Land Rover LR3

aerodriveraerodriver Member Posts: 12
I've been waiting for this Discovery makeover since last year when I put off buying an SUV. Now that Land Rover's site has (finally) posted some engineering specs, I'm looking forward to a test drive. 300 hp, seating for 7, a hidden spare, and more cargo space are just what the old Disco II needed. Does anyone know when the LR3 will make it into showrooms? How about price? Any idea how many will ship to the U.S. this fall? Are dealers taking orders yet?
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Comments

  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I recommend you repost your message in Land Rover Discovery/Discovery II or 2005 Discovery (in the Future Vehicles area).

    tidester, host
  • reichowjrreichowjr Member Posts: 86
    I found this link of pictures of a prototype at a Land Rover dealer in NC.
    http://trucks.about.com/library/photo/bl_landrover_lr3_1.htm
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Until it actually hits the showrooms, lets stick to the Future Vehicles board linked above. Thanks,

    Steve, Host
  • reichowjrreichowjr Member Posts: 86
    I spoke to my local dealer who indicated they have a LR3 arriving on the 15th for viewing and test drives.

     I assume based on this info other dealers around the country should soon be getting ones in stock for demo's if they have not already.
  • ypshanypshan Member Posts: 103
    I've seen two at my local dealer last Wed. Couldn't test drive one yet. They say the will have demo for test drive by mid next week.
  • yogidocyogidoc Member Posts: 16
    Looking forward to test driving HSE and SE models next thurs. Owned a 97 and 2000 Discovery, now drive a Lincoln Aviator which is boring, and far from an off road vehicle.( wrong suv for a single guy in his 40's)
    Does anyone have any insights about the ride quality 18" vs. 19"( HSE) wheels, handling in snow and ability to absorb road bumps???
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The latest issue of Motor Trend has an article about the LR3. Sounded like the editors there really liked it.
  • ypshanypshan Member Posts: 103
    Yogidoc,

    You've got a lot of experience with Land Rover. Can you comment on their quality. I went to a Lexus dealership the other day to check out the GX470 and he showed me a JD Power ranking of all makes and Land Rover was last in one year and second last in another.

    How easy was it for you to get service and get parts?

    A body shop also told me that it's next to impossible to get body parts for Land Rovers. The longest record for a car in his shop was not a Rolls-Royce but a Land Rover (for almost A YEAR).

    Despite all that, I still like the truck and may buy one. It sure would be nice to know more about what I am getting into.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,117
    We'll be moving this topic to the SUVs board next week, where steve & tidester will be your hosts. If you're subscribed to this discussion, nothing will change for you, and you will still be able to find it using the make/model search feature.

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  • emolsemols Member Posts: 15
    ok- dead battery due to lights being left on- my bad. But does not explain the stalling out and the recent heavy gas smell upon starting up- I am so bummed because the service dept. is telling me they are still learning about this model and they cannot give me a specific answer on the stalling issue- and btw the tank was almost completely full both times it stalled. I had a 2001 discovery and never had a single service issue for three years. I thought our problems sounded similar but I think my must be electical- did you ever notice a heavy gas smell before your tank was replaced??
  • craniocranio Member Posts: 4
    I drove this truck yesterday at my local landrover dealer. I really wasn't all that interested in the LR3 I went there to test drive an RR. I drove both vehicles back to back and all I can say is that the LR3 is amazing. It handles well and feels great. It's a no brainer unless you want to pay the extra 15K or so for the RR snob appeal the LR feels much nicer than the RR. I never post messages but felt I had to in this case
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I think parts should be easier to get since it does share platforms with the Ford Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer and Lincoln Aviator. But the LR3 does have more differences from the Explorer than do the Mountaineer/Aviator
  • davidc1davidc1 Member Posts: 168
    What makes you think LR3 shares platforms with Explorer? Where did you hear this?
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    No, the LR3 does NOT share the platform with the Explorer. Stop spreading misinformation. It's entirely unique, and will be the foundation to numerous new Land Rover vehicles... including the Range Sport.

