There were many '01-02 CL owners from another site that had their transmissions fail more than once, some as many as 3 times. It was those reoccurrences, which scared me. And yes, Acura did a great job is getting “my” 1st transmission failure taken care of. Even though Acura extended the transmission warranty to I believe it 7/100k miles, it didn’t make me feel like it going to last without another failure.
Back in '01-02 Acura was not admitting to any transmission problems and not doing any recalls, and only addressing the transmissions if and when they failed. So, at what point do we start believing that Honda has the AT problem totally fix. Or now that problem “A” & “B” have addressed and fixed, do we simply wait and hope that there is not a new problem “C” lurking somewhere.
My previous ride was a ’98 Old Intrigue that kept have the same problems repeat over and over. Oldsmobile only appeared to temporally fix the problems but using the same faulty parts. And then guess what it would fail again, due to either poor design, or shoddy material or both.
"Back in '01-02 Acura was not admitting to any transmission problems and not doing any recalls, and only addressing the transmissions if and when they failed."
With a component like an automatic transmission, where the only solution is replacement and the % of cars with issues is around 1.5 - 2%, of course they're going to address it on an as-needed basis. When 98% or so of the transmissions weren't likely to fail, can you reasonably expect them to replace ALL transmissions? That's why they did the warranty extension, to reassure people whose cars didn't exhibit the failures that they'd be covered if it happened in the future, or for those who had the transmission replaced, in the event of a second failure.
With a major component with a relatively low problem rate, replacement on an as-needed basis is the standard response, as also witnessed with the Toyota engine sludge issue. They didn't issue a recall to replace all potentially affected engines either. The difference is that they also didn't provide an extended warranty, and there are reports that they're refusing to cover a failure when the second owner experiences it after the car is sold. Since the Honda/Acura extended warranty is transferable, at least they've established the position of being willing to cover a problem later on in the car's life, either for the original owner or subsequent owners.
"Even though Acura extended the transmission warranty to I believe it 7/100k miles, it didn’t make me feel like it going to last without another failure."
All I can say is that the V6 Accords of around that time shared the same issue, and there wasn't a rash of multiple transmission failures on those cars of which I'm aware, and I visit LOTS of sites. At any rate, the current recall is for a completely different problem, and the earlier problem apparently has been solved. It's a pretty safe bet that we'd know by now if it hadn't been, with the number of gen 7 V6 Accords sold with the new automatic transmission design, since the earlier problems began to manifest themselves almost immediately.
So beyond that, I'm not sure what you expect to hear in response to your posts. Obviously there's no way that you're going to feel comfortable with Honda/Acura automatic transmissions, so my advice is to go with another brand. With any luck, you won't end up with a similar situation with another brand, such as the Toyota sludge problem or the recurring issues with your Olds Intrigue.
As I said before, no manufacturer is immune from these things, and even the best have the occasional problem. If you're expecting to have a guarantee of a totally problem free car, all I can do is to wish you lots of luck with that.
Hi, I was a former owner of 1995 Civic. Incredible car in terms of reliability, 212,000 miles of no major issues just maintenance. However a bit uncomfortable, noisy and not an ounce of fun to drive despite being the EX coupe.
I went onto a Subaru WRX wagon, behind in reliability (average) and refinement/interior but any Subaru is more fun to drive than a Honda. The Acura TSX is great though.
My wife owns a problem free 96 Civic with 170k. Again problem free but she won't buy another Honda either since they don't offer a wagon. I know the masses don't like. She thinks the new Accord sedan is ugly.
For us Honda's appeal has run out. However in Europe we rented an incredible Honda of course not available here, an Accord Estate (wagon that I think is a derivation Acura TSX here). I guess we like boring cars in the US.
You can't really compare an AWD 227HP car which costs about $22,000-$24,000? to a 127HP Civic which was probably no more than $15,000 on a fun-to-drive basis. That's the same as saying a 350Z is more fun-to-drive than an Altima.
You need to read your previous post. You make it sound like Honda takes care of their customers when no one else does, and did the recall out of the goodness of their heart. Here is an important tidbit you posted.
"...not to mention the beating their reputation for reliability was beginning to take on the Internet and in the press, they backed down and started covering some engine failures."
This is exactly what was happening to Honda. They were taking a beating on the Internet and even the press started reporting the transmission failures. Magically Honda started to scramble and issued a recall, they were taking a beating just like Toyota. They figured they could get away with it, but when the press finally picked up on it they had no choice.
Honda made the official announcement in September 2002. The Los Angeles Times had picked up on the transmission problem BEFORE the recall was announced. Go to a Honda forum and do a search, all the Honda fans were worried the story would hurt Honda's reputation. The Los Angeles Times is the one I know of right off hand, who knows how many small newspapers or other sources picked up on it beforehand.
And actually you and gee35coupe sound like PR guys for Honda. Here is what Honda said.
"While only two percent of these vehicles have experienced these transmission problems, American Honda will provide extended transmission warranties on all potentially affected vehicles. "Our priorities are making sure our customers are taken care of and reassured they can continue to depend on their Honda or Acura automobile for a long time to come," said Tom Elliott, executive vice president for American Honda."
254,000 Saturn L-series cars are recalled, but GM says only 7 have been reported catching on fire. This is well below 2 percent, but it's not acceptable. But when it's Honda, 2 percent is acceptable. When a Honda catches on fire it's acceptable, it's a fluke, but when it happens to another company there's no excuse.
GM issued the recall because there was a failure in their vehicles that was causing the fires/problems. So far, both NHTSA and Honda have stated the CRV fires were a result of technician error. It's hard for Honda to recall technicians.
Actually, the NTSHA said that there was nothing yet pointing to a design flaw but the investigation was not yet complete. Completely different thing. And of COURSE Honda is gonna say it's not their fault. If they start admitting things before the NTSHA forces them to (or they come up with an ironclad solution themselves and issue a voluntary recall WITHOUT incriminating themselves), they leave themselves wide open to lawsuits and other such nastiness. That's just the nature of buisness and PR.
And the way a vehicle is designed can CAUSE technician error also, you know. And considering these same technicians are working on hundreds of other types of cars and none of those other types are catching fire, the CR-V and it's design must still be considered as a possible cause.
But if it's a design flaw why aren't 02 CR-V's catching on fire? Have there been any reports of such fires? Or what about the Element with the same 2.4? Or even the Accord/TSX with the 2.4 in it?
