Honda Insight
Hello. I have a 2000 Honda Hybrid that I take EVERYWHERE I go. It has about 120k and ALL the work that has been done is 1 tire set at 80k, oil changes at 3500 miles and a EGR valve at 85k. I get about 56-60 mpg using all types of driving styles and have switched to a larger tire for better road handling. I have a manual tranmission that is not as quick as a Auto. I do use the AC on Econ mostly, but have used it going to Tahoe up the grades. Going to Las Vegas, we rec. approx 63 mpg and when I went to Bridgeport, Ca. I got 71 coming back to Los Angeles. It is the BEST car that I have EVER owned!! Our next one will be a Civic Hybrid and we will keep the Insight. GET ONE!!!!!!!!
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#1 what tire upgrade did you do? How much did it affect your mileage.
The current Insight has the basic looks and design of the old CRX.
I think it would be cool if Honda brought a hybrid vehicle along the same design as the Del Sol as the next version of the Insight.
Obviously the convertable feature wouldn't help fuel economy much but they could instead turn it into somewhat of a hybrid performance vehicle.
Just a thought. Mainly because I like the Del Sols and I wouldn't mind buying one in the future preferrably a new one. ;-)
In any event does anyone know if Honda is canceling the Insight all together or are they just going to redesign it into something else? If anything I would see Honda designing it into another sporty type car if they kept the nameplate.
Since Insight never returned profit unlike Prius, I don't think Honda is going to release a new redesign model.
Dennis
___Actually, it appears that the Insight will be available for the 2005 MY.
___In regards to profit on the Prius, have you seen someone state this as fact yet?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
"Toyota Motor Corp posted on Tuesday(May 11, 2004) a double-digit rise in annual profits as it slashed costs and drove sales higher in every major market, and forecast another strong year as it rolls out one hit model after another."
"Toyota, whose stock value of $120 billion exceeds the combined worth of the U.S. "Big Three" -- General Motors, Ford and DaimlerChrysler AG"
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4951189/
With profits returning like this, would Toyota be loosing money on every Prius they sold? They plan to offer hybrid models in all line of vehicles by 2010. I only see profits just going up. Better buy Toyota stock now. LOL.
Dennis
___I have been watching Toyota’s total sales and increasing profits for what seems like forever That does not make the Prius profitable by any stretch. When I see that verified fact posted, I will post it all over the net myself!
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
That sounds great Insight for 2005 MY. How reliable is your information? Could you please indicate or post the source?
Thanks,
MidCow
___It was first seen here: http://www.topgear.com/content/news/cars_coming_soon/03/ with rolling commentary from the Insighter’s over at Insightcentral dot net afterwards
___There is at least one dealer saying the same but until one arrives many are actually hoping it’s the Insight II w/ even lower weight, higher performance, and even better fuel economy but Honda as usual is very tight lipped.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_10_183/ai- _109505549
http://www.auho.com/talk/index.php?showtopic=806
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100603A.html
http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/oil/1312.html
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
___There is a guy out of Washington state (an Internet friend of mine) that cleans the bottom of his Insight including waxing behind the rims every 3 or so weeks! His Insight is so clean you could eat off the bottom, top, side, and interior ;-) In actuality, he takes it to car shows almost weekly so that is why its so meticulously maintained.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
YMMV,
MidCow
P.S.- Oh to give up power for mileage!
I think now that Honda has mainstreamed hybrid technology into the civic and soon the Accord, that they should look at turning insight platform into a replacement CRX; imagine what that car could do with the 1.6 and 1.7 liter engines honda has produced in the last few years.
Problems with this:
1. They will not be including any advances in hybrid technology (batteries, motors, wiring, etc.) that they've learned. So, should one buy a Civic or Accord hybrid instead? Are/Will they be significantly "better" because they are "newer" technology?
2. I can't believe there was no room for any improvement. Can you say that "everything" in the 2004 is "perfect"? That there was nothing learned from warranty repairs, etc. that could have been corrected/adjusted for 2005?
3. Would have been really nice to get a different color interior.... I really have a problem with that brown/tan they use! I can't understand why they didn't choose grey, which would have gone beautifully with the three available external colors.
And, I can't find any statement as to how many they expect to build for 2005. Will they purposely keep the number small so that dealers won't need to discount? Or will there be plenty available once they start rolling in? I know at the end of the 2004 model year dealers here were discounting left-over Civic hybrids.
