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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

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Comments

  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,280
    He does not like the G35's interior even after the refresh.

    Ditto.

    ...we will drive both it and the MDX until 100,000 miles.

    Are we taking bets on that? :D
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,342
    I'll put $100 on the under.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    probably won't make it to 100k but it COULD happen. Just like the Colts COULD go undefeated. I sure hope they do although the odds are against them.
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    Keeping the MDX, the Accord and the LS400 sounds like a terrific idea to me. I have a feeling that in trying to significantly improve on your 6sp 6cyl Accord--with a new $35K Japanese car--you'd be getting into the Law of Diminishing Returns, bigtime.

    (Personally, I think an E46 3-series, or current-gen 3-series, might "do it" for you & Gee based on my reading of your posts. Some people think none of the competing Japanese cars really = it overall).

    Whoops, I meant to just say what a good idea keeping your Accord sounds like......my brain has bmw (& other expensive Euro. cars) lust.....(they should have a pill out to cure that by now). At least I've kicked the Range Rover habit.....I swear.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,280
    At least I've kicked the Range Rover habit.....I swear.

    That's one of those cars that I'd like to have someday, but if they lived up to their reputations, I would probably own or lease only one of them in my lifetime. Same goes for Saab and Jaguar, and I don't think I would own the three successively.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Our Accord is a 4 cylinder/5-speed manual. Which makes it even more surprising that we can't find anything out there to spend our $$$ on. I will stand behind my statement that the Accord is a raging bargain for what you get.

    As for the 3-series, Gee isn't very comfortable in the last generation. If we came across an outstanding deal on one we might be tempted but it would have to be CHEAP. Gee doesn't like the interior of the current 3-series so that's a no.

    Here is his list of requirements...

    RWD/AWD
    Manual transmission
    XM Radio
    NAV
    Nice interior
    Preferably Japanese

    Strange thing is, with all of that said, we would happily be driving a new Civic EX/Si with NAV if only the parking brake didn't jab into his leg.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,412
    I love the last gen 3 and had one in the back of my mind for a second car but when are they going to get cheaper? Even on Ebay, 2000 325s are closing at over $20,000.

    I've got the 03 Altima that is now my wife's and I'm driving a 93 LeSabre until the Alt is paid for. The Alt will be paid for in about a year and a half and should have about 50k on it. As new home owners, two car notes is out of the question.

    When I buy something it will serve as second car duty and I want something that I will get some economical enjoyment out of. So, in 8/07 how much will be 75k 2000 328 be going for? I'm doing my time with the LeSabre. I even changed the battery last night in 29 degree weather. I'll deserve it ;-)
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    ...and she tells me she is trying to sell or trade her '04 Yukon Denali for a Volvo V70 station wagon.

    The problem? She's massively buried in the Yukon.

    The Volvo dealer originally offered $27K as a trade value ... sis and BIL owe $36K.

    This, mind you, is for an '04 V70 2.5T with 26,000 miles and an asking price of $26K.

    Volvo dealer has since raised their bid for the Denali to $31K. Sis still says no, and thinks she can sell it for $35K privately.

    I took a quick look at Edmunds TMV ... if she can get $31K in trade, she should take it and run, as that's the private party selling value. Retail is $35K, which I believe she will never see.

    Methinks that my sister will be driving the Denali for some time to come. She tells me she gets 12-13MPG and it costs her $55 to fill it up ... that is down from a max of $75 a month or two ago.

    She doesn't drive too much and is a perfect candidate for a lease - she works from home, her kids' school is just down the block (10 minute walk) and most of her shopping needs are very close by as well.
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    See the recent post on the RRTIV forum: Terry valued a 2003 BMW 325xi Miles: 32,000 at around $22K (for trade-in, I think). Sounds like a nice one.

    I could use a spare xi today, with a foot of snow. As usual, I still don't have my snow tires on my 5-Series yet. :-( On the bright side, my sno-blower started yesterday, & most bmw's have such low ground clearance they wouldn't make it thru deep stuff regardless of tires, or AWD. If only the X5 was more reliable.....
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    This is just an amateur opinion, as I don't know what the 2 cars are worth. But--if the used Volvo price is fair, I'd say "do it". Huge SUV's that get 12-13MPG are like dinosaurs now, & that offer may be the best one she ever gets. I hate to think of the future depreciation on the Denali.....
  • albellalbell Member Posts: 185
    I agree. When I traded my Lincoln Aviator in the Fall of 04, I felt extremely fortunate to get out only a couple of grand upside down. The value of that truck has continued to crater since then.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Especially with the new generation restyled/redesigned Yukon/Suburbans on the horizon, once they hit the showrooms, her Yukon will take an even bigger dip.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    In my opinion, it would be crazy for your sister to trade her Denali for such a huge loss. If she doesn't drive very much (school close, works from home, etc) it would take years to recoup the savings in gas when making such an "upside down" trade.

