Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

andres3

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

js06gv said:

andres3 said:

I think someone asked, so my bargained for bottom line worked on competing quotes ended up being:

$2,000 down $205/mo. for the Kia LX Turbo. Unlike other makes the '16's are not leftovers, '17's not coming until at least January from what I was told.

$2,000 down $260/mo. for the Honda Sport '16 leftover.

Prices above are all-in except for Kia charges $400 to return the car. Not sure what Honda charges.

If after driving the car for a month or so you think it's a keeper, you could always buy out the lease and finance it traditionally, thus taking advantage of the extra $3,200 lease cash you wouldn't have otherwise received. Or I guess more like $1,200 if the regular rebate was still $2,000. 

Is there any benefit to doing that now rather than at the end of 36 months? Is it like paying down debt to save interest? They did mention that as an option early on so I could take advantage of the discounts.

The buyout is the residual value plus the sum of the remaining payments. Yes, the balance of the lease goes down each month - check your credit score to see the balance. IIRC, the money factor on Kia leases is a bit higher than average - the lease cash mitigates that somewhat.

So it sounds like to me the amount I have to pay to buy it out is written in stone no matter when I decide to do it. It is just a matter of spreading out the payments vs. paying it off at once.

Sort of like a free phone is 27x24 which happens to equal the exact amount of MSRP.

Almost. Remember, the residual value is calculated against MSRP, but the depreciation is based off the cap cost - negotiated selling price less incentives less cap reduction plus any fees or taxes you didn't pay up front.

That paragraph you just wrote is where I begin to get lost on leases.

I guess I need to google definitions of Cap Reduction to start.

karhill1

There is no depreciation, for the leasee, with a lease. There is residual value which is calculated off the MSRP. There is also a cash value of the vehicle which may be more or less than the pay off amount at any time.

The payoff at any time is the residual value plus remaining lease payments.

Most people confuse depreciation with cash value. Those are actually two different things.

Depreciation is an accounting concept. Depreciation attempts to spread the cost of an asset over the expected useful life less any residual value, a different residual value than on a lease. When computing depreciation, the residual value is the amount at which the asset can reasonably be expected to be worth at the end of the period.

Take an asset, say a car, which cost $33,000 and has an expected useful life of 5 years at which time it will have a residual value of $3,000. In this example, the depreciable amount is $30,000 ($33,000 less $3,000). With straight line depreciation, 5 years, the annual depreciation would be $6,000 ($30,000/5 years).

If a buyer makes a down payment on the vehicle in the above example, neither depreciation nor cash value is impacted. The cost of the vehicle is still $30,000 and the cash value is not impacted by how much a person puts down on the purchase or lease of the vehicle. The cash value depends on the market.

At any given time the depreciated value will be different than cash value. There are different cash values. For a car you have private sale value, sale to a dealer. value, wholesale value, etc. At any given time the cash value may be different than the depreciated value.

Also, with a lease buyout the leasee generally does not have to pay any disposition fee nor any over mileage or condition fees.

kyfdx

The payoff at any time is the residual value plus remaining lease payments.


This is not always exact or true. Many banks reduce the payoff to account for reduced finance charges, because the lease is being paid off early. So, depreciation matters.. to the bank, and may affect the payoff.

sda

andres3, Congrats, very nice. Looking at the Kia site, the LX 1.6 looks to be the sweet spot considering features, gas mileage and performance. Kia having a designer from Audi doesn't hurt either. Enjoy

nyccarguy

@karhill1 - Hello and welcome to Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous. What cars are currently in your stable? When's the last time you "punched" your CCBA Card (bought or leased a vehicle)?

stickguy

Finance charge reduction on an early payoff may not amount to much, since on most leases, there is barely any effective interest rate anyway.

nyccarguy

uh oh. There's a company called Raptor Superchargers that is supposedly coming out with a "CVT friendly" Supercharger for current generation 2.5L Subaru H4 engines.

stickguy

Might be cheaper than trading in.

Me, I'm still hoping for a sport turbo legacy by MY 2018.

The SC could work for you though. But guessing, not cheap.

stickguy

Or maybe not. Their H6 kit ( quite comprehensive) is almost $4k USD before shipping or fitting.

