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Audi A4 2005+
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Comments
Can you comment on the engine sounds in the 3.2 vs. 2.0T? I felt that the 2.0T seemed a bit harsh...
IMHO.
This 2.0T engine, I believe, is a major upgrade.
There's a front-page article on AudiWorld.com that states the new RS4 will be available in the US mid-'06. That would be a very welcome sight!!!!
As the new RS 4 just announced seems to be thusly equipped, these features are, apparently, parts off the shelf available, already.
I would assume that the 2006 gets ALL the stuff, including a manual transmission option and if we're lucky the DSG transmission, too.
excellent post! I would favor the 2.0T mainly because of the manual tranny. Look forward to test driving one myself!
I saw the A3 in a Auto Show in Toronto and was really impressed! Visually the interior did not look much smaller than the A4 Avant.
IMO, the 2006 version fully loaded with S-Line package, manual, bluetooth, etc. will be equal comparison for me to the 2006 330i.
I am getting one of these babies, only time will tell. Only question for me is to lease or to finance it. I have always financed cars so a little timid of the lease thing. I put on around 20k miles per year but keep cars in great condition. I would want to turn over the car every 3 years. My company pays me a monthly car allowance that would damn near cover the cost either way.
Any thoughts?
http://www.audiworld.com/news/05/022105/content.shtml
I talked pricing with the dealer only briefly. The lease rates weren't horrile (MF of .00169 for 36 mos---which I think had something built in for the dealer). FWIW he told me that he could deal somewhat (got the impression of 750 or so off MSRP) for the 2.0, but not much on the 3.2 as he said Audi isn't making many of these.
I'd like to order one so I'm hopeful they will deal a bit since the car will be on and off their lot quickly, but it's not a big hope. He said an order will take 90 days which works great for me. For the people that know Audi pricing or have a feel for it, do you think 90 days from now, they will be looking to deal a bit more? Thanks.
N.B.: Although I still want to drive the Chrysler 300C AWD and the Acura RL (although I am growing to think, basically "why bother" regarding the RL now that I have driven the Infiniti M35x), I find the two Chrysler dealers I frequent, have either 300C RWD's or non-300C AWD's (being named to so many car magazines "best" lists, takes its toll on inventory, apparently.) I drove through the Acura dealer's parking lot again this weekend and the RL's that were outside had those yellow and red "SOLD" tickets on the wipers (again the RL, like the Chrysler, seems to be a victim of its own success).
Saturday in Cincinnati, a Great Day for a Test Drive!
My wife -- after 3 TT's and now with a countdown of 5 lease payments remaining coupled with my complaints that overnight trips in the TT are "cramped" (with respect to luggage and back seat space (or lack thereof)) -- is starting to feel the pressure of the choice she will soon be making. Saturday in our fair city was pretty nice -- sunny and upper 40's -- so she says, "let's go re-test drive the Audi 3.2 in daylight AFTER we test drive an AWD C class Mercedes" (a C320, as it turns out.)
We were determined to make this as scientific as possible. We determined that even slight psychological inputs to the decision making process could be important; and we were likewise determined to minimize these differences. We called our Audi dealer and found that the 3.2 A4 we had test driven just three days prior was NOT sold and we confirmed that it had a black leather interior. We also confirmed its MSRP was ~ $44,250. Then off to the Mercedes dealer we went. We requested, first, a C class AWD Merc and were immediately pointed to a C240 (168 HP) with a beige interior. We asked if we could instead drive a C320 AWD with a black interior (and any dark colored exterior color) and lo and behold, the super polite "lot technician" escorted us to exactly such a car. We then adjusted the mirrors, wheel, seats, climate control, even the radio station and seat belt height to our liking, with my wife as driver and me as co-pilot. We discussed a route that would take us on secondary, primary and Interstate highways (about a 15+ mile loop) and motored off. This would be the exact routine we would follow with the Audi A4 3.2 about 50 minutes later.
The Mercedes was a hair under $43,000 but it did NOT have satellite navigation (and, as it turned out, it lacked several other options that the A4 did have). We assumed, adding this feature would be about $2,000; and, even though a couple of other options that were on the A4 would be required to achieve "feature/option" parity, nothing we would have to add to the C320 would change its driving dynamics.
