By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Accord might get it a little later. And if it does, I think Honda should offer it in LX and EX trims, instead of starting with EX-L. But it is also likely they will pick only one trim to start with until production/sales find a balance.
Even if the diesel can get 300+ lb-ft, it still needs reasonable horsepower to go with it, or else it could be tough sell.
"The new engine is said to be a 3.5L diesel unit that’s 30% more fuel efficient that an equivalent petrol models. Diesel engines also emit close to 20% less carbon-dioxide but do release harmful nitrogen oxides and particulates." (link)
I hope they will be available in fairly maxxed trim level, with manual-trans. Honda makes sweet manual trannies & shifters. It's about time VW got some competition in the diesel-car-geek segment!
I just returned from a trip from New York to Roanoke. I travelled about 480 miles each way through New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, West Virginia and Virginia.
The price per gallon of Diesel fuel was consistantly twenty to fifty cents per gallon more than regular grade gasoline.
Could be, but there are incredible numbers of over-the-road tractor trailers out there buying Diesel fuel at those inflated prices. That's got to mean much higher prices for EVERYTHING that we buy that is carried by truck.
Yeah, here in California regular unleaded is $3.06 a gallon and diesel is $3.32. That's less than 10% higher. Considering diesel has 15% more energy per gallon and also a diesel engine is about 15% more economical than a gas engine, you will still be money ahead in the $/mile travelled department. and that is not taking into consideration the positive environmental effects relative to a gasoline engine.
Why is it taking so long to get the diesels popular in the USA? Now that all of the regulatory logjams have been cleared with the new honda diesel engine passing the Tier 2 tests, will the new diesel engines be a big hit with lots of demand? Will diesel car prices and diesel fuel prices soar with increasing demand?
It will be fun to watch as the new diesels start to get popular.
-Nano
Diesels have normally followed the platform logic. If you look at the Jetta, in 2003 there was a 246 dollar premium. Over all I got it for 300 over invoice. The 2003 Prius at that time made absolutely NO economic sense (even at invoice). It was selling for OVER MSRP!! It made even less sense with the massive redo in 2004 (again at invoice). Again over even a HIGHER MSRP! Fast forward, it NOW even makes LESS sense. The only time it make sense is as a marketing statement. (with its attending over price)
Just like a 8,0000 dollar Civic hyrid premium did over my Civic, which I needed for an everday commute. Perhaps that is where Honda made the mistake with hybrid in that they did not make it an "only car" like Prius. So really one could not buy it for the "STATEMENT" it made. To me TOTALLY ridiculous!!! However I liked the Civic (Hybrid) one of several models concept! The problem was that I was not a buyer at a 8,000 premium. I was a buyer at $ -8,000 for one of the Civics' model line!!
Honda will probably ask for a 1,000 diesel premium over a gasser Accord. My swag is they will have NO issues selling their WHOLE (diesel Accord) inventory.
Maybe it will be "only" $1000 more and maybe it will be much more than that. Maybe diesel fuel will cost much more than gas. It is already in some areas.
I am thinking the Honda diesels could go into the same high demand/short supply scenario where it would be hard for anyone to get them for even $2500 over the price of the gasoline engine. This honda diesel is pretty exciting for me, so I expect it will be exciting for those with more purchasing power willing to spend more than me.
If you think how bad it is that the dealers are holding out for MSRP on the new Accords, think how bad it could be with the new diesel engine models.
I hope i'm wrong!
We need a decent low pollution/high milage vehicle here in California, and I do not consider the Prius it. I just hope something can arrive within the next two years that is actually something exciting FROM A MILAGE/ENVIRONMENTAL POINT OF VIEW, and at the same time HIGHLY AVAILABLE AT A GOOD PRICE.
-Nano
However lets used msg# 283 quote(in response to another message); "...Yeah, here in California regular unleaded is $3.06 a gallon and diesel is $3.32."...
as an example. gas $3.06/30 mpg vs diesel $3.32/52 mpg
Gasser per mile driven: .102 cents
diesel per mile driven: .0638461 cents
this will be on the economic test, .0381539 cents cheaper per mile driven= which one?.
No rocket science here, only grammar school math. :shades:
You wrote: "I believe the only question re the new diesels is the ability of the automakers to keep up with a huge demand."
