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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    For an upcoming article, one of our editors is looking to correspond with women executives about what they drive – or wish they did – and why. If you’ve got an opinion, please email Joanne Helperin, using “execs” in the subject line, at


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    Share your vehicle reviews

  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    October Sales:

    E: 5,011
    5: 4,229
    STS: 2,308
    RL: 1,310
    GS: 651
    A6: 534
    M45: 157

    *Note that the GS, A6, and M are not the next-generation models.
  • E and 5 are doing well as usual. STS and RL sales look promising. Sales of the older models are depressing.
  • Where did you get the October Sales?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    E must be Mercedes only strong car at the moment, considering their huge sales and profit slump lately.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Individual press releases stating sales numbers are released by each manufacturer from typically the 1st to the 3rd of the month. You can find them on and then search for the Company. This will give you the press release that stats current month figures, as well as YTD and prior year numbers.
  • Thank you so much.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371 is also a good source
  • Check out my post (#4646) in the Acura RL forum for some bad news about the Audi A6 and its reliability.

    Racer_X: Audi A6 vs Acura RL?

    - Racer_X
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Its no secret that the previous A6 was a terrible car when it came to reliability. CR not only doesnt recommend the car, but they list it as a "risk" when used car shopping. Also in the PA\NJ lemon law website, the '03 A6 made it all the way to the top ten for most lemon law cases. This is after most of the A6's problems were supposedly fixed. You had a turbo, right? Volkswagen + turbo = repair shop. Though normally aspirated Volkswagen products tend to make it into the shop quite a bit as well. Might I suggest a Lexus? :)
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289

    Can you post a link to the NJ/PA Lemon law website?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Sure can.

    Looks like the A6 is way down this year, but congrats to A4 for making the top 3!
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ........ Where's the Hyundai/Kia's ...? .. there's only a few thousand of those bad boys that go through the auctions with the "MBB/NW" sticker plastered all over their windshield .....

  • I'm looking for input/opinions from anybody else who decided between the RL and the A6 and why. I'm torn between the two...but it seems to be "little things" that are upsetting me (lack of height adjustment on passenger seat and fold down rear seat in Acura, or less technology in the Audi). For the record, my immediate family has owned nothing but Audis for the last 20 years, but they seem to be getting progressively less reliable; everyone I know with a Japanese car praises their reliabliity.
  • I traded in a 2001 BMW 530i for a 2005 Acura RL. I test drove an Audi A6 4.2 before deciding on the RL. The A6 was very nice inside but the handling would have been a step down from the 530i. The suspension felt stiff and over a non-smooth road allowed every bump to be felt.The reliability of the Audi is also questionable. The RL handling was not a step down from the BMW but was different and better in some ways (e.g., in a high speed turn). It should also be more reliable than the Audi. I have over 1500 miles on the RL and have no regrets about my car choice.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    If you want the car to be dependable, I would stick with Acura. The A6 has a nasty reliability history (even for an Audi), and they've gone down in recent years, not up. The Acura will be faster than the A6 3.2, and cost significantly less than the A6 4.2. Its AWD system is, sorry Audi guys, but SH-AWD is better than Audi's torsen Quattro system.
  • My cousin and I test drove the RL and A6 back to back yesterday. His comment about the RL said it all "very nice accord!". The RLreminded me of the old Mitsubishi's with every kind of bell and wistle, but no substance. The 300 hp engine was also nothing to write home about. I have no doubt that the RL will be more reliable than the Audi, but as for a luxury car, the a6 seemed a much better pick all around.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I have to agree somewhat that the RL is not what I had hoped it would be. It has plenty of substance, but no flash. Imagine if Acura had waited until Q1 '06 to launch, and Infiniti and Lexus had already launched their new models. I wonder if anyone would even notice.
  • My wife an i were very impressed with the m45. I see the 06' is scheduled to be re-styled, etc. Where are the 05's?

    I have read posts with reference to $7k manufacturer to dealer marketing rebates that have dwindled to $4k currenlty. Are the rebates being applied to Invoice (like the Nissan Titan i just purchased)? What prices are possible with this intriging car that seems very much in transition?