I would say trade in the 4 banger for a used 6 banger and get your power bump that way. Plus a CPO warranty, and more features!

sda

VW has the 2017 models listed. I've only looked at the Jetta and they have pared back the model offerings; S, SE, SEL, GLI. 1.4 in the S and SE, 1.8 in the SEL and 2.0 in the GLI. The SE looks attractive given that it has the sunroof as standard at around $21k.

andres3

sda said:

andres3, Congrats, very nice. Looking at the Kia site, the LX 1.6 looks to be the sweet spot considering features, gas mileage and performance. Kia having a designer from Audi doesn't hurt either. Enjoy

I agree on the sweet spot assessment, obviously, as I committed to leasing it for 3 years. Sort of like the Accord Sport is a sweet spot in my view. I don't like the new 19" wheels though, and actually preferred the styling of the previous '14-'15 more. For the same dollars (if they were the same dollars; which they are not) I'd of had a tough decision. A good decision to have though as both cars are very good.

I wonder if the designer from Audi has a say so in engineering design as well as aesthetics. Seems like it as it is odd Kia of all companies has joined the ranks of Porsche, Ferrari, and Audi/VW with a dual clutch transmission in a major model line trim (not just an M-model say with BMW or Ford's dabbling unsuccessfully so far.). Acura I think blew it by not offering the transmission with both engine options, and their version didn't seem like it was performed quite right either (I know they still use a power sapping torque converter).

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

Or maybe not. Their H6 kit ( quite comprehensive) is almost $4k USD before shipping or fitting.

I would say trade in the 4 banger for a used 6 banger and get your power bump that way. Plus a CPO warranty, and more features!

Or I could see if the wife wants to semi retire the Pilot next year (keep it for road trips/weekends), pawngive her the Legacy, & see if she'll allow me to get a GTI Sport.

stickguy

I see you have as many convoluted schemes cooking for next year as I do. All seemingly involving (shafting?) the wife somehow.

Some of mine do keep the RDX as the spare car. Some replace it totally.

She likely divorces me by the time this is all over.

ab348

nyccarguy said:

uh oh. There's a company called Raptor Superchargers that is supposedly coming out with a "CVT friendly" Supercharger for current generation 2.5L Subaru H4 engines.

Man, that would probably let them blow head gaskets every 3000 miles or so...

28firefighter

I have been scheming for next year as well. The Escape goes back in June and the A3 gets sold back by January, hopefully.

Wife wants another SUV, but does not want bigger than the Escape. Options are to try and lease something again like the Escape (CR-V, CX-5, Tuscon etc.) or find a CPO Audi Q5/BMW X3/Acura RDX. My preference is for something German, but ultimately wife is going to have some say.

Another wildcard is my Dad's 2014 Touareg TDI. Currently has 67k miles on it and by June will likely have 77k-80k miles on it. That is around the time he'll be looking to get rid of it. He bought it with the 7 year/100k mile bumper-to-bumper VW extended care warranty on it and given the mileage we drive, would give us at least 2-3 years of driving before coming anywhere near running it out. If he is willing to part with it, it could be a good option for us, mostly because I know the history.

stickguy

Isn't a Tuareg way bigger than the escape?

Of your other options, CX5 and Q5 are my favorites. Though the RDX is nice also!

kyfdx

stickguy said:

Isn't a Tuareg way bigger than the escape?

Of your other options, CX5 and Q5 are my favorites. Though the RDX is nice also!

Touaregs are actually pretty cozy on the inside.. A little bigger, outside.

tifighter

Touareg is nice. I liked it a little more than the Q5 TDI on the test drives. But I'm sure my wife would prefer the Q5 size. She thinks our Volvo is too big.

stickguy

Than a tourag would feel like a barge to her!

tifighter

Yeah for sure. She complains about it a lot. This has to be an excuse for a V60 Polestar, right?

She did point out over the weekend that she thought our neighbor's new GTI was 'cute'...

ab348

What's the latest on VW's TDI V-6s like in that Touareg? Are they part of the great diesel buyback as well?

28firefighter

The Touareg is a great truck - it definitely is a little bigger than the Escape, but she felt comfortable enough driving it this weekend when we were in Philly. Right now the 3.0L TDIs have not had a decision made on them - as of now there is no buyback.

I've been trying to sell the station wagon concept (specifically a V60 Polestar), but she wants to sit higher off the ground.

I like the CX-5 as well, sans the less than stellar dealer experiences I've had in the Seattle area and the more practical fact that I think it is incredibly slow.

corvette

ab348 said:

What's the latest on VW's TDI V-6s like in that Touareg? Are they part of the great diesel buyback as well?

Not yet, but could still happen. CARB didn't like the latest fix proposal on the V6. I love the Murano but would dump it in a heartbeat if I could score a similar deal on a Q5/Q7/Touareg/Cayenne and drive it for two years before taking the buyback. 

