Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen

roadburner said:

From Jalopnik: The 325 Horsepower Ford Fusion Sport Is Not the Audi Slayer We Wanted I'm hearing of 0-60 times in the mid to low five second range. Yawn.

Yikes! That is a crying shame. I am shocked at the near 4k lb curb weight. That is even more than my V Sport, which explains the slow acceleration.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

andres3 said:

So I was ready to pull the trigger on a Optima LX Turbo, but the blue paint underwhelmed me. More purple hue than I like, but worse, it was super orange peel city the to max. Not sure if it is Kia, that particular one (there weren't 2 to compare), or what, but man I was disappointed in the paint job. The blue accentuates the body shop quality paint job.

Due to that disappointment we were $450 apart at the end of the night so I'm home without a punch. Kia is apparently incentivizing the 2 year lease $300 better than the 3 year lease, but I don't like the numbers on the 2 year lease because it gives less time to bury all the hidden fees of a lease, and that shows in the payment.

I also don't like that rebates are taxed; not considered a discount .

2 year leases are tricky like that. You've got you acquisition fee up front, your disposition fee at the end (assuming you ride the lease out & don't lease another of the same make), as well as registration, plates (in CT the car is titled to the leasing company, so you can't transfer plates), plus all your rebate taxes that get rolled into 24 months as opposed to 36 months. You've got close to $1800 - $2000 right there. That adds an extra $83 per month to the lease.

Good thing you walked. No harm, no foul. I'm curious as to what the numbers are as well. You could always try another dealer. Labor Day is a L O N G weekend!

$24,970 msrp
1820 discount
3,200 rebate
19,950 total
365.75 fees
tax 1,858.41

36 month 12K mile/year lease is $252.26/mo with 880.41 upfront.

Good deal?

I'm at 19,500 I think they'll do it today ($450 more off). Called me already.

stickguy

low 5 seconds is slow now? Damn. I can't keep up with the nuclear arms race.

Andre, looks like a pretty good deal. Hope I find something I like for that kind of deal next year when I am shopping.

andres3

stickguy said:

low 5 seconds is slow now? Damn. I can't keep up with the nuclear arms race.

Andre, looks like a pretty good deal. Hope I find something I like for that kind of deal next year when I am shopping.

Thanks, I think I'll pick it up today as my first lease ever.

Either the over orange peeled purple hued blue, or the $200 extra white pearl..... (willing to split the $400 difference if we don't like the blue upon second viewing). Only color Kia charges more for is the pearl/metallic white; go figure. But if it buys a less orange peel paint job.....

stickguy

I think of leases differently. As in, not my car. So a mediocre paint job? NBD. Could also just be that car, or maybe the color.

henryn

stickguy said:

I think of leases differently. As in, not my car. So a mediocre paint job? NBD. Could also just be that car, or maybe the color.

"As in, not my car." == Yet another reason why I will probably never lease. I'm having a hard time stopping myself from spending money on this Passat, which I primarily bought to turn a profit. If it's mine, I want it to be shiny and pretty and have new tires and ....

stickguy

oh, I still OCD just as much about the car I lease as I do about the one I own (maybe more, worried about a perfect turn in report card!). But smaller things I notice that might concern me long term, I realize don't matter since in just over a year, it goes back. Repair costs out of warranty fit into that category.

Tires I will milk for all they are worth. No way I am putting new sneakers on to give it back! Though given the fact that I will probably not break 14,000 miles in the first 2 years, likely not going to be a problem.

js06gv

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

low 5 seconds is slow now? Damn. I can't keep up with the nuclear arms race.

Andre, looks like a pretty good deal. Hope I find something I like for that kind of deal next year when I am shopping.

Thanks, I think I'll pick it up today as my first lease ever.

Either the over orange peeled purple hued blue, or the $200 extra white pearl..... (willing to split the $400 difference if we don't like the blue upon second viewing). Only color Kia charges more for is the pearl/metallic white; go figure. But if it buys a less orange peel paint job.....