Program note: The C320 has 215 HP, the A4 3.2 has 255. In terms of torque, the Audi has "better numbers," too.
The tires on the C320 were 16" 215 x 55; the A4 had 17" 235 x 45. There is no sport suspension option even available on the C320, the A4 had this option. As an aside, the Mercedes representative told us that putting a sport suspension on an AWD car would negate the benefits of AWD. My wife remarked, "he must have used this explanation before successfully, but let's not challenge this."
The Mercedes was bank vault solid -- expansion joints and pot holes (in season in Cincinnati in Winter) -- phased neither the suspension, steering or occupants -- nothing rattled, not even our fillings. The 3.2L engine was strong, almost able to push us back in our seats under full throttle. The twisties could be taken aggressively, but the tires were not willing partners on a particularly snaky secondary road on our "test circuit." The Mercedes was under-tired, way, way under-tired, scary under-tired -- and no "factory" upgrade is offered (although as a dealer installed accessory, bigger tires and wheels were available for "a couple thousand" more dollars.) The transmission, a silky smooth 5 speed, always seemed to be in the right gear for the moment and the manu-matic function was virtually real-time. The sound system was excellent, seats were comfortable, plush but supportive and mostly grippy at the appropriate time. The car impressed us with its "poshness" and the way it did almost everything we asked of it with aplomb. We came to the conclusion that with 17" or 18" wheels and tires that the C320 would have been thoroughly competent under virtually all circumstances. The Mercedes, if it were a hotel, oozed "Ritz Carlton," that is to say "upscale, luxurious, traditional, expensive." Old money.
We took a brochure and thanked the sales representative. Next we headed the 2 miles north on the same street to the Audi dealer.
We repeated the exact same route (plus 2 miles) in the 3.2.
The A4, like its German rival was as solid as a block of "quiet steel." The interior gave up nothing in fit and finish to the Mercedes (in many ways the tolerances in the Audi were even tighter), but there is a difference. The Mercedes does seem to lean toward the "Banker's Club Member's Only Lounge" look and feel, whereas the Audi seems more like the cockpit of one of John Travolta's high-tech jet airplanes. The Audi seats were less high-back leather chairs and more like "sitting in a big hand" -- that is to say the seats in the Audi seemed slightly firmer, less comfy chair like (this does NOT mean the seats were uncomfortable, it is just that your bum doesn't sink as far down in them when you sit.) Saying one was better than the other would be entirely based upon your personal interpretation of "comfort and purpose." I preferred, slightly, the Audi seats, my wife leaned ever so slightly toward the Mercedes thrones. The Audi seems, somehow more "technical" than the Mercedes, the Mercedes, we both agreed, would win the contest of "most expensive looking." The Audi's fit and finish were perhaps even better (if that is possible) than the Mercedes, and there is no doubt that in the Audi you are in a "driver's car." To harken back to the hotel analogy, the Audi is "The Four Seasons" -- a more understated look when compared to the Mercedes "Ritz" interpretation. The Mercedes wears a traditional tuxedo with white gloves and tails, whereas the Audi is dressed for a bit lower keyed "white dinner jacket" affair. I would expect to see the Mercedes driven by someone with a touch of grey, the Audi seems "not ready for AARP -- yet." Part of this "age bias" did come from the clientele present in the showrooms at each marquis -- the Mercedes clients (that's what they called us) look like dapper upper middle-aged folks (uh, like my wife and me, well OK, lose the dapper moniker), the Audi customers look like 30 something's on their way to "the club -- the country club." Even the lone A8L on the Audi showroom floor had been shoed with a set of Audi
The Audi had the cool new MMI-like Navigation plus system, XM satellite radio and had literally every possible option box checked -- and, unlike the C320, the A4 did not suffer from being "under tired" or from any perceptible understeer or body roll even on the aforementioned snaky secondary road. Furthermore, the Audi could be tossed without protest at higher speeds into sharp turns and exit under full power. The additional "horsepressure" and torque the Audi's 3.2 engine provided put through Audi's 6 speed Tiptronic were sufficient to press the small of our backs into the seatbacks, a feat the Mercedes couldn't quite muster.