    I test drove the LR3 SE last week. I was quite impressed. It's extremely heavy, but it hides it very well. It's built like a tank, inside and out. "Real" sales start beginning of November; the two cars at the dealer weren't for sale... only demo.
  • davidc1davidc1 Member Posts: 168
    I dropped by the dealer today and was told that it won't be unveiled till the event tomorrow night. I signed up for it. I wonder how many months before, if ever, we'll be able to buy at or lower than MSRP.
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    It's brand new, so expect MSRP to be the norm for a while. Dealers for this class of vehicle don't generally gouge above MSRP on normal production vehicles; if they do, go to another dealer. I wouldn't expect lower than MSRP anytime soon, though... unless it really sells poorly. (Maybe only for Ford employees/partners.)

    It's expensive, gets 14/18 MPG EPA, weighs more than anything in class, and has to deal with the poor history of Land Rover reliability... so there is a pretty good chance it won't have mass appeal and discounts/incentives may exist within 6 months.
  • ypshanypshan Member Posts: 103
    Discount starts as soon as there is more inventory in stock than they like to have at the dealership.

    Since Land Rover raised the price by 10K, they moved into a different segment competing with Lexus, VW, Porsche, Cadillac, Lincoln, etc. Lot's of existing choices and fewer potential buyers (than the say Jeep segment). I wouldn't be surprised if discounts are offered much sooner than 6 months.
  • xchicagoan5xchicagoan5 Member Posts: 46
    I drove the LR3 on Saturday. It has the set-up of the Range Rover without all the wood trim and super plush leather. I was impressed with the drive - the V8, the fit and finish, etc. They really did do a good job.

    The sales lady told me that she is selling them before they can come in. I was told they would sell it at MSRP for as long as possible. I am hoping that many people will take a pass because the LR3 is squarely in the range of the Lexus GX470, Cadillac Escalade, Land Cruiser, etc. They have to sell at MSRP for as long as possible to recoup the $1 billion investment in the new platform. the new platform will spawn several new Land Rover products for years to come.

    This is sad, but I am hoping that they cannot overcome the past issues with build quality and resale value so I can pick one up for less than MSRP in 6 months.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,117

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  • tyresmokertyresmoker Member Posts: 266
    Sort of agree with both sides..but...someone keeps mentioning the GX470. Try and get one below msrp in the northeast....better yet, try and find one. And it has been on the market for what, 18 months? Granted, it has a different appeal than LR has (it is WAY too soft for me...imho).
    The big question will be whether or not there is a leasing incentive placed on the LR3. For the past few years, LR created a lot of showroom traffic with their $399 SE lease, a price point that will not be obtainable with the increased pricing on the new vehicle.
    There is a LR dealer in my town...I have to admit, lately I have been feeling like a stalker driving through the place hoping to spot "the new one"!
  • davidc1davidc1 Member Posts: 168
    Huh? I am NJ and they'll give you $3K off MSRP on GX as soon as you walk in. I heard folks getting $5K off at some aggressive dealers. I am waiting for the '05 GX with stronger engine, new gen. Nav, etc.. to compare with LR3. I think it will be a tough decision. So I'll probably end up deferring it to my wife. :-)
  • tyresmokertyresmoker Member Posts: 266
    Yeah, Jersey is not so. Ct. Basically 2 medium size dealers service the entire county. Good gig if you can get it ;)
  • davidc1davidc1 Member Posts: 168
    You should cross the GW and checkout some dealers in Bergen county. The dealers on Route 17 in particular are very aggressive.
  • mnmatchesmnmatches Member Posts: 111
    My wife and I are planning on getting a new vehicle in the next few months (currently own a 02 explorer). She especially loves the Land Rover Defender 90's but since they are not available here in the states she's settling for the LR3 instead. I am pretty concerned about their history with reliability and resale. Are there some members here that would be willing to post both pro's and con's for each issue?