I think you'll like the white pearl better. When I got our black '16 Optima last month, I was seriously considering white pearl. And this is from someone who has never liked/owned a white vehicle before. The pearl looks classy on this car.

corvette

White is a good color on a car. Now that I have the JSW, that makes three solid white cars and two metallic white ones in my history.

roadburner

stickguy said:

low 5 seconds is slow now? Damn. I can't keep up with the nuclear arms race.

Maybe not "slow," but it's hardly a rocket ship; I'd call anything under 4.5 seconds to qualify as fast.

roadburner

corvette said:

White is a good color on a car. Now that I have the JSW, that makes three solid white cars and two metallic white ones in my history.

I love my white 2; it's my first white car and it's great at not showing dirt.

henryn

roadburner said:

stickguy said:

low 5 seconds is slow now? Damn. I can't keep up with the nuclear arms race.

Maybe not "slow," but it's hardly a rocket ship; I'd call anything under 4.5 seconds to qualify as fast.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. In my mind, low 5 seconds is fast. And to me, this is not a "relative thing". Any car that can do 0 to 60 in the low 5 second range is going to be a LOT of fun when you boot it, and feel that adrenaline rush.

Even if I live long enough to see the average econobox doing 4.5 seconds, I'm still going to think low 5's is d___ fast.

stickguy

plus, 0-60 is pretty meaningless anyway, for the majority of the time. Largely because most people don't do brake torque launches or clutch dumps from a stop light.

I would give up a few tenths 0-60 to get more robust mid range punch and flexibility. such as what Driver always needs, say 30-70, to merge onto the highway.

andres3

I don't know, I want a car that is fast from 0-5, 5-10, 10- 20, 20-30, and so on and so forth (you get the idea). I don't want a "slow" zone.

So count me in for a punch! The wife and I chose the pearl White when they had them side by side with the Horizon Blue. The sticker is $300 extra so we split it with the dealership for a last second add-on of $150.

They did come down to my base number. However, Leases are not cheap, even if my monthly payment is since I put $2,000 down as the first payment.

This is my first lease ever and a couple of things I didn't like:

1) No one can make any sense mathematically of the numbers or how they arrive at them on the contract, including the inexperienced finance guy that did my paperwork.

2) There's at least 4 more computations and take-aways (i.e. charges/fees) than with a purchase. Not as simple as some here have indicated. Capitalized costs and more that just don't match any other numbers.

3) Essentially you can lease a mid-size sedan these days for about $10,000 for 3 years and 36,000 miles. Residual is still well over $13,000. Simple math tells me I'd have been better off buying at around $20.7 to 21K then vs. $23K (of course I have the option to get rid of it too with the lease)! Interest on money is low these days so tied up money isn't the end of the world.

However, here is what I like:

4) New car under warranty the whole time frame - 1st oil change covered (although odd it is recommended at 3K miles for the 1.6T, then every 5K thereafter). Funny how a 100K power-train warranty makes the maintenance interval go way down as compared to others.

5) Modern car with some of the latest tech, conveniences, and safety built-in.

6) similar to #5, the best in efficiency and fuel economy (and peppy too!).

I think an Accord Sport would have been $55 more per month including taxes with all the rest being equal. Essentially $2K.

I obviously opted to save the $2K. I just hope the Kia can deliver a 3-year term experience similar or better to my last Honda. Is the Optima 5-star safety rated like Honda's?

I chose to reward the use of a good small turbo motor and a dual clutch 7-speed. I think that's the right direction while Honda probably has the best 2.4L 4-banger ever made, but they pair with with a CVT (to be fair, maybe the best CVT ever made, but still inferior I think. I like Kia's latest styling too.

I hope the FE lives up to the EPA ratings. The car seems to handle really well riding on low rolling resistance Michelin tires.

Kia hit a sweet spot for me and my personal preferences with the LX Turbo 1.6: No moon roof, beige interior, non-cheap plastic steering wheel (they claim it's leather at least, and it is better than typical plastic), push button start, rear camera,

A couple concessions though:

1) They cheap out on several parts and pieces that should be beige instead of black on the interior (when you choose beige), and I'm not just talking about carpet. Examples include the lower part of the doors and the switch gear face plate trim on the doors.

