Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

fintail

That was the one, in the diesel Jag

Did you see his run to Scotland in a diesel A8? It was awesome

That show needs to come back ASAP. I emailed Discovery about it, they didn't say when it would be back but they said it wasn't gone.

stickguy

Well, I thought I had my mind made up..

Drove a (used 2005) Legacy 5 speed today to see how I liked it. Was OK, but wasn't quite as exciting as I expected. Plus, it felt a little cramped in the front seat. Not as nice with the cloth as my friends leather lined Limited, plus the AT actually seemed to suit the car better. Too bad I will likely be getting a killer offer on the incoming unit I have my name attached to...

But, as often proven, it's not a good idea for me to buy anything because it is cheap, or that I have to rationalize my way into. My past is full of "it seemed like a good idea at the time" deals.

Big problem is (somebody needs to slap me, or give me a push) is I also stopped at the VW dealer (a little voice told me too). Sat in and played with (but did not drive) a new Jetta 2.0T 6 speed manual. Damn, this is a nice, loaded car. COmfy, and fit me like a glove. Plus, I know how nice the drivetrain is from testing an Audi A3.

The Jetta is very roomy for the driver, surprisingly good in the back seat, and has a huge trunk. Fun to drive, quick, good MPG, and top safety scores.

Oh, and its a (VW)*cough*

I should learn by now that I am happier with something that I like, even if it isn't considered to be the most reliable ride in the world. And it does have a 4 year BTB and 5 year powertrain warranty, so at least it wouldn't cost me anything for a while.

I have to go back and drive it, but it fells real good, and isn't rediculously expensive for what you get. And it has great seats.

Yeah, an Accord makes more sense, or maybe a TSX for a couple K more, but I really like the Jetta.

Oh, and I seem to be babbling. Better grab another Corona. (Beer, not old TOyota)

mark156

Stick.... I hate that these words are going to even pass my lips, but, time goes by so fast and before you know it, you are more mature that you would like to be!

I can't believe that I'm going to see 50 in 3 years. So, my point is, drive what makes you happy. That's exactly what I'm going to do when I trade my SUV in the next couple of weeks. I most likely will buy a 2006 Land Rover LR3 unless they think their vehicle is the "only" SUV available in the world. LOL!

Go for the VW if that's the one that makes you stay awake at night! :P

Mark

guss

Do you honestly think you will see the end of a 4 year 50k warranty. Even if you do you will have all the bugs worked out by then.

The only downside is you may have to become good friends with Otto the mechanic and the down time.I don't know if most VW dealers give out loaners or not. Something you might want to check into.

I had a Jetta 1.8t a few years back. My biggest complaint(aside from my wife refusing to learn how to drive a stick) was the small back seat. From what I have read the 2006 has taken care of that.

My favorites were the turbo and the cool blue dash lights.

woodyww

I owned a VW Passat once, for 6 mo., that was one of the 2 most trouble-prone vehicles I ever owned (the other being one of the infamous GM "exploding diesels" from the late '70's). The only thing that saved me on the Passat was that I bought a slightly used one & saved $6000, so I lost almost nothing when I traded it in.

Heck, I'd buy a used BMW 3-series in a heartbeat, before a new VW. If you want great seats, handling, etc. it's the "real deal". Just my 2 cents.

stickguy

have to see what the owners say. It does help that the powertrain is covered for 5/60 now, in addition to 4 year BTB.

Actually, if I buy something nice, I plan to keep it for a while. College starts in 3.5 years, which will but the kibash on new cars.

The VW dealer isn't too far away. No, zi don't want to become a regular, but if it has to go in once in a while, not a big deal. I actually have taken my Scion back more times than any other new car I ever had, except for out 1996 Voyager.

My problems usually come when I settle for less than I want, so I get the urge too soon.

I also have had good luck with other "problematic" cars. I had a '95 Mystique (bought in '98, kept 3 years) that gave me no trouble, other than a spark plug wire that went bad.

