Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

andre1969

but I'm starting to get the urge again. And not the urge for another old mastodon, but for something newer. Right now I think the two new cars that intrigue me the most are the Charger (probably just a V-6, because I'm not in the mood to spend $30K plus for a car just yet) and the Ford Fusion, with a V-6.

qbrozen

I'm just curious ... any reason why you traded the Volvo and kept the Passat?

qbrozen

The Charger is supposedly a good deal of fun even with the V6 (latest autoweek). Have you driven both? I just think a FWD 220-hp V6 is outclassed by the competition these days.

michaellno

If you fit in the Fusion, you might really like it .. I had a quick drive in a V6 SE and was pleasantly surprised. Lots of equipment for $22-23K ... not sure what the Charger would run you with the 3.5.

You thinking of trading in the Intrepid?

downhome - so, the fleet will shrink when the Mazda goes back? Are there plans to replace it?

phylp - who drives what? Seems odd to have two sedans, but that's just my opinion.

downhomeinga

Will the fleet shrink when the truck goes back?

This is the subject of much arguing right now with the boss lady.

Again, Andre and my tastes are very similar - I am also tempted by the Charger V-6 and Fusion V-6. Might be getting a company paid car soon, and if I do it will likely be a Charger.

If I don't get a company car - well then the arguments with the wife will get more fervent. Would like to find an older little convert - miata, etc - cheap.

The roving eye is always looking for the next addition!

phylp

Excellent question. Glad to answer.

The Volvo S80 was fast, comfortable, and safe, but there were some reliability issues -- especially with the emissions and the Chevrolet transmission. We traded the S80 for the Lexus RX330. So, we came away with "comfortable, safe, and reliable" but we lost "fast." That is why we kept the Passat -- to keep that quasi-sports car element: fast and smooth. There have been some mechanical issues with the Passat along the way, but nothing that affects the wonderful driving experience.

jlawrence01

The Volvo S80 was fast, comfortable, and safe, but there were some reliability issues -- especially with the emissions and the Chevrolet transmission. We traded the S80 for the Lexus RX330.

I had several problems with the Volvo S80 transmissions also (and traded it in on a RX330).

However, why would a Volvo have a Chevy transmission when they are owned by Ford?

andre1969

I really think I'm daydreaming. I'm sure that once I actually start crunching some numbers on a Charger or Fusion (I think the type of Charger I want would only be around $22K or so, so it would be in range with the Fusion) I'd get cold feet.

I'm just too cheap, I guess! It's funny though, that 6 years ago I had no trouble paying over $20K out the door for that Intrepid, but today, even though I'm making more, have more saved up, and so on, but I balk at throwing around that kind of money for another new car.

It could also be that my needs have changed too, though. Back when I bought that Intrepid I had a part time job delivering pizzas, so it was very beneficial to have a reliable new car that got decent mileage. I also lived about 14 miles from my main job. Today though, I live 3 1/2 miles from work and only work the one job, so a reliable car that doesn't break down isn't quite as critical. I could walk to work if I had to.

Plus, I've also seen the benefits of being able to save money, put it in 401ks and Roths and such, so now I've got my sights on early retirement. That may just be a pipe dream too, but I'd rather see my retirement date get moved up a few years than get the instant, but fleeting satisfaction of a new car now.

Okay, I'll stop talking like that in the CCB forum, lest I get shot at! :shades:

phylp

Well, for one thing, the S80 was developed before the Ford acquisition. The story was that Volvo needed a transmission that would fit under the hood with such a big engine, and the GM tranny fit. When I was shopping for the car in 1999, the salesmen would claim that the S80 had the same GM transmission that was in the Cadillac . . . but, I think it was actually the same as the one in the Corsica. Not sure what is under the hood of the recent models.

"Cars (and politics) make strange bedfellows."

qbrozen

Yeah, when i was looking at S80s, i was told by many people to buy an '02 or newer. Transmission was the #1 reason. But I've also heard alot of bad things about VWs, hence my question. But, of course, you made the choice that fit your experience best.

stickguy

as noted, the Charger with the 3.5, even with a sticker of 22K, got rave reviews recently. I just read it, so Autoweek sounds right (the latest issue).