Sandman6472

And right now, I keep coming back to the Tiguan as my next vehicle. Like the HR-V but have heard the CVT and the engine aren't the greatest as is the lack of power, limited get up and go! Add to the fact that the infotainment center on the EX and EX-L, the two models I would be looking at, have no knobs and are both touch screens, a big turn off me me when driving a vehicle. When driving, I don't like to be distracted by answering the cell or touching the infotainment center to change channels, something I do a lot like many of us baby boomers.
All I know is I like the smaller size vehicle and want to sit up a bit higher. The Tiguan fits the bill perfectly. And once retired again, I want to travel around the U S and see places we've never been to. So I'd like to get in and drive around the country for 3 to 4 months, if not longer. The Tiguan could work for this plan as it would just be the two of us plus luggage and things we pick up along the way. And buying a CPO 2017 unit with low miles could be just the ticket, let someone else take the depreciation.
But right now, this is the current plan, Plan A. Am sure they'll be a Plan B, Plan C, maybe more, just don't know at this point. But after talking with one of my kids and my wife, this is what I would like to do once I retire again given that we're able to. Am figuring once I finish working, I'll be feeling better and well enough to do more, again something the wife and I discussed this weekend. After working the days I do, I'm down on many of my n/s days and not up to doing much. Once work ends, I should feel better and be more ready, willing and able to go do things. Another big reason why I want to retire sooner than later, my chronic pain is so much more under control after being off a bit, I hurt much less!

The Sandman

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

I see you have as many convoluted schemes cooking for next year as I do. All seemingly involving (shafting?) the wife somehow.

Some of mine do keep the RDX as the spare car. Some replace it totally.

She likely divorces me by the time this is all over.

We do think alike my friend!

andres3

Grrrr... Car Max (as I intelligently guesstimated with an educated opinion) lowered the price of the '07 Acura TL with 21 or 22K miles on it today. I had a feeling Carmax and Honda dealers with used '14 Accord Sports were just being greedy trying to take advantage of the Holiday weekend shopping spree. When their cars didn't sell I got phone calls today from all but one. Carmax lowered their price $600 this morning; had they done that on Saturday I'd of likely been a buyer at $16,998. When I first looked at the car it was $17,999 and I thought it was a thousand high. When I first saw the car in person they had lowered it, but not by the thousand I was hoping; they had lowered it to $17599 for the long weekend.

Oh well. Someone else will get a pretty darn good well kept 9+ year old TL with almost no miles on it. It is gold/beige with beige interior. Oh, the sound system does degrade over 9 years. It was pretty average for an "upgraded" system. The '13 I looked at blew it away.

nyccarguy

@stickguy - when's your lease on the Sonata up? Did you say 18 months?

stickguy

November 8, 2017.

but who's counting.

houdini1

28firefighter said:

I have been scheming for next year as well. The Escape goes back in June and the A3 gets sold back by January, hopefully.

Wife wants another SUV, but does not want bigger than the Escape. Options are to try and lease something again like the Escape (CR-V, CX-5, Tuscon etc.) or find a CPO Audi Q5/BMW X3/Acura RDX. My preference is for something German, but ultimately wife is going to have some say.

Another wildcard is my Dad's 2014 Touareg TDI. Currently has 67k miles on it and by June will likely have 77k-80k miles on it. That is around the time he'll be looking to get rid of it. He bought it with the 7 year/100k mile bumper-to-bumper VW extended care warranty on it and given the mileage we drive, would give us at least 2-3 years of driving before coming anywhere near running it out. If he is willing to part with it, it could be a good option for us, mostly because I know the history.

I had a very pleasant surprise a few years ago when I bought my son's RL. It seems, in Kansas at least, if you buy a vehicle from a family member, there is no sales tax. I think I saved about $1200.

mjfloyd1

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

corvette said:

andres3, congrats on the punch and the tune!

Hope you don't have warranty issues with the tune on the TTS.

I hope he doesn't have warranty issues with the APR tuned TTS either. It looks like stage I takes it from 280 ft-lb to 409 ft-lb of torque. Hopefully the DSG is up for it!

Based on my preliminary research the DSG is supposed to be about the stoutest part of the car; capable of handling much more power ala TTRS.

I've done Unitronic, Revo, and APR (granted, on 3 different Audi's). I can already vote APR the winner with no hesitation. Of course, that doesn't take into account long term reliability which is yet to be proven.