These two cars were both delightful to drive -- the Audi was just "that much" moreso, however. In any case, we came to the conclusion that the Mercedes with upgraded wheels and tires could be a contender. Then we got the lease prices: from the Audi dealer and from the Mercedes web site.
The Audi with NO money down, for a term of 36 months, w/15,000 miles per year and only the first month's payment up front was $684/month which included tax. Comparably equipped (as close as possible) the Mercedes was $48,000+ and over $100 per month more.
No contest.
Finally, the dealer representative at the Audi store told us that the new A4 had a money factor higher than the 2005 A4 3.0 "probably to encourage the final inventory of 2005's to be cleared out, before the REAL [lower] money factors were established for the 2005.5's." We took this to mean that the dealer believes that $684 will not stick, that in the not too distant future, the payment would be $10's lower.
A program note: my wife now has a ranking of the three recently test driven German cars: #1 Audi 3.2, #2 Mercedes C320 and BMW #3 330xi (all priced between $44 and 48,000 depending on options. BTW, when configured virtually identically the Mercedes is the most expensive, the BMW second and the Audi third -- and the lease price goes in this direction: BMW lowest, Audi in the middle and Mercedes the highest with the Audi being $90+ more than the Bimmer and the Mercedes about $200 more than the Bimmer).
If my dealer's speculation about the lease prices for the new A4's is proven to be true, not only will this new Audi be able to hold its own with its German rivals (and then some, referring to content) it will be attractively priced. After all the angst, disappointment and frustration I have had with the pricing of the new A6 (compared with its German rivals), this is refreshing indeed.
The production of the 2006 A4 is about 3 months away. Hmm, so we wait three months, order one and coast in on the outgoing Audi financial lease.
If I were you, I would take one of these new A4's for a seriously long test drive -- it is a remarkable achievement from Audi.
- 2006 BMW 3 series
- just announced: Mercedes C350 with manual transmission; considering that Mark liked the C320 already, the C350 with manual might be even better
- I am even considering the Passat; the Passat will be on the market in Germany on March 11 and since I will travel to Germany on March 12, I'll take a look.
By the way, I was born and raised in this car-crazy nation of Germany. I don't understand why German car companies ram automatic transmissions down American consumers' throats. I.e. whether we want it or not we have to pay for it. I don't mind it being offered as an option but having no choice bothers me. In particular when the same car is being offered with manual in Europe, plus lots more trim and engine choices than here. If you are curious, just check out Audi's UK or Germany Web site. Amazing how many choices you have there.
The Audi representative said that the A4 3.2 will "almost certainly" be available with a manual transmission as an '06 model.
Like I said, "I've seen The Exorcist 127 times and it just keeps getting better!" Beetlejuice
Great analogies, I am curious about your A4 test drive. You never mentioned anything about Tip Lag or the lack of! Previously there have been many posts and conversations on Tip Lag on the A4 and especially on the new A6. I keep hearing about the horror stories of pushing on the accelerator only to wait 1-2 seconds before there is any response. In addition, I feel it is silly to have to train or trick your engine daily out of this mode.
I would say, wait several more months for the 2006 model. If you end up going A4 instead of TT, mercedes or Acura, you will regret the chance for a manual tranny, S-Line package, Bluetooth, Navigation and other accessories.
Just my opinion!
Took the A4 for a 20 minute drive inlcuding a few minutes on the highway. This car definitely brings it all together nicely and is very driver friendly. Obviously long-term use will bring up some faults, but the interior of the A4 is superlative in comparison to the other lesser interiors. The steering is light and agile, with plenty of 'go' in the engine. I was mostly up to 4th or 5th gear and there seemed to be plenty more room for more...Of all the cars I have tested, the A4 2.0 seems the most likely choice for us. Too bad the 3.2 does not come with a manual tranny. Coming from another country I can't understand how car enthusiasts can drive an automatic. For shame. Anyhow, I am glad that some decent cars still come with manual transmissions in the U.S. The sticker price of the A4 with a premium package etc was about $35,000, which is pretty steep. I will take another look at the Subaru....
Sline too is supposed to be offered on cars built after June.