2) No spare tire, though there is room to buy one; how much does a skinny temp spare wheel/tire combo cost? There is a kit.

3) I didn't want to spend more this time around, but they should think about offering a sportier tuned suspension with 17" wheels with a wider tire with this engine/transmission combo. Would compete better with the Accord Sport.

js06gv

andres3 said:

I don't know, I want a car that is fast from 0-5, 5-10, 10- 20, 20-30, and so on and so forth (you get the idea). I don't want a "slow" zone.

So count me in for a punch! The wife and I chose the pearl White when they had them side by side with the Horizon Blue. The sticker is $300 extra so we split it with the dealership for a last second add-on of $150.

They did come down to my base number. However, Leases are not cheap, even if my monthly payment is since I put $2,000 down as the first payment.

This is my first lease ever and a couple of things I didn't like:

1) No one can make any sense mathematically of the numbers or how they arrive at them on the contract, including the inexperienced finance guy that did my paperwork.

2) There's at least 4 more computations and take-aways (i.e. charges/fees) than with a purchase. Not as simple as some here have indicated. Capitalized costs and more that just don't match any other numbers.

3) Essentially you can lease a mid-size sedan these days for about $10,000 for 3 years and 36,000 miles. Residual is still well over $13,000. Simple math tells me I'd have been better off buying at around $20.7 to 21K then vs. $23K (of course I have the option to get rid of it too with the lease)! Interest on money is low these days so tied up money isn't the end of the world.

However, here is what I like:

4) New car under warranty the whole time frame - 1st oil change covered (although odd it is recommended at 3K miles for the 1.6T, then every 5K thereafter). Funny how a 100K power-train warranty makes the maintenance interval go way down as compared to others.

5) Modern car with some of the latest tech, conveniences, and safety built-in.

6) similar to #5, the best in efficiency and fuel economy (and peppy too!).

I think an Accord Sport would have been $55 more per month including taxes with all the rest being equal. Essentially $2K.

I obviously opted to save the $2K. I just hope the Kia can deliver a 3-year term experience similar or better to my last Honda. Is the Optima 5-star safety rated like Honda's?

I chose to reward the use of a good small turbo motor and a dual clutch 7-speed. I think that's the right direction while Honda probably has the best 2.4L 4-banger ever made, but they pair with with a CVT (to be fair, maybe the best CVT ever made, but still inferior I think. I like Kia's latest styling too.

I hope the FE lives up to the EPA ratings. The car seems to handle really well riding on low rolling resistance Michelin tires.

Kia hit a sweet spot for me and my personal preferences with the LX Turbo 1.6: No moon roof, beige interior, non-cheap plastic steering wheel (they claim it's leather at least, and it is better than typical plastic), push button start, rear camera,

A couple concessions though:

1) They cheap out on several parts and pieces that should be beige instead of black on the interior (when you choose beige), and I'm not just talking about carpet. Examples include the lower part of the doors and the switch gear face plate trim on the doors.

2) No spare tire, though there is room to buy one; how much does a skinny temp spare wheel/tire combo cost? There is a kit.

3) I didn't want to spend more this time around, but they should think about offering a sportier tuned suspension with 17" wheels with a wider tire with this engine/transmission combo. Would compete better with the Accord Sport.

The spare tire thing ticked me off too. I wouldn't have even known to question that, but thanks to some internet browsing right before I left the dealer I popped the trunk on my SX and took a peek. Glad I did. My car was sourced from another dealer and was missing both the spare and the inflator kit. Back in I go and the manager apologized, throwing my young salesman under the bus (he had just gone home) for not checking this before delivery. He said some trim levels come with the kit only, but every SX/SXL should have the spare. He ran out and pulled a spare from another SX and put it in mine. At the same time, he also noticed mine didn't have floor mats either, so he also grabbed those from the donor car. My bad for not noticing that on my own. I must be slipping in my old age as I'd never drive off in a car with no mats but I almost did. The manager said that swaps in from other dealers often find them "stripped" of easy things that can be removed like spares and mats, and it's the salesman's responsibility to check these things prior to delivery. I know mine got an earful the next day, because he reached out to apologize again and told me to bring it back for a tank of gas and a full detail when my daughter makes her first weekend trip home from college.

nyccarguy

Nice ride @andres3. Congrats on the punch. I think it will serve you well for the next 3 years. Post a pic when you can. So what is your final payment? What does the $2K down include?

