shades:
I actually only dismiss them at the upper end of the market, for the toaster set, they are there.
2nd year continued growth means it sold more than the same (new) model. Sales are growing strong for the 3rd year in a row, Sonata's been out for a while now...
Oh, man, that would be great. I should buy an old beater and just leave it there to rust.
My wife used to say she wouldn't buy a Kia because of the snob factor, but enough people have peeved her that now she wants to get a car that will irk them.
She had a rental Kia while the car was in for a PZEV-related emissions recall, and I think she drove around with her tongue sticking out at people.
Comments
...and I'd like to ask why? Does anyone really believe Europe is in better shape than the US? Which country would you pick in a world crisis? Then there is the even stronger Yen despite Japan having a higher percentage of debt to GDP than the US? I can't help but wonder if some curency manipulation is taking place in the markets? Nah, you can trust those Wall Street and London traders!
I couldn't agree more...who will it be to finally bring it crashing down? Italy, perhaps? Their economy is big enough to have that sort of impact, unlike Greece.
Good subcompacts are crucial, IMHO, because they introduce people to a brand. If they're happy with a Kia Rio, they will get an Optima next, maybe later a Veredus if they are successful (that's the upcoming big RWD sedan).
My Ford Escort experience taught me that light is fun, hatchbacks offer utility, and DOHC produces good bang for the buck (in terms of fuel costs). Unfortunately, the trim pieces falling off also taught me to avoid Ford next time around.
Ford's bad service reinforced that, too. I had rust on the fuel filler neck, and their solution? Free undercoating. Not even close...
Speaking of which, that's where Kia ought to focus next. Last time I walked in to a Kia dealership it was polyester suits and stereotypically bad customer service.
As a kid, growing up in Brazil, I dreamed of moving to America for the opportunity it offered.
My kids probably dream of ... moving to Brazil for all the opportunity it offers.
LOL
True, though. They have more oil than they know what to do with. More ethanol than they know what to do with. Big growth and even more potential growth. Strong Mercosul bonds. Natural resources and plentiful labor.
I'd retire there if I could afford it!
Ford's bad service reinforced that, too. I had rust on the fuel filler neck, and their solution? Free undercoating. Not even close...
Aw c'mon juice. Would you still avoid a Ford today because of an Escort you owned in college? That would be like me avoiding Subaru because of the awful Justy I had.
But unfortunately a small middle class, a government that can be rife with corruption, a burgeoning poverty crisis...or so say my relatives there.
There are positives and negatives everywhere.
I still avoid Ford, because of a Mustang II that I bought new in 1977!
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Undercoating once the car is already beginning to rust, funny. The Hyun-Kia dealers around here are pretty much the same as what you describe - not that Honyota doesn't have its own issues (usually high pressure tactics), but still.
Regarding Brazil, it too has more than its fair share of problems, as you know of course...including huge socio-economic issues that make ours pale in comparison, high crime, corruption and law enforcement sector abuse that makes our authorities look like angels, and so on. Opportunity if you are in the top 5% maybe...sadly, it is slowly becoming like that here. I'm hoping for a nice Euro collapse, cheap travel will result, maybe some cheaper cars too.
That Ford dealer closed, Ourisman in Bethesda. Can't say I shed a tear over that one, though the lot sits empty to this day. I wish another brand would pop up there.
I did take my brother to test drive an Escape, though we both ranked it dead last.
I would consider an Explorer EcoBoost if they added AWD, to replace the minivan down the road.
Focus 5 door would be on my short list for small cars, too. Fiesta is a little too small and my co-worker already replaced her trans. Convertible Mustang is interesting, too. Fusion is dated and the Mercury clone I test drove was boring even in a boring segment. Taurus SHO is too big, but I'd rent one, sure. Flex and Edge are heavy, I'd rather see the new Kuga.
F150 EcoBoost would be my pickup choice, too. Tundra is too plasticky, Silverado seems dates, and Dodge markets to neanderthals too much for my tastes.
To be fair, I did say "avoid Ford next time around", and I've owned 3 new cars since. So sure, I'd give them another shot, but previous experience would give them a small handicap.
The lower middle class is growing - the government offers subsidies for families to keep their kids in school and credit for everyone and their maid to buy cars and motorcycles.
Genesis DNA ain't a bad basis to start from, plus it will be sportier.
I wonder what amount of buyers work their way up a brand
Kia has a great opportunity - they have some of the youngest buyers in the industry. Keep them happy and the odds of a repeat purchase are pretty good. Offer an (almost) full lineup to keep them there.
Undercoating once the car is already beginning to rust, funny
Seal in the rust, baby!
Brazil has tremendous potential. However, it needs to expand its middle class if its going to successfully reduce its crime problems (I'm afraid many politicians in this country don't understand that eroding our middle class is going to increase our crime problems). I think Brazil's biggest issue near term though is the risk of hyper-inflation. I think China is just waking up to this potential scourge (think Nixonomics and Jimmy Carter).
Man, they went from Cruzeiro, to Cruzado, Novo Cruzado, then back to Cruzeiro, then Real. Each time they'd lop off three zeros off the end.