I could lease, or, if it turns out to be a dog, take the bath and move it.

It is a very nice comfy car though. And I would certainly accept a few foibles to have a car I loved driving, instead of hating every minute driving a boring appliance like a Camry (no offense intended to the happy Camry owner!)

The reviews on the 2.0T model seem to give it glowing praise at least. And it has nice seats.

I plan to shoot down and drive one tomorrow at lunch. It was too late last night to drive an unprepped car.

I expect that the $$ figure difference might be too big, but if they really want to drop the old shorts to make a year end deal, who am I to argue.

corvette

I've seen that one. Quite impressive that he did 800 miles without refueling. I haven't seen the ones on Discovery, just the UK versions that are an hour long without commercials.

Good to know it's not gone on Discovery either, my dad likes watching it when it's on.

corvette

How loaded was the one you sat in? I think a fully-equipped Jetta 2.0T is about $29,000. That's the same price as a TSX or A3, and within a stone's throw of a base TL, 3-series, or A4.

After dealing with every VW dealer in Kentucky except one, and having had two late-model VWs in my family, I have some beefs about their mechanical quality and dealer sales and service practices. It's too soon to have any meaningful information on the reliability of the fifth-generation Jetta--we'll have a better idea in a couple of years.

The new Jettas are not selling well, so you may be able to drive a hard bargain on one.

woodyww

I actually did that with the Passat I bought ("settled"), to save $$. With all the problems it had, it was the worst of both worlds. (And VW dealer service was the worst I've ever experienced, except for Chevy maybe).

I've also gotten myself so worked up by test driving so many different vehicles, that I "refused to settle", at all, & that's how I once convinced myself to buy a Range Rover, & ignore all the poor reliability ratings, to my chagrin. The RR was so gorgeous tho that it "was almost worth it".....but I took a fairly serious bath owning it for one year.

Are there any killer subsidized lease rates on VW's? Or could you save a lot by buying a 1-2 y.o. one? And to each his own, but I find it hard to believe that a VW is the only vehicle that could possibly "do it for you".....even tho it seems like it right now in the heat of car shopping......

good luck, woody

*My problems usually come when I settle for less than I want, so I get the urge too soon*

guss

I plan to keep it for a while.

Please wait while I etch this in stone to show you in late 06 or early 07.

I understand the college cost motivation though. I have 11 years to go for my first born and it already keeps me up at night.

She has 9 more years until she starts driving and is eyeing up my Mazda. With a little luck maybe it only will be 2 cars removed from by then.

corvette

"was almost worth it"

Yes, but that probably got the RR-bug out of your system. There's something to be said for that!

stickguy

we at least have some good dealers here. Plus I get to look at the Porsches while I am there.

The 2.0T as I would get it is just about 26K even MSRP, and 24K invoice, so I would expect to pay the 24 or less. So, at least a few grand below a TSX, and much less than a 3 series or a TL. An A3 would be 30K with my minimum requirements.

so, getting into the 23-24K range is a tough area to decide. Not real expensive (3 series, IS 250), but not real cheap (Civic, Mazda 3). But, a lot of car and features for the $$, if you overlook the VW badge.

I won't get a 30K+ car past the boss (or the moths in my wallet), and I can't really find anything that floats the boat in the high teens/low 20s (the Legacy was the best bet there).

A TSX is an idea. Maybe should try one again, but the 2.0T is a sweet engine. Lower cruising RPM, and a boat load of torque. No need to rev the dickens out of it like on the TSX.

The Jetta would probably be +/- 3 K less initially too.

Besides, lousy resale is another reason to hang onto it, and I can (and have) keep a car for 6+ years if I like it. The key is to get one I like to start with. And this one really will have to last me through the first college run (7 years at this point) ends, unless my son does me a favor and gets a good scholorship.

That, and if I buy another one now, my wife will hit me with a cast iron skillet if I even mention looking at another car!

