Land Rover LR3
aerodriver
Member Posts: 12
in Land Rover
I've been waiting for this Discovery makeover since last year when I put off buying an SUV. Now that Land Rover's site has (finally) posted some engineering specs, I'm looking forward to a test drive. 300 hp, seating for 7, a hidden spare, and more cargo space are just what the old Disco II needed. Does anyone know when the LR3 will make it into showrooms? How about price? Any idea how many will ship to the U.S. this fall? Are dealers taking orders yet?
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tidester, host
http://trucks.about.com/library/photo/bl_landrover_lr3_1.htm
Steve, Host
I assume based on this info other dealers around the country should soon be getting ones in stock for demo's if they have not already.
Does anyone have any insights about the ride quality 18" vs. 19"( HSE) wheels, handling in snow and ability to absorb road bumps???
You've got a lot of experience with Land Rover. Can you comment on their quality. I went to a Lexus dealership the other day to check out the GX470 and he showed me a JD Power ranking of all makes and Land Rover was last in one year and second last in another.
How easy was it for you to get service and get parts?
A body shop also told me that it's next to impossible to get body parts for Land Rovers. The longest record for a car in his shop was not a Rolls-Royce but a Land Rover (for almost A YEAR).
Despite all that, I still like the truck and may buy one. It sure would be nice to know more about what I am getting into.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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I test drove the LR3 SE last week. I was quite impressed. It's extremely heavy, but it hides it very well. It's built like a tank, inside and out. "Real" sales start beginning of November; the two cars at the dealer weren't for sale... only demo.
It's expensive, gets 14/18 MPG EPA, weighs more than anything in class, and has to deal with the poor history of Land Rover reliability... so there is a pretty good chance it won't have mass appeal and discounts/incentives may exist within 6 months.
Since Land Rover raised the price by 10K, they moved into a different segment competing with Lexus, VW, Porsche, Cadillac, Lincoln, etc. Lot's of existing choices and fewer potential buyers (than the say Jeep segment). I wouldn't be surprised if discounts are offered much sooner than 6 months.
The sales lady told me that she is selling them before they can come in. I was told they would sell it at MSRP for as long as possible. I am hoping that many people will take a pass because the LR3 is squarely in the range of the Lexus GX470, Cadillac Escalade, Land Cruiser, etc. They have to sell at MSRP for as long as possible to recoup the $1 billion investment in the new platform. the new platform will spawn several new Land Rover products for years to come.
This is sad, but I am hoping that they cannot overcome the past issues with build quality and resale value so I can pick one up for less than MSRP in 6 months.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/landrover/lr3/100477292/roadtesta- rticle.html?articleId=103270
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Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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The big question will be whether or not there is a leasing incentive placed on the LR3. For the past few years, LR created a lot of showroom traffic with their $399 SE lease, a price point that will not be obtainable with the increased pricing on the new vehicle.
There is a LR dealer in my town...I have to admit, lately I have been feeling like a stalker driving through the place hoping to spot "the new one"!
We are also seriously considering the Volvo XC90 V8.
Pros: it is beautiful inside and out, the ride is quiet, you get plenty of space, the handling is good.
Cons: Poor gas mileage, the front windshield has lots of thin lines running vertically to prevent frosting, I think this is rather annoying, the 300HP engine is a bit sluggish as compared to an X5, but then again the X5 4.4 is a bit lighter.
Conclusion: I am still deciding
I wouldn't personally compare the X5 4.4 to the LR3, as X5 has almost no utility/space. The forthcoming Range Sport will be the X5 competitor.
With the KDSS suspension option, it is similarly capable off road. Feature by feature, it matches the LR3. It has a backup camera and tire pressure monitor which LR3 doesn't. Better acceleration with the 05 engine. Lexus quality. Costs less if LR3 is to be sold at MSRP and Lexus only increase the price moderately for 05.
LR3 is on top in the areas of:
- heated rear seats
- better 3rd row seats design (i.e. fold flat)
- tail gate instead of a rear door that swing sideways
Tough choices for me since my logical side says get the GX470 but my emotional side says LR3 since we have a lot of GX470's in our town. Well that may be a temporary advantage for LR3 since there should be more of them on the road a year or two from now....
The 3rd Row is not only a better design in the LR3... it can seat 2 decent sized adults instead of 2-3 kids. The additional cabin room and cargo space is a big deal to me.
Land Rover did a great job; a vehicle that is honestly competitive. If it was 5K cheaper, it would almost be a steal.