You can even smoke the tires if you turn off the TC!

nippononly

"I'd rather see my retirement date get moved up a few years than get the instant, but fleeting satisfaction of a new car now."

Andre, Andre, how could you?

michaellno

My step-daughter got accepted to Colorado State University today, so now we gotta figure out a way to pay for that.

As mentioned earlier, she will probably not have a car .. it's only a 1.5-2 hour drive from where we live, so on weekends we'll either

a) go up and visit, or
b) go up and bring her home

This means the Focus will almost certainly be sold next summer. I'll be happy to get what I owe on it, to be honest. What's funny is that I have this vision of selling the Focus to my ex-wife in SoCal for my son to drive - he turned 16 this past summer but doesn't yet have his permit. Mom said his grades had to get better in order for him to get his permit.

The money that would go for the car payment will now be the step-daughter's monthly living allowance; if she feels she needs more, she can always pick up a part time job.

corvette

My mom has a 2002 S80 (non-turbo) with 34,000 miles. It's a decent long-distance cruiser and has plenty of room, but I expect more than that for $40k. Neither Mom nor Dad is smitten with it after owning it for three years.

The transmission occasionally shifts harshly even after a software update, and every few months, the electrical system will do something completely screwy, like refusing to open the fuel door, or the driver's door controls will cut out.

jlawrence01

I'm just too cheap, I guess! It's funny though, that 6 years ago I had no trouble paying over $20K out the door for that Intrepid, but today, even though I'm making more, have more saved up, and so on, but I balk at throwing around that kind of money for another new car.

Or your values have changes. It is part of maturing (g).

jlawrence01

As mentioned earlier, she will probably not have a car .. it's only a 1.5-2 hour drive from where we live, so on weekends we'll either

a) go up and visit, or
b) go up and bring her home

Don't forget that if you live within 2 hours of CSU that your daughter will be able to catch a ride from one of the hundreds of students who will be coming home that weekend.

In five years, I think that I had to use Greyhound about twice.

jlawrence01

Personally, I was getting complaints about the transmission on a weekly basis and was happy to send the vehicle off to auction ... where I lost a ton of money on the vehicle.

I would NOT pay nearly $40k for that vehicle which offers little more than an Impala at twice the price.

albell

Damn. When I was in college I had to walk miles in the snow, up hill, both ways, to get home. With a keg on my back.

dardson1

My first car was a yellow brand new Mustang 289 V8 given to me for high school graduation. Drove that longer than any car I've owned (4yrs). Got married in 1970 and it began (my cars and my wife's cars)
1970 VW (hers and new)
1971 Toyota Corona (hers and new)
1972 Datsun 510 wagon (mine and new)
1968 Buick Riveria (hers and her moms x)
1974 Datsun pickup (mine and new)
1975 Ford Mustang II (hers and new)
1976 Ford Pinto (mine and new)
1978 Fairmont Wagon(hers and new)
1980 Mazda GLC (hers and new)
1980 Mazda GLC (mine and new)(loved these)
1981 Mazda GLC (hers and new)
1982 Mazda GLC (mine and new)
1983 Datsun Stanza (hers and new)
1983 Datsun pickup King cab (mine and new)

at this point my wife said no more cheap cars! We were making more money so off I went.

1984 BMW 318i (hers, new, and +problems)
1986 Dodge Caravan (me and new)
1985 Mercedes (little one, used, hers)
1988 Dodge Caravan (me and new)
1989 Mercedes (hers and new)
1990 Honda Wagon (mine and new)
1991 Mercedes 300E (hers and new)
1992 Chevy S10 (hers, weird but she wanted
a pickup and new)
I took the 300E for a while
1992 Cadillac Deville (mine and used)
1993 Ford Explorer (hers and used)
1993 Cadillac Deville (mine and new)
1994 Jeep GC (hers and new)
1994 Chrysler LHS (mine and new)
1994 Chrysler LHS ( mine and new. . . they
gave me a new one as the first one
broke down 7 times the 1st 3 months)
1995 Volvo wagon (hers and used)
1996 Tahoe (me and new)
1998 Volvo wagon (hers and new)
1998 Expedition (mine and new)
2000 Toyota Solara (hers and new)
2001 Toyota Sienna (mine and new)
2001 Lexus ES300 (hers and new)
2002 Tahoe (mine and new)
2004 Lexus RX330 (hers and new)
2006 Tahoe (mine and new)