Once I drive the Jetta I will have a better idea of what to do. The Legacy would be a good deal, but it's bad news if I start out with some "issues" that should/probably/hopefully get used to eventually...

woodyww

The RR "only" cost me about $10K (in one year!), between depreciation, & maintenence costs, to get the LR bug out of my system. My current bmw (in 4 years) has cost me a few hundred$$ in maintenence, & maybe, if I sold it now, say $15K in depreciation. What's that?--$4K a year roughly.

BTW--(you own a new 3 Series, is that right?)--I picked up my 6 y.o. 5-series today from the mechanic--cost me $218 to fix the central locking problem. (How many cars would cost less than that to fix a similar problem)? I was telling the owner I was thinking of selling the car. He looked at the mileage (24K miles), & said to keep it, unless I got some unbelieveable offer for it. I think he's right--I probably wouldn't get enough extra for the low miles to make it worth it to sell, if that makes sense.

I just have this terrible urge right now to buy another vehicle, & if I bought one that cost $25-$30K, I'd have to sell the E39. I could pay $10K for a car & keep mine--I wonder what a really nice, restored 2002 would cost? Or.......?

stickguy

go with a spare car. I know from experience that if you have a car you like, you will regret selling it just to get your Jones on. Better off getting an odd toy, and when the bloom is off the rose dump it, and you will still have the BMW.

corvette

Yes, I have a new 3-series. Plenty of warranty left before I have to get worried!

That's not a bad price for an electrical repair on a European car.

For the record, in five years and 92,000 miles, my old Jetta required 29 visits to the dealer. Seven were for routine maintenance. 22 were for repairs or to purchase parts so I could do the repairs myself. And that's not counting the parts I ordered online or jobs I did at home.

corvette

Glad you have a decent VW dealer nearby. I might still own one if the same were true for me!

woodyww

That sounds like really good advice. It would be different if my car had been unreliable, or got awful gas mileage or something.

I haven't felt right since I sold my BMW M6 (E-24). It was--totally impractical, needed $4K worth of suspension work, tires, etc. (at 15 years old), & in snow country you could only drive it 5 mo. a year anyway. And I determined to stick with one year-around-car after that.

The only way I'd sell the 5-series at this point is if I got such a killer deal on a mint low-mileage MDX that I couldn't pass it up. But finding a 2nd car for $12K or less that wouldn't eat up too much $$, & fulfill some kind of need (that I could rationalize) might make more sense (?)......older Volvo T5??

*go with a spare car*

corvette

*** older Volvo T5?? ***

The 850 T5-R was way ahead of its time. Ten years later, overpowered FWD cars are really in vogue... Loved seeing a boxy Volvo in yellow. In fact, I still like the styling of the 850.

anonymousposts

Buy what you like. Although maybe if you are going to buy a Jetta you should look at leasing a TL, IS250, etc. The VW is a nice car but I just can't get past the VW badge. Maybe you could get the leasing past the wife by saying that it would allow you to pocket the proceeds of the TC and then if the car is in an accident and totalled your loan will be paid off and you will not have lost any money. It doesn't seem that you put very many miles on your car.

Gee has decided (for now) to sell his Si. We have an appointment for Tuesday to get the factory wheels and springs put back on it and then we will take it to Carmax to see what they give us. I hate to see it go but we have a few concerns due to it's British heritage and at 40,000 miles the repairs will be on us and not Honda.

woodyww

** older Volvo T5?? **

I liked the way both the wagons, & sedans looked. That bright red was my fave color. My ex had a '95 850 base model (non turbo) that she ran up to well over 100K miles, & I think it only needed a new radiator, & a $1200 A/C repair in all those years. Nice car, seemed very solid, even to a bmw fan.

stickguy

I prefer not to have any other payments at this point. The wife would notice that, although in theory I could sell the tC, pay off the Odyssey with the proceeds, and lease something new for less per month than the ody costs. But, in 2/3 years, I would be back to square one, and don't want to end up on the permenant lease program.