My wife is convinced of the goodness of Sline, both looks and performance, so that would probably be a no brainer, too -- she likes the wing on the butt and the 18" wheels and tires.
With respect to the tip lag, had there been any, it would have been reported. I can only report on what actually happens -- and I am well versed in what tip lag feels like, what with one A8 and three A6's (two of the A6's with V8 engines) behind me all that demonstrated tip lag from time to time.
At this moment, the A4 without a tip is the first choice, but my wife (this one would be hers, regardless of my selection) says "the Merc C320 4Matic and the A4 3.2 Tip are the first two cars from Germany that would be "acceptable" with auto transmissions." The CTS/SRX passes on this regard from the US as does the Infiniti G35x from Japan.
We will not make any decision "in the heat of the passion of the dashboard lights" [sic] -- Meatloaf.
Drove a 3.2Q tip right after a 5er today,just for fun.Just a few comments since every thing else has been covered.
Pricing: The MSRP was 40k on the 3.2Q as was on the 2.0TQ setting next to it..hmm In addition to the 1500 price increase you have to buy packages other words additional $2100 to get a moonroof. I guess I yearn for the old days when "ette was available and a 4cylinder would not reach 40k.I do appreciate the "free" fold down rear seats tho..
Oddly enough I checked the Brochure after getting home and saw the weight was 3726lbs!, If I purchase one ill get a special plate that says "porkey".
The A4 as allways is defiantly the pretty face of the commonly compaired sport sedans. If it makes my short list time will tell.
One big score was I arrived at closing and the young man that has been there for years ,stayed late for our drive . He is a huge Audi enthusiast and I find it rare that sales staff has more knowledge that a well informed buyer from Edmunds. With all the negative Vw/Audi dealer experiences reported I feel I would be treated very well there.
Regards,
DL
The engine and transmission of the BMW are not an issue. The sound system was quite good, but the upgraded system in our tester seemed overpriced.
The exterior of the BMW does not look so 15 minutes ago -- but the overall car does seem less up to date than the other two German's.
The BMW, for the first time ever, was NOT as solid as either the Audi or Mercedes. Some slight tremors could be felt in the BMW over pock-marked secondaries, neither the Audi or the Mercedes were so effected.
If you will indulge me, knowing that I am saying what I am saying in "context" -- the BMW's interior was "cheap" (in a car with an MSRP of over $43K -- without navi -- this is not acceptable).
The oft criticized 2005 G35x'x interior (which is an upgrade over the 2004) bested the BMW's stark, plastic interior (black just like the other two German's).
If we were buying -- leasing -- today, it would require some soul searching to determine if we really would lease the Audi over the BMW knowing the price advantage the BMW brings with it.
Yet, since we do not have to make the decision today, we believe that the Audi will soon no longer be disadvantaged either due to AoA's adjustments (lower) or coincidental with the new BMW 3's announcement and almost certain price increase (speaking of the money factor).
Some have argued that the BMW will retain "an" advantage over the Audi in that it will be more money when comparably equipped but closer money to the Audi on a lease due to the higher residual assumed for the 2006 BMW's -- this would be an historic reversal, if Audi's lease price remains greater than a MORE EXPENSIVE BMW's. The fact that the 2005 5 series -- hardly an old model -- at $4K more -- can be had for over $100 a month less than the newest A6, could be the beginning of a sea change.
On the other hand, Audi would be ill-advised to have less expensive cars lease for more in the long run.
Now, it would seem, is a great time to lease a BMW or Infiniti -- less so an Audi or a Mercedes.
Prediction: with respect to BMW, this topsy turvy situation will NOT stick.
I've driven the 2.0 and the 3.2 and am going to order one of the two soon. I think you mentioned in your review one did not have the sport suspension and it made a big difference. Can you elaborate? Both cars I drove had the sport suspsension, but I'd rather have the 3.2 engine and price is a factor so I'm looking to cut things I could live without. The 3.2 already has 17" wheels and the website touts its standard suspension. I would appreciate any additional thoughts you could give. Thanks.
Saw someone else mention tiplag--I noticed none and my wife has an XC90 so I'm well versed in it.