The CR-V is a completely different vehicle. It could be any number of things. Since it's happening to one specific model year makes it just as suspicious as if it was happening to several model years. If the technicians were suppose to do something different to a specific model year CR-V compared to a previous one then Honda should have informed them of this, thus it's Honda's fault.
"You need to read your previous post. You make it sound like Honda takes care of their customers when no one else does, and did the recall out of the goodness of their heart. Here is an important tidbit you posted."
I know what I posted, thank you. My point was about Toyota and your claim that they're the way to go regarding reliability. A claim with which I strongly disagree. Interesting that you have no reaction to that part of my post.
I never said that Honda did anything out of the goodness of their hearts... it's just that their handling of a major issue like this was orders of magnitude better than the denial and finger-pointing that Toyota did when they completely bungled the oil sludge situation.
"This is exactly what was happening to Honda. They were taking a beating on the Internet and even the press started reporting the transmission failures. Magically Honda started to scramble and issued a recall, they were taking a beating just like Toyota. They figured they could get away with it, but when the press finally picked up on it they had no choice."
I think you have your facts mixed up. Honda NEVER issued a recall on the transmissions in the earlier issue, in the same way that Toyota never issued a recall for the engines. Sorry, but no company is going to replace hundreds of thousands of transmissions as a preventative measure when the failure rate is at roughly 2%. Also, this failure was not a sudden one... obvious changes in the behavior of the transmission would manifest themselves long before the transmission would fail.
Likewise, Toyota never issued a recall on the engines for the same reason. However, one big difference is that Honda/Acura never denied that a problem existed, or tried to blame the owners for the problem. Which is exactly how Toyota reacted when the engine problems began to surface.
As I stated earlier, my Accord was among the first to get a transmission replacement. There was never any denial by Honda or any attempt to blame me for the problem. They just fixed it. Clearly, that wasn't the case with the Toyota engines.
Both Honda and Toyota were pressed into action by customer reaction and bad press. But again, their reactions were very different. Honda issued an extended warranty on the models that were potentially affected. However, they had been performing transmission replacements for over a year on cars that exhibited symptoms of an impending failure.
Toyota's response was to actually begin covering some claims that they had previously refused. And they offered a generous "special policy adjustment" for one year in Feb. 2002... during that year, they offered to replace any affected engines if the owner could provide proof of one oil change in the year prior.
However, based on the petition that I found, it appears that Toyota is still trying to dodge their responsibilities. For example, if a car that's still under warranty is sold and experiences the engine sludge failure, Toyota is refusing to cover it.
And all this time, they still maintain that it's the fault of the owners, even though there are many recorded cases of owners who followed the recommended oil change intervals and still experienced the sludge problem. Independent experts have investigated and found that the design of the Toyota V6 caused temperature changes in the oil of between 60 - 70 degrees between the block and the cylinder head. In the average engine, the temp change is between 10 - 15 degrees, which is considered the level that's not damaging to the oil. So of course this dramatically overheated oil is going to break down and cause sludge, even for those who change their oil as recommended. Yet Toyota denies any responsibility to this day.
So again, I have to vehemently disagree that Toyota is any better than Honda regarding either reliability or responsiveness to customer need. In the two cases cited, I contend that Honda took care of its owners much better than did Toyota.
"And actually you and gee35coupe sound like PR guys for Honda. Here is what Honda said."
Yeah, so we read the press release... so did thousands of others.
"254,000 Saturn L-series cars are recalled, but GM says only 7 have been reported catching on fire. This is well below 2 percent, but it's not acceptable. But when it's Honda, 2 percent is acceptable."
Yeah, the Saturn recall is a simple, very inexpensive one... here's the solution:
"Dealers will (1) replace the ignition control module, (2) replace the ignition control module and spark plugs, or (3) replace the ignition control module, spark plugs, and update the powertrain control module calibration."
That's a far cry from replacing a transmission. And it's very much like the Honda/Acura transmission recall for the current gen 5-speed automatics.
Only 7 Saturns caught fire and there was a recall.
Many more CR-V's have done the same, NHTSA conducted a investigation and did NOT fault Honda. I hope you see the hypocrisy in your last few posts in reference to the Saturn-L and CR-V.
Extending the warranty is not a recall and wasn't mandated by the government. Maybe you could say it was goodwiill from Honda.
I thought the sludge "problem" only effected MY 1997-01 Camrys, Siennas, and Avalons. Why is it still an issue now? Toyota's problems were in the past unfortunately Honda's "transmission problem" is in the present. While I believe both brands are very reliable I think Toyota has a slight advantage in long term reliability.
"I thought the sludge "problem" only effected MY 1997-01 Camrys, Siennas, and Avalons. Why is it still an issue now?"
For a couple of reasons. First, some members are representing Toyota as superior to Honda in reliability because of the Honda transmission issues. And they're lumping two completely separate and distinct issues into one big "problem", when the truth of the matter is that the previous transmission problem actually affected 2000-2001 Accords (not sure of the Acura model years) and has NOT carried over into the new transmission design.
The recall on the current transmission design is a preventative measure that's intended to correct a situation that could lead to a serious failure in high mileage vehicles, in most cases those used for extensive towing. Rather than replacing a failed or about to fail transmission, Honda is attempting to nip the vast majority of potential failures in the bud. And they also have transmission replacement as an option for the very small percentage of vehicles that are likely to need them.
Anyway, the point was that to condemn Honda because of the earlier transmission problem and to promote Toyota as the "reliable alternative" is completely ignoring the comparably significant magnitude of the Toyota sludge problems. A situation that was made a lot worse by Toyota's ongoing position of denial, and their initial position of total inaction regarding the problem.
Pzev :: Thanks for helping to clear up my intended thoughts, that is Honda was trying to avoid admitting to any problems until things really started to heat up. Two percent may not seem like much to some, unless you happen to fall into that 2% failure bracket, especially more than once.
Talon95 :: Of course I would not expect Honda to have replaced all transmissions, but I also would not expect a similar transmission problem to be still on going some 3-4 years later. Back in ’02 there were some that believed the Acura’s sport/shift and higher HP were part of the problem.
I don’t pretend fully understand the “details” of the various Honda model transmission problems, but the impression is, that the same “base” faulty design is still being installed in current models. My impression is that it appears to be isolated to any/all V6 5-speed AT, crossing the Acura & Honda lines, and still is an existing problem with today’s 03-04 Odyssey & Pilots.