    I say she should keep driving the Denali, be light on the pedal and combine her shopping trips. Getting out of a vehicle just for the gas mileage is crazy to me. Just altering her habits will save a lot more than throwing thousands and thousands of dollars down the drain with a trade. :sick:

    I wish her luck and she should just enjoy the Denali, they are nice vehicles.

    Mark :)
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    Today's the day. Me, the kids, and the Titan are hitting the road.......in tow we have a Uhaul trailer, opted to leave the travel trailer behind due to bad roads and my fear of towing it. I won't have internet access on the road so I'll post when I get to Texas in about a week or so. Nobody buy any new cars until I get back online, I don't want to miss anything!!!!
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,280
    Be safe!
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Jolie, as corvette mentioned, be safe and we will be looking forward to hearing how your trip went. Hope the kids behave! :P

    Mark :)
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I agree with you ... since my sister works at home (in home child care) and all her amenities are so close, I understand your financial argument.

    I totally forgot about the new GM full-sized SUVs being released next year and the effect it will have on the current generation values - another valid point.

    What I find funny (in a sad sort of way) is that she really didn't want the Denali in the first place. She had a perfectly serviceable Odyssey; I suspect that my BIL, being the "image" kind of guy that he is, didn't like driving a minivan (he also traded out of a G35 lease for a lease on a 530i).

    Now they are stuck with a $750/mo note for the Denali, the 12-13 MPG that they get.

    Here's my sister's logic (I think):

    Current Denali payment: $750
    new payment (she hopes): $400-500
    Monthly savings: $250-350

    Gas (per month) - sis says she only fills up every other week @ $55 per tank: $110
    Not sure what V70 gets for gas mileage, but she may be able to get away with 1 1/2 tanks of gas per month, and we'll estimate $35 per tank: $50-55
    Monthly savings: $55-60

    So, she would be saving approximately $300-400 per month.

    If, and it's a big if, she can get, let's say, $32K for the Denali ($4K upside down), she's looking at 10-13 months to make up the difference.

    Or is my math all wrong?

    Don't know about insurance costs.
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    I'm not smart enough to figure out these deals where the owner is upside down on their current vehicle, & to boot is financing the new one. And I don't base my opinion to sell the Denali just on the fuel cost--more on how that may affect the resale value later on--& what if gas prices go up more?

    I don't see a downside to this--if--she's getting a great price for the SUV, & not getting ripped on the Volvo or the financing for it. And whether or not someone is "upside down", I'm not sure that means they shouldn't sell the vehicle--that's a "sunk cost", right? i.e., they're upside down even if they keep it. (They've already lost that amount, whatever they do, right)?

    And paying $55 to fill up, you better really like the vehicle, or it does get depressing......whatever the logic. You could also ask Terry on the RWTIV board--I'm sure he could analyze the whole situation if you provided all the info.....And FWIW, I can't even imagine a $750 car payment.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,280
    I remember when the full-size GM trucks got a more user-friendly interior back in 1995, a fully loaded 4x4 Suburban with leather seats was around $36,000. At that price, it cost little more than an entry level luxury car. Now, if you add a sunroof and nav system, a Yukon XL is around $50k, the Denali is $56k, and the Escalade is $64-ish. Any of those is a good bit more than an entry-level luxury car. I think the full-size GM trucks are better bought used.

    One question remains: Is GM mad? $64k is M-class money, and that even includes the AMG sport package and Keyless Go. You could also have a Cayenne. Also, the Japanese offerings have the same features but much lower sticker prices. It's no wonder GM has to offer so many incentives to move these things.
  • asafonovasafonov Member Posts: 401
    Now, if you add a sunroof and nav system, a Yukon XL is around $50k, the Denali is $56k, and the Escalade is $64-ish. Any of those is a good bit more than an entry-level luxury car. I think the full-size GM trucks are better bought used.

    This does address another N&V thread's question, what would it take consumers to buy American vehicles again (I should add - buy American vehicles NEW.)

    One question remains: Is GM mad? $64k is M-class money, and that even includes the AMG sport package and Keyless Go. You could also have a Cayenne. Also, the Japanese offerings have the same features but much lower sticker prices. It's no wonder GM has to offer so many incentives to move these things.

    Are these MSRPs, TMVs, or other prices? I would speculate the actual transaction prices on these vehicles are lower than mentioned above.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,280
    MSRP--I realize the actual transaction prices are probably closer to the lower prices of the less-expensive Japanese models. It appears they have raised the prices of the vehicles to compensate for adding incentives to them.
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    Outside of the fact that the Escalade is popular with movie stars & "gangstas" now, (real, or pseudo), I agree. The prices you're mentioning, $50-$60K, are in Lexus territory. What is a sane person gonna buy, a Lexus, or a GM for the same $$? (Unless you need the towing capacity of a big American SUV). Or, just buy a new MDX Touring for less, around $39K probably.