I've done some leasing in the past. I agree it's expensive, especially if you do close to 20K per year like I do. Sometimes you just sign on the dotted line & enjoy

Sandman6472

Love the new Optima's at work, we have base LX's in our fleet, and they just do everything right! Good looks, comfortable seats, ergonomics are top notch...this is the vehicle I'd buy if were in the mid-size market. Think the dash is a bit nicer nicer than the Sonata's which is very nice also. And the warranty is outstanding.
Just surprised that you're adding a third vehicle to the fleet. Only guess is that you want to keep the miles off the Audi which is a smart move. Our A3 is white over black and very glad we chose it over the black over black. We saw that combo yesterday while getting petrol and both agreed that we did make the better color choice. Since we bought so early in the new model year, we were limited on the color combo's we could choose from. Prefer the blue over beige or the gray over gray and not sure what the wife would've picked had she more choices here.

The Sandman

stever

Congrats @andres3 - and yes, pics please.

Michaell

@andres3 - congrats on the new Kia!

And, leasing really isn't that complicated. Agreed that many finance folks don't understand it as well - they simply plug the numbers into the app and it spits out a payment.

When I was negotiating my Jetta, I watched the GM use the app and he got numbers different from my .xls spreadsheet. Turns out he was using the wrong numbers - or the app was making assumptions that were wrong. Once we cleared that up, the numbers matched within pennies.

Either way, enjoy the new car and keep the miles off the TT.

henryn

I don't know, I would rather just own it. My car, my responsibility. The idea of being responsible for a car that is actually owned by someone else, someone who will hold me accountable at the end of the lease, is just not appealing to me. Add in all that nonsense about extra fees due at turn-in (if you don't lease another one), and here in Texas, paying sales tax on the whole amount, and it just doesn't work for me.

But if it works for you, more power to you!

andres3

The spare tire thing ticked me off too. I wouldn't have even known to question that, but thanks to some internet browsing right before I left the dealer I popped the trunk on my SX and took a peek. Glad I did. My car was sourced from another dealer and was missing both the spare and the inflator kit. Back in I go and the manager apologized, throwing my young salesman under the bus (he had just gone home) for not checking this before delivery. He said some trim levels come with the kit only, but every SX/SXL should have the spare. He ran out and pulled a spare from another SX and put it in mine. At the same time, he also noticed mine didn't have floor mats either, so he also grabbed those from the donor car. My bad for not noticing that on my own. I must be slipping in my old age as I'd never drive off in a car with no mats but I almost did. The manager said that swaps in from other dealers often find them "stripped" of easy things that can be removed like spares and mats, and it's the salesman's responsibility to check these things prior to delivery. I know mine got an earful the next day, because he reached out to apologize again and told me to bring it back for a tank of gas and a full detail when my daughter makes her first weekend trip home from college.



I was in a hurry and finance took forever (so much for leases being less paperwork; that's a false statement).

I do feel like I'm not quite the owner and it's not quite a full punch. Some pride of ownership is missing. A lease feels more like a long-term rental car to me. However, since it is very long term at 3 years, there is more I will do (like keep it relatively clean) that I would never do in a short term rental.

I will drive the hell out of it though But heck, I do that to cars I really own too. We'll see if the Kia can handle it. Their maintenance intervals sure seem like an insurance policy no matter how hard I drive it.

I did something I said I'd never do, I leased it without having test driven it. The last second switch-a-roo from blue to white meant I had driven 3 Kia Optima's (including two LX turbos already), so I skipped that part being in a hurry (I did check it was low mileage at 27. Thankfully there were no obvious rattles or other quirks on the drive home. I think the extra long warranty does buy some trust as I've never owned a Korean car before. Also was leasing so I'm not committed forever.