Real has been consistently strong, though. I doubt we'll see hyper inflation there again, given the strength of exports.
My problem now? The dollar ain't worth crap.
Got any you don't want? Send em over... :P
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Are young people, who often don't like cars or driving much at all, going to be brand loyal? I suppose such a strategy is low risk for Kia, but I don't know what it will actually being to the bottom line. They still need to work on image more than anything else IMO, while keeping the value component alive in the face of declining real incomes and stagnant economies - pricing identical to the J3 won't make you win. And as you say, the dealer network needs renovation.
Looks more like an A7, sort of, but very Kia, like a big Optima.
Tone down the concept crap and it could actually be handsome, better than the 5 GT for certain.
Kia has a shot, again if the dealers are up to par. You get a 40mpg Rio, then move up to a sedan but you still want 35mpg or so - bingo, Optima. 33mpg even with the turbo. The Genesis V6 still manages 29mpg even with 333hp, so the Veredus would be a logical step up from there.
Loyalty ain't what it used to be, but I think Kia will fare better than most.
Again - IF they fix the dealers. Big if.
Of course they're certified lead-foots, but that turbo does seem to have an appetite for gas.
I just watched this Motorweek episode last night on my DVR:
http://www.motorweek.org/reviews/road_tests/2011_kia_sportage_sx_turbo
We averaged 25.0 miles per gallon of regular, or about the same as the less spirited standard engine
Same engine, so I'm sure it would do much better in normal driving.
For kicks, not direct competitors, but other turbo crossovers in their care got:
20.1mpg on premium in the X3
21mpg on premium with their RDX
22.4mpg on premium with the Forester XT
20mpg on premium with the Mazda CX7
Only the Forester came close. Newer CX7 turbos are tuned for regular gas.
A happy Rio owner will buy that Sportage, not the others.
The only real loyal non-premium people I personally know are Honda and Toyota fans...even my old school friend who loves Chevrolet went out and bought a Mazda.
From wiki...
Noun
verēdus (genitive verēdī); m, third declension
A fast or light breed of horse; courier's horse; hunter.
Precisely. Kia/Hyundai is the new Honda/Toyota.
Remember those makes made big strides during OPEC crises I and II. All Kia needs is another gas price spike...
I see they are on a horsey kick.
HyunKia may be the new Honyota, but I haven't seen the feverish loyalty and obsession just yet. Both also made a number of legitimate enthusiast cars at one time, will be interesting to see if their replacements can do likewise. Kia also needs an image boost to get some brand equity, and a classier dealer system.
http://mediaroom.kbb.com/kelley-blue-book-hyundai-owner-loyalty-speeds-past-hond- a-replaces-toyota-take-no-1-spot
Hyundai Owner Loyalty Speeds Past Honda, Replaces Toyota to Take No. 1 Spot
The significant part is not that they simply beat Toyota, it's that they did so without a pickup. That's an automatic loss if a customer needs something like that.
IMO, buyers today are less loyal now than in the past, as there are more decent choices in the market.
Imagine this! "The new Mercedes-Benz E-Class is $5K lower than the Kia Optima too...!" Maybe I can get Heineken for less than Milwaukee's Best too?
I think you dismiss them too readily.
I actually only dismiss them at the upper end of the market, for the toaster set, they are there.
But they keep growing and remember they have the best loyalty rates so more people are staying.
It's not like they have an 80% rate with everyone else having 20%...marginal differences.
And again, for toasters, they are doing fine.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I see one in my garage every day!!
Ford only made about 100K units for 2011. It's not like the old days of 400K Explorers being sold.
First year of a redesign.
2nd year continued growth means it sold more than the same (new) model. Sales are growing strong for the 3rd year in a row, Sonata's been out for a while now...
Saw a black G class, which actually may have come in handy in the torrential rains we got.
Also a new Odyssey.
I couldn't bare to look at the rest, looked like a new car parking lot.
And I'm sure the other parents appreciated your restraint! :P
A number of the fleet models I see seem at least moderately equipped...maybe by putting nice models in fleets, it also lures people into the showroom.
I can see the headlines: "Naked man arrested in middle school parking lot. Film at 11."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
At one point both the CIA and FBI directors lived in my zip code.
This is a public school, too. Imagine a private school like Landon or Gonzaga...or Georgetown Prep!
Actually, though, true story, I cut my own grass, so a guy comes up and asks how much I charge to cut grass! :lemon:
I told him he couldn't afford me.
You need to start parking the Miata up on the lawn, too.
My wife used to say she wouldn't buy a Kia because of the snob factor, but enough people have peeved her that now she wants to get a car that will irk them.
She had a rental Kia while the car was in for a PZEV-related emissions recall, and I think she drove around with her tongue sticking out at people.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/01-02_Kia_Rio_Cinco.jpg
The sticker would earn tasteless points.
Schreyer has the touch of God, no? Look how much nicer they look now.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ciUw2DXrIHE/TXENRWmJmMI/AAAAAAAAJa8/d-yWElJd8- wk/s640/Kia-Rio-2012-2.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/08/kia-rwd-concepts-name-revealed-in-newly-leake- d-images/
Doesn't look anywhere near production-ready, though.