(If both of the above statements are true, then it is not a full hybrid, since a full hybrid will use only the electric motor for starting and most around-town driving, unless the batteries are low or if the driver demands more power.)
However, this may be a moot point, since the Insight's fuel economy is so high as it is...
Not asking for a "new" interior; just to manufacture all existing parts in a different color... don't even have to offer two colors!
___The Insight will be available in 2005 w/ no changes. It will be available to those that order one as of this writing. If you order one through your Honda dealership, you can expect to pay close to or at MSRP. You might find a dealership to order one for a grand or so over Invoice if you place a non-refundable large percentage of MSRP down payment possibly? MSRP or anything close to that price for any Hybrid is ridiculous imho. 2004 MY Insight’s production was halted in early summer IIRC and the same can be expected for 2005 if history repeats itself.
___Given the Insight’s low volume and unprofitable status per vehicle built, Honda is not going to improve upon there current capabilities or attributes at this point in time. Maybe if gasoline climbed to $6.00/gallon or more and people finally got serious about fuel economy and purchased boatloads of Insight’s, Honda might invest in improvements or an Insight II. As it stands, Honda still has the highest fuel economy capable automobile in the Insight available anywhere including the POS Lupo available in Europe.
___As for the mild/full hybrid discussion. I don’t know of any automobile available to us anywhere that has hit > 95 mpg in the city or > 115 mpg out on the highway. With that, the Insight 5-speed is your best choice for maximum fuel economy available anywhere. An Insight also forces one to sacrifice in areas one may not wish too. Some of these sacrifices include performance, ride, and handling and are inherent sacrifices to all hybrids available to date in one form or another. All of this doesn’t really matter of course because if you want greater fuel economy; you can achieve it from the vehicle you currently drive if you so desire. Unfortunately, the practical fuel economy limits of all other automobiles can not come close to the fuel economy capabilities of an Insight 5-speed no matter how much we all wish our present automobiles (Hybrid’s, Diesel’s, or std. ICE’s) fuel economy to improve
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___2000 Honda Insight 5-speed #203 - 92.5 lmpg
How much lower MPG do you think there would be for the CVT? Your mileage is MUCH above the EPA estimates. Wonder if the continuously-variable transmission model could also be expected to beat the estimates?
Have you ever experienced problems with the gas engine restarting so often (sounds like it will cycle on and off at every stop in city driving... quite an exercise for a starter)?
The problem is that they are not in demand.
Honda keeps making them because they can have the bragging rights for the highest mpg vehicle. This gets a lot of free publicity for Honda.
XCEL is a pretty phenomenal driver for getting high mileage. I don't think many people can come close to what he can do. However, I think you can reasonably expect to get the EPA estimates and maybe a little better if you follow guidelines for getting maximum mileage.
YMMV,
MidCow
As for the starter, the insight does not use a conventional starter (except as a backup). The electric motor part of the drivetrain is used to start the gas engine.
You have a 5-speed Insight. How well does the Insight AC coll down on hot (above 90 degreess0 days?
I had a 1995 Acura Integra GSR and it colled very slow, maybe 5 minutes before you had real cold air. After I put in a cold air intake ( clear up a lot of the space take up by the factory air filter) it cooled much faster, taking only 1 minute.
YMMV,
MidCow
P.S.- If I could ever find a car dealer that had a 5-speed Insight in stock that I could test drive, I might buy one. I am just not sure if I could handle the perfomance. However, I have test driven a Jetta TDI 5-speed twice and was pleased with the performance.
P.S.S. -Wayne thanks for all of your insight and comments on the Hybrid forums. I for one really appreciate your knowledge and your point of view. Most of the time I fully agree with you!
Xcel is a master at squeezing everything possible from a gallon of gas but I agree anyone who wants better MPG from whatever they drive can do so with some simple steps http://www.drivecleanacrosstexas.org/ - Astros in 7 !
My question about the air conditioning was because I agree with Rob , almost all cars I have driven except for one : 1995 Acura Integra GSR, had more than adequate cooling.
Billy, Thanks for your answers.
YMMV,
MidCow
P.S- Just put new tires, brakes, radiator flush on my commuter car. So I guess it will last a little longer.
Seriously, I'd like to know.
I own an Insight and it always amazes me when people come up to me and say, "How slow is it?" (shaking head) I wish people would stop making assumptions.