    GM's bonds now are rated at "Junk" status, & there is increasing talk on wall st. that they "could" go bankrupt.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,280
    ...the Escalade is popular with movie stars & "gangstas" now, (real, or pseudo)...

    The key word being "now." I'm not Miss Cleo, but it is inevitable that its popularity will wane.

    ...they "could" go bankrupt.

    I can't believe they were thinking of selling their financing arm--the only part of the company that makes money. Once they did that, the clock would begin ticking until they ran out of cash. The contrary solution I propose is that only GMAC remains a part of GM, and the auto manufacturing divisions are sold, with or without splitting them up. Let whomever buys them clean up the mess they're in.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    The new Escalade was designed with input from athletes and rap stars. It will be popular - and be a very aspirational vehicle for many.

    GM is contemplating getting rid of at least part of GMAC primarily because GM's poor credit rating is beginning to make it difficult for GMAC to get the credit they need to issue the loans that they do. That's the sole reason why they're considering selling it - if GMAC can't offer competitive finance rates, it will affect how GM can move the metal...

    But, this isn't the proper place to discuss GM's future... I'm sure there are a bunch of discussion threads in the News & View section, as long as the Hosts don't close them...
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    now that I am down to one vehicle for the first time in two decades (how did that happen?! :confuse: ) I am in the market for a beater, something I can fix up a bit.

    Can't decide if I should go my usual route (15 year old Honda) or try something different. The search begins...

    :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Different is good. How about a British sports car?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,342
    traded numbers at the dealer yesterday. But, we seem to have a difference of opinion on the value of my current ride, so I don't think an Xmas present for myself is going to happen, but you never know.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,342
    I am actually starting to think that looking at older, cheaper stuff is a good idea.. ALways ends badly though. Maybe in 1.5 years when my son gets his permit, I can get a beater to teach him on, and ultimately turn it over to him.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Oh Gawd. Different is good, but not THAT different! :-)

    I want a car that will actually run as I fix it up. As much as I love the "project" part, I still want to be able to drive it.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Ok, 240Z or RX-7.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    NOW you're talking. :-)

    Have had both in my life, the 240 was a LOT less work to keep going once I got it fixed up.

    Thing is, if I want it to be street-legal, it has to pass the CA smog test, which will probably keep me from buying anything carbureted. That leaves me the awfully temperamental gen-II RX-7s or the 300ZX on up, which were too big and overstyled IMO. I guess there's always the 280Z, pretty hard to find though. Saw one a few weeks back, the guy wanted $9 grand for a car with rust in lots of places and "brand new" interior and engine - have no idea what that meant but the interior was a bit ratty too, so only certain parts must have been new. I couldn't help thinking "is this guy high or what?".

    I think I might go a bit newer this time than in the past, like making the 1990 MY the oldest car I will buy.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Miata
    Final Prelude
    Mustang?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Now we're talking even more! :-)

    Hate ragtops, so Miata is out. But I had actually considered a Mustang, which would be my first if I went that route. It would have to be a GT - if I were getting a V-6 I would probably just go buy an older Celica. But yes, Mustang is in the game.

    And of course Prelude is always a good choice. The 4WS ones from the early 90s are OUT, but the new style from (1992?) on is very much in consideration.

    I would love one of the final Preludes (the hard square design) but the price is going to be too high for me to have as a project car. I was kinda thinking of something in the $4-8K range, preferably closer to $4K.

    Wouldn't mind picking up one of the first Impreza 2.2s, but they are HARD to find - they just didn't sell enough of them.

    Or a Tercel "Black Hawk" from the mid-90s, but that is just a passing thought probably.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    What's a Tercel "Black Hawk"? What about a Sentra SE-R? A 2nd generation Civic Si?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    just a trim package on a Tercel CE coupe, complete with alloys and power package, and those oh-so-special "Black Hawk" decals on both sides. They might have had slightly larger tires than the standard car, I forget. They came in black only. But there was also a "white hawk" edition, which came in (you guessed it) white. Cute cars, but no power or handling upgrades of any substance. I like the alloys.

    Like the SIs of course, but don't want to pay sky-high insurance rates for a project car. I don't do Nissans usually. The 90s Sentras had lots of problems. Now, an older 240SX might be a thought...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Audi has a sweet 24 month lease deal on an A4.

    Jeep has a good one on the GC. I am not necessarily the biggest fan of these, but like them enough to be tempted by the low lease.