Back on ’01 my decision to buy my 1st Honda product (Acura CL), was partly based on Honda’s legendary reputation, and I ended up getting burned on another first year model. I’m a sucker for the first years latest and greatest, but I thought I would have little or no problems with Acura or at least minimal. Who knew it would end up being major (transmission), which happen just before getting ready to leave on a long trip.
What happens to the poor soles, that think they are buying a reliable Honda/Acura vehicle just outside the standard/extended warranty period, and the transmission dies ??
One other thing, after my transmission was replaced, the car lacked its get-up-go that it had before. The gearing appeared setup less aggressive, in the end it I was somewhat disappointed with the results.
"Thanks for helping to clear up my intended thoughts, that is Honda was trying to avoid admitting to any problems until things really started to heat up."
If they were trying to avoid admitting to any problems, why did they replace my transmission and many others, no questions asked, over a year prior to the announcement of the extended warranty? Perhaps they didn't publicize it initially, but they NEVER avoided responsibility. Which is much more than you can say about Toyota with the engine sludge debacle.
And I still don't get the obsession over the 2% figure. All that does is give one a sense of how widespread the problem is (or in this case, isn't). Honda isn't trying to use the 2% figure to avoid action on this issue. On the contrary, Honda is replacing the transmissions as necessary and has issued the extended warranty. In the face of the fact that the issue exists, I don't really know what more they can be expected to do. After all, even you admit that you don't expect Honda to replace all of the transmissions.
"I don’t pretend fully understand the “details” of the various Honda model transmission problems, but the impression is, that the same “base” faulty design is still being installed in current models. My impression is that it appears to be isolated to any/all V6 5-speed AT, crossing the Acura & Honda lines, and still is an existing problem with today’s 03-04 Odyssey & Pilots."
That's not my impression... I frequent many different sites that cover Accords, and I have yet to see ANY complaints about the Gen 7 V6 models that suggest that they share the torque converter problem with the earlier designs. Given how quickly the problems manifested themselves initially, we'd certainly have heard something by now. So I disagree with your contention that the earlier problem has carried over into the new transmission design.
My figures were older (as stated in my original post), so I'll take yours as the more accurate.
I have to wonder what happened to the other Mazda dealerships (or the way they are counted). Daniel Heraud's 2001 revice of the Tribute listed Mazda as having 850 retailers. I can understand how Honda has grown, but not Mazda shrinking.
The NHTSA concluded the investigation without determining a cause. What they found was that there wasn't enough evidence to suggest that continued investigation would be worthwhile. This does not mean that there is no defect. It means they simply couldn't find one and the evidence "suggested" other causes.
Of course, the NHTSA reserves the right to reopen the investigation as more information becomes available. So we may see more action on this.
Their initial conclusion was that the majority of fires and leaks were caused by pinched or stacked gaskets. These gasket installation errors allowed oil to spill out and potentially be ignited by hot exhaust components.
No 2002 vehicles were included in the investigation. That does not mean that it did not happen to any 2002 models. They could have leaked and been fixed. Or they caught fire and were sent to the junk yard. Since the investigation did not start until late 2003 at the earliest, those 2002 models would no longer be fit for investigation (dismantled or scrapped).
The Element is very similar to the CR-V, so it could share the same problem. However, the rate of issues is so minute it's entirely possible that Element owners simply benefit from dumb luck.
Essentially, the jury is still out. There is not enough evidence to draw any conclusions.
Were any 2002 models reported? It would have ben right there on the web site just like the other reports of the later models. I mean you'd think if NHTSA had reports of 2002 models catching fire, they would have included it in the investigation and reported them. It would also be criminal if Honda hid the repors from NHTSA.
But doesn't look any of that happened. And NHTSA investigated all reportes that they had at the time and did NOT recommend a recall. That says more than anything. I mean these are FIRES that destroy entire vehicles. If there were any fault that could attributed to Honda you would think NHTSA would err on safety and recall the vehicle. But they didn't and issued a news release staing they agreed technician error was the most likely cause. That's important.
I completely forgot the most important piece of information in all this. The LA Times article was done September 11, 2002. Honda's official announcement came on September 20, 2002. What this tells me is Honda saw a really bad situation in this. LA Times is no backwater publication. They KNEW if they sat on their hands and didn't announce an extended warranty for the transmissions that a chain reaction would occur and other big name sources would start reporting this. Suddenly John Doe picks up the newspaper and reads about bad Honda transmissions. It's clear this would damage their reputation for reliability, the same with the Toyota sludge issue.
So was this done out of good will for their customers? In my opinion no. Is it coincidence that the announcement came after that article in the LA Times was posted? In my opinion no. Honda saw some very bad PR possibilities and decided NOW was the time to announce SOMETHING to show that they would stand behind their product. If they were replacing everyone's transmissions with no problem then they would have done it a long time ago, unless they completely had no clue on how to make the transmission right, which is possible since some people went through as many as 3 transmissions.
And by the way, I've heard several people on the internet that had to pay out of pocket for a transmission since it was out of warranty. This was before the extended warranty announcement obviously. Of course they were supposedly reimbursed after the announcement, but before the announcement? No, they paid out of pocket. Of course this is going by what people said on the internet, I have no source to back that up so take it for what it's worth.
And for the record I trust Toyota as much as I do Honda. I don't think there's any car company that fully takes care of their customers. They're running a business and if it's not in their best interest they won't replace transmissions or engines. Actually if we want to say Honda is better in that regard that's ok with me, but neither company always does the right thing for the customer, this is something to be expected.
If they have no clue what the source of the problem is though how can they issue a recall? They can't, so that's why they didn't. It sounds like they're not firmly convinced either way about what's going on, so what can we expect them to do?
And they said "technician error". There ya go...Clue. You could expect them to do something more than...the nothing that they ended up doing. Additionally Honda said they weren't going to do anything more than "educate the technicians. By you previous post you assert that Honda would do something if they thought there was a larger issue. What larger issue could there be than a liability lawsuit asserting Honda hid the "true" reason for the fires. Can't have it both ways dude.
My previous post was about the NHTSA, not Honda. I don't expect Honda to do anything unless they're forced to. And this is what varmint said above.
"Essentially, the jury is still out. There is not enough evidence to draw any conclusions."
So wherever you're getting your info from, can we conclude this as well or are they firmly convinced it was the technician's fault? You can make things easier just by posting the source.