Passing on 2-lane highways is not an issue anymore, even with jacka**** that speed up when you move to pass.

The S6 has a DSG with 406 ft lb of torque. The RS7 has 516 ft lb of torque and Audi used the ZF 8 speed AT because it is rated for higher torque.

That's why I was curious. The TTRS has 354 ft lb with the DSG and your APR tuned TTS is rated by APR at 409 ft lb of torque. Hopefully no issues. Pretty close to the torque of the S6 so I bet it's ok assuming the same build.

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

andres3 said:

mjfloyd1 said:

corvette said:

andres3, congrats on the punch and the tune!

Hope you don't have warranty issues with the tune on the TTS.

I hope he doesn't have warranty issues with the APR tuned TTS either. It looks like stage I takes it from 280 ft-lb to 409 ft-lb of torque. Hopefully the DSG is up for it!

Based on my preliminary research the DSG is supposed to be about the stoutest part of the car; capable of handling much more power ala TTRS.

I've done Unitronic, Revo, and APR (granted, on 3 different Audi's). I can already vote APR the winner with no hesitation. Of course, that doesn't take into account long term reliability which is yet to be proven.

Passing on 2-lane highways is not an issue anymore, even with jacka**** that speed up when you move to pass.

The S6 has a DSG with 406 ft lb of torque. The RS7 has 516 ft lb of torque and Audi used the ZF 8 speed AT because it is rated for higher torque.

That's why I was curious. The TTRS has 354 ft lb with the DSG and your APR tuned TTS is rated by APR at 409 ft lb of torque. Hopefully no issues. Pretty close to the torque of the S6 so I bet it's ok assuming the same build.

Is that the torque rating on the new upcoming '17 or '18 TTRS, or the old one you are citing? The old one used a manual transmission, the new upcoming one a DSG and I'd figured it would be closer to 400 ft lb.

Either way more recent R8's use a dual clutch DSG. Early versions used some odd ball single clutch system that people didn't like.

I think I had an over-performing A3 so the stage 1 Unitronic tune was underwhelming. I think I had a good performing stock S4 too, and it was well broken in and trained, so the REVO stage 1 while not underwhelming, was not quite an eye opening experience. The APR tune on the TTS seems to live up to the marketing hype better, but then again, I would say I definitely didn't have an over-performing TTS whereas on the A3 I did. I feel like the Tune woke up the car and makes it perform as intended by the engineers at Audi (before regulations got in the way).

So it might not come down to the software so much as Audi under-rated the A3 and S4 more drastically than the TTS. I'd say the TTS felt like the power was right about as rated, whereas the A3 felt about 20% more HP, and the S4 at least 10%.

sda

It has been 3 years today (9/8/13) that I bought the Accord. I hope I don't lose my CCBA designation for owning a car so long! In the past I'd generally trade every 18 months or so. On the bright side the Accord has been a joy to drive and has just a smidge under 60k--59945 miles.

andres3

Any issues with the Honda Accord from 3 years ago? I know CR has been down on Honda lately.

Michaell

andres3 said:

Any issues with the Honda Accord from 3 years ago? I know CR has been down on Honda lately.

May I respectfully suggest you update your signature line to include the Kia?

mjfloyd1

2017 Audi TTRS has 400 hp and 354 ft lb torque  (another source says 385 ft lb)

breld

andres3 said:

Grrrr... Car Max (as I intelligently guesstimated with an educated opinion) lowered the price of the '07 Acura TL with 21 or 22K miles on it today. I had a feeling Carmax and Honda dealers with used '14 Accord Sports were just being greedy trying to take advantage of the Holiday weekend shopping spree. When their cars didn't sell I got phone calls today from all but one. Carmax lowered their price $600 this morning; had they done that on Saturday I'd of likely been a buyer at $16,998. When I first looked at the car it was $17,999 and I thought it was a thousand high. When I first saw the car in person they had lowered it, but not by the thousand I was hoping; they had lowered it to $17599 for the long weekend.

Oh well. Someone else will get a pretty darn good well kept 9+ year old TL with almost no miles on it. It is gold/beige with beige interior. Oh, the sound system does degrade over 9 years. It was pretty average for an "upgraded" system. The '13 I looked at blew it away.