The '05 GX isn't out until late December, right? I didn't think the HP increase was even confirmed. I wonder if it'll still be 15/18 EPA MPG if it has "better acceleration."
I'm personally not a huge fan of the Lexus "look and feel" that everyone just adores... but I'm an odd bird.
Terrain Response is no doubt more advanced. However, KDSS equipped GX could be similarly as capable when driven by experienced people.
If the Lexus has the same 4Runner engine that has been confirmed, it will have 270HP pushing 4740lb. LR3 would be 300HP pushing 5426-5796lb.
Lexus: 17.56 lb per HP
LR3: 18.09 - 19.32 lb per HP
Plus the Lexus engine has higher torque number, it appears that better acceleration is a reasonable guess if the new engine is there.
If LR3 was 5K cheaper, I wouldn't have to make a hard choice at all. It'd be my hands down winner.
I don't know how the 05 GX470 will be equipped, but the 04 model has a base price of $45,375. It does not have a 6 spd trans, command shift, and the center diff lock is manual instead of automatic. The SE LR3 has all of this at $44,995.
The Land Rover Retailers have a very nice comparison brochure available.
The Lexus is a very nice vehicle however.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=16&article- _id=8522&page_number=1
http://www.roverparts.com/Vehicle_Reviews_LR3-Discovery.html
They still have one Java Black demo car. The 2nd car is off to another dealer.
I found an odd nit with our soaring gas prices: The LR3 gas filler door doesn't lock. (No, it wasn't broken... there is no locking mechanism, even though the door was designed to have one. I checked.)
I had the chance to be the first one to sit in it. Great seats, very firm and supportive..and great new car smell.
While the interior is nicely laid out, I hate to say it but I felt like I was looking at an overstuffed Explorer. Other than the front, the rest of the vehicle has no style, and the interior is nothing special: just tons of buttons and knobs. THere is nothing wrong with it, but it does not have the style of a Disco or Range Rover. The interior felt cold (an all black interior..no wood).
The sales manager indicated that the prices may be introductory in nature, and that LR may increase the pricing in Feb or March. He also thought the V6 would not arrive before 2006.
I am buying a Disco tomorrow, and Im happy I am getting a true classic...lots of style.
The 5.7L Hemi V8 puts out 330 HP and 375lb of torque. It turns off half of the cylinders when not under stress to conserve fuel.
The '05 interior is actually decent looking (comparing to LR3), though the exterior maintains the old Jeep look. I loaded up the options (even with the tire pressure monitor, etc.) and found the price to be around 41K (with the $2K discount offered on the Jeep site, which means that they are dealing).
Peeete, I too feel the LR3 interior kind of flat and cheap. Especially side by side with the GX470. They do have a Veneer Fascia Kit Accessory that adds some wood. Can't tell if it's going to improve the luxury feel until I see one in person.
Since there will be a good portion of the population without the need for the third row seats, how likely would they pay a $12K premium to buy a LR3? Let along LR increasing the price which will likely limit the sales further.
I also don't quite get the increase pricing thing. Why would LR want to operate their new plant (that has a lot of sunk cost already to build it and to keep it running) at less than full capacity? Are they trying to repeat the same problem Jaguar has so they can lose more money and close the UK plant?
A friend of mine sells JGC, and he thinks it looks chesp, and the materials are cheap. This Disco, while dated, has character, drives well, and has great dealer service, for the many hours I expect to be there
My salesperson sat in the LR3 last night, and came to the same conclusion as me: not great. It looks like a bloated explorer from the windscreen back.
As far as the price increase goes, all I have to go on is what the sales mgr said; I think the exchange rates will have a lot to do with it: they are not favorable at the moment.
Lastly, a I think lots of people will pay extra for an LR3. LR cachet, very modern design, potential for major bling bling (spinners on a LR lol) and good service.
I bought my Disco SE with Nav and trail pkg today, and Im very happy.
I also don't think lb/horsepower is as accurate in heavy SUV's as it is in sports cars.
Even a higher torque may not indicate a quicker acceleration. A higher torque developed at a lower rpm would give a better indicator as to the vehicles acceleration.
I would suspect that the LR3 would have the same "feel" off the line as the GX and would feel more crisp once moving, such as 30-50 or 50-70 mph (as long as the 6 speed doesn't constantly hunt around for a gear).
As long as neither is sluggish, I suspect that most will not notice the difference between the two vehicles.