NHTSA Action Number : PE04018 NHTSA Recall Campaign Number : N/A Make : HONDA Model: CR-V Manufacturer : AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO. Year : 2003 Component : ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE Date Investigation Opened : February 19, 2004 Date Investigation Closed : July 1, 2004 Summary: THIS INVESTIGATION IDENTIFIED 32 INCIDENTS OF OIL FILTER LEAKAGE IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLE POPULATION, WITH 22 RESULTING IN VEHICLE FIRES. ALL OF THE INCIDENTS OCCURRED FOLLOWING OIL CHANGES. HONDA'S INVESTIGATION OF 14 OF THE FIRE INCIDENTS DETERMINED THAT "FIVE OIL FILTERS HAD STACKED SEALS (DOUBLE-GASKETING), AND NINE OIL FILTERS HAD DISTORTED OR PINCHED SEALS." ACCORDING TO HONDA, BOTH CONDITIONS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO FOLLOW NECESSARY REPAIR PROCEDURES. STACKED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE OF THE SERVICE TECHNICIAN TO REMOVE THE OLD SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLING THE NEW FILTER AND SEAL. DISTORTED OR PINCHED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO PROPERLY LUBRICATE THE NEW SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. OIL LEAKAGE FROM A STACKED, DISTORTED, OR PINCHED SEAL CAN BE IGNITED BY HEAT FROM THE EXHAUST SYSTEM, WHICH IS LOCATED NEAR THE OIL FILTER IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES. HONDA WILL ISSUE COMMUNICATIONS TO ITS DEALERS WARNING OF THE NECESSITY TO FOLLOW CORRECT PROCEDURES WHEN REPLACING OIL FILTERS IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES AND OF THE POTENTIAL FOR VEHICLE FIRES TO RESULT FROM IMPROPER REPAIRS. ODI WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THE ALLEGED DEFECT IN MY 2003 AND LATER CR-V VEHICLES. THIS INVESTIGATION IS CLOSED. THE CLOSING OF THIS INVESTIGATION DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A FINDING BY NHTSA THAT NO SAFETY-RELATED DEFECT EXISTS. THE AGENCY WILL TAKE FURTHER ACTION IF WARRANTED BY THE CIRCUMSTANCES.
Notice they explicitly state they are continuing to monitor and that the closure of the investigation does NOT constitute a finding, and the only explanation of the issue is provided by Honda itself, who of course will not implicate themselves in the investigation because of legality issues.
Meaning Honda is convinced that it's the fault of the techs, but the jury is still out.
I'm sure if there were any 2002's reported to NHTSA, they would have been included in the investigation. Especially if they conformed to the "right after oil change" scenario.
So let me get this straight...Honda had to do SOMETHING to show they would stand behind the product so they extended the warranty on trasmissions. Not to mention the BAAAD PR.
Honda provided NHTSA with a reason for the fires that would not implicate themselves when the problem in question could actually cause a fire that would kill people? If it's determined Honda knew the cause, the penalty would be dear. Civilly and criminally.
Honda's "run" is doing fine though. You know, since that IS what we are trying to determine.
"Actually if we want to say Honda is better in that regard that's ok with me, but neither company always does the right thing for the customer, this is something to be expected."
My point exactly. Yes, I railed on Toyota pretty mercilessly, but it was just to demonstrate that if you think that Honda mistreated their customers with the earlier transmission issue, Toyota did the same or arguably worse under similar circumstances. I guess the bottom line is that none of the Honda or Toyota execs involved in the handling of these major issues are likely to be candidates for sainthood....
"And for the record I trust Toyota as much as I do Honda."
The same goes for me for the most part. Although I personally prefer many design aspects and performance characteristics of Hondas over comparable Toyotas, I have no qualms about recommending a Toyota to someone if that's the vehicle that seems to be the best fit for their needs. In fact, I've done so several times in the past. However, I do have some personal experience with Toyota that ranged from less than impressive to quite disturbing from a customer satisfaction perspective. So I still give a bit of an edge to Honda, based on my own interaction with both companies. Obviously, YMMV.
What does Honda offer that is equivalent to a WRX in fun to drive quotient? The SI unfortunately is just okay. Honda has no fun to drive models in their stable at any price currently.
"What does Honda offer that is equivalent to a WRX in fun to drive quotient? The SI unfortunately is just okay. Honda has no fun to drive models in their stable at any price currently."
Honda does have models like this in other parts of the world, but chooses not to go to the trouble of bringing them to the U.S. One of the differences between Honda and Subaru in America is volume. Honda is a big volume player, and in that bigger picture small-volume sport models like these just don't make a great business case. Although looking at how many WRXs Subie has sold now in the last four years makes one think that THIS PARTICULAR sport model would have been worth Honda's while.
Subie also doesn't have an "upscale brand" whose toes it is trying to avoid stepping on. Get into mid-$20s high-power sport models with Honda badges on them, and people are going to wonder what low-$20s RSXs are doing labelled "Acura" (although I say go back to calling it the Honda Integra if it means we could get some of the serious sport Civic models here). As they already do a little with the S2000.
Look at the European Civic type-R. How I would dearly love to see THAT come to the States next year with the Civic update! And how about a 5-door hatch (they have one there right now) with the same powertrain. Blow all these other guys ('06 Focus SVT, Neon SRT-4, WRX) out of the water for a minute, or at least give them some honest competition.
One has to wonder what exactly was the magic formula that the WRX had, that caused it to sell so darn well. If it can be found, perhaps Honda can do it one better. Or maybe now that WRX has spawned all the imitators, perhaps the segment is just too flooded, I dunno.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The closest thing in Honda's stable right now (though a bit larger than the WRX and not as tight in the suspension area) is the Accord coupe EX V6 which can be had with a six speed shifter.
There are quite a few Susp. packages (from Mugen and others) to tighten up the suspension however. The Honda special package is here,
There would not be a "sludge issue" with any vehicle, if the owner of the vehicle changed the oil and filter often, based on the type of driving that is experienced by the vehicle. Oil and filters should be changed every 3,000 miles or 3 months which ever comes first, no matter what the owner's manual states about extended oil and filter changes. Extended oil and filter changes, are a dream of the manufacturer and EPA. It is simply a marketing tool to allow the customer to believe that the new vehicle requires little maintenance. If the vehicle is subjected to VERY hard usage, the oil and filter change intervals should be lowered to 2,000 miles, and consideration should be given to the use of synthetic oil. (Synthetic Oil can withstand heat better than Dino oil). The concept is simple, Oil and filters are cheap, engines are expensive! I have the oil and filter changed by the Honda dealer every 3,000 miles or 3 months on both the 2004 Civic and the 2003 Accord. The Accord has 33,000 miles and the clock and the crankcase is as clean as a new engine.
