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Has Honda's run - run out?
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1- Toyota Camry: ------------------------------ 98,504 up 4%
2- Toyota Corolla: ----------------------------- 81,658 up 10%
3- Honda Accord: ------------------------------ 77,371 down 6%
4- Chevy Impala: ------------------------------- 64,328 down 11%
5- Nissan Altima: ------------------------------ 61,468 down 1%
6- Honda Civic: ---------------------------------- 59,255 down 18%
7- Ford Taurus: ---------------------------------- 55,114 down 20%
8- Ford Focus: ----------------------------------- 46,666 down 3%
9- Chevy Malibu: -------------------------------- 45,792 up 58%
10- Ford Mustang: ----------------------------- 42,261 up 16%
Don't really know why, but Toyota is really kicking Honda's butt in sales. The '06 Civic and the mid cycle "freshening" of the Accord can't come soon enough.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
-juice
Civic volumes are the only real story in Honda sales.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think some of it is driven by the fact that Toyota is more aggressive with rebates/incentives, but styling also plays a part - for Honda's sake I hope they do a good job on the 2006 mid-cycle 'freshening' - get rid of the 'upside down' headlights and tail-lights on the Accord, for one thing.
-juice
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I actually prefer dealer incentives because in my state (MD) you pay sales tax on the price before rebates. Dealer incentives lower the price and therefore lower the tax you pay as well.
-juice
Toyota is also steadily increasing rebates and fleet sales. They were offering $750 on 05 Camrys back in 2004. Now that's up to $1000. For the Accord to be staying strong when you can get a Camry, 6, and Altima for around $16,000 for the mostly well-equipped models isn't anything to justify the "Honda is going down" mentality. Also, most cars do slow down in their last production year. As Honda prepares for the 06 Civic they probably aren't building quite as many. Keep in mind the Civic is in it's 5th year against a newly redesigned 3, the Corolla is a couple of years newer, the Focus has been "redesigned" by Ford standards, etc.
The 60K units to fleets is a real number, but it is outdated. That figure comes from a report published in 2003, which probably referenced the 2002 calendar year. The Camry was in the top 10 for fleet sales. It's the most recent single figure I have for the Camry. Most other reports focus on percetages for the whole brand, so they don't really apply to this discussion.
I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation of the Civic - which is supposedly moving upmarket - doesn't put pressure on the DX versions of the Accord, which may further hamper sales.
Just FYI - Taurus was second to Honda for a long time, and then first during 92-96. Then second to Camry. It is not like Camry competed with Accord, rather it competed with Taurus. Those who buy Camry don't even consider Accord.
New Fusion will take on Accord for sure. So don't be afraid of Camry - be afraid of Fusion.
They still make a DX Accord? I don't think anyone would notice a sales decline if both units weren't sold next year. Let the Civic take that slot, and the new smaller car pick up the Civic VP slack.
The Fusion, if done right, will make a much bigger sales impact than the 6, just because of the dealer network and name. Is it at least stretched a bit for more interior room (dont want another COntour scenerio).
Big reason Accord sales are a bit off (but certainly not ready for life support)? Competition. Not just Camry, but the other "off" brands are much stronger. And, since they tend to trend toward the "sporty" side, they probably take a biger bite out of the Accord, since the Camry is and has always been a mind-numbing appliace. The Accord at least used to be more of a drivers car.
That's the downside to moving upsize and "maturing" the Accord. Losing the next wave of younger family buyers. Hopefully the Civic captures them.
A refresh of the Accord styling wouldn't hurt either.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
You sure about that? I know a few people who would disprove the assertion.
I do think that Accord is still considered the cooler choice between the two, although neither will hold a candle to VW, for instance, on the cool front.
Malibu: someone reported in another thread that a WSJ article yesterday stated that half of Malibu sales last month were to fleets. That's a lot.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As for the Malibu - the sales numbers include both the "old" Malibu, which is 100% fleet and the "new" Malibu which isn't much in fleets, so it averages out to 50%.
This is one time when Honda should break its time-honored tradition and release information on the '06 Civic immediately. It could use the buzz.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I agree, if the new Malibu is already 50% fleet, considering that the "classic" is 100% fleet, that's bad....I don't think that's quite the case.
ps. they pretty much showed the '06 Civic coupe at the Chicago show - they said that "concept" was about 90% of the production car
They have stopped building the Classic, I believe. It got killed finally at the same time they stopped building the Grand Am.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"Malibu": 20,022
"Malibu '04": 21,356
"Malibu Maxx": 4,340
Autosite isn't listing a "Classic", so I'm guessing that "Malibu" refers to the Classic and "Malibu '04" refers to the new Malibu?