The Jetta jsut feels good, but I do need to drive it. Now, if they threw out a hot year end lease deal, I owuld do it, and maybe buy it out at the end.

There was an ad yesterday for a true Zero down 39 month lease for (IIRC) $249/month, for a 5 speed value edition (I think, but the base car). If they had something comparable on a 2.0T(say $299/mo), that would be tempting.

Actually, one reason to lease is that I will be teaching my son to drive a stick on this car. Might as well return it when he is finished beating it up!

Anyway, I'm not that worried about owning a V Dub now. If it happens depends more on how good a deal they will cut me. If they throw out a number I can't resist, I'll do it.

I do seem to have cooled on the Legacy though. I like the leather much better than the cloth seats, but you can't get the non-turbo in a stick with leather. Plus, the car actually seems more suited to an AT for some reason.

woodyww

I'd say, if you're getting a brand new car w/o particularly good resale or reliability reputations (LR, Saab, VW), then lease. You "might be" glad to turn the car in in 39 mo.

Any other Subies that interest you? WRX? Or what about the new Honda Civic? Personally, I'd re-visit the Subaru line before commiting to a VW. The problem with buying a new car from a maker not known for great reliability, is that, no matter how nice the interior, or the leather, etc., after the 5th trip to the service dept. in 6 months, you won't care about any of that stuff, & will be at the Subaru dealer trying to trade it.

Just my own 2cents, FWIW.

stickguy

I think the fears sometimes get overblown. Not that many people really make 2 trips a month to the dealer, even with the "unreliable" brands. Now, If I got a complete lemon (from any maker), I would look to get out of it.

The only Sube that makes sense for me is a Legacy. I need to see the incoming SE (and drive it) to decide for sure, and see what the $$ are.

But, if the Jetta lease is heavily subsidised, I might go that way. basically make paymnets and look to buy it outright later on with the Money I get from my current car that can get stashed in the bank.

Besides, in 39 months, I'll know (hopefully) how much college is going to cost me!

I really better not explain any of this to the boss before I do it.

The other downside to leasing is I then have to sell my current car outright, without a trade in credit.

Actually, can you still trade in a car against a lease, and take the sales tax credit? It wouldn't be for the full amount, but still...

I was also considering a V50 since they have been advertising nice lease prices...

stickguy

Just can't win really. Buy a boring but reliable car, and trade early from boredom. Buy excitement, and trade early if it breaks all the time.

Good thing I like going to car dealers. Even the service department doesn't bother me!

With the Jetta (prior generation), it seems like a couple of defective parts (coils and window regulators) caused most of the problems. I wonder how many people wouldn't consider their Jetta's "junk" if those 2 areas, which hopefully have been fixed, were never a problem?

A couple of bad O2 sensors 5 years from now isn't too scary.

stickguy

Use one of our own (Andre) as an example (knocking wood first..)

He bought an Intrepid. One of those unreliable, nothing but dealer visit Chryslers. Best I can tell, in 5-6 years and 110K (twice what I would put on) he had only a couple of minor problems, at higher mileage.

But, you read some threads, and you would come to the conclusion that it's a miracle you can even get it home from the dealer without a breakdown.

Same for the guy that likes old Taurii and Oldsmobiles, and so on.

kyfdx

What's wrong with a WRX?

corvette

The VR6 model I owned was not affected by the coil problem, but the following items required replacement:

Window regulator
CV boots (the same one, twice)
Rear wheel bearing
Automatic transmission (bearing noise, didn't actually fail)
Trunk lamp switch
Sunvisors
Coolant reservoir
Spark plug wires
Intake manifold changeover valve (twice)
Spare tire bolt
Turn signal relay
Brake light switch
Seat belt
Battery
V-belt and tensioner
Dome lamp (blew a fuse that wasn't on the main fuse panel or on top of the battery, causing the car to be inoperable)

Those are just the ones I found from skimming the spreadsheet I kept on it.

