I love it. Bring it here with the 2.4l from the Accord, and by some miracle a 5 speed, and I will be lined up at the dealer to trade in our Odyssey on one.
I'm a fan as well. It's very sharp, looks more like a TSX wagon than a minivan. Give it an AWD option, price it just above the Mazda5, and I'll test drive one.
286' hp. Type-S and a few interior/ext. cosmetics and new Navi are about it. Yes a sport suspension and new tire and wheels were also slatedand will be in production. Not worth getting excited over. :sick:
The last Type S went from 225 to 260 (old SAE). A gain of roughly 15% using the same 3.2L engine. Torque went up roughly 8%. That vehicle was certainly well received by the press and public.
This new one gain only 11% (new SAE) to 286hp. But it uses the J35 engine to do it. Torque in this one raises about 10%.
So, slightly less of an HP boost, but a slightly more significant torque boost (at peak numbers). The question is whether moving to the J35 from the J32 is going to make a real impact on how the vehicle drives. The torque curve on the large engine tends to be broader.
On paper, I think this Type S has as good a chance as the last. Driving it will be required.
Thanx for the link pal, but already saw that on Acurazine a few days ago. You do offer some good points. I would of liked to seen SH-AWD and more power. All it got on the interior/exterior was a few cosmetic upgrades and bigger tires and butt ugly rims. I guess I did forget it recieved a upgraded navi. What about installing at least the RDX's ELS surround sount so the TL has a little bit more sound power in the TL ? :sick:
My bottom line, is I just don't think it will be worth the extra $4-5 grand to have a Type-S emblem on the back of my car. :sick: Or am I flat wrong ? I also was dissapointed Acura, didn't use the ventilated seats like found on the Canadian TL model. :confuse:
I doubt they care if it hurts the RL. They can probably reap big profits from the TL-S. Far more than they're making with the RL.
Besides, it is very possible the RL will get additional upgrades within a year or two. Acura is promising a new V6 with the MDX. It's possible the RL may see a something like 320hp (wild guess) for 2008.
I posted the link because others like to know where the info is coming from.
I think you need more realistic expectations. Look at the prices Acura has to charge to put the RL on our roads. Would you pay that much for a TL-S? Because they can't offer SH-AWD for free. That's a $3,000 addition before you do anything to the engine, interior, or badges.
Unless I miss your point, the TL has had ELS since 2004. Or are you thinking the RDX's version is better than the one in the TL?
Well, according to the leaks, the TL-S is going to run about 39K at MSRP. There is some confusion concerning whether or not that number includes NAV. Add SH-AWD to that number and you've got a TL-S costing close to 42K.
You're right, that's not the 49K Acura asks for the RL. However it's a big chunk of change and a significant jump from the TL's base price of 33K.
I was not aware there were so many differences between ELS systems in the RDX and TL. I'll have to check that out.
Depends on which source you read. C&D reports both a 6MT and a push-button 5AT.
The 6MT base TL already has an LSD. My "assumption" is that a 6MT TL-S (if one exists) would have it also. Dunno about the 5AT version.
Last time around, the manual tranny and LSD were both part of the CL-S arsenal, but both were missing from the TL-S. Yet, the TL-S was by far the more popular model. So, yeah, I don't think anybody buying these is really concerned about ultimate performance.
The RDX, has a super ELS DVD-A system cranking out 410 watts of 5.1. I think the TL's is only like 225 watts. Sure I liked the ELS in my former TL, but always desired more power, especially with the windows and roof opened.
I agree with you on the seatbelts. But in the back of my mind, I have to wonder about the strength of the seatback. I'd much rather be anchored to the body of the vehicle than to the seat.
When little Varmint gets older and I can afford a 3 car line-up, a 5MT Element might become my winter/utility car.
I'm pretty sure GM uses it on several of their large trucks, too. There are plenty of precedents.
But car seats are designed to give only so much resistance. A heavy guy squirming to pull his wallet from his back pocket can overwhelm the ratcheting mechanism on some seats and land in the back seat. To some degree, that is intentional. When you get rear-ended, you don't want a seat with no "give" to it. That might snap your neck.
Point is, I know most seat backs are not nearly as strong as B pillars. While I'm certain Honda has tested the E for most typical crashes, there are always the atypical ones to think about. I don't believe it is a bad design, it's just one of those things to make you go "hmmm?
Did anyone read the Autoweek article listing the future model changes for Honda?
It says the Accord is due for a redesign in the 2009 model year.
Isn't that long for Honda? Honda already extended the model cycle to five years for the Accord and Civic. If the next Accord is not due until the 2009 model year, that makes six years for the current-generation Accord!
Isn't one of the reasons that GM and Ford are in trouble because they stretched out their model cycles for too long? Is it wise for Honda to do the same thing?