I'm not sure that I can agree that that is the only question. It is clear that there is some pent-up demand for Diesel engines on these Edmunds enthusiast forums. But that probably doesn't translate to more than a miniscule percentage of overall sales. The vast majority of North Americans (except perhaps those who've been driving Diesel trucks for years) equate Diesels with EXHAUST STINK, EXHAUST SMOKE, CLATTERING ENGINE NOISE and POOR ACCELERATION.
All of that aside, I'd be interested in checking out an Accord Diesel if the price were right.
Will the new diesels start out with slow sales due to ignorance?
Well, I can dream can't I?
-Nano
I have posted this in other diesel threads. The growth of passenger diesel will follow the growth rate of SUV's to 12% of the passenger vehicle fleet over a generation (30 years) from less than 1% or an average of (a little over) 1/3rd of 1 percent per year.
The metaphor/sound bite in the case of the Honda Accord is: why get 52 mpg when 29 mpg will do!!! (it will just cost more)
Please keep in mind that I have gotten as high as 62 mpg in the TDI! The range has been a low of 44 to 62 mpg! I have a Civic that gets 38-42 in a plain jane commute. I would have to employ EXTREME driving techniques to even attempt 45 mpg in the Civic. The TDI gets 48-52 in that same commute.
Just recently on a trip (interstate highway 5) Washington, Oregon, they (revenue takers) were doing a series of rolling speed traps (5/6 trooper cars) and I dialed in 70/75 mph, to avoid even the appearance. When I filled for that leg (can't resist a drive by, sub par diesel price
The metric that I base what I say is the passenger vehicle fleet being (registered ) 253.4 M vehicles. Less than 3% being diesels (235.4M *3 % = ) 7.062 M diesel vehicles. It is acknowleged that yearly new car sales @ between 16-17 M vehicles. So in order to increase the vehicle fleet the real question will be how many DIESEL vehicles (vol and percentage) are sold per year. Part of the driver is the yearly salvage rate of app 7% (which is coincidently 16.5M vehicles)
One appears to be real world fuel economy. The other (52 mpg) is based on British fuel economy rating and measured in imperial gallons (an addition 20% advantage added right there).
Appearances can be deceiving. You should be careful not to be easily deceived! More importantly, not to validate an already drawn conclusion on faulty assumptions due to a intentional/unintentional misread of data.
..."one of which was shown recently with with a new emission control system at a diesel conference in California. That car is apparently capable of 52mpg which, if replicated by the production version, will put it well ahead of anything else in its class."...
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06/07/2009-honda-accord-diesel-to-hit-52-mpg/
one secondary data point: (you can google for more, just as I can)
..."A European Accord that was fitted with the 2.2L diesel was capable of achieving 62.8mpg.
That means that the US version of the car should achieve around 52 mpg"...
http://www.thetorquereport.com/2007/06/2009_honda_accord_diesel_will.html
2009 Honda Accord Diesel Will Achieve Over 60mpg
Accord Diesel: 62.8 mpg (52.3 mpg)
Civic Hybrid: 65.7 mpg (54.8 mpg)
Civic 1.8: 52.3 mpg (43.6 mpg)
Based on that, and looking at EPA ratings in the USA, a more logical guess would be Accord Diesel getting highway in low 40s. Impressive, but no 50s.
As for the mpg variance, I think all one has to do is look at the thread Civic Real world MPG. There is a variance between high teens to low 40's. The point of departure of course is the EPA mpg figures, which my point of reference is 29/38 mpg. Commute we get 38-42. So from my perspective while he might be considered "off", he is not FAR off. (3.7%) So if the "diesel" figures tighten the range up from 25-40%, is it not still a NNN gain!?
"If" they do, then yes. But we saw similar variance in a test report from C&D between hybrids (Civic and Prius), non-hybrid (Echo) and a diesel (Jetta) in a comparison test.
Cars will return mileage based on how much power (energy) is used. There is a variance between gasoline and diesel in terms of energy content, and that is 11%. So, there isn't a magic involved that no matter how hard one pushes the diesel, there is going to be less variance than gasoline.
So really the 11% advantage does not explain the market resistance. Perhaps market inertia might be a catch basin. We are all aware of course that not all buying decisions are made with an emphasis on fuel mileage.