The Grand Am sold 10,468 units in Jan/Feb. For some reason, they're not showing sales for the G6.
And, of course, this is only through February. A lot could have happened in March.
My expectation is that the mid-life refresh will help correct problem #2.
However, there's little Honda can do about #1 - the competition. The Passat, Altima, Mazda6, and others are good cars. They have finally figured out what it takes to compete in this segment. I doubt that any one car will dominate for long. There are things which Honda could do to make the Accord better - SHAWD and a 3.2L engine, for example. But then profits would hurt, the TL would get pinched, and the mission of the car would change.
I think Honda will have to replace Accord sales with other vehicles. And I don't think that's a bad thing.
Since then, the Focus has received a number of upgrades and Ford has worked the bugs out. But now the Mazda3 offers everything the Focus has, plus a fresher package.
Fusion. I would prefer Milan, but point is that Ford always sells more than Mazda, always. So real competition comes from Ford rather than Mazda or Mercury.
Accord. Accord is very different from Camry. Camry owners whom I know declared that Accord was out of their radar, because they appreciate roomy, comfortable, smooth and quiet cars. May be Buick (for some) but certainly not Accord - too small and noisy.
Malibu. Even less exciting than Camry. Probably price is not right. Quirky steering wheel design and numb steering, typical for GM unexplainable cheap feeling all around, also unexplainable GM's commintment to pushrods. 4 cylinder still could sale. I see what is wrong with Malibu (and G6). I am wondering why Lutz being a car guy does not see it.
GM's major problem isn't pushrods, it's the lack of smoothness on their engines. Even their "high feature" DOHC Ecotec 4 sounds like a rattletrap.. Compared to the smoothness of engines from Honda or Mazda it's EXTREMELY noticeable. And when you rev one of these GMs, forget it. They honestly sound like they do NOT want to be there, so to speak.
What magazine editors think of a car does not make it best for everyone, so that is not fact or anything. :-)
Is Focus a contender? Yes. Does it prove to be the best for everyone? Well, probably not, since it is not the top seller. Corolla and Civic both sell better, I think.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The CR-V and Element share a platform, and engine, too. So the Element cost little/nothing to add. We'll see how different the RDX is, but surely it will share some components with other models.
Insight is a green halo car, but honestly I think at this point it makes no financial sense at all and the bean counter in me would phase that out.
RSX/Euro Civic Si will probably merge into one product, and in fact that product will be the US Civic
So the lineup will be streamlined as well.
-juice
For now, yeah. But neither one is available in hatchback trim, which is going to hurt sales since hatches are becoming popular again (Focus, Spectra5, Elantra, Mazda3, Reno, Impreza, HHR, PT Cruiser, the next Neon).
Come to think of it, if you count the Matrix as a Corolla, then Toyota has a hatch too. That leaves only Honda and Nissan (well, and Saturn) without hatch trims in their small cars next year. And since the Saturn and Nissan are both junk that no one cares about anyway they likely won't be affected. But Honda's going to lose sales by not having a hatch option like other manufacturers do. They've already stated the hatch trim will NOT be coming to the US. That may end up being Honda's newest mistake (Their last mistake was this last Civic, heh).
About two years ago I test drove a Civic EX sedan, a Focus ZTW wagon and Saturn Ion 3. The Ion was awful, with no real redeeming features; the Civic had the best drivetrain; but the Focus easily won in the ride-and-handling department.
Given the availability of the wagon, I probably would have bought the Focus, but I decided to move up a notch in size, and get an Accord instead.
As for the Accord - when this generation debuted, Honda specifically said that it did not expect sales to increase. So a sales decline isn't that much of a shocker, especially since in-house competition from the Acura TSX and Honda Pilot probably has hurt the Accord as much as anything else.
In IIHS side impact tests the Focus did pretty bad with a high chance for injury. It did so bad that Consumer Reports stopped recommending the Focus even though they said it was an OK all-around car.
You can't compare the Focus' shaky 5 year reliability record with the Civic's much longer and more impressive history.
That's why we buy Honda, Toyota, and Lexus vehicles.
i don't want to bash anyone. i just want to post on my good experience, so far.
Not everyone that needs utility needs a giagantic Ody, or wants a trucky Pilot.
Won't happen, but might help.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Passat - Far worse reliability and warranty attitude from VW, which is why VW is in deep trouble in US.
Altima - Not as refined, safe, solid or nice an interior.
Mazda6 - Accord has more upscale interior and better resale value but Mazda has edge in handling.
All Honda need do to Accord is improve styling of 4 door and make a model with far more aggressive handling for those that want handling over comfort.