Or maybe the Autoweek article was a misprint? (I'm hoping!)
a lot about the Autoweek article too. It never really said where they got this info, did it? I think a lot of it was merely AW's speculation, and as varmint mentioned, a lot seems to be wrong.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It was from a short Autoweek article, not much detail.
The design elements that looked familiar to me include the 4 cones around the gauge pod, the pluminum door handles, steering wheel, split center console, and waterfall style center. Tribeca has all of those.
Not sure about features, but new MDX is said to have 300 HP/275 lb.-ft motor with SH-AWD, and three trim levels: base, technology package and entertainment package.
I haven't seen the new MDX yet, but a friend of mine who owns a 2005 MDX and 2005 TL is ready to trade both for their 2007 counterparts (TL-S in the case of the TL).
Wow, I thought. This is the same friend who has already purchased at least 8-10 new cars/SUV's since 1995. This is the same friend who couldn't possibly afford a 911, or so he claimed when I gave him a ride in ours. If I did the math, I'm certain he's actually spent well more than we have, buying and selling every time something new comes out or catches his eye.
I'm sure the new MDX will be very nice and an improvement over the current model. As it should be. But, speaking for myself, I'm going to avoid the temptation to dump our perfectly fine 2005 model just to get updated do-dads, a nice interior, and a more powerful engine in a SUV that doesn't get much track time as it is. That's not to say that I wouldn't congratulate anyone that got one because they were due for a new vehicle.
Two companies that were claiming to be totally committed to naturally aspirated engines in their performance divisions, went turbo. I wonder what is significance of that.
I think it's getting hard to make competitive power with a N/A engine. All the tricks have taken them this far. But Honda has a LOT of turbo experience. We may be entering a whole new era of Honda performance.
Honda has offered turbo engines in "performance" variants before albeit in limited numbers and only in Japanese market (Legend in late 1980s). So, this not unprecedented.
saw "World Trade Center" today, and a Honda gave away a filming flaw: in the first few minutes, which are supposed to be the morning of 9/11 in New York, one of the street shots shows an Element (a highly distinctive vehicle to see, even in the very brief moments you see traffic in the movie). Now, was there such a thing as a Honda Element in 2001? :-/
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As BMW did, as well. I agree it is not as unprecedented, but I think it's significant that two arguably best engine companies that not so long ago swore into N/A engines as the way to go and turbo/supercharing as "easy fix", caved in, eventually. What is next? Acura V8? Accord RWD? 3-series BMW with standard leather seats? The world is coming to end, LOL
Besides the fake metal I don't see much resemblance...
It's missing the whole theme that I'm talking about - the cascading center console.
The front of the new MDX has that plastichrome grille, so perhaps a flashy nose is a trend in the segment. But it looks different, rather than a "void" that a grille usually is, it's sort of the opposite, maybe call it a plaque?
But Honda has a LOT of turbo experience. We may be entering a whole new era of Honda performance.
Aren't turbo engines very finicky about some maintenance items such as engine oil changes? Can one easily damage components by not adhering to a very strict maintenance regimen?
They're also thirsty for octane. I'd stick with premium only and be very careful about oil intervals, maybe even go with synthetic.
No maybe, it's a given IMHO even if manufacturer doesn't specifically say. It boggles my mind how US is still stuck in 3 month/3000 miles mineral oil change. Rest of the world has long abandoned that - small 1.2l engines in Europe have all synthetic specified with 10-15K interval. Turbo would probably cut that interval in half and specify thin oils.
Comments
Just don't tell me wife if you see her, OK?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
-juice
The Mazda5 has just barely enough oomph to be fun, with its 2.3l engine.
-juice
Smaller than the Mazda5.
-juice
Rocky
The last Type S went from 225 to 260 (old SAE). A gain of roughly 15% using the same 3.2L engine. Torque went up roughly 8%. That vehicle was certainly well received by the press and public.
This new one gain only 11% (new SAE) to 286hp. But it uses the J35 engine to do it. Torque in this one raises about 10%.
So, slightly less of an HP boost, but a slightly more significant torque boost (at peak numbers). The question is whether moving to the J35 from the J32 is going to make a real impact on how the vehicle drives. The torque curve on the large engine tends to be broader.
On paper, I think this Type S has as good a chance as the last. Driving it will be required.
http://www.boston.com/cars/car_reviews/articles/2006/08/05/type_s_as_in_sinister- /
I'm an AWD fan, but how many Acura consumers will just buy the cheaper/quicker/sportier Type S?
-juice
My bottom line, is I just don't think it will be worth the extra $4-5 grand to have a Type-S emblem on the back of my car. :sick: Or am I flat wrong ? I also was dissapointed Acura, didn't use the ventilated seats like found on the Canadian TL model. :confuse:
Rocky
Besides, it is very possible the RL will get additional upgrades within a year or two. Acura is promising a new V6 with the MDX. It's possible the RL may see a something like 320hp (wild guess) for 2008.