*** Buy a boring but reliable car, and trade early from boredom. Buy excitement, and trade early if it breaks all the time. ***

I had the same delimma, and chose the second option this time. I'd have less qualms about doing so if I were in your position, with an upstanding/trustworthy dealer nearby.

My parents buy GMC trucks mainly because of their local Pontiac/GMC dealer, who has treated us very well over the years. If he sold VWs, I might still be driving one.

anonymousposts

Actually, can you still trade in a car against a lease, and take the sales tax credit? It wouldn't be for the full amount, but still...

You still get the tax credit even if you are trading in a leased vehicle. We just traded the Ody (leased) for the MDX and paid almost no sales on the MDX. The price of the MDX was $22000 and the trade value of the Ody was $21000 so we only paid taxed on $1000. Pretty good deal considering we paid no tax on the Ody to begin with.

stickguy

I would be trading in an owned car against a new lease. I know you pay sales tax on the payments, so I was wondering if the trade in credit would eliminate that tax, making the lease payments lower.

I still wouldn't put anything down on the lease, so I guess the dealer would have to cut a check back.

Sounds awfully convoluted..

anonymousposts

is a usage tax if I am not mistaken so trading your car would not lower this tax. Sales tax is only paid on the vehicle if you buy out the lease. If you trade it in the dealer can deduct what the tax would be for you to buy it thus making their payoff lower than what you would pay. If you think of it in terms of sales tax it actually benefits you to lease it. Depending on what the sales tax is in your state it could save you $1000+ on a $20,000 car. Since your car is paid for the dealer would have to cut you a check back for the value of the tC. If you do decide to lease it may pay to sell the car on your own or shop it around at local dealers (maybe Carmax if you have one close to you) and get the most money possible. Considering the popularity of the car and the low miles on yours it might be most beneficial to sell it private owner to a parent buying their child a Christmas present.

kyfdx

...on which state...

stickguy

not that being in Jersey ever seems to be a benefit tax wise...

I will ask about it when I go to the dealer next week.

VW has a good lease offer, but on the VE model. Not sure if it will translate.

woodyww

There's a rave review of the Volvo S40 T5 AWD in the 8/05 R&T. They loved it. Base price was around $28K. Seems like a very high quality car. They actually liked it better than the Audi A4 2.0 T, which is no slouch itself.

The edmunds reviews & owner ratings also seem very positive for the current-gen S40/V50. Has got me thinking.....

akangl

My Titan is fixing to look mighty out of place with Alaska plates in Texas. In 6 days I'm driving out, moving for a while.......its a long story, but anyway. No new cars in my future that's for sure. I have to leave Zippy behind.

mark156

Jolie, sorry to hear about the move if it's something that you don't want to do. Will you be changing your name to "txangl"?

Will you be pulling the camper while in route?

Have a safe trip and keep in touch here on Edmunds!

Mark

corvette

The V50 (non-turbo) I drove was nice, but felt a little underpowered. The Audi 2.0T is a more refined (but less powerful) engine than the Volvo turbo. The $28k base price on the Volvo does not include features like a sunroof or skid control that are standard on other cars in the same class.

The only really annoying thing on it was the electronic steering column lock. A lot of cars have these now, but this was the noisiest one I have enountered.

corvette

Hope everything is OK. Have a safe trip. The Titan will look right at home in Texas with all the pickups down there!

akangl

For now its what I need to do. Yes the travel trailer will be going along with me and the kids.

andre1969

hope everything works out for the best for ya. And remember you always have us! So keep us posted, and be well.

steine13

I dunno... it's cabin fever time in AK...

None of my business, but make sure you really, I mean really want to do this. It's crap for the kids, it's expensive, it'll IMPINGE ON YOUR CAR BUYING, and it's extremely little fun.