I wouldn't be all that discouraged - for the intended purpose, I would think the brand new Kia is more enjoyable than the 9 year old Acura, just given the updated tech features and "newness" of the car. Costwise? What do you figure that Acura would be worth in 3 more years? Compare that depreciation to what you're laying out on the Kia lease, and I bet it's not all that different, and any additional amount on the Kia is probably worth it just to be under warranty. Obviously Acuras/Hondas are pretty darn reliable, but any car is gonna have some repair costs at 10 year old.

andres3

breld said:

andres3 said:

Grrrr... Car Max (as I intelligently guesstimated with an educated opinion) lowered the price of the '07 Acura TL with 21 or 22K miles on it today. I had a feeling Carmax and Honda dealers with used '14 Accord Sports were just being greedy trying to take advantage of the Holiday weekend shopping spree. When their cars didn't sell I got phone calls today from all but one. Carmax lowered their price $600 this morning; had they done that on Saturday I'd of likely been a buyer at $16,998. When I first looked at the car it was $17,999 and I thought it was a thousand high. When I first saw the car in person they had lowered it, but not by the thousand I was hoping; they had lowered it to $17599 for the long weekend.

Oh well. Someone else will get a pretty darn good well kept 9+ year old TL with almost no miles on it. It is gold/beige with beige interior. Oh, the sound system does degrade over 9 years. It was pretty average for an "upgraded" system. The '13 I looked at blew it away.

I wouldn't be all that discouraged - for the intended purpose, I would think the brand new Kia is more enjoyable than the 9 year old Acura, just given the updated tech features and "newness" of the car. Costwise? What do you figure that Acura would be worth in 3 more years? Compare that depreciation to what you're laying out on the Kia lease, and I bet it's not all that different, and any additional amount on the Kia is probably worth it just to be under warranty. Obviously Acuras/Hondas are pretty darn reliable, but any car is gonna have some repair costs at 10 year old.

Good points. That's why I was looking at Carmax's service contract where age doesn't matter (if you drive 12K per year or more). It's all about the mileage. On the TL they'd cover it to 75K miles for about $1,250 extra dollars. Not bad; though does have a $50 deductible for each repair.

But that is partially why I stuck to my guns and low number on the Kia, and the Kia dealer and sales manager met my number. Can't complain. I'd of left more money on the table for Kia if I didn't have used options on the table waiting in the wings (mentioning a new Passat was cheaper probably helped too).

sda

andres3 said:

Any issues with the Honda Accord from 3 years ago? I know CR has been down on Honda lately.

I had a minor TSB addressed concerning wind noise around the driver's window, that's it. It has had regular maintenance, filters, oil changes, etc. Original brakes, battery, tires to be replaced shortly. Consistently gets 30 mpg+ and drives nicely. Hard to ask for more. Would I like to have the V6--but of course!

breld

My in-laws have an Accord EX-L that I helped them lease. I've only driven it a little bit, but I always come away impressed with how solid a car it is.

The new facelift is growing on me - it seemed a bit busy at first, but I'm liking it.

Sandman6472

Drove a Tiguan yesterday for a couple of hours. Nice driver and that 2.0 turbo engine almost got me into trouble, but mpg's suck, big time. That's the only drawback I could see with it. Loved the higher seating position and it took off with ziltch turbo lag, looked down a few times and was going ay 80 or above! Can definitely see me owning one after I stop working and we start our cross country America trip. With just the two of us, a Tiguan could definitely work and the extra space will come in handy. There's really nothing else out there right now that fits into my future plans at an affordable price except the HR-V.


The Sandman

andres3

breld said:

My in-laws have an Accord EX-L that I helped them lease. I've only driven it a little bit, but I always come away impressed with how solid a car it is.

The new facelift is growing on me - it seemed a bit busy at first, but I'm liking it.

So believe it or not the Kia LX Turbo 1.6 has a driver mode select between ECO, Normal, and SPORT. I test drove it mostly in SPORT and that's where the car has some fun to it! In normal and eco it is leaning more towards lag, delay, and in general, both of those modes are more eco oriented.

There is no "S" mode on the transmission, but sport driving mode makes everything (but gas mileage) better, so that's no bother.

Get this though, you can put it in manual mode with the stick/lever (no paddles).

Even crazier, and this made me actually literally LOL when I was by myself in the car yesterday on a curvy twisty road. Not only is there an ESC/TSC off button, but just like in an Audi where the driver can have full control, if you hold that ESC button down for 3 or 4 seconds instead of just pushing it briefly, you get everything to shutoff (vs. partial nanny shut-off)! I was impressed and pretty surprised that KIA is still letting the driver choose their medicine..