If the manual says change the oil at 10,000 miles. You should be able to go 10,000 miles without sludge. Especially if there is a "free maintenance" plan that will only change the oil when the manual says so.
Any engine damage that occurs due to improper recommendations should be covered under warranty. I know I have never folowed a 3000 mile regimen and I have never had a problem with sludge or oil related engine damage. Besides if 3000 mile oil changes were required to keep a car on the road, there would be very few used cars out there. Most folk aren't that diligent.
"With a component like an automatic transmission, where the only solution is replacement and the % of cars with issues is around 1.5 - 2%, of course they're going to address it on an as-needed basis. When 98% or so of the transmissions weren't likely to fail, can you reasonably expect them to replace ALL transmissions?"
I hear people citing this 1.5-2% number over and over again.
Who came up with this number? How?
Wouldn't the failure rate go up as more time goes by?
I heard this number a couple years ago. Is it still at 1.5-2%?
If Honda is the source of these numbers, how do they know?
They would have to know the source of the problem and if they know that it is only 1.5-2%, why don't they just recall that 1.5-2% of the cars that will be affected and be done with it?
If they know it's only 1.5-2%, they should know the specific cars that will be affected. ie) a VIN range
If they don't know that, then the 1.5-2% is a guess, and it's an old guess.
If you only keep a car for 6 months, there isn't time for it to sludge up.
As to tranny replacements, if a component is deemed defective in design so that all of them are reasonably expected to fail prematurely, than they should be replaced in advance. But, if the failure is something that is only expected to affect a small percentage of cars (that is, most trannys will have a normal life span), than waiting for a failure to occur is appropriate.
We had a 99 Accord EX that we kept for 22 months and almost 40,000 miles. With oil changes every 5,000-7,000 miles there was no sludge to be found. We've also bought several high mileage (120,000+) Hondas that were very obviously not the beneficiaries of 3,000 mile oil changes or any regular maintenance for that matter and none of them had sludge either. We had a 97 RAV4 for 39 months and 48,700 miles with oil changes every 7,000 miles and no sludge in it either. Our 03 Civic has 20,000 miles and had had 2 oil changes, no signs of sludge.
In my book (and experience) both Honda/Acura & Toyota/Lexus are the top 2 dogs are far as quality & customer service goes. I believe that Toyota has a broader range of products, and Honda hasn’t really scratched the truck surface.
Subie are nice for what they are, but they are too small & over priced.
Oil changes on 3k intervals is overkill in most all cases, especially when some manuals are recommending 7,500 miles. So I split the difference at 5k, makes remembering when a whole lot easier 5/10/15/20 etc. etc.
The Europeans get all the good stuff. Another diesel goes on sale by the company that said they would never build diesel. Well the have and I think it may be a real good piece of equipment.
what happened to the old Honda that kept things simple and didn't try to re-invent the wheel. I'm researching a kid-friendly vehicle for my daughter. The ODY board is full of complaints about all the fancy stuff they're trying to do...transmission problems, engine issues, power door troubles, and noise/rattle difficulties. I remember when they had 2 or 3 vehicles enhanced in minor ways, and absolutely bullet-proof. Has Honda changed their direction and lost their way? My mother-in-law has a new Accord (on my advice). It rattles. It's a very nice car, but it woulda been against the law for an old Honda to rattle.
They changed from a small, niche maufactuer of a limited line of well done cars to a "Mainstream" car company. In other words, they got big. Now they're doing the same dance GM, Toyota, et al do.
I don't understand how the guy can be mad at Honda when the oil change tech was at fault. Additionally, they say it's only hapening after the first oil change. His CR-V shuld be fine now. If he sells it, he's nuts.
In what way has Honda change doing a simple oil-change, that now if you don't following X-Y-Z steps you could cause a fire. I sure would hate to be a local oil-change shop, doing a CRV oil change be held liable.
Comments
Back in '01-02 Acura was not admitting to any transmission problems and not doing any recalls, and only addressing the transmissions if and when they failed. So, at what point do we start believing that Honda has the AT problem totally fix. Or now that problem “A” & “B” have addressed and fixed, do we simply wait and hope that there is not a new problem “C” lurking somewhere.
My previous ride was a ’98 Old Intrigue that kept have the same problems repeat over and over. Oldsmobile only appeared to temporally fix the problems but using the same faulty parts. And then guess what it would fail again, due to either poor design, or shoddy material or both.
With a component like an automatic transmission, where the only solution is replacement and the % of cars with issues is around 1.5 - 2%, of course they're going to address it on an as-needed basis. When 98% or so of the transmissions weren't likely to fail, can you reasonably expect them to replace ALL transmissions? That's why they did the warranty extension, to reassure people whose cars didn't exhibit the failures that they'd be covered if it happened in the future, or for those who had the transmission replaced, in the event of a second failure.
With a major component with a relatively low problem rate, replacement on an as-needed basis is the standard response, as also witnessed with the Toyota engine sludge issue. They didn't issue a recall to replace all potentially affected engines either. The difference is that they also didn't provide an extended warranty, and there are reports that they're refusing to cover a failure when the second owner experiences it after the car is sold. Since the Honda/Acura extended warranty is transferable, at least they've established the position of being willing to cover a problem later on in the car's life, either for the original owner or subsequent owners.
"Even though Acura extended the transmission warranty to I believe it 7/100k miles, it didn’t make me feel like it going to last without another failure."
All I can say is that the V6 Accords of around that time shared the same issue, and there wasn't a rash of multiple transmission failures on those cars of which I'm aware, and I visit LOTS of sites. At any rate, the current recall is for a completely different problem, and the earlier problem apparently has been solved. It's a pretty safe bet that we'd know by now if it hadn't been, with the number of gen 7 V6 Accords sold with the new automatic transmission design, since the earlier problems began to manifest themselves almost immediately.
So beyond that, I'm not sure what you expect to hear in response to your posts. Obviously there's no way that you're going to feel comfortable with Honda/Acura automatic transmissions, so my advice is to go with another brand. With any luck, you won't end up with a similar situation with another brand, such as the Toyota sludge problem or the recurring issues with your Olds Intrigue.
As I said before, no manufacturer is immune from these things, and even the best have the occasional problem. If you're expecting to have a guarantee of a totally problem free car, all I can do is to wish you lots of luck with that.
I went onto a Subaru WRX wagon, behind in reliability (average) and refinement/interior but any Subaru is more fun to drive than a Honda. The Acura TSX is great though.