I think you need more realistic expectations. Look at the prices Acura has to charge to put the RL on our roads. Would you pay that much for a TL-S? Because they can't offer SH-AWD for free. That's a $3,000 addition before you do anything to the engine, interior, or badges.
Unless I miss your point, the TL has had ELS since 2004. Or are you thinking the RDX's version is better than the one in the TL?
Rocky
P.S. SH-AWD, wouldn't make the TL's price jump to RL territory. However, I'd be willing to pay $3K for SH-AWD.
You're right, that's not the 49K Acura asks for the RL. However it's a big chunk of change and a significant jump from the TL's base price of 33K.
I was not aware there were so many differences between ELS systems in the RDX and TL. I'll have to check that out.
Does it get a limited-slip diff? Also, I read it won't come with a manual trans, is that right?
Sans LSD or a manual, and FWD on top of that, it won't grab too many autocrossers. But I think it'll do fine anyway.
IMO this package is more of a response to the ES330 being upgraded to an ES350.
-juice
The 6MT base TL already has an LSD. My "assumption" is that a 6MT TL-S (if one exists) would have it also. Dunno about the 5AT version.
Last time around, the manual tranny and LSD were both part of the CL-S arsenal, but both were missing from the TL-S. Yet, the TL-S was by far the more popular model. So, yeah, I don't think anybody buying these is really concerned about ultimate performance.
Pricing has been released for the 2007 Element.
Rocky
the addition of seat-integrated front safety belts to all Element models allows for much easier rear passenger loading and unloading
My #1 qualm with the original is addressed. Before you had to remove the front seat belt to let a rear passenger out!
+10hp and 5 speeds on the auto. Pretty significant improvements when you add 'em up. :shades:
-juice
When little Varmint gets older and I can afford a 3 car line-up, a 5MT Element might become my winter/utility car.
-juice
the sienna also has this kind of belt on their 2nd row seat
But car seats are designed to give only so much resistance. A heavy guy squirming to pull his wallet from his back pocket can overwhelm the ratcheting mechanism on some seats and land in the back seat. To some degree, that is intentional. When you get rear-ended, you don't want a seat with no "give" to it. That might snap your neck.
Point is, I know most seat backs are not nearly as strong as B pillars. While I'm certain Honda has tested the E for most typical crashes, there are always the atypical ones to think about. I don't believe it is a bad design, it's just one of those things to make you go "hmmm?
It says the Accord is due for a redesign in the 2009 model year.
Isn't that long for Honda? Honda already extended the model cycle to five years for the Accord and Civic. If the next Accord is not due until the 2009 model year, that makes six years for the current-generation Accord!
Isn't one of the reasons that GM and Ford are in trouble because they stretched out their model cycles for too long? Is it wise for Honda to do the same thing?
Or maybe the Autoweek article was a misprint? (I'm hoping!)
Rocky
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Gorgeous. Huge step up. I love it. :shades:
-juice
Rocky
And as a current MDX owner, I'll admit that this new one is a million X improvement in the interior dept. Very nice.
The design elements that looked familiar to me include the 4 cones around the gauge pod, the pluminum door handles, steering wheel, split center console, and waterfall style center. Tribeca has all of those.
Looks great.
-juice
I bet that engine goes in the Ridgeline next.
-juice
Rocky
Wow, I thought. This is the same friend who has already purchased at least 8-10 new cars/SUV's since 1995. This is the same friend who couldn't possibly afford a 911, or so he claimed when I gave him a ride in ours. If I did the math, I'm certain he's actually spent well more than we have, buying and selling every time something new comes out or catches his eye.
I'm sure the new MDX will be very nice and an improvement over the current model. As it should be. But, speaking for myself, I'm going to avoid the temptation to dump our perfectly fine 2005 model just to get updated do-dads, a nice interior, and a more powerful engine in a SUV that doesn't get much track time as it is. That's not to say that I wouldn't congratulate anyone that got one because they were due for a new vehicle.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2018 430i Gran Coupe
It's missing the whole theme that I'm talking about - the cascading center console.
The front of the new MDX has that plastichrome grille, so perhaps a flashy nose is a trend in the segment. But it looks different, rather than a "void" that a grille usually is, it's sort of the opposite, maybe call it a plaque?
I prefer the nose of the RDX.
-juice
Aren't turbo engines very finicky about some maintenance items such as engine oil changes? Can one easily damage components by not adhering to a very strict maintenance regimen?
They're also thirsty for octane. I'd stick with premium only and be very careful about oil intervals, maybe even go with synthetic.
-juice
No maybe, it's a given IMHO even if manufacturer doesn't specifically say. It boggles my mind how US is still stuck in 3 month/3000 miles mineral oil change. Rest of the world has long abandoned that - small 1.2l engines in Europe have all synthetic specified with 10-15K interval. Turbo would probably cut that interval in half and specify thin oils.
2018 430i Gran Coupe