Mr_Shiftright

Kinda pricey that Kia LX Turbo, isn't it?

nyccarguy

I saw a 2017 GTI Sport in White on a car carrier full of VWs this AM. The Split 5 spoke 18" wheels look fantastic.

28firefighter

nyccarguy said:

I saw a 2017 GTI Sport in White on a car carrier full of VWs this AM. The Split 5 spoke 18" wheels look fantastic.

That is actually the only thing I don't like about the Sport trim - the wheels. I much prefer the Austins.

nyccarguy

28firefighter said:

nyccarguy said:

I saw a 2017 GTI Sport in White on a car carrier full of VWs this AM. The Split 5 spoke 18" wheels look fantastic.

That is actually the only thing I don't like about the Sport trim - the wheels. I much prefer the Austins.

They look better in person than they do on VW's website. The black inserts aren't nearly as pronounced.

breld

andres3 said:

breld said:

My in-laws have an Accord EX-L that I helped them lease. I've only driven it a little bit, but I always come away impressed with how solid a car it is.

The new facelift is growing on me - it seemed a bit busy at first, but I'm liking it.

So believe it or not the Kia LX Turbo 1.6 has a driver mode select between ECO, Normal, and SPORT. I test drove it mostly in SPORT and that's where the car has some fun to it! In normal and eco it is leaning more towards lag, delay, and in general, both of those modes are more eco oriented.

There is no "S" mode on the transmission, but sport driving mode makes everything (but gas mileage) better, so that's no bother.

Get this though, you can put it in manual mode with the stick/lever (no paddles).

Even crazier, and this made me actually literally LOL when I was by myself in the car yesterday on a curvy twisty road. Not only is there an ESC/TSC off button, but just like in an Audi where the driver can have full control, if you hold that ESC button down for 3 or 4 seconds instead of just pushing it briefly, you get everything to shutoff (vs. partial nanny shut-off)! I was impressed and pretty surprised that KIA is still letting the driver choose their medicine..

Yeah - our Kia Sedona has a manual mode too, which I'm totally impressed with that they thought to include that on a minivan. Came in real handy on our road trip over some hilly areas.

breld

nyccarguy said:

I saw a 2017 GTI Sport in White on a car carrier full of VWs this AM. The Split 5 spoke 18" wheels look fantastic.

Did you chase the truck down so you knew where to go shopping?

Michaell

breld said:

andres3 said:

breld said:

My in-laws have an Accord EX-L that I helped them lease. I've only driven it a little bit, but I always come away impressed with how solid a car it is.

The new facelift is growing on me - it seemed a bit busy at first, but I'm liking it.

So believe it or not the Kia LX Turbo 1.6 has a driver mode select between ECO, Normal, and SPORT. I test drove it mostly in SPORT and that's where the car has some fun to it! In normal and eco it is leaning more towards lag, delay, and in general, both of those modes are more eco oriented.

There is no "S" mode on the transmission, but sport driving mode makes everything (but gas mileage) better, so that's no bother.

Get this though, you can put it in manual mode with the stick/lever (no paddles).

Even crazier, and this made me actually literally LOL when I was by myself in the car yesterday on a curvy twisty road. Not only is there an ESC/TSC off button, but just like in an Audi where the driver can have full control, if you hold that ESC button down for 3 or 4 seconds instead of just pushing it briefly, you get everything to shutoff (vs. partial nanny shut-off)! I was impressed and pretty surprised that KIA is still letting the driver choose their medicine..

Yeah - our Kia Sedona has a manual mode too, which I'm totally impressed with that they thought to include that on a minivan. Came in real handy on our road trip over some hilly areas.

11,000 foot passes are "hilly" in your opinion? Man, are we jaded in Colorado, or what?

nyccarguy

breld said:

nyccarguy said:

I saw a 2017 GTI Sport in White on a car carrier full of VWs this AM. The Split 5 spoke 18" wheels look fantastic.

Did you chase the truck down so you knew where to go shopping?

Ha! No. Especially if it was headed toward the VW dealer closest to where I work. You should see the screamer ads they run. It is a VW/Nissan dealer. They advertise a monthly lease payment that doesn't include any miles. Then you pick your mileage and add that to the base monthly payment.

nyccarguy

I'm so "on the fence" about a GTI. There's no doubt I'd love the way it drives. If & when I decide to start looking again, I'd feel obligated to give a WRX a ride around the block. In close to 2 years of Legacy ownership (coming up on 9/27), I've grown to like a lot about the car. One thing is the service department. There are 3 service advisors who all know me. I get a loaner car as long as I schedule my service appointment a week or so in advance.