Notice we are slowing down. Truthfully, I've never put a pencil to this but it looks pretty dumb on paper. I have no other faults, and gotta admit I've gotten pretty good at trading cars.

for the record, I'm not rich (although I might be if I'd not traded so much), just a
chronic car buyer.

Can anyone match my stupid record? (It doesn't count if you're in the car business))

jlawrence01

When I was in college, one of the three brewery reps would deliver the 20-50 kegs. No need to worry about the car ...

nippononly

Holy cow! You liked the Mazda GLC enough to buy FOUR of them in two years?? It was a pretty cool little car in its time, but four, wow. :-)

I might be able to match your volume, but not in new cars, that is for sure. I mostly buy used - only way to satisfy the CCB urge without going broke, if you're me! :-P

gsemike

I love cars and car shopping but don't you get killed on the sales tax hit everytime you buy a new one? My last car bought in 2003 was $20,300 so the sales tax was between $1700 and $1800. Some newer models have caught my eye, but the trade in on the current car is too low leaving my only option to sell privately and absorb another sales tax hit on the entire purchase price on the new car. I just can't go for that on a whim.

I started driving in 1985 and here is my list to the best of my recollection:
1973 Dodge Charger
1974 Olds Cutlass Salon
1970 Chevy Chevelle (my first nice car - $3,700)
1972 Buick LeSabre (first in a series of winter cars while the Chevelle was off the road)
1971 Pontiac LeMans
1973 Dodge Dart
1976 Chevy Nova
1978 Olds Cutlass Supreme
1980 Dodge Aspen
1981 Buick Regal
1985 Buick Regal (got the engine from the 81 after an accident)
1989 Camaro RS (5.0 but far too unreliable by 50k)
1989 Honda Accord LXi (5 speed - driven to imports after too many GMs)
1989 Honda Civic (my first new car bought on lease)
2003 Nissan Altima 2.5S (I own this one and am driving automatics again)

I just moved back to the burbs from Queens and am getting a 1993 Buick LeSabre for a second/station car. It feels good to be driving another 10 year old domestic s-box after all these years. As you can see, I've really slowed down as the purchase price of the cars has climbed.

andre1969

Sales tax must be killer in New York! I'd have to dig up the paperwork to be sure, but I think the sales tax on my Intrepid, which ended up being around $22,400 out the door, was around $1,000. I vaguely rmember the paperwork stating the sales price was $19,986, including freight but not including tax, title, registration, and the extended warranty, etc. We pay 5% tax, so I think it came out to around $1K. Not as bad as $1700-1800, but geeze, that's about the price I've paid for many of my cars!

When you trade a car, don't they base the sales tax on the difference? For instance, if I pay $22K for a new Charger, and they give me $4K for my Intrepid, wouldn't I just pay the sales tax on the $18K difference, rather than the whole $22K?

Another nice thing about an old beater is that you don't care as much when something happens to it. While my Intrepid isn't a beater yet, at least it's at the point where it's paid for, and I'm not going to fret over every little dent, ding, and stone chip like I would have when it was new. I still remember the first dent I put on the car (my fault) and I was PISSED!! And I don't want to have to deal with that all over again with my hypothetical new Charger or Fusion.

gsemike

I think that the tax rate here in NY is about 8.5%. It definately is high. In that above list, there have been many cars where the purchase price was less than the tax on the last car. If memory serves, I think I paid $50 or $100 for the Nova.