My wife owns a problem free 96 Civic with 170k. Again problem free but she won't buy another Honda either since they don't offer a wagon. I know the masses don't like. She thinks the new Accord sedan is ugly.
For us Honda's appeal has run out. However in Europe we rented an incredible Honda of course not available here, an Accord Estate (wagon that I think is a derivation Acura TSX here). I guess we like boring cars in the US.
"...not to mention the beating their reputation for reliability was beginning to take on the Internet and in the press, they backed down and started covering some engine failures."
This is exactly what was happening to Honda. They were taking a beating on the Internet and even the press started reporting the transmission failures. Magically Honda started to scramble and issued a recall, they were taking a beating just like Toyota. They figured they could get away with it, but when the press finally picked up on it they had no choice.
Honda made the official announcement in September 2002. The Los Angeles Times had picked up on the transmission problem BEFORE the recall was announced. Go to a Honda forum and do a search, all the Honda fans were worried the story would hurt Honda's reputation. The Los Angeles Times is the one I know of right off hand, who knows how many small newspapers or other sources picked up on it beforehand.
And actually you and gee35coupe sound like PR guys for Honda. Here is what Honda said.
http://world.honda.com/news/2002/4020920.html
"While only two percent of these vehicles have experienced these transmission problems, American Honda will provide extended transmission warranties on all potentially affected vehicles. "Our priorities are making sure our customers are taken care of and reassured they can continue to depend on their Honda or Acura automobile for a long time to come," said Tom Elliott, executive vice president for American Honda."
254,000 Saturn L-series cars are recalled, but GM says only 7 have been reported catching on fire. This is well below 2 percent, but it's not acceptable. But when it's Honda, 2 percent is acceptable. When a Honda catches on fire it's acceptable, it's a fluke, but when it happens to another company there's no excuse.
And the way a vehicle is designed can CAUSE technician error also, you know. And considering these same technicians are working on hundreds of other types of cars and none of those other types are catching fire, the CR-V and it's design must still be considered as a possible cause.
I know what I posted, thank you. My point was about Toyota and your claim that they're the way to go regarding reliability. A claim with which I strongly disagree. Interesting that you have no reaction to that part of my post.
I never said that Honda did anything out of the goodness of their hearts... it's just that their handling of a major issue like this was orders of magnitude better than the denial and finger-pointing that Toyota did when they completely bungled the oil sludge situation.
"This is exactly what was happening to Honda. They were taking a beating on the Internet and even the press started reporting the transmission failures. Magically Honda started to scramble and issued a recall, they were taking a beating just like Toyota. They figured they could get away with it, but when the press finally picked up on it they had no choice."
I think you have your facts mixed up. Honda NEVER issued a recall on the transmissions in the earlier issue, in the same way that Toyota never issued a recall for the engines. Sorry, but no company is going to replace hundreds of thousands of transmissions as a preventative measure when the failure rate is at roughly 2%. Also, this failure was not a sudden one... obvious changes in the behavior of the transmission would manifest themselves long before the transmission would fail.
Likewise, Toyota never issued a recall on the engines for the same reason. However, one big difference is that Honda/Acura never denied that a problem existed, or tried to blame the owners for the problem. Which is exactly how Toyota reacted when the engine problems began to surface.
As I stated earlier, my Accord was among the first to get a transmission replacement. There was never any denial by Honda or any attempt to blame me for the problem. They just fixed it. Clearly, that wasn't the case with the Toyota engines.
Both Honda and Toyota were pressed into action by customer reaction and bad press. But again, their reactions were very different. Honda issued an extended warranty on the models that were potentially affected. However, they had been performing transmission replacements for over a year on cars that exhibited symptoms of an impending failure.
Toyota's response was to actually begin covering some claims that they had previously refused. And they offered a generous "special policy adjustment" for one year in Feb. 2002... during that year, they offered to replace any affected engines if the owner could provide proof of one oil change in the year prior.
However, based on the petition that I found, it appears that Toyota is still trying to dodge their responsibilities. For example, if a car that's still under warranty is sold and experiences the engine sludge failure, Toyota is refusing to cover it.
And all this time, they still maintain that it's the fault of the owners, even though there are many recorded cases of owners who followed the recommended oil change intervals and still experienced the sludge problem. Independent experts have investigated and found that the design of the Toyota V6 caused temperature changes in the oil of between 60 - 70 degrees between the block and the cylinder head. In the average engine, the temp change is between 10 - 15 degrees, which is considered the level that's not damaging to the oil. So of course this dramatically overheated oil is going to break down and cause sludge, even for those who change their oil as recommended. Yet Toyota denies any responsibility to this day.
So again, I have to vehemently disagree that Toyota is any better than Honda regarding either reliability or responsiveness to customer need. In the two cases cited, I contend that Honda took care of its owners much better than did Toyota.
"And actually you and gee35coupe sound like PR guys for Honda. Here is what Honda said."
Yeah, so we read the press release... so did thousands of others.
"254,000 Saturn L-series cars are recalled, but GM says only 7 have been reported catching on fire. This is well below 2 percent, but it's not acceptable. But when it's Honda, 2 percent is acceptable."
Yeah, the Saturn recall is a simple, very inexpensive one... here's the solution:
"Dealers will (1) replace the ignition control module, (2) replace the ignition control module and spark plugs, or (3) replace the ignition control module, spark plugs, and update the powertrain control module calibration."
That's a far cry from replacing a transmission. And it's very much like the Honda/Acura transmission recall for the current gen 5-speed automatics.
Many more CR-V's have done the same, NHTSA conducted a investigation and did NOT fault Honda. I hope you see the hypocrisy in your last few posts in reference to the Saturn-L and CR-V.
Extending the warranty is not a recall and wasn't mandated by the government. Maybe you could say it was goodwiill from Honda.
For a couple of reasons. First, some members are representing Toyota as superior to Honda in reliability because of the Honda transmission issues. And they're lumping two completely separate and distinct issues into one big "problem", when the truth of the matter is that the previous transmission problem actually affected 2000-2001 Accords (not sure of the Acura model years) and has NOT carried over into the new transmission design.
The recall on the current transmission design is a preventative measure that's intended to correct a situation that could lead to a serious failure in high mileage vehicles, in most cases those used for extensive towing. Rather than replacing a failed or about to fail transmission, Honda is attempting to nip the vast majority of potential failures in the bud. And they also have transmission replacement as an option for the very small percentage of vehicles that are likely to need them.