I am looking to buy an suv for the same reason.
Here's my current thinking: the XC90 qualifies for the tax break if you get the third row of seats, but the torque steer and lack of performance is a killer. The 45K MSRP Cayennne V6 is nice but you could grow old trying to find one without 8-10K worth of extraneous (e.g., Porche Nav, $1800 Bose surround sound for when you listen to talk radio, etc.) and even wierd (e.g., "soft look" add-on for the standard leather for $600) options. Spending 52 large for a Tourig isn't my idea of a good move. The X5 is getting long in the tooth and you see three on every block. A used X5 may not be a bad idea but even a now 3 year old '02 if Certified (Is there any other way you would buy a used BMW?) goes for 33-34K, hardly a big discount off the new price.
The Eddie Bauer Expedition depreciates like a rock and the Denali with its piston slap, 10 year old interior and overall GM slop is a turn off. The Land Cruiser and Range Rover are too much $$ and the Sequoia doesn't do it for me.
I could struggle on for another year until a used 2003 Range Rover is down to 45K or so but then won't the law have been changed?
Speaking of the Section 179 tax break, my real world feeling is that it amounts to about a 33% savings if you buy a vehicle that qualifies. So, if you can get one third off a nice SUV buying a high performance sedan makes no sense. Do the quantitative types out there agree with my interpretation (max marginal tax bracket, etc.)??
My understanding is that the Sec 179 repeal has been passed by both houses, and will likely happen as of 12/31. But it has not happened yet as far as I know. You should speak to your financial advisor.
The new law will cap the deduction at $25,000, down from the current $100,000. If you use the vehicle 100% for business, its still good, but if you use it 50% for business, the value is reduced. For example, a SUV that costs $50,000 used 50% for business under current law, has a tax deduction of $25,000. So if you want that $100,000 Hummer, better put it your busineses name
Its true that are limited SUV's out there that meet the rules and are affordable. One other one is the Cadillac SRX. Of course, any LR would eat it for lunch
So essentially if you are looking for a small under $40 k Suv that meets current law, the Disco is it until the JGC becomes more available. If the dealers wake up, I would not be surprised to see Disco price increases. There are a lot of them still out there, but the highly optioned ones are almost gone. (I got one!)
I owuld buy an LR3 over a porsche anyday..I think the interiors look cheap. THe LR3 is new, with no dpereciation. The Disco in 2 years ..well
As far as sales go, the current Discovery is at 1,800 a month on a good month, recently it has slipped to less than 1,400 a month in the US. Most of this is because that vehicle is just not competative in it's class to a large part of the US population. Land Rover is going from having a non-competative vehicle in the mid-price class to having a class leader in the large luxury class.
I agree the interior is a change from the earlier vehicle, but there is a very nice wood trim kit available. I would encourage everyone to drive the vehicle before passing judgement on it. it surpasses the Discovery in every performance category,both On and off-road
I'm no tax whiz but I think it makes sense to initially do what's best for your business's bottom line. That usually means structuring purchase decisions to avoid taxes as much as possible, not looking first to loopholes (for want of a better word) and trying to take advantage of them so they fit your business plan.
So if you need a new car for your business, great, but don't wrap yourself in a Hummer just because the write-off may look better on paper initially. You're going to be driving the rig, not Uncle Sam.
Steve, Host
Funny thing is I drive a sports car now, so while the Disco is MUCH Much slower than my G35, I dont seem to mind. It is a whole different style of "motoring." Besides, as I age, the fast car stuff is only going to get me killed. I look at the Disco as the Grand Marquis of Suvs. Sounds silly I know, but think of it this way: lousy mileage, slow acceleration, floaty ride, leans in corners, tough to park. Can run for 300,000 miles if taken care of. Sound familiar? Oh yeah, I LOVE Grand Marquis
As far as your math, the accelerated 179 deduction allows you to take an immediate 100% write off, but you can still take depreciation write offs for other business vehicles. So the 33% savings, while true, should not be compared to 0 for other choices.
Thank you for your indepth reply. I agree with your comment re: the porsche interior, but have you seen the inside of a Toureag? It qualifies for the Sec 179. Ive never owned a VW. Meanwhile, I continue to wait for the LR3 to arrive at our local dealership.
The corrolary of all this (if I'm correct) is with this 15K net savings, a lot of people will find they can't afford non-Hemi Jeep Grand Cherokee Limiteds, but they can afford an LR3 or X5!