If I traded my car in, I would just pay sales tax on the difference but with the lower value, I don't think that it's worth it. I looked at an Acura TSX not too seriously and they mentioned $9000 as a ballpark trade in. I think that the private retail would be around $12000 and dealer list my car as high as the 14s. Even though I'd save on the taxes, I don't think it's worth it.

Regarding the Buick, having a second car is a luxury. It will be nice to have but I'm only 3/4 mile from the train. We got the car for free and it only cost about $300 to insure it. I figured that we'll take it 6 months at a time and as soon as it become more trouble than it's worth, it's gone. The car has about 115k with the tranny rebuilt at 90k. I hope to get a couple of years out of it.

On a final note, the sales tax isn't the only tax that bring on the ouch-ful feeling. I'll rail about this on the Kiplinger message boards, but the property and income taxes are a burden as well.

gee35coupe

I don't fit em. Being Honda people, it was high on our list until I tried to sit in one.

We really can't have sports cars anyway. We've owned a couple already and I don't have the maturity to NOT drive it like a nut. Heck I already know that my Civic SI will redline at 132 in 5th, our Accord has a limiter at 125, and the Ody has one at 120 or so.

The SI with the suspension work satisfies my sports car urge.

woodyww

Several expensive Euro. cars have used GM auto trans. over the years, like some BMW's. (I always thought that auto trans., & A/C were 2 things that GM did well). I remember reading that the trans. in the S80 was some kind of convoluted, Rube Goldberg set-up because of the layout of the engine, etc.

andre1969

but I heard that the GM tranny used in BMWs was a unique one actually built to BMW specs, as opposed to being an existing domestic tranny that just got outsourced.

GM has supplied automatic trannies to other makers for ages, probably because GM invented the automatic tranny and pretty much got it right from the get-go. They used to sell them to Lincoln, and I think Nashes used GM automatics for awhile, too. And in the 60's, Rolls Royce used GM automatics.

woodyww

A few years ago, when I bought my used '98 Range Rover for $36K I paid $2100 in sales tax--not fun (& just the start of expenses for that vehicle, of course). I did get about 2/3 of the sales tax "back" when I traded the RR a year later for $28K--helped ease the pain a bit.

stickguy

actaully, I think the tranny sort of hangs off the side and gets run by a chain. The I6 is too long to fit transversly with the tranny on the end as is the norm.

Not really sure if that adds to the problems though, but it does explain the "Rube Goldberg" reference.

woodyww

That is probably true. The other maker of bmw auto trans. is ZF; I never can remember which is the more reliable. Not even sure which one I have in my E-39 5 series as they changed trans. I believe in the year my car was mfg.

*the GM tranny used in BMWs was a unique one actually built to BMW specs*

moosee

This is not a stupid record, be Proud that you have been able to afford, drive and talk about all of these different car lines, and all these models. I am really interested in that Toyota Corona I forgot what kind of engine was in it and was it a bigger car than the now corrola, camry? I think those late 80s early 90s, Benz's were good choices, and it looks like you favor the Toyota line of cars know and you can be almost considered an expert because you have owned and driven. Thanks for sharing.

michaellno

Sorry, forgot about the height thing - yeah, I can see that being a bit of a problem.

How in the world do you still have your license, if you know that the Civic will do 132, the Accord 125 and the Odyssey (!) 120MPH.

The fastest I've had my L300 to is ~100MPH, and that was on a deserted stretch of US 285 in the middle of Colorado - downhill and downwind, no less. Where in Georgia do you find the room to go that fast?

Andre - trust me, I get the same feelings regarding a new car. I've been a car nut for as long as I can remember, but I've never enjoyed the income to really feed my addiction. Now that I'm at a point in my life where I could concievably afford something fun, my mature side comes out and says stuff like you're hearing - retirement, etc.

Trying to balance the immediate gratification side of me (see Editor Karl's discourse on this topic and the purchase of his Ford GT) and the rational side can be a bit of a struggle.

lemmer

When I got my G35, I floored it on the entrance ramp to the interstate. I was doing around 110 mph by the end of the ramp and it was still accelerating really hard, and I had already started wondering what all that horsepower is good for on public roads. I don't think I've hit 90 mph since that first day.