Both the Audi and the BMW (to be able to make the case, at this point of inflection) come from Germany (Euro based) -- same "dollar vs Euro" issue, i.e. Go to the US Audi and BMW web sites and configure "matching cars" -- and define matching by content or price or both (but you can't do both at the same time). Here is what you will find:
Pretty much all optioned A6 3.2 = $54,770 MSRP
2005 BMW 530
Scenario #1: Equipped as close to an A6 as possible -- $57,620
Scenario #2: Priced as close as possible to an A6 -- $54,320
Comparison on Audiusa vs BMWusa:
Term 36 months and . . .
Miles 15,000 per year
Cap cost reduction $2,500
$54,770 Audi leases at $834 per month
$57,620 BMW leases at $736 per month
$54,320 BMW leases at $690 per month
Difference:
A $57,770 BMW costs $3,528 less to lease than a much less expensive Audi A6
A $54,320 BMW costs $5,184 less to lease than a similarly priced Audi A6
=====
It is NOT the MSRP that is the issue, it is that most cars are in some way financed. In this class, most of the cars are rented (leased).
In a world with easy and quick access to the Internet, someone who has some preference for one brand over another will almost certainly have a threshold of pain financially, and at that point they will go for the lower priced car (which is odd, for in this real example as of 2/25/2005, the BMW is actually a more expensive car [MSRP] when comparably equipped with the Audi -- but can be had for far less money).
My premise is based on the fact that car loyalty has a price. If this upside down state of affairs persists until the time that the 5 series can also be had with AWD, Audi will be in the odd position (for Audi) of being the "me too" brand for a lot of folks who have not followed "25 years of quattro" with the same passion that many on this and other Internet forums have.
Nothing I am saying, or at least almost nothing, has to do with the inherent goodness of the Audi vis a vis its German (and perhaps global) rivals -- Audis, IMHO are in many way still "the standard."
When, for instance, for the past 14 months multiple car magazines proclaim that Infiniti has at last become the Japanese BMW, some folks will at least cross shop German and Japanese brands. One more refresh of the Cadillac CTS to "up its European-like qualities AND add AWD," may also make some American cars more competitive with the German "big three" too.
My rants and raves over the past several months are NOT anti-Audi's products; quite the contrary. I still think Audi has top of the class cars both in form and substance. My ire has been raised concerning marketing (and the leasing arm is part of the marketing mix).
Comparably priced (the checks one has to write regularly, that is), the Audi still is highly competitive with the other Germans, Japanese and American wannabe Germans (but they are NOT comparably priced on the monthly number.) But, the point is, the new Audis ON THAT BASIS (lease cost) ALONE are overpriced.
I look at the Phaeton -- which so many have criticized -- as a bargain because it can be "possessed" for hundreds of dollars per month less than anything comparable from BMW or Mercedes (and, yes even Audi). This is because of "market perception" -- it has to be, for the Phaeton is the fraternal twin of the Audi A8L and there have not been similar outcries that the Audi is "out of its league price-wise." The car buying public, all things being equal or at least "close enough for jazz" often will buy the lower cost "thing" because it is perceived as a better value.
A $57K car that is less money to lease than a $54K car seems to hit the "value proposition" button for people who have the means to consider cars in this MSRP class.
What I am saying is "even money" I go with the Audi; and, even for a bit more money, I go with the Audi. The current state of affairs, however, is clearly working against Audi -- lease wise.
I believe this will be a self-correcting phenom, but I've been wrong before.
I wish it was headed here this summer as my current lease will be up and I'm looking S4,M3,C55 but leaning more towards the M at the moment.
I can understand the starkness of the BMW at least compaired to the Audi, I am not much a fan of the G35. I think it is that im not inclined to the 80's silver look that is staring to dominate tv's, stereo's and dashes of new vehicles..ugh!
Regards,
DL
There are some folks who -- to this day -- are Bimmer Bigots (and likewise there are Audi Bigots, and Cadillac . . . well you get the idea) -- but, imagine if they test drove the A6 and the 530 and found them "comparable" even though they leaned heavily BMW but then found the Audi was hundreds to thousands less (depending on how you calculate.) The Audi might find itself tempting the Bimmer-file.
The reverse seems to be the "current event."