    We are also seriously considering the Volvo XC90 V8.
  • ubrsfubrsf Member Posts: 51
    I test drove one Last Friday.

    Pros: it is beautiful inside and out, the ride is quiet, you get plenty of space, the handling is good.
    Cons: Poor gas mileage, the front windshield has lots of thin lines running vertically to prevent frosting, I think this is rather annoying, the 300HP engine is a bit sluggish as compared to an X5, but then again the X5 4.4 is a bit lighter.

    Conclusion: I am still deciding
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    I didn't notice thin lines running vertically in the windshield on the loaded SE I drove. I'll have to look more closely. Maybe it's due to the optional Cold Climate Package's heated windshield?

    I wouldn't personally compare the X5 4.4 to the LR3, as X5 has almost no utility/space. The forthcoming Range Sport will be the X5 competitor.
  • ypshanypshan Member Posts: 103
    GX470 is surprising close to LR3.

    With the KDSS suspension option, it is similarly capable off road. Feature by feature, it matches the LR3. It has a backup camera and tire pressure monitor which LR3 doesn't. Better acceleration with the 05 engine. Lexus quality. Costs less if LR3 is to be sold at MSRP and Lexus only increase the price moderately for 05.

    LR3 is on top in the areas of:
    - heated rear seats
    - better 3rd row seats design (i.e. fold flat)
    - tail gate instead of a rear door that swing sideways

    Tough choices for me since my logical side says get the GX470 but my emotional side says LR3 since we have a lot of GX470's in our town. Well that may be a temporary advantage for LR3 since there should be more of them on the road a year or two from now....
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    Land Rover's Terrain Response is far more advanced, but I doubt that will matter to a huge portion of the SUV buying public.

    The 3rd Row is not only a better design in the LR3... it can seat 2 decent sized adults instead of 2-3 kids. The additional cabin room and cargo space is a big deal to me.

    Land Rover did a great job; a vehicle that is honestly competitive. If it was 5K cheaper, it would almost be a steal. :)

    The '05 GX isn't out until late December, right? I didn't think the HP increase was even confirmed. I wonder if it'll still be 15/18 EPA MPG if it has "better acceleration."

    I'm personally not a huge fan of the Lexus "look and feel" that everyone just adores... but I'm an odd bird.
  • ypshanypshan Member Posts: 103
    I am with you on the exterior of Lexus. I do think the Lexus interior feels better.

    Terrain Response is no doubt more advanced. However, KDSS equipped GX could be similarly as capable when driven by experienced people.

    If the Lexus has the same 4Runner engine that has been confirmed, it will have 270HP pushing 4740lb. LR3 would be 300HP pushing 5426-5796lb.

    Lexus: 17.56 lb per HP
    LR3: 18.09 - 19.32 lb per HP

    Plus the Lexus engine has higher torque number, it appears that better acceleration is a reasonable guess if the new engine is there.

    If LR3 was 5K cheaper, I wouldn't have to make a hard choice at all. It'd be my hands down winner.
  • tyresmokertyresmoker Member Posts: 266
    Read an article a while ago in the Automotive News that stated the LR3 was supposed to come to the US market...seriously.... $5k cheaper, but unfavorable exchange rates caused the price to increase to what it is being introduced at....
  • mnmatchesmnmatches Member Posts: 111
    So where would one need to buy it to prevent the price gouge? I could take a 1hr flight to canada and buy it there if it would save me $5k!!!
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The nice thing about Terrain Response is you don't have to be an expert, it lets average people go off-roading with confidence.
     I don't know how the 05 GX470 will be equipped, but the 04 model has a base price of $45,375. It does not have a 6 spd trans, command shift, and the center diff lock is manual instead of automatic. The SE LR3 has all of this at $44,995.
    The Land Rover Retailers have a very nice comparison brochure available.
     The Lexus is a very nice vehicle however.
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    San Francisco Bay Area Update: Our local dealer received 3 non-demo LR3 SEs this week for customer delivery next week. One Java Black, one Adriatic Blue and one Zambezi Silver. One outfitted with Navigation. So, the flood gates are open... just a little.