We have an Odyssey, but I doubt I've ever hit 85 mph in it. I truly hate to drive that thing. It is a perfectly nice vehicle, but I hate it. The only reason I would take it up to 120 mph is to get out of it faster, but I only drive it if the whole family is with me, so I can't really do that.

toomanyfumes

Thought i'd try to recollect what i've owned. No laughing..

1970 AMC Gremlin. ($50 car!)
1974 AMC Gremlin. ($200 car. worse than the first one.)
1975 VW Rabbit. fun car,lots of problems.
1976 Cutlass Supreme. (Everyone had one, I got the lemon.)
1980 Toyota 4X4 pickup. (great truck until the frame rotted through.)
1976 Trans Am. 455, 4spd. great fun, except for the tickets.
1969 Buick Skylark Custom. Ultimate winter beater.
1989 Ford Ranger 4X4. good truck, drove it for 13 years
1985 Mustang. 4 cyl. wife's car.
1988 Mustang 4 cyl. wife's after the first one was totalled
1995 Ford Thunderbird V-8. still driving it.
1991 Olds Cutlass Supreme. wife's, good car.
2001 Mercury Villager. wife's van.

albell

Here's my list. I clearly have some catching up to do.

1967 Mustang (first car, mother and brother totalled it when I was in college)
1976 Olds Delmont 88 (Bought for $100, brother forgot to tell me it dumped its oil, seized)
1977 Plymouth Duster (Called it Hoyt 'cause it was like driving a knuckleball)
1981 Mazda GLC Sport – (my first new car. Gave it to my sister when I moved into NYC)
1980 Toyota Corolla – (bought used, a great little car. Someone’s probably still driving it)
1982 Camaro – (used, called it the Challenger ‘cause I was certain it was going to explode and kill me.)
1988 Chevy Cavalier – (new, piece o’ junk, traded it)
1991 Olds Bravada (new, ran it into the ground at 168k miles.)
1999 ML 320 – (new, one of MB’s problem children, traded it in)
2000 E320 Wagon – (new, loved it, traded it when I got company lease car)
2002 RX300 – (new, too much body roll for the Taconic parkway. Kids would puke just at the thought of the drive upstate.)
2004 Lincoln Aviator (new, nice but traded it in when I got the opportunity to deal for a new MB wagon
2004 BMW 325Cic – (new, leased. Still have. Tons o’ fun.)
2004 E320 Wagon – (new, still own but contemplating trading for an R Class)

anonymousposts

with the Ody. I loved to drive it. It felt like a car, albeit a big car. As much as I liked the Ody though I love the MDX. It's just nicer. I managed to get the MPG up to 23.5 on a 2 hour trip to Birmingham yesterday with 3 people in the car, the AC on, and 89 octane instead of 93. Now we wish we had gotten the Accord with NAV though.

Gee does drive toooooo fast. I have told him this numerous times. He is maturing slightly though and he wouldn't dare do anything that goofy with little Gee in tow so my plan is to work all of the time and make him ride around with Little Gee all the time.

guss

abell, well three cars in the last 2 years it looks like you are working on catching up. You need a 2006 to keep you even numbered model years going.

toomanyfumes, 2 Gremlins, are you kidding me. Bwa haa haa ha. Just kidding , we all started somewhere. I actually think they are pretty cool looking now.

woodyww

I'm still a bit jealous of your MDX, as I almost bought one a couple of times, & then got seduced by other vehicles. I do love my e-39 bmw 5series tho, and it's depreciated so much by now that I can't rationalize selling it for another car. It's awesome on road trips, altho I'd still like to compare it to an MDX......

PF_Flyer

http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee8d084

With Red Tag, and now Chrysler's "Miles of Freedom", are CCBers going to go into overdrive?

corvette

I would NOT pay nearly $40k for that vehicle which offers little more than an Impala at twice the price.