Plus, if you could stand the bum for a decade, maybe you could stand him a while longer...?

-Mathias
[18 years, 17 cars, 1 woman]

woodyww

I think you're right: Volvos always seem to need a Turbo to be any fun. And the engines never seem to be as refined as Audis or bmw's ("agricultural" sounding at times, but then I haven't driven a Volvo in 5 years).

The limited cargo capacity of the V50 could be a turn off too. I should drive one, it may convince me anew about keeping my E-39 wagon, which I'd bet is a notch up over the V50 in several areas.

woodyww

"Everything's" a long story; at least it is with me. At least you've got a travel trailer, your kids, the Titan, & it sounds like a place to go (just trying to look on the bright side, but then I don't know the situation--it's obviously stressful).

anyway, good luck, woody

anonymousposts

well, we hate the circumstances under which you are leaving but we wish you the best of luck. Will your Mom be staying in Alaska?

anonymousposts

He sold the Si. Got $11,000 from Carmax for a 2003 Si with 40,000 miles. Gee paid $15,400 for it in October 2003. Not bad.

michaellno

So, you're down to the MDX, the Accord and the LS400?

Gosh, what will you do with only three vehicles for the two of you?

Or is a replacement for the Si in the works?

kyfdx

That is a really good deal, considering you dropped it to a dealer....

I paid $29,500 for our '03 325i.. and sold it for $22,600 after 23 months and 30K more miles... I was pretty happy with that.. I think I could have got more out of it, but I called a friend of mine, and sold it in 15 minutes... so, a good deal for all...

Now.. you better go shopping!

anonymousposts

while we were waiting for them to return the Si to stock form and Gee wasn't impressed. We've explored most of our options and there isn't a car out there that matches 100% to what he wants right now. The IS250 was OK but the stick felt sloppy compared to our Accord and Gee hated the dash without the NAV. With the NAV the price is $35,000 but he still won't like the way the car shifts. He does not like the G35's interior even after the refresh. He doesn't want FWD so that rules out the TSX and the TL. At the end of the day we decided that the Accord is the best way to go. It drives great, has been reliable, has XM radio, and has one of the best manual trannys on the market.

So.... we are in the process of buying out the Accord lease and we will drive both it and the MDX until 100,000 miles. We will add some wheels to it, go to Florida and get the windows tinted, and maybe drop it a bit depending on how it looks with the wheels. In the meantime, we will still jump on any outstanding deals that come along.

mark156

Just curious Anony... does it make sense to buy out the Accord lease now? Is it cheaper to do it now or why not just wait until the lease is up? I was thinking maybe then you could renegotiate a better deal.

I've only leased once and that was a 1987 Maxima... so, it's been a while.

-------

I can't believe I almost forgot... MY CCBA membership is renewed for at least another year because I bought a new SUV yesterday!

I purchased a 2006 Land Rover LR3 HSE, Java Black Pearlescent, Alpaca Beige leather, Cold climate pkg, Heavy Duty pkg. I added a "real" wood grain dash and thick black rubber floor mats for all three rows. It also has voice activated radio and Navigation.

I've got 30 miles on it now and it is an amazingly awesome vehicle!

Mark

anonymousposts

We looked at it this way.

The residual on the Accord is $13,800 X 5% sales tax had we bought it out at the end of the lease. That's $14,400. Financed for 2 years @ 3.4% that's $14,904 + $6480 in remaining lease payments. That's $21,384. Honda does not negotiate lease residuals so we would pay the $13800 at the end regardless.

If we buy out the Accord right now the payoff is $19,700. Financed for 48 months @ 5% we will end up paying $21,744. Not that much of a difference. Might as well buy it now and stop worrying about the mileage. We will pay it off before 48 months so the totals will be even closer. Also, in 18 months our payoff will be $12,800 vs. a $13,800 residual + tax if we continue the lease.

anonymousposts