When will they start leasing used cars out? Say from year 3 to 6? Seems like a good business idea to me for cheapskates.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

Nice ride @andres3. Congrats on the punch. I think it will serve you well for the next 3 years. Post a pic when you can. So what is your final payment? What does the $2K down include?

I've done some leasing in the past. I agree it's expensive, especially if you do close to 20K per year like I do. Sometimes you just sign on the dotted line & enjoy

That would be two 10K/year leases then for you.....but you have an old car you love already.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

Nice ride @andres3. Congrats on the punch. I think it will serve you well for the next 3 years. Post a pic when you can. So what is your final payment? What does the $2K down include?

I've done some leasing in the past. I agree it's expensive, especially if you do close to 20K per year like I do. Sometimes you just sign on the dotted line & enjoy

That would be two 10K/year leases then for you.....but you have an old car you love already.

andres3

Michaell said:

@andres3 - congrats on the new Kia!

And, leasing really isn't that complicated. Agreed that many finance folks don't understand it as well - they simply plug the numbers into the app and it spits out a payment.

When I was negotiating my Jetta, I watched the GM use the app and he got numbers different from my .xls spreadsheet. Turns out he was using the wrong numbers - or the app was making assumptions that were wrong. Once we cleared that up, the numbers matched within pennies.

Either way, enjoy the new car and keep the miles off the TT.

I've got a problem, I paid and tuned my TTS into a TTRS on the same day I got the Kia delivered home!

I want to drive both! LOL. The Kia is more fuel efficient, and pretty quick, but the TTS Stage 1 is an irresponsible riot and BEAST.

andres3

Yes, while most Audi's make excellent daily drivers, I think the TTS makes sacrifices in the name of performance that make daily driving more expensive. For instance, a lighter 6-speed DSG (lightweight improves handling in the twisties), but makes highway top out at about 26 MPG at 80 MPH. Will only get worse with my tuning and tire plans (soft sticky wear-fast tires). Kia might compete with the TDI on highway mileage according to the EPA. I know gas isn't expensive right now, but in CA it is still hovering around $2.50/gallon.

andres3

henryn said:

I don't know, I would rather just own it. My car, my responsibility. The idea of being responsible for a car that is actually owned by someone else, someone who will hold me accountable at the end of the lease, is just not appealing to me. Add in all that nonsense about extra fees due at turn-in (if you don't lease another one), and here in Texas, paying sales tax on the whole amount, and it just doesn't work for me.

But if it works for you, more power to you!

I agree with you, I might not lease again, but then again never say never. I felt like you should try anything once in life.

Another benefit is if you don't trust a manufacturer yet, you can wade into the waters before jumping in. One thing I didn't research much was safety. I figure all '16 models are pretty safe, but I know Honda always has made pretty safe cars when buying non-German or Swedish vehicles.

Michaell

andres3 said:

The spare tire thing ticked me off too. I wouldn't have even known to question that, but thanks to some internet browsing right before I left the dealer I popped the trunk on my SX and took a peek. Glad I did. My car was sourced from another dealer and was missing both the spare and the inflator kit. Back in I go and the manager apologized, throwing my young salesman under the bus (he had just gone home) for not checking this before delivery. He said some trim levels come with the kit only, but every SX/SXL should have the spare. He ran out and pulled a spare from another SX and put it in mine. At the same time, he also noticed mine didn't have floor mats either, so he also grabbed those from the donor car. My bad for not noticing that on my own. I must be slipping in my old age as I'd never drive off in a car with no mats but I almost did. The manager said that swaps in from other dealers often find them "stripped" of easy things that can be removed like spares and mats, and it's the salesman's responsibility to check these things prior to delivery. I know mine got an earful the next day, because he reached out to apologize again and told me to bring it back for a tank of gas and a full detail when my daughter makes her first weekend trip home from college. I was in a hurry and finance took forever (so much for leases being less paperwork; that's a false statement). I do feel like I'm not quite the owner and it's not quite a full punch. Some pride of ownership is missing. A lease feels more like a long-term rental car to me. However, since it is very long term at 3 years, there is more I will do (like keep it relatively clean) that I would never do in a short term rental. I will drive the hell out of it though But heck, I do that to cars I really own too. We'll see if the Kia can handle it. Their maintenance intervals sure seem like an insurance policy no matter how hard I drive it. I did something I said I'd never do, I leased it without having test driven it. The last second switch-a-roo from blue to white meant I had driven 3 Kia Optima's (including two LX turbos already), so I skipped that part being in a hurry (I did check it was low mileage at 27. Thankfully there were no obvious rattles or other quirks on the drive home. I think the extra long warranty does buy some trust as I've never owned a Korean car before. Also was leasing so I'm not committed forever. When will they start leasing used cars out? Say from year 3 to 6? Seems like a good business idea to me for cheapskates.    

