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Comments
-juice
-juice
Rocky
07' G-35 to be one bad to the bone automoble that is refitted with a premium interior and enough technology to go 12 rounds with the best. I guess we will see what Acura does to counter punch Infiniti also.
I for some reason love this segment and am licking my watery chops.
Rocky
I don't know if that's any different from other variable valve turbos.
I had read that they are adjusting the packages on the 2007 Jettas...I think that for the most part the invoice prices per content are going to remain pretty similar -- one odd thing that VW has been doing lately is varying the amount of space between MSRP and invoice on cars from the same range.
Rocky
Honda has only announced a price RANGE officially for the RDX: $30,000 to $37,000. I am assuming they will hit the low end for the base model. Figure no more than $32K for that one, more for packages with "gadgetology", as Rocky likes to put it! ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
CX7 was priced lower than expected, and now they're selling at MSRP or in some cases even higher! Remember the Acura TL from the late 90s? I'm sure Acura dealers would not mind profit margins like those again.
carlisimo: interesting. Can't wait to drive one.
heel2toe: certainly, Subaru struggles to move away from the "Inexpensive and Built to Stay That Way" brand image. Ironic that an effective ad campaign can come back to haunt you. They can't break the $30k price barrier without people freaking out about it, no matter how good the vehicle.
The same folks don't blink at a Jaguar X-type costing $40 grand, even though I'd argue Legacy GT spec.B is better in every way.
Honda has the edge because they sell a seperate luxury brand, Acura. That allows for two distinct identities.
-juice
As I wrote above, the only unique (or at least interesting) feature for the Acura turbo is the way they engineered the valve. The hinge for the valve is typically exposed to the intense heat of the exhaust gases. Honda designed their inlet valve with the hinge hidden away from those gases... thus increasing durability and longevity.
I'm not an expert on turbos, but, all in all, this looks like a nice little upgrade. It is not a revolutionary change.
When Honda released their first in-house diesel, they created an engine that won awards and caused a quick reality check from other manufacturers. Unless Honda still has some tricks up their sleeves, this new turbo is nice, but not of the same caliber.
-juice
Rocky
Is that the engine that went in the 5 door hatch? I'd take one of those as my city car any day, very nice. I bet it would be too pricey here, though.
Let's see the new clean diesel they're promising for next year.
-juice
I think the clean diesel is just going to be a re-tuned version of the current 2.2L design.
-juice
It isn't just the twincharger models -- the 2.0T makes 200 hp and 207 ft-lbs at 1800 rpms. Not only is the engine supposedly understated, but with a DSG automatic it returns 25 city and 31 highway in the Jetta and those figures are also supposedly understated.
We wound up not buying the car because of my wife's sensitive back/neck, but the 2.0T/DSG combo is very very impressive, particularly for the fuel economy.
According to this, there is a 2.2 liter turbodiesel. Performance specs are about the same as the 1.8 liter gas VTEC naturally aspirated Si model. For what it's worth, What Car prefers the diesel.
Well the reason the CX-7 is going for MSRP or higher currently is because it hasn;t been on the market that long. In my opinion once supply meets demans I'm sure the Cx-7 can be had at a favorable price(a little over invoice.)
Remember the Acura TL from the late 90s? I'm sure Acura dealers would not mind profit margins like those again.
What TL from the late 90's the 96-98 or the 99-03 model?
-juice
Rocky
They do ... its just not in a regular production car.
Will we see it in a regular production car? My guess is, unless gas prices drop again, no.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Type-R engine It had a 8700 redline I think. The Mazda RX-7 doesn't count with it's 9k redline. It reminds me of my dryer out of balance. :P
Rocky
Doesn't the S2000 have a very high redline? But all of these cars (s2k, rx7, integra) have very low torque and not all that spectacular mileage. I mean, the S2k has less HP and torque than my Accord's V6, yet gets worse mileage. Same goes for the RX7.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I don't really get the complaints about torque. It'll do 0-60 in less than six seconds, so it's not slow and it won't get outrun by a lot of torquier cars. And the high redline means the gears are proportionally tighter (since shift points are generally at the same mph for any car). So if the engine itself has the same torque as a Civic, the S2000 as a package has 1.5x the torque of a Civic thanks to its gearing.
Considering that drag racing or commuting isn't the S2000's mission, I'd say it's fine. (Though commuting IS the Civic's mission, and the S2000 is still torquier.)
Rocky
The S2k can get away with low torque due to being lightweight. Put that engine in an Accord or TL and you are at the back of the pack. Oh, and let's not forget, even in a lightweight car, to get a low torque engine to zip you to 60 mph in sportscar-like time, you need to rev the heck out of it and dump the clutch. Again, I'm not complaining, nor am I criticizing, just stating the facts. I also think the S2k is fine (i would have bought one if i could have fit in it).
I gotta wonder why Honda doesn't put its 3.0 v6 in an S2k. Sure, it would lose some of its balance, but it would probably eat up the mustang GT, while getting mileage in the low-30s.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
"Now that's my kind of Ride ! :shades:
Rocky
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
A 2-liter V8 with a flat-plane crank could hit 10,000 rpm without much trouble, but then you'd have to find something suitable to put it in. Civic is too heavy these days and I don't think it would fit in a Fit.
The NSX had a high revving V6. But even a cheaper engine would be too expensive in Japan and Europe, where displacement is taxed and is just isn't expected as much as it is here. Torque just isn't that big a deal outside of our car culture, and not a big deal to the people that the S2000 was designed for. Fans of Honda's racing heritage (motorcycles and Formula 1) live by low-displacement and high revs.