Anyway, the point was that to condemn Honda because of the earlier transmission problem and to promote Toyota as the "reliable alternative" is completely ignoring the comparably significant magnitude of the Toyota sludge problems. A situation that was made a lot worse by Toyota's ongoing position of denial, and their initial position of total inaction regarding the problem.
And the Lexus LS430 transmission/fuel pump recall is this years model.
There's no denying that.
Talon95 :: Of course I would not expect Honda to have replaced all transmissions, but I also would not expect a similar transmission problem to be still on going some 3-4 years later. Back in ’02 there were some that believed the Acura’s sport/shift and higher HP were part of the problem.
I don’t pretend fully understand the “details” of the various Honda model transmission problems, but the impression is, that the same “base” faulty design is still being installed in current models. My impression is that it appears to be isolated to any/all V6 5-speed AT, crossing the Acura & Honda lines, and still is an existing problem with today’s 03-04 Odyssey & Pilots.
Back on ’01 my decision to buy my 1st Honda product (Acura CL), was partly based on Honda’s legendary reputation, and I ended up getting burned on another first year model. I’m a sucker for the first years latest and greatest, but I thought I would have little or no problems with Acura or at least minimal. Who knew it would end up being major (transmission), which happen just before getting ready to leave on a long trip.
What happens to the poor soles, that think they are buying a reliable Honda/Acura vehicle just outside the standard/extended warranty period, and the transmission dies ??
One other thing, after my transmission was replaced, the car lacked its get-up-go that it had before. The gearing appeared setup less aggressive, in the end it I was somewhat disappointed with the results.
If they were trying to avoid admitting to any problems, why did they replace my transmission and many others, no questions asked, over a year prior to the announcement of the extended warranty? Perhaps they didn't publicize it initially, but they NEVER avoided responsibility. Which is much more than you can say about Toyota with the engine sludge debacle.
And I still don't get the obsession over the 2% figure. All that does is give one a sense of how widespread the problem is (or in this case, isn't). Honda isn't trying to use the 2% figure to avoid action on this issue. On the contrary, Honda is replacing the transmissions as necessary and has issued the extended warranty. In the face of the fact that the issue exists, I don't really know what more they can be expected to do. After all, even you admit that you don't expect Honda to replace all of the transmissions.
"I don’t pretend fully understand the “details” of the various Honda model transmission problems, but the impression is, that the same “base” faulty design is still being installed in current models. My impression is that it appears to be isolated to any/all V6 5-speed AT, crossing the Acura & Honda lines, and still is an existing problem with today’s 03-04 Odyssey & Pilots."
That's not my impression... I frequent many different sites that cover Accords, and I have yet to see ANY complaints about the Gen 7 V6 models that suggest that they share the torque converter problem with the earlier designs. Given how quickly the problems manifested themselves initially, we'd certainly have heard something by now. So I disagree with your contention that the earlier problem has carried over into the new transmission design.
My figures were older (as stated in my original post), so I'll take yours as the more accurate.
I have to wonder what happened to the other Mazda dealerships (or the way they are counted). Daniel Heraud's 2001 revice of the Tribute listed Mazda as having 850 retailers. I can understand how Honda has grown, but not Mazda shrinking.
Of course, the NHTSA reserves the right to reopen the investigation as more information becomes available. So we may see more action on this.
Their initial conclusion was that the majority of fires and leaks were caused by pinched or stacked gaskets. These gasket installation errors allowed oil to spill out and potentially be ignited by hot exhaust components.
No 2002 vehicles were included in the investigation. That does not mean that it did not happen to any 2002 models. They could have leaked and been fixed. Or they caught fire and were sent to the junk yard. Since the investigation did not start until late 2003 at the earliest, those 2002 models would no longer be fit for investigation (dismantled or scrapped).
The Element is very similar to the CR-V, so it could share the same problem. However, the rate of issues is so minute it's entirely possible that Element owners simply benefit from dumb luck.
Essentially, the jury is still out. There is not enough evidence to draw any conclusions.
But doesn't look any of that happened. And NHTSA investigated all reportes that they had at the time and did NOT recommend a recall. That says more than anything. I mean these are FIRES that destroy entire vehicles. If there were any fault that could attributed to Honda you would think NHTSA would err on safety and recall the vehicle. But they didn't and issued a news release staing they agreed technician error was the most likely cause. That's important.
So was this done out of good will for their customers? In my opinion no. Is it coincidence that the announcement came after that article in the LA Times was posted? In my opinion no. Honda saw some very bad PR possibilities and decided NOW was the time to announce SOMETHING to show that they would stand behind their product. If they were replacing everyone's transmissions with no problem then they would have done it a long time ago, unless they completely had no clue on how to make the transmission right, which is possible since some people went through as many as 3 transmissions.
And by the way, I've heard several people on the internet that had to pay out of pocket for a transmission since it was out of warranty. This was before the extended warranty announcement obviously. Of course they were supposedly reimbursed after the announcement, but before the announcement? No, they paid out of pocket. Of course this is going by what people said on the internet, I have no source to back that up so take it for what it's worth.
And for the record I trust Toyota as much as I do Honda. I don't think there's any car company that fully takes care of their customers. They're running a business and if it's not in their best interest they won't replace transmissions or engines. Actually if we want to say Honda is better in that regard that's ok with me, but neither company always does the right thing for the customer, this is something to be expected.
"Essentially, the jury is still out. There is not enough evidence to draw any conclusions."
So wherever you're getting your info from, can we conclude this as well or are they firmly convinced it was the technician's fault? You can make things easier just by posting the source.