    Combine the above two, and maybe you'll like the 24 month lease of the Saab 9-3 Sport Combi.

    Does anyone else constantly scan the subsidized short term leases?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,342
    I like to look at those. SOme day one of them will actually be for a car I want.

    I always look at them though as an alternative finance method to a purchse, and not too many of them pass that test. That is, payments now, and buy it later instead of th eother ay around. Sure, the subsidized rate/cap cost reduction is nice, but the large bank fees wipe out a big chunk of the savings.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I get tempted by the idea of a lease, since I'd probably be putting fairly low miles on the car these days. But then, I just don't know...they kinda confuse me and scare me.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,342
    like crack for people that can't control their impulses to get out of a perfectly good slightly used car, just so they can have the next big thing that catches their eye.

    But, at least for most people, it keeps them in a car for the lease term (usuaully 3 years), but the real sickos will still trade in a leased car, cost be damned.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I scan the lease deals too. These days, there's hardly a one that wouldn't make more sense as a 5-year purchase, given the down and monthly payments. That may change now as financing rates head back up from the rock-bottom rates of the last few years.

    Now of course, I am mainly looking at Japanese cars there. Given the terrible depreciation of the American models and the general air of long-term unreliability of the German models, those might be better as leases. In fact, I can't think of any German model I would buy, given all the long-term problems they have. I would be sure to lease if I picked one of those up.

    Of course, the very best VW can do for leases right now still isn't that great. A Jetta VE for $250/month plus tax, and I still have to give them $1000 or more to drive the car away? There are MANY more expensive cars with similar terms.

    Now If Lexus put out a promo lease on base IS250s, I wouldn't wait even one minute...

    :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I have a wife that gets a new car every two years, so it can work for me. I have only done one lease - our current Odyssey, which will be turned in and replaced sometime in the next few months.

    One big thing for me is that in Alabama you only pay tax on the payment, not the purchase price.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,565
    Those good lease deals only make sense, if you actually want/need to lease... Once you buy at the end of the lease, you are giving up whatever advantage made it a good deal in the first place..

    If the lease payment is low, because the residual is high, then you certainly don't want to buy it...

    If the payment is low, because the money factor (interest rate) is low, then you lose that low interest rate, once you buy..

    Either way, the low lease deals are only good, if you plan on walking away at the end of the lease...

    regards,
    kyfdx
    Lease (crack) addict

    Edmunds Price Checker
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  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Mr. King of BMW Leases...

    What do think of that 24 month deal on the X3?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,565
    It's comparable to the 36 month lease.. which is pretty good for a 24 month lease...

    But, the best 24 month deal is on the 525i...

    They had great deals on '05 convertibles last month.. but, I don't know if those are still in effect (36 month lease).

    regards,
    kyfdx
    (not the king.. just a court jester)

    Edmunds Price Checker
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    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Or a Tercel "Black Hawk" from the mid-90s, but that is just a passing thought probably.

    You could pick up that Tercel and do a Starlet turbo swap.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    Those good lease deals only make sense, if you actually want/need to lease... Once you buy at the end of the lease, you are giving up whatever advantage made it a good deal in the first place..

    I'm not sure I agree (but i could be wrong). Let's say you want to buy it. But, at the time, money factor is a great deal lower than a 5-year note rate. So you lease. Then, at the end of the 3 years, you finance the remainder for 2 years, again, at a very low rate (providing rates in general haven't gone through the roof) because its only a 2-year note.

    You could feasibly save on interest overall by doing this, no?

    Granted, you are taking a chance that interest rates could be higher at the end of your lease than they were when you started ... but for the sake of an argument, let's say they are very similar at the beginning of the lease and the end.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,342
    I know I shouldn't do this, but what is the 24 month lease deal on a 525i anyway?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    oh, you just had to ask, didn't you? ;)

    fortunately, i don't think a 525 would be fast enough for me, so that should keep me away from a good deal.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,342
    plenty fast enough for me. I almost got a 2001 new, and that was when it really had a 2.5l engine.

    A 530 or 54x would just get me into too much trouble anyway.

    Wonder if the teaser lease includes a stick shift? Have they even imported any into the US yet with a manual?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    What are the terms for the "sweet 24 month lease deal on an A4"? And what options do you get? I always wanted an Audi, but was put off by the reliability rep., & cost of repairs.

    But I test-drove a new A4 Quattro about 3-4 years ago (I think that would be the previous gen., now, right?). 1.8 Turbo, stick, spt pckg, great car. I mean, I had a blast driving it. Very cool. Possibly as fun to drive as a 3-series (at least, in the same ball park), + the AWD. If you could get great lease terms on a wagon ("Avant"), I'd start thinking.

    But then, the "storys" about Audis always bring me down to earth.....it might be worth it to lease tho.
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