Case in point... Europe still gets the 9,000rpm 2.0L engine rather than our 2.2L. That was Honda's concession to our market and that's probably as far as they'll go on this particular car.
When Honda America celebrates some anniversary with a roadster (if they're still making fun cars by then), I'm sure it'll be a better fit for a lot of us.
And nothing wrong with a rotary, they're quite smooth actually. However, they do burn oil and lack low-end torque.
-juice
So when is Honda bringing out its first rotary?! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
P.S.
Speaking of the Integra Type-R with it's 8700 rpm redline, couldn't they make a engine like that with a couple of turbo's and use it in the TL ? :shades: That would even out the balance of the car wouldn't it while giving it expected performance ? :shades:
Japanese automaker's next North American vehicle factory will create up to 1,500 jobs.
Honda Motor Co. will build a sixth North American auto plant in southeastern Indiana to keep pace with rising demand for its vehicles, sources familiar with the plan told The Detroit News on Tuesday.
Honda is expected to outline the project today in Greensburg, Ind., in a stark illustration of the diverging fortunes of the leading U.S. and Japanese automakers.
While Honda and Toyota Motor Corp. are scouting for sites to build manufacturing facilities in North America, General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. are closing plants and slashing jobs after losing a steady stream of customers to foreign-based rivals.
Several states, including Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois and Ohio, vied for the new Honda plant.
The automaker announced last month that it would invest $665 million to expand its production capacity in North America, including around $400 million to build an assembly plant somewhere in the Midwest.
It said the factory would be capable of producing around 200,000 vehicles a year starting in 2008 and provide up to 1,500 jobs.
Honda, which has its regional manufacturing hub in Ohio, said it would spend $125 million to expand production of engine, transmission and powertrain components in Ohio and Georgia.
It will also invest $140 million to build an engine factory near its Alliston assembly plant in the Canadian province of Ontario.
More than 80 percent of the cars and trucks Honda sells in the United States are built in North America -- and the company wants to maintain that ratio.
Last year, Honda sold 1.65 million vehicles in North America, including a record 1.46 million in the United States.
Although the U.S. auto market is down slightly this year, Honda is on track to set a fresh sales record. Sales of its Honda and Acura-brand vehicles are up 9 percent, bolstered by strong demand for the new Honda Civic compact.
With the new plant, the automaker will raise its production capacity in North America to 1.6 million from 1.4 million vehicles.
Honda's growth trend follows a "stair-step" pattern tracking the construction of new plants, said Erich Merkle, forecasting director at IRN Inc. in Grand Rapids.
"When they can produce more vehicles, they can sell more vehicles," he said.
Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels said state officials had been discussing potential sites with Honda for several months.
Residents of Greensburg, a small town of 10,500 set in a farming area, mounted their own campaign, sending Honda letters and drawings. Last month, townsfolk put on red T-shirts and stood in the shape of Honda's logo for an aerial photograph.
Indiana is already home to a Toyota truck plant and to a Subaru factory where Toyota will build Camry cars as part of a deal with Subaru's parent, Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd.
Honda first began making vehicles in the United States in 1979, when it opened a motorcycle plant just outside Marysville, Ohio. Three years later, it opened the first Japanese car factory in the United States in Marysville.
Rocky
Even to add a single turbo, often the blocks are reinforced, displacement is dropped for thicker cylinder walls, compression drops, and internal parts like pistons and cranks are forged. That's why people complain about turbo lag - off boost, the engine actually makes less power than a normally aspirated engine of the same size.
I doubt they could keep it that high-revving and make it turbo-charged. I'd be impressed if they could!
-juice
Rocky
Another is the size issue. Honda and acura combined has 4 midsize sedans and this should be fixed. The rl should be v8 powered (or a strong turbodiesel) and moved up to full size to be serious against the Ls or 7 series. The tl can stay a big midsize but needs the current rls v6 to be up there hp wise with the g35. The tsx can stay the same but should use a modified version of the accords v6 or the RDX's turbo. The accord needs to be a hybrid 4 and needs a modified v6 from the tl. :mad: BRING THE DIESELS OVER ASAP WHILE THE ULSD IS FRESH!!
The cl should be replaced with a (hard top prefered) convertible (coupes aren't selling as well as their convertible mates) and the accord needs to have a convertible model also. Bring the CSX to the states as well as the accord tourer. Honda should also put a six speed shiftable auto in the next accord and a serious ↓ in MSRP.
Finally, there should be a honda model slotting above the accord as a full size model. :P Ok i know i overdid it but i'm just venting out some stored anger from this past week. I feel better
I don't think it would be too hard these days. Nissan was building turbocharged CAs and RBs 15 years ago that could run up to 8000 rpm. The tricky part is setting up the turbo to provide decent power at low cruising rpms without overboosting the engine at the top end; hence all the playing around with sequential turbos, twincharging, variabe vanes and intakes, and stuff like that.
Rocky
Dunno how Honda's turbo will turn out, but they have definitely turned away from the torque-at-high-RPM model in the 2.4L from the Accord...I doubt they'll set up an AT-mostly-or-only-engine to need to be revved like an SI.
-juice
I think my point is that modern turbos are not really intended to be high revving engines, at least with these two examples. My sister is fairly conservative so I never really got to wind her Legacy GT when I drove it, but my more limited impression of it is similar.
I'd bet that Honda's is similar.