Both BMW and Lexus have CPO lease programs. 

stickguy

depends really on your situation. I did it purely for ST cash flow needs (during college years). depending on where I am at overall next year, might lease again. Might not!

I also did it for my daughter, since I was sort of pushed into a corner wanting something newer/more suited for long drives down south for her. The jetta lease was for exactly the right time frame (goes about 2 months beyond graduation) then I am done. Finding a suitable used car at a good price was not as easy as it sounds.

plus, maintenance and roadside is all covered, and will be under warranty the whole time. Less chance of a breakdown (at least, should be) and if something does happen, it is all on VW to deal with it. Plus it was cheap. as long as she takes care of it, all good.

also, depending on residual, etc. she has mentioned buying it out, since she will need something.

The Sonata I just did for saving money too.

andres3

The new pearl white '16 KIA OPTIMA LX 1.6T ECO model:

benjaminh

Good looking car! Congrats!!++++

Do the mirror fold like that automatically?

andres3

benjaminh said:

Good looking car! Congrats!!++++

Do the mirror fold like that automatically?

Yes, lots of customize-able features you'd only find in luxury makes just half a decade ago.

In the fairly large size Optima I find the feature very useful (as you see I have a narrow canopy area alongside my garage). The TTS has the same thing, but I turned it off because the fender flaring for the wide tires and body paneling sticks out the same as the extended side mirrors! Made no sense.

ab348

I've leased my last 2 cars. If you are concerned about cash flow and a reduced monthly payment it makes sense. I think it also makes sense if you are worried about getting stuck with a troublesome car after the warranty is up. And if you like to change cars regularly, it enables that too.

My ATS lease is up in 13 months. It is an interesting dilemma. Since I retired I barely use it. It has very low miles and has had virtually no issues. I really like driving it and the only issue is the lack of practicality - it can really hold no more than 2 passengers and the trunk is small. The buyout at lease end is $24K or so. That is probably a bit higher than what they would go for on the used market here but most would have a lot more miles than mine. I suppose when the time comes I will look to see what else $24K would buy me, and look to see what else might be available to lease for a reasonable amount.

benjaminh

andres3: I assume if you fall in the love with the car you can buy it for a good price if you want to at the end of the lease?

andres3

I'm looking at the $400 disposition fee (returning the car to Kia) as a built-in fee since I already know about it. Rather than a penalty for not keeping the car, I'm looking at it as a BONUS for keeping the car at 3 years.

Something tells me the residuals are optimistic (54% at 3 years and 36K miles), and the $400 still won't make the deal make sense unless the car is flawless and averages 110%+ of EPA fuel economy!

andres3

I think someone asked, so my bargained for bottom line worked on competing quotes ended up being:

$2,000 down $205/mo. for the Kia LX Turbo. Unlike other makes the '16's are not leftovers, '17's not coming until at least January from what I was told.

$2,000 down $260/mo. for the Honda Sport '16 leftover.

Prices above are all-in except for Kia charges $400 to return the car. Not sure what Honda charges.

corvette

andres3, congrats on the punch and the tune!