    They still have one Java Black demo car. The 2nd car is off to another dealer.

    I found an odd nit with our soaring gas prices: The LR3 gas filler door doesn't lock. (No, it wasn't broken... there is no locking mechanism, even though the door was designed to have one. I checked.)
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    As a veteran of the 1973 and 1979 gas shortages, one thing I found out was that a locking gas cap only keeps honest people honest. I sold a lot of fuel filler hoses and Gas tanks for cars that had locking gas caps. A latching lid can easily be pried open with a screwdriver, so it really won't prevent theft of the gas either.
  • peeetepeeete Member Posts: 136
    Walked onto the lot, and there it was, all black and still swathed in plastic. From the front it looked like a Disco; I was wondering how they got a new Disco at this late date.

    I had the chance to be the first one to sit in it. Great seats, very firm and supportive..and great new car smell.

    While the interior is nicely laid out, I hate to say it but I felt like I was looking at an overstuffed Explorer. Other than the front, the rest of the vehicle has no style, and the interior is nothing special: just tons of buttons and knobs. THere is nothing wrong with it, but it does not have the style of a Disco or Range Rover. The interior felt cold (an all black interior..no wood).

    The sales manager indicated that the prices may be introductory in nature, and that LR may increase the pricing in Feb or March. He also thought the V6 would not arrive before 2006.

    I am buying a Disco tomorrow, and Im happy I am getting a true classic...lots of style.
  • ypshanypshan Member Posts: 103
    Has anybody looked at the Disco's traditional rivals like the Jeep Grand Cherokee? I heard that it has a Hemi engine option so I went to the site and checked it out.

    The 5.7L Hemi V8 puts out 330 HP and 375lb of torque. It turns off half of the cylinders when not under stress to conserve fuel.

    The '05 interior is actually decent looking (comparing to LR3), though the exterior maintains the old Jeep look. I loaded up the options (even with the tire pressure monitor, etc.) and found the price to be around 41K (with the $2K discount offered on the Jeep site, which means that they are dealing).

    Peeete, I too feel the LR3 interior kind of flat and cheap. Especially side by side with the GX470. They do have a Veneer Fascia Kit Accessory that adds some wood. Can't tell if it's going to improve the luxury feel until I see one in person.

    Since there will be a good portion of the population without the need for the third row seats, how likely would they pay a $12K premium to buy a LR3? Let along LR increasing the price which will likely limit the sales further.

    I also don't quite get the increase pricing thing. Why would LR want to operate their new plant (that has a lot of sunk cost already to build it and to keep it running) at less than full capacity? Are they trying to repeat the same problem Jaguar has so they can lose more money and close the UK plant?
  • peeetepeeete Member Posts: 136
    I looked at the new Grand Cherokee as well. The Hemi is basically unavailable for the rest of the year, as Chrysler underestimated its popularity. I needed a vehicle that could get the Sec 179 deduction, which is being partially rolled back at the end of the year. So the Disco was the best choice in the not to big category.

    A friend of mine sells JGC, and he thinks it looks chesp, and the materials are cheap. This Disco, while dated, has character, drives well, and has great dealer service, for the many hours I expect to be there :) The jeeps have lousy quality too..but the service writers are on commission, and no loaners etc. Both get 12 MPG.

    My salesperson sat in the LR3 last night, and came to the same conclusion as me: not great. It looks like a bloated explorer from the windscreen back.

    As far as the price increase goes, all I have to go on is what the sales mgr said; I think the exchange rates will have a lot to do with it: they are not favorable at the moment.

    Lastly, a I think lots of people will pay extra for an LR3. LR cachet, very modern design, potential for major bling bling (spinners on a LR lol) and good service.

    I bought my Disco SE with Nav and trail pkg today, and Im very happy.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    The LR3 does have a 6 speed, which may help over come it's weight.

    I also don't think lb/horsepower is as accurate in heavy SUV's as it is in sports cars.