My buddy said, imagine Shell gas was $1.99 a gallon and that across the street, Exxon was $1.69 a gallon for the same grade -- would you cross the street? Most people probably would say "yes."
The reason is the perceived differences probably do exist (and for all I know they may be real) -- but for the savings, I would forgo my loyalty to Shell. Even expensive items like cars, try as they might, have some element of a commodity.
Audis excellent A6 will never win some BMW fans over -- but if the Audi could be positioned as "better" or a higher value, there will be some BMW fans that will "cross the street."
Now, however, if you KNEW that the Exxon gas was 25% water, you would not cross the street for the savings.
If, as each of the world's great automakers keeps upping the ante, and the content and performance of cars (within each class) continues to improve, there will need to be some differentiation -- IF THERE IS REASONABLE pricing parity.
Like you and me, customers will look at two similarly MSRP'd cars and despite their previously proclaimed "love, devotion and surrender," will -- barring major differentiation -- follow the money.
If, in my example, the BMW and the Audi could be leased for the same amount with approximately the same content (of options), only the inherent bias that I have built up for or against one or the other would determine my choice. Audis one last remaining clear differentiator -- quattro -- is fading, not because quattro ain't what it is cracked up to be, but because the market hasn't bought (as far as I can tell) that Hertz-like line, "there's quattro and there's not exactly. . ."
Sometimes, I feel like a screaming voice in the wilderness (someone at AoA needs to get a [marketing] clue).
25 years of Quattro"
DL
Scott
Blowing out the 05's, yes, no, but.
If you really want one of these, you'd better go make the deal tomorrow -- no, make it tonight.
On the other hand, if you are not picky, you can probably find one available for some time to come, but my guess is that the dealers would rather convert some of these leftovers into loaners, rather than let them go too much below MSRP.
On the other hand, an S4 can probably be had for at least 10% off sticker sometime this month.
The lease rates on the new 5.5's are very steep right now. You can probably lease a 50k S4 in the same range as 43-44k 3.2 A4 because the money factor rates are so high on the new 5.5 cars. And also beacuse of the high residual on the S4.
Dealers know they can switch a customer to an S4 for the same payments, so there is no need to give the cars away. And spring is right around the corner, so the speed demons will be coming out looking for cars the cars anyway.
It all depends where you live as well.
Is that car an '04?
- Ray
Not seeing anything remotely like that near Hot-Lanta today . . .
The A8's have full screen navi (DVD).
The leftover A4's A6's, allroad's, S4's and TT's have -- some of them, anyway -- navi-lite.
The new 2005.5 (even though the window stickers say 2005) A4's also have full screen navi (or may so be equipped).
Any Audi car, that is, that has the new grille may be equipped with Navigation Plus, the newest A8, even if it lacks the new grille or is last year's model, also will have the Navigation Plus.
If, in my remarks, I have "mixed my metaphores" or something like that -- it has been unintentional.
When I have discussed test drives of the new for 2005.5, designated as 2005 A4's for instance, with navigation, I mean 2.0T's or 3.2's and Full Screen Navigation.
I know of NO currently for sale (in the US) Audi cabs that have full screen navigation.
I assume the moment the "new face" shows up (on any Audi model) that full screen will be "available."
We currently drive a 2002 Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon, I believe it's probably the smallest engine offered on it. I don't know much about engines at all, I just assume the higher the number the more powerful it is. I like the way it handles, it has plenty of power for me. I'm not really looking for a huge amount of power, I drive pretty slow in general anyway, but I would like to have some power there when I need to it pass a car going even slower than me. Husband would like more power, but I'll be driving it most of the time anyway.
I'd like a bit more of a luxury feeling than the subbie, but nothing pretentious either. more of an understated elegance.
What I haven't seen much info on is the long term reliability of Audi's. It seems that most ppl I've heard from have leased it, but we'll be buying and I'd love to be able to hand this car to my now 3 yr old when he starts driving.
So essentially, we're looking for a wagon with good reliability, decent fuel economy, a somewhat luxurious feel to the interior, good handling, and enough power to at least compare to our subaru. So far my answer is Audi's A4 Avant, most likely the 2.0 version. Any opinions?