Hope you don't have warranty issues with the tune on the TTS.

stever

Nice @andres3. Looks a bit like a ticket magnet, but I'm sure that won't be an issue for you.

suydam

Nice looking car! Congrats!

nyccarguy

I'm not opposed to leasing in any way. I think it's a great tool to use as @breld & @stickguy have. I usually steer people towards leasing who are thinking of a "cheap used car." Once the cars get pricey, I'd have to look at the lease vs finance numbers to see if leasing makes sense. I'm a big advocate of leasing if you can afford the car to begin with.

nyccarguy

@andres3 - I saw a White Optima SX-L Turbo today on my way to the Yankees game with my son (he insisted we take the Prelude). Sharp looking! Definitely looks like a player in the mid sized market.

Nice lookin' ride @andres3

mjfloyd1

corvette said:

andres3, congrats on the punch and the tune!

Hope you don't have warranty issues with the tune on the TTS.

I hope he doesn't have warranty issues with the APR tuned TTS either. It looks like stage I takes it from 280 ft-lb to 409 ft-lb of torque. Hopefully the DSG is up for it!

js06gv

andres3 said:

I think someone asked, so my bargained for bottom line worked on competing quotes ended up being: $2,000 down $205/mo. for the Kia LX Turbo. Unlike other makes the '16's are not leftovers, '17's not coming until at least January from what I was told. $2,000 down $260/mo. for the Honda Sport '16 leftover. Prices above are all-in except for Kia charges $400 to return the car. Not sure what Honda charges.

If after driving the car for a month or so you think it's a keeper, you could always buy out the lease and finance it traditionally, thus taking advantage of the extra $3,200 lease cash you wouldn't have otherwise received. Or I guess more like $1,200 if the regular rebate was still $2,000. 

andres3

corvette said:

andres3, congrats on the punch and the tune!

Hope you don't have warranty issues with the tune on the TTS.

APR has a pretty great rep from what I could gather, and I did rack up over 8K lemon-proof-proving miles in 4 months on that TTS before doing it!

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

corvette said:

andres3, congrats on the punch and the tune!

Hope you don't have warranty issues with the tune on the TTS.

I hope he doesn't have warranty issues with the APR tuned TTS either. It looks like stage I takes it from 280 ft-lb to 409 ft-lb of torque. Hopefully the DSG is up for it!

Based on my preliminary research the DSG is supposed to be about the stoutest part of the car; capable of handling much more power ala TTRS.

I've done Unitronic, Revo, and APR (granted, on 3 different Audi's). I can already vote APR the winner with no hesitation. Of course, that doesn't take into account long term reliability which is yet to be proven.

Passing on 2-lane highways is not an issue anymore, even with jacka**** that speed up when you move to pass.

andres3

js06gv said:

andres3 said:

I think someone asked, so my bargained for bottom line worked on competing quotes ended up being:

$2,000 down $205/mo. for the Kia LX Turbo. Unlike other makes the '16's are not leftovers, '17's not coming until at least January from what I was told.

$2,000 down $260/mo. for the Honda Sport '16 leftover.

Prices above are all-in except for Kia charges $400 to return the car. Not sure what Honda charges.

If after driving the car for a month or so you think it's a keeper, you could always buy out the lease and finance it traditionally, thus taking advantage of the extra $3,200 lease cash you wouldn't have otherwise received. Or I guess more like $1,200 if the regular rebate was still $2,000. 

Is there any benefit to doing that now rather than at the end of 36 months? Is it like paying down debt to save interest? They did mention that as an option early on so I could take advantage of the discounts.

js06gv

I think it really depends on whether or not you think you'd like to flip it for something else in 36 mos. If you want to keep it, I'd look at converting now vs later. If not, or you aren't sure, ride out the lease. You can do the math both ways and see. 

andres3

js06gv said:

I think it really depends on whether or not you think you'd like to flip it for something else in 36 mos. If you want to keep it, I'd look at converting now vs later. If not, or you aren't sure, ride out the lease. You can do the math both ways and see. 

Yeah, I think I'll ride out the lease. It'll take 3 years for Kia to earn my trust

Another thing about leasing I like is it allows me to time and pace my "car shopping" since I have a target goal end date to find something else preferable if I think I can find greener grasses. Shopping used cars vs. new takes time and energy as it opens up a world of possibilities.