Make : HONDA Model: CR-V
Manufacturer : AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO. Year : 2003
Component : ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
Date Investigation Opened : February 19, 2004
Date Investigation Closed : July 1, 2004
Summary:
THIS INVESTIGATION IDENTIFIED 32 INCIDENTS OF OIL FILTER LEAKAGE IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLE POPULATION, WITH 22 RESULTING IN VEHICLE FIRES. ALL OF THE INCIDENTS OCCURRED FOLLOWING OIL CHANGES. HONDA'S INVESTIGATION OF 14 OF THE FIRE INCIDENTS DETERMINED THAT "FIVE OIL FILTERS HAD STACKED SEALS (DOUBLE-GASKETING), AND NINE OIL FILTERS HAD DISTORTED OR PINCHED SEALS." ACCORDING TO HONDA, BOTH CONDITIONS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO FOLLOW NECESSARY REPAIR PROCEDURES. STACKED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE OF THE SERVICE TECHNICIAN TO REMOVE THE OLD SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLING THE NEW FILTER AND SEAL. DISTORTED OR PINCHED SEALS RESULT FROM FAILURE TO PROPERLY LUBRICATE THE NEW SEAL PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. OIL LEAKAGE FROM A STACKED, DISTORTED, OR PINCHED SEAL CAN BE IGNITED BY HEAT FROM THE EXHAUST SYSTEM, WHICH IS LOCATED NEAR THE OIL FILTER IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES. HONDA WILL ISSUE COMMUNICATIONS TO ITS DEALERS WARNING OF THE NECESSITY TO FOLLOW CORRECT PROCEDURES WHEN REPLACING OIL FILTERS IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES AND OF THE POTENTIAL FOR VEHICLE FIRES TO RESULT FROM IMPROPER REPAIRS. ODI WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THE ALLEGED DEFECT IN MY 2003 AND LATER CR-V VEHICLES. THIS INVESTIGATION IS CLOSED. THE CLOSING OF THIS INVESTIGATION DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A FINDING BY NHTSA THAT NO SAFETY-RELATED DEFECT EXISTS. THE AGENCY WILL TAKE FURTHER ACTION IF WARRANTED BY THE CIRCUMSTANCES.
Notice they explicitly state they are continuing to monitor and that the closure of the investigation does NOT constitute a finding, and the only explanation of the issue is provided by Honda itself, who of course will not implicate themselves in the investigation because of legality issues.
Meaning Honda is convinced that it's the fault of the techs, but the jury is still out.
I'm sure if there were any 2002's reported to NHTSA, they would have been included in the investigation. Especially if they conformed to the "right after oil change" scenario.
So let me get this straight...Honda had to do SOMETHING to show they would stand behind the product so they extended the warranty on trasmissions. Not to mention the BAAAD PR.
Honda provided NHTSA with a reason for the fires that would not implicate themselves when the problem in question could actually cause a fire that would kill people? If it's determined Honda knew the cause, the penalty would be dear. Civilly and criminally.
Honda's "run" is doing fine though. You know, since that IS what we are trying to determine.
My point exactly. Yes, I railed on Toyota pretty mercilessly, but it was just to demonstrate that if you think that Honda mistreated their customers with the earlier transmission issue, Toyota did the same or arguably worse under similar circumstances. I guess the bottom line is that none of the Honda or Toyota execs involved in the handling of these major issues are likely to be candidates for sainthood....
"And for the record I trust Toyota as much as I do Honda."
The same goes for me for the most part. Although I personally prefer many design aspects and performance characteristics of Hondas over comparable Toyotas, I have no qualms about recommending a Toyota to someone if that's the vehicle that seems to be the best fit for their needs. In fact, I've done so several times in the past. However, I do have some personal experience with Toyota that ranged from less than impressive to quite disturbing from a customer satisfaction perspective. So I still give a bit of an edge to Honda, based on my own interaction with both companies. Obviously, YMMV.
Or snows, as it does here in the Northeast...
Honda does have models like this in other parts of the world, but chooses not to go to the trouble of bringing them to the U.S. One of the differences between Honda and Subaru in America is volume. Honda is a big volume player, and in that bigger picture small-volume sport models like these just don't make a great business case. Although looking at how many WRXs Subie has sold now in the last four years makes one think that THIS PARTICULAR sport model would have been worth Honda's while.
Subie also doesn't have an "upscale brand" whose toes it is trying to avoid stepping on. Get into mid-$20s high-power sport models with Honda badges on them, and people are going to wonder what low-$20s RSXs are doing labelled "Acura" (although I say go back to calling it the Honda Integra if it means we could get some of the serious sport Civic models here). As they already do a little with the S2000.
Look at the European Civic type-R. How I would dearly love to see THAT come to the States next year with the Civic update! And how about a 5-door hatch (they have one there right now) with the same powertrain. Blow all these other guys ('06 Focus SVT, Neon SRT-4, WRX) out of the water for a minute, or at least give them some honest competition.
One has to wonder what exactly was the magic formula that the WRX had, that caused it to sell so darn well. If it can be found, perhaps Honda can do it one better. Or maybe now that WRX has spawned all the imitators, perhaps the segment is just too flooded, I dunno.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
There are quite a few Susp. packages (from Mugen and others) to tighten up the suspension however. The Honda special package is here,
http://hondanews.com/CatID2104?mid=2003071549412&mime=asc
This is a more comfortable package unfortunately -- not an out-and-out rally package like the Mitsubishi Evo series...
Any engine damage that occurs due to improper recommendations should be covered under warranty. I know I have never folowed a 3000 mile regimen and I have never had a problem with sludge or oil related engine damage. Besides if 3000 mile oil changes were required to keep a car on the road, there would be very few used cars out there. Most folk aren't that diligent.
I hear people citing this 1.5-2% number over and over again.
Who came up with this number? How?
Wouldn't the failure rate go up as more time goes by?
I heard this number a couple years ago. Is it still at 1.5-2%?
If Honda is the source of these numbers, how do they know?
They would have to know the source of the problem and if they know that it is only 1.5-2%, why don't they just recall that 1.5-2% of the cars that will be affected and be done with it?
If they know it's only 1.5-2%, they should know the specific cars that will be affected. ie) a VIN range
If they don't know that, then the 1.5-2% is a guess, and it's an old guess.
As to tranny replacements, if a component is deemed defective in design so that all of them are reasonably expected to fail prematurely, than they should be replaced in advance. But, if the failure is something that is only expected to affect a small percentage of cars (that is, most trannys will have a normal life span), than waiting for a failure to occur is appropriate.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Subie are nice for what they are, but they are too small & over priced.
Oil changes on 3k intervals is overkill in most all cases, especially when some manuals are recommending 7,500 miles. So I split the difference at 5k, makes remembering when a whole lot easier 5/10/15/20 etc. etc.
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=269463
I remember when they had 2 or 3 vehicles enhanced in minor ways, and absolutely bullet-proof. Has Honda changed their direction and lost their way? My mother-in-law has a new Accord (on my advice). It rattles. It's a very nice car, but it woulda been against the law for an old Honda to rattle.
It seems the problem with the CRV catching fire is still continuing.
They changed from a small, niche maufactuer of a limited line of well done cars to a "Mainstream" car company. In other words, they got big. Now they're doing the same dance GM, Toyota, et al do.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)