    Even a higher torque may not indicate a quicker acceleration. A higher torque developed at a lower rpm would give a better indicator as to the vehicles acceleration.

    I would suspect that the LR3 would have the same "feel" off the line as the GX and would feel more crisp once moving, such as 30-50 or 50-70 mph (as long as the 6 speed doesn't constantly hunt around for a gear).

    As long as neither is sluggish, I suspect that most will not notice the difference between the two vehicles.
  • grommetgrommet Member Posts: 445
    Of course a fuel door latch is defeatable... but so is everything. Might as well not lock the car door, as it only keeps the "honest" people honest, too. :) It's just a strange thing to be missing as the outgoing Disco has it. Don't most vehicles today either lock or have "remote releases"?
  • shemarshemar Member Posts: 2
    Please explain your statement, "the Sec 179 deduction, which is being partially rolled back at the end of the year"
    I am looking to buy an suv for the same reason.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    I've put off buying a new Section 179 qualifying vehicle until I saw the LR3. I saw one today and wasn't exactly bowled over. So I'm back to the drawing board and I need help fast. (Or at least before 1/1/05).

    Here's my current thinking: the XC90 qualifies for the tax break if you get the third row of seats, but the torque steer and lack of performance is a killer. The 45K MSRP Cayennne V6 is nice but you could grow old trying to find one without 8-10K worth of extraneous (e.g., Porche Nav, $1800 Bose surround sound for when you listen to talk radio, etc.) and even wierd (e.g., "soft look" add-on for the standard leather for $600) options. Spending 52 large for a Tourig isn't my idea of a good move. The X5 is getting long in the tooth and you see three on every block. A used X5 may not be a bad idea but even a now 3 year old '02 if Certified (Is there any other way you would buy a used BMW?) goes for 33-34K, hardly a big discount off the new price.

    The Eddie Bauer Expedition depreciates like a rock and the Denali with its piston slap, 10 year old interior and overall GM slop is a turn off. The Land Cruiser and Range Rover are too much $$ and the Sequoia doesn't do it for me.

    I could struggle on for another year until a used 2003 Range Rover is down to 45K or so but then won't the law have been changed?

    Speaking of the Section 179 tax break, my real world feeling is that it amounts to about a 33% savings if you buy a vehicle that qualifies. So, if you can get one third off a nice SUV buying a high performance sedan makes no sense. Do the quantitative types out there agree with my interpretation (max marginal tax bracket, etc.)??
  • peeetepeeete Member Posts: 136
    For the Sec 179 Deduction, I had narrowed my choice to the Disco or the new JGC with the Hemi. While the old Cherokee did not qulaify, the new one does with the Hemi. Unfortunately, there are VERY few hemi JGC's around, and those that are are over optioned. A friend of mine is a Chrysler/Jeep f&i guy, and called the district rep for me. Apparently Chrysler is way behind in Hemi production due to the 300 success. So the chance of getting one by the end of the year is small. Plus the JGC is a pedestrian vehicle (if fast w a hemi), whereas the Disco has class.

    My understanding is that the Sec 179 repeal has been passed by both houses, and will likely happen as of 12/31. But it has not happened yet as far as I know. You should speak to your financial advisor.

    The new law will cap the deduction at $25,000, down from the current $100,000. If you use the vehicle 100% for business, its still good, but if you use it 50% for business, the value is reduced. For example, a SUV that costs $50,000 used 50% for business under current law, has a tax deduction of $25,000. So if you want that $100,000 Hummer, better put it your busineses name :)

    Its true that are limited SUV's out there that meet the rules and are affordable. One other one is the Cadillac SRX. Of course, any LR would eat it for lunch :)

    So essentially if you are looking for a small under $40 k Suv that meets current law, the Disco is it until the JGC becomes more available. If the dealers wake up, I would not be surprised to see Disco price increases. There are a lot of them still out there, but the highly optioned ones are almost gone. (I got one!) :)