    Many Thanks
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I would strongly suggest you wait for the new car. Its not just a reskinning, the entire thing is all new. The outgoing car is built on the Q45's rather sloppy platform, with the Q45's ugly "minivan" dash and controls. The new car is built on a stretched version of the G35's platform that is even stronger than before. The new car should be world class, possibly the best weapon Japan has against BMW 5 and Audi A6. The old car was not. Its only a few years old, but sales were absolutely anemic. Here's some pictures of old vs. new:


  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371 6/sort/1/size/medium/cat/6246/page/

    I think the interior of the new Avalon is very nice. Kinda reminds me of a more flattened 2006 M35/45 dash.
  • I'm pretty sure there are no 2005 M45s. The 2006 is due to go on sale Feb. 28, 2005.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I agree. One thing though, did you notice that Avalon's gauge cluster is literally a dead ringer for the Acura TSX?

    I remember reading on C&D's website that I35 and M45 were killed for 2005. Thats not uncommon to skip a model year. I was rather surprised that Lexus bothered to make an '05 GS. I guess because the new one isnt coming until I think the end of March, but still, thats an awfully short run for the '05 GS, and it has to be a really tough sell for dealers.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I currently drive a 2002 BMW with limited front legroom. I am 6'2". I am so tired of sitting in luxury performance cars and being disappointed with the legroom situation. Is there anyone out there who knows several recent or upcoming models in the luxury performance category that I will be able to test drive with generous (at least 44 inches or more) front legroom? The 2006 Lexus GS? The 2006 Infiniti M? I will be leasing in August, 2005.
    Thank you.
  • rwoodsrwoods Posts: 129
    I purchased an '04 Lexus GS430 with all the goodies on May 3rd for $50,000. It includes Nav,Levinson, summer tires, spoiler and XM satellite radio. The dealer knock $5,000 off the sticker and gave me 3.95% financing for 60 months. I'm very very satisfied with this car. I was between this and the LS430 which was about 12-14,000 more. My only quibble with the GS 430 is the ride is a little rough on poor roads of which Long Island has a few. But on the open road it is perfect. This is my first V8 engine and I really enjoy the smooth, powerful torque along with great passing power. The interior is very luxurious. I can really appreciate the Lexus after spending a couple of weeks with my new '05 Subaru Outback XT Ltd wagon I recently purchased. The Subie is very utilitarian for traveling with my pet but upon returning the the Lexus GS I remembered what luxury and power were all about.
  • mtjohnmtjohn Posts: 34
    I am 6'2" and own a 2001 530ia SP and I had the same issue with leg room. I always felt that I needed at least another inch or more to get comfortable. The good news (if yours is a 530) is that there is a clip in the track behind the drivers seat that you can remove with a screwdriver or needle-nose pliers (it just pops out--not sure if there was one on each side). It will give you at least another two inches of legroom. For me it made all the difference.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I think it's more useful to quote combined legroom rather than just front leg room. Manufacturer #1 can quote 44 front/ 35 back, and manufacturer #2 can quote 42 front / 39 back. #2 has obviously has more room. In any case, these are the figures for combined legroom.

    2006 M: 81.5
    STS: 80.9
    RL: 78.7
    A6: 78.2
    5: 77.5
    E: 77.5
    2006 GS: ?

    Looks like the M or STS may be the car for you.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The 2006 M has 44.2 inches of front legroom.

    The 2002 5 series has 41.7 inches of front legroom.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Thanks a lot folks for your input on the legroom issue. I went to the auto show in Tampa recently and was disappointed with so many luxury cars. The 530i had me very cramped, jrock65. Even the LS 430 which claims 44" seemed a bit stingy. When they claim 44", does this take into account maximum seat travel backward? I can't wait to try the new M-may be a godsend-great performance and reliability!
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Hey thanks anyway, mtjohn, but the car is a 330 on a lease with less than a year to go. Rather than try and tinker with the seat which I'm sure BMW Financial Services would frown on, I have vowed to do my homework next time and test drive as many vehicles as I can so this doesn't happen again. I owned a 1993 325 and just assumed the legroom would be about the same or better in a 2002 330. Well, after signing a 3 year lease, I was totally dismayed at how much less seat travel there was in the new car and also at how much less comfortable the seat was. Should have tested it. Never would have leased it. Now I can go more upscale and from what others have said in this forum, the 2006 M45 just might be the one. I will definitely test it for myself when it comes out.
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