It was one of those "the devil I know" things, plus it was one of those cars where the test drive was nice, but long-term ownership leaves something to be desired. She cross-shopped the old model TL, the G35, MDX, ES330 and old RX300. Of those, the TL, G35, and MDX (sorry, Anon and Gee) did not have very nice interiors. The new TL seems to have rectified that problem, but now has way too much horsepower for a FWD car. No one in our immediate family will ever own a VW/Audi/Porsche product again due to very bad past experiences, most of which are documented here on Edmunds. Mom likes BMWs, but she also hates computers, and I don't think the momentary-contact turn signal and wiper controls on the new models (or mandatory iDrive on the 5-series) would suit her at all, so, I don't know what she'll get next. When I drove the G35, I thought to myself that it would be the perfect car for her if it had a nicer interior. If she keeps the S80 past four years, it will most likely get the Volvo extended warranty.

Compared to the Impala, the S80 is more refined in every way, but probably has less interior room. And, it has more snob appeal--if I were a member of a country club, I'd feel better about pulling up in it than an Impala (this is one of the reasons one of my friends is dying to buy a used 2001 Mercedes C-class with 90,000 miles).

Dad is completely hopeless with the Beetle; he will just keep sinking money into it for the time being. It has new glowplugs and wires now. He may quit the job that requires such a long commute, which makes him reluctant to buy a new fuel miser car.

anonymousposts

While I will admit that the materials used on the dash of the MDX could be a bit softer I am unable to find flaw with the fit and finish or with the overall use of materials. I have been in quite a few vehicles and the MDX competes favorably with cars in it's price range and even some with higher price tags.

I can't really see where this



is any worse than this

andre1969

but I prefer the Volvo to the Acura interior. I don't have a problem with either one, but I like the more linear, connected look of the Volvo. Like the way the little wood strip comes cleanly across, and how the shroud over the gauges carries over to the central HVAC ducts, or the nice, integrated sweep of the center console as it blends into the dash.

Color might have something to do wtih it, too. I like the lighter eggshell/ecru/whatever you want to call it of the Volvo better than the light beige/brown of the Acura.

qbrozen

In addition to andre's comments (which i wholeheartedly agree with) also notice how the center console in the volvo is angled toward the driver.

Everything seems to wrap around the driver, as opposed to the more minivan-like straight-up arrangement in the Acura.

gsemike

They both look very nice, but the wood in the Volvo looks richer and it also has a nice wood insert in the shifter knob and chrome trim around the guages. The downside in the Volvo is that it looks like the whatever those bottom controls are, they would be hard to get to when in Park.

phylp

Ooh, la, la!

Thanks for the luscious shot of that beautiful S80 interior. I did love my Volvo . . . despite the transmission replacement (under warranty) and other nagging mechanical issues. I would never buy another, but I enjoyed the one I had.

Yes, that's chronic.

cosanostra

I concur w/jlawrence about the car pooling. I was 6/7 hours away from home when I went to college and a couple of classmates used to hitch a ride with me part of the way home during breaks. It worked out well for them as they didn't have the hassle of a car on campus (parking, etc) and their parents didn't have to take time off to come get them. For me, it made the drive easier and they often split the cost of gas which was nice.

-c

anonymousposts

for design aside my point was that the quality of the interiors seems very similar.

andre1969

that might allow us CCBers to amass larger fleets. http://www.garagetown.com/ I have no idea how much one costs, though.

woodyww

I must admit, when I was MDX shopping a few years ago, I found the interior a bit......well, not spartan certainly, but not "plush". But some of the most unreliable vehicles have the most beautiful interiors--Jag, Range Rover, & judging by the comments, the S80....

Also, re qbrozens comment that *Everything seems to wrap around the driver* in the S80: that can be a great look; but can also seem confining after awhile.

gee35coupe

The optional wood steering wheel, shifter, and instrument panel. The one in that picture does look rather boring.

But I wouldn't buy a Volvo anyway. While I love the design of them(along with Saabs) I have heard/seen too many horror stories.

As for fast driving...Some interstates down here in the Southeast have a lot of running room when you aren't near population centers. I've set the cruise at 100 on several occasions. Lots of flat land with great visibility for sussing out the inforcement types.