    I owuld buy an LR3 over a porsche anyday..I think the interiors look cheap. THe LR3 is new, with no dpereciation. The Disco in 2 years ..well :)
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    One big difference in the Discovery and LR3 is acceleration times. Even with the 4.6 the Discovery will not break 10 sec. 0-60. The LR3 will be around 8 sec.
     As far as sales go, the current Discovery is at 1,800 a month on a good month, recently it has slipped to less than 1,400 a month in the US. Most of this is because that vehicle is just not competative in it's class to a large part of the US population. Land Rover is going from having a non-competative vehicle in the mid-price class to having a class leader in the large luxury class.
     I agree the interior is a change from the earlier vehicle, but there is a very nice wood trim kit available. I would encourage everyone to drive the vehicle before passing judgement on it. it surpasses the Discovery in every performance category,both On and off-road
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Do the quantitative types out there agree with my interpretation (max marginal tax bracket, etc.)??

    I'm no tax whiz but I think it makes sense to initially do what's best for your business's bottom line. That usually means structuring purchase decisions to avoid taxes as much as possible, not looking first to loopholes (for want of a better word) and trying to take advantage of them so they fit your business plan.

    So if you need a new car for your business, great, but don't wrap yourself in a Hummer just because the write-off may look better on paper initially. You're going to be driving the rig, not Uncle Sam.

    Steve, Host
  • peeetepeeete Member Posts: 136
    Of course the LR3 is a state-of-the-art vehicle, so it will be better than the Disco. But in my view at least, from a styling perspective, it is a big letdown. As I said in an earlier post, it looks like a bloated Explorer. Would I buy one? Of course, but the price is way beyond me. In the Northeast, the CCP is always included, so you are looking at $47K, or $12k more than I just paid.

    Funny thing is I drive a sports car now, so while the Disco is MUCH Much slower than my G35, I dont seem to mind. It is a whole different style of "motoring." Besides, as I age, the fast car stuff is only going to get me killed. I look at the Disco as the Grand Marquis of Suvs. Sounds silly I know, but think of it this way: lousy mileage, slow acceleration, floaty ride, leans in corners, tough to park. Can run for 300,000 miles if taken care of. Sound familiar? Oh yeah, I LOVE Grand Marquis :)
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Just curious, you failed to list the GX470 among the vehicles qualifying for a Section 179 tax break. At $1,000 over invoice, a Nav/ML equiped one goes for about $45k, which in my opinion is about the best deal out there for a vehicle that qualifies and, unlike many of the others on your list, won't spend more time in the service bay than on the road. I'm having a difficult time deciding between getting one and waiting for the XC90 V8 which is getting very positive reviews, but won't be available until February+.

    As far as your math, the accelerated 179 deduction allows you to take an immediate 100% write off, but you can still take depreciation write offs for other business vehicles. So the 33% savings, while true, should not be compared to 0 for other choices.
  • shemarshemar Member Posts: 2
    Peeete
    Thank you for your indepth reply. I agree with your comment re: the porsche interior, but have you seen the inside of a Toureag? It qualifies for the Sec 179. Ive never owned a VW. Meanwhile, I continue to wait for the LR3 to arrive at our local dealership.
  • peeetepeeete Member Posts: 136
    THe only problem with the Toureg in my opinion is that VW service isnt supposed to be all that good. If you want premium level serivce, you have to stay with the right brands. If my choice was down to the Toureg or the LR3, I would definately wait for the latter. They are out there; My dealer had a couple on Saturday. As far as I know they are going for sticker, no mark up.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Peete and Habitat1, please help me out. For someone in the max tax bracket who is a Subchapter S corp (in a nut shell, everything flows through to the personal return), if he buys an LR3 for 50K and deducts it under Section 179 (claiming 100% biz use) , what is the net savings? I say it is 15K. Am I correct?

    The corrolary of all this (if I'm correct) is with this 15K net savings, a lot of people will find they can't afford non-Hemi Jeep Grand Cherokee Limiteds, but they can afford an LR3 or X5!
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