I felt a little rushed to lease or buy this time as I wanted to stop daily driving the TTS sooner rather than later after 4 months of heavy daily driving.

Michaell

andres3 said:

js06gv said:

andres3 said:

I think someone asked, so my bargained for bottom line worked on competing quotes ended up being:

$2,000 down $205/mo. for the Kia LX Turbo. Unlike other makes the '16's are not leftovers, '17's not coming until at least January from what I was told.

$2,000 down $260/mo. for the Honda Sport '16 leftover.

Prices above are all-in except for Kia charges $400 to return the car. Not sure what Honda charges.

If after driving the car for a month or so you think it's a keeper, you could always buy out the lease and finance it traditionally, thus taking advantage of the extra $3,200 lease cash you wouldn't have otherwise received. Or I guess more like $1,200 if the regular rebate was still $2,000. 

Is there any benefit to doing that now rather than at the end of 36 months? Is it like paying down debt to save interest? They did mention that as an option early on so I could take advantage of the discounts.

The buyout is the residual value plus the sum of the remaining payments. Yes, the balance of the lease goes down each month - check your credit score to see the balance. IIRC, the money factor on Kia leases is a bit higher than average - the lease cash mitigates that somewhat.

andres3

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

js06gv said:

andres3 said:

I think someone asked, so my bargained for bottom line worked on competing quotes ended up being:

$2,000 down $205/mo. for the Kia LX Turbo. Unlike other makes the '16's are not leftovers, '17's not coming until at least January from what I was told.

$2,000 down $260/mo. for the Honda Sport '16 leftover.

Prices above are all-in except for Kia charges $400 to return the car. Not sure what Honda charges.

If after driving the car for a month or so you think it's a keeper, you could always buy out the lease and finance it traditionally, thus taking advantage of the extra $3,200 lease cash you wouldn't have otherwise received. Or I guess more like $1,200 if the regular rebate was still $2,000. 

Is there any benefit to doing that now rather than at the end of 36 months? Is it like paying down debt to save interest? They did mention that as an option early on so I could take advantage of the discounts.

The buyout is the residual value plus the sum of the remaining payments. Yes, the balance of the lease goes down each month - check your credit score to see the balance. IIRC, the money factor on Kia leases is a bit higher than average - the lease cash mitigates that somewhat.

So it sounds like to me the amount I have to pay to buy it out is written in stone no matter when I decide to do it. It is just a matter of spreading out the payments vs. paying it off at once.

Sort of like a free phone is 27x24 which happens to equal the exact amount of MSRP.

Michaell

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

js06gv said:

andres3 said:

I think someone asked, so my bargained for bottom line worked on competing quotes ended up being:

$2,000 down $205/mo. for the Kia LX Turbo. Unlike other makes the '16's are not leftovers, '17's not coming until at least January from what I was told.

$2,000 down $260/mo. for the Honda Sport '16 leftover.

Prices above are all-in except for Kia charges $400 to return the car. Not sure what Honda charges.

If after driving the car for a month or so you think it's a keeper, you could always buy out the lease and finance it traditionally, thus taking advantage of the extra $3,200 lease cash you wouldn't have otherwise received. Or I guess more like $1,200 if the regular rebate was still $2,000. 

Is there any benefit to doing that now rather than at the end of 36 months? Is it like paying down debt to save interest? They did mention that as an option early on so I could take advantage of the discounts.

The buyout is the residual value plus the sum of the remaining payments. Yes, the balance of the lease goes down each month - check your credit score to see the balance. IIRC, the money factor on Kia leases is a bit higher than average - the lease cash mitigates that somewhat.

So it sounds like to me the amount I have to pay to buy it out is written in stone no matter when I decide to do it. It is just a matter of spreading out the payments vs. paying it off at once.

Sort of like a free phone is 27x24 which happens to equal the exact amount of MSRP.

Almost. Remember, the residual value is calculated against MSRP, but the depreciation is based off the cap cost - negotiated selling price less incentives less cap reduction plus any fees or taxes you didn't pay up front.