Anyway, the Insight has a top speed of ~120 mph, and 10.5 second 0-60 acceleration. It's not slow. And the A/C gets so cold I need a winter jacket.
The Insight is just like any other <100 hp car (Focus, Echo, Beetle, et cetera).
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm has info on mpg and emissions. I selected the year, Honda, and Insight and it gave me info (and had links to other info) about various versions of an Insight. It seems I should be looking for an SULEV version in automatic because that's the only version that does both high mpg and low greenhouse gas emissions.
I have several questions:
(1) The other day I looked under the hood of a 2002 Insight at a used-car dealer near me and neither the salesperson nor I could see the version (SULEV, ULEV, ...) listed anywhere. Is there a foolproof way to find out the version?
(2) Is it correct that if I want high mpg AND low greenhouse gas emissions, I need to find an SULEV+automatic? It seems that some of the versions have not very good emissions, but maybe I'm not interpreting that correctly.
(3) To find an SULEV, would I need to get a car from California? Or do cars that meet the SULEV standard get sold elsewhere, even when new? Or are all Insights for the US market manufactured to meet the California standards (SULEV?), as my mechanic guesses?
(4) If a Insight isn't an SULEV, can it be tuned by an everyday mechanic to have as low greenhouse gas emissions as an SULEV? (My mechanic says he doesn't have any information on variations in tuning Insights.)
(5) Is there a way to get an analog reading of mph and mpg while driving? (An Insight I drove earlier this year--a 2000--had a always-changing digital reading of mph or mpg or both (I forget which), and I could see it might give me a headache in time.)
(6) An Insight is pretty small. Does that make it less crashworthy? I do a lot of commuting on an interstate.
(7) Is there year an Insight year that's especially reliable?
(8) I don't see any online listings of Insights for sale that lists what version (SULEV, etc.) the car is. Is there a listing that does?
(9) Am I going way overboard with this, in the sense that every Insight has such good emissions that going to great lengths to get the best emissions is foolish? I can't tell how much difference the difference makes.
Thank you for your help. I'm not very car savvy, and yet I'd like to do this if I have a reasonable amount of confidence that I know what I'm doing.
It is all confusing. I can tell you the SULEV rated Insight was produced for CA and the other CARB states. Also the CVT Insight gets about 9 mpg less than the Manual. The manual transmission Insight will put out less GHG than the CVT model. I would look for the best used Insight you can find. Preferably with some warranty left on it. No matter which version you get it will be very Clean and Green compared to most cars on the road. And best of all you are saving a lot of money on gas.
___Hopefully the following will help?
(1) The other day I looked under the hood of a 2002 Insight at a used-car dealer near me and neither the salesperson nor I could see the version (SULEV, ULEV, ...) listed anywhere. Is there a foolproof way to find out the version?
___On my 5-speed, there is a sticker on both the back rear window and underneath the hood (look up, not down). The one on the rear window states “ULEV” (it is if run on low sulfur fuel) and the other under the hood shows Federal NLEV and California LEV compliance.
(2) Is it correct that if I want high mpg AND low greenhouse gas emissions, I need to find an SULEV + automatic? It seems that some of the versions have not very good emissions, but maybe I'm not interpreting that correctly.
___No. GHG and high fuel economy are directly related. The Insight CVT’s (not the manual) are offered in SULEV format (SMOG forming emissions are great but its GHG emissions are just good). The CVT’s lack Lean burn and thus their actual and possible Fuel Economy is pathetic by comparison. I have read of 2 or 3 CVT’s receiving into the low 70’s for a segment distance whereas the 5-speeds (ULEV rated on low sulfur fuel) have easily surpassed 100 + mpg on both segments and whole tanks. This is where the GHG savings are actually achieved. SULEV is great for reducing SMOG forming emissions but it won’t reduce GHG emissions in comparison to the 5-speed and it will not save you money at the pump much more if any then a std. Prius II will. I see too many mid 40 to low 50 mpg Insight CVT’s around unfortunately.
(3) To find an SULEV, would I need to get a car from California? Or do cars that meet the SULEV standard get sold elsewhere, even when new? Or are all Insights for the US market manufactured to meet the California standards (SULEV?), as my mechanic guesses?
___You might not find an Insight at all because they are now special order only and that window is closing up fast. If you find a new CVT on a lot, it will be SULEV-II rated.
(4) If a Insight isn't an SULEV, can it be tuned by an everyday mechanic to have as low greenhouse gas emissions as an SULEV? (My mechanic says he doesn't have any information on variations in tuning Insights.)
___Again. GHG’s are directly related to your Fuel Economy. A CVT has far less capability for reducing GHG emissions then a 5-Speed. Having a mechanic tune anything is asking for trouble in regards to emissions but there are hundreds of things you can do to achieve higher Fuel Economy with the Insight 5-speed being the top of the list as far as right off the lot.
(5) Is there a way to get an analog reading of mph and mpg while driving? (An Insight I drove earlier this year--a 2000--had a always-changing digital reading of mph or mpg or both (I forget which), and I could see it might give me a headache in time.)
___You can turn off both the Instantaneous and the indicated fuel economy over the distance but if you want to reduce GHG’s, maximum fuel economy is achieved by a study of the gauges over what ever terrain/temperature, weather conditions you are currently traversing. I wouldn’t turn off these indications as they are a godsend for those of us that push the Insight to its extremes in terms of hypermile fuel economy and reducing GHG’s.
(6) An Insight is pretty small. Does that make it less crashworthy? I do a lot of commuting on an interstate.
___The smaller the vehicle, the higher the probability of injury in a collision with a larger vehicle. This is true no matter what size the car. As it stands, the Insight actually does pretty well for a vehicle in its class. The Honda Insight is rated by the NHTSA with 4 Stars out of 5 for frontal driver, frontal passenger, side impact - front seat, and Rollover.
(7) Is there year an Insight year that's especially reliable?
___The Insight has changed very little from the 2000 MY to the 2005’s so reliability will probably be ~ equal.
(8) I don't see any online listings of Insights for sale that lists what version (SULEV, etc.) the car is. Is there a listing that does?
___Honda.com --> Automobiles --> Honda --> Insight --> Specifications. This will tell you most of what you need to know.
(9) Am I going way overboard with this, in the sense that every Insight has such good emissions that going to great lengths to get the best emissions is foolish? I can't tell how much difference the difference makes.
___Not really. If you are purchasing an Insight to reduce GHG’s and save the planet, the 5-speed is what you want although on high sulfur fuel it is only LEV rated. If you want to reduce SMOG related emissions, the CVT is cleaner but its Fuel Economy and performance are abysmal by comparison. I would consider an HCH or Prius II if you really want a CVT based automatic.
Thank you for your help. I'm not very car savvy, and yet I'd like to do this if I have a reasonable amount of confidence that I know what I'm doing.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___2000 Honda Insight 5-speed lmpg (lifetime miles per gallon) = 92.5 mpg
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/details.php?cid=54
(10) I've had Honda's before. They all seem to do poorly at heating the passenger compartment in the winter. In the Insight the same? Or did they make the heater work better in the Insight?
___No, there is not a problem with heat as the Auto-climate in the Insight works great indeed. With that being said, the more heat you use in the winter, the cooler the coolant temperature and the lower your Fuel Economy. The same in summer heat with heavy A/C use. A/C will knock a 5-speed’s lean burn capability to 0 so you are back to maybe 55 mpg type numbers with A/C in use while out on the highway. The Hybrid’s ICE’s aren’t big hulking 5.0 L V8’s so they don’t have the spare capacity to achieve both outrageous fuel economy while supplying you with absolute comfort in all climates. They will supply you with whatever temperature you need but at the expense of quite a bit of fuel economy. Oh, and in the heat of summer, the A/C when idling maybe not keep up with your own demands. Out on the highway or while tooling around town it will be fine but at idle, you might find it to be lacking a bit.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
P.S. If the Insight is discontinued, is Honda likely to keep supplying parts?
I dont see the 2005 model in Honda's website itself
while it is available for all other models.
Honda must have designed it as a 4-Seater vehicle
using its hatchback design. After all smaller
Mini seats 4.
Sad indeed.
___They are tough to get and will be discontinued early in the year just like the 04’s if they have not been discontinued already but there is a shipment of 05’s heading to the West Coast as we speak. A friend of mine actually has a delivery date for one into the Seattle area in just a few days. He has owned 2 previous and is actually hoping his latest to be the last available anywhere for not only its very unique attributes but its last of a kind status as well ;-)
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes