Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen

T8 0-60 = 5 secs flat. That is impressive.

breld

And, price was not a driving factor in the decision, but it doesn't hurt that the Volvo is as much as $8-10k cheaper equipped apples to apples. That's real world pricing, where the Volvo is discounted heavily, whereas the Audi and Land Rover don't seem to be.

breld

qbrozen said:

T8 0-60 = 5 secs flat. That is impressive.

Well, it's quite the price premium on the T8, and it has a smaller tank, so the overall range is quite a bit less than the T6.

But you're right, that is impressive. And we have the Level 2 charger installed in the garage. Maybe worth a test drive before finalizing?

Dang it, @qbrozen!

breld

Here are a couple screenshots of the one I’m interested in.  

I love this maroon brown interior newly available in the 2018.  And those wheels are also a new option - 21"!  But honestly wouldn't have known it on the test drive.  

qbrozen

FYI, on the used side, a 2017 T8 Inscription is only worth about $6k more than a 2017 T6 Inscription.

breld

So, definitely don't buy a brand new T8, huh?

Although perhaps there are tax rebates that offset that - I have to check.

breld

Alright - looks like $5,000 federal rebate on the T8 and another $5,000 from Colorado.

I still don't like the overall range on the smaller gas tank. But dang it - I'd by lying if you don't have me at least considering it.

Michaell

breld said:

So, definitely don't buy a brand new T8, huh?

Although perhaps there are tax rebates that offset that - I have to check.

Uh, you haven't mentioned the best part of the T6 ... the chip! The chip!

breld

C&D reviewed the T8 pretty poorly when it came out - it was indeed quicker in acceleration, but they didn't like what the added weight did, and criticized the relatively poor overall mileage. It's a bit weird - it's RWD in electric mode, which lasts about 10 miles, then acts as FWD unless you lock it into AWD by engaging the rear motor 100% of the time. "Overly complex" is what C&D said.

They also said this, which sort of cracks me up: And the T8 did deliver better acceleration, hustling to 60 mph in 5.3 seconds compared with six seconds flat in the T6.

Six seconds flat in the T6? And there's a "Polestar" chip upgrade available from the dealer.

stickguy

ooo, my favorite color combo. Nice. Love those seats too.

I actually endorse your plan. I don't know how you keep track of that many cars, especially since you can't park them all at home.

your end goal is what i would like too. A nice DD for me and one for the wife (whatever we each prefer), and a 3rd car toy of some sort. I just need to sell this house and downsize/relo before I can get one!

Mr_Shiftright

I dunno...the T8 doesn't sound like the way to go--the range in EV mode is pretty minimal, and I'm sure less so with AC or heat running full blast. And all that complexity! Supercharger, turbocharger, engine driving the front wheels, motors driving the back wheels. Phew! AND 2. 5 tons.

qbrozen

breld said:

C&D reviewed the T8 pretty poorly when it came out - it was indeed quicker in acceleration, but they didn't like what the added weight did, and criticized the relatively poor overall mileage. It's a bit weird - it's RWD in electric mode, which lasts about 10 miles, then acts as FWD unless you lock it into AWD by engaging the rear motor 100% of the time. "Overly complex" is what C&D said.

They also said this, which sort of cracks me up: And the T8 did deliver better acceleration, hustling to 60 mph in 5.3 seconds compared with six seconds flat in the T6.

Six seconds flat in the T6? And there's a "Polestar" chip upgrade available from the dealer.

interesting. MT has them at 5.0 and 6.2, respectively.

breld

stickguy said:

ooo, my favorite color combo. Nice. Love those seats too.

I actually endorse your plan. I don't know how you keep track of that many cars, especially since you can't park them all at home.

your end goal is what i would like too. A nice DD for me and one for the wife (whatever we each prefer), and a 3rd car toy of some sort. I just need to sell this house and downsize/relo before I can get one!

Thanks @stickguy. My wife reminds me that there will indeed come a time when a "fun" car will be much more usable and make sense. I am certainly passionate about something like a Miata or m235 or whatever, and keep trying to fit one in, but as you all can relate to, with kids in school and sports, a nice SUV simply fits the bill.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

I dunno...the T8 doesn't sound like the way to go--the range in EV mode is pretty minimal, and I'm sure less so with AC or heat running full blast. And all that complexity! Supercharger, turbocharger, engine driving the front wheels, motors driving the back wheels. Phew! AND 2. 5 tons.

BUUUTTT... 400hp/470tq.

qbrozen

For the money we're talking, I'd likely wind up with a Cayenne, personally.

breld

Well, yeah. That would be nice. I could get away without the 3rd row, but I still like having it for the occasional use. There was a white Cayenne at the Audi dealer yesterday that caught my eye.

stickguy

Q, sounds like a classic case of #s on paper not translating to real world benefit. Not for that difference in price.

I know that some here think it is slug territory, but low-mid 6 seconds is more than enough for me. That is what both my current cars are rated for, and they are more than fast enough for anything I will use them for.

stickguy

Oh, in your case (unlike mine, where we are basically empty nesters, since my baby graduates College in 2 months!), I would say keep the 3rd row in whatever you get since you will need it on occasion, and don't have another option in the fleet to serve the purpose.

jpp75

As @breld and @Michaell have posted we spent part of the morning at the Volvo dealer. Lucky for me it's only a few blocks from where I live so I was able to walk over and meet them.

The XC90 is a great vehicle and overall a great value. @Michaell and @breld have summed it up, but the XC90 is my first choice out of the three. Granted I haven't been in a new Q7, but having driven the Discovery I do get the appeal but the XC90 just seems like the better car all around. And those seats!

While the T8 looks great on paper I'd have a hard time justifying any extra expense for it, the T6 we rode in today was great and with the Polestar tune I 'm sure it would be even better. The 4 cyl is a different experience from the V8 of the Durango and the supercharged V6 of the Q7, but in this case different isn't bad.

As I mentioned to @Michaell and @breld there's not a "bad" choice here but my vote goes to the XC90 with the Polestar tune. The pictures @breld posted don't do the colors justice, Volvo has done a great job on both the exterior and interior color options.

Next up is the V90 Cross Country in a brown similar to my Touareg for Mrs @breld.

jpp75

Although I have to mention that @breld and his wife drove her Polestar wagon down today and the sales team at the dealership couldn't get enough of it. So that one is a keeper for sure.

qbrozen

Keeper? Breld? Hahahaha

ab348

fintail said:

QX30 has some of the most egregious DLO fail on the market, not sure I could live with this:



It's the fakiest fake window that ever windowed. Please stop. Not a fan of this design language, or this trend.

What does DLO stand for?

fintail

DLO is daylight opening, the glass on the side of the car. DLO fail is a fake window, usually a black "cheater panel" made of plastic, in the A or C pillar. Often used to either spice up a dull design, or because the front and rear glass angle is too aggressive.

stickguy

here is a bit of a unicorn. The rare BMW tightwad special! A RWD, stick shift, manual trans 3 series sedan. Can't be too many of these floating around.

actually, for the price, might be able to interest me in it (well, probably need to knock it down some in price). I do like the manual and stick aspect of it. Never tried the manual seats, but if you can tilt the front cushion up, fine by me!

http://www.jimwynnvw.com/VehicleDetails/used-2011-BMW-328i-Sedan-Norristown-PA/3151330453

28firefighter

stickguy said:

here is a bit of a unicorn. The rare BMW tightwad special! A RWD, stick shift, manual trans 3 series sedan. Can't be too many of these floating around. actually, for the price, might be able to interest me in it (well, probably need to knock it down some in price). I do like the manual and stick aspect of it. Never tried the manual seats, but if you can tilt the front cushion up, fine by me! http://www.jimwynnvw.com/VehicleDetails/used-2011-BMW-328i-Sedan-Norristown-PA/3151330453

Fun fact. That’s the Volvo dealer my family got our first Volvo station wagon from. 

stickguy

never been there, but from poking around. looks like their used prices are on the low side for dealers. I would make a trip over to save some $$

qbrozen

stickguy said:

here is a bit of a unicorn. The rare BMW tightwad special! A RWD, stick shift, manual trans 3 series sedan. Can't be too many of these floating around. actually, for the price, might be able to interest me in it (well, probably need to knock it down some in price). I do like the manual and stick aspect of it. Never tried the manual seats, but if you can tilt the front cushion up, fine by me! http://www.jimwynnvw.com/VehicleDetails/used-2011-BMW-328i-Sedan-Norristown-PA/3151330453

About $3500 markup there

stickguy

I found a private sale of the same basic car in blue, with 71K miles, asking $8,995. Much better deal, without the safety net of working with a reputable dealer.

Mr_Shiftright

I found one near me with only 29,000 miles on it, same white, same manual transmission, but pricier of course.

corvette

Girl I'm hanging out with recently bought a used first-gen Volvo XC90. Problem: I saw it today and realized it's a T6. I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to silently hope she trades it before the notoriously bad automatic transmission grenades. It has 110k, so I'm guessing it has to be on its second or third transmission.

28firefighter

corvette said:

Girl I'm hanging out with recently bought a used first-gen Volvo XC90. Problem: I saw it today and realized it's a T6. I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to silently hope she trades it before the notoriously bad automatic transmission grenades. It has 110k, so I'm guessing it has to be on its second or third transmission.

Oy. A friend of our family had one of those growing up.  Grenaded twice during the 36 month lease. 

breld

So, at least for now, I'm gonna hold off a little bit on the new SUV decision.

The only urgency to it is that beautiful Denim Blue one with the Maroon Brown interior available. But, if that sells, I can certainly be happy with another color combo.

After giving it some thought, I found the option of waiting to be compelling for the following reasons:

• 2019 models are right around the corner. Being the fourth model year, I suspect there may be a mid-cycle refresh, and I'd hate to buy a brand new 2018 with a potential refresh so imminent. If I were buying a used one, that'd be a little different, but if I'm considering going new, may as well wait another month.
  
• Rebates were higher a month ago, and I suspect will increase again in the next couple months. Heck, if there are no changes I care about on the 2019's, this same Denim Blue one could even be available.
  
• I'm 99% sure of going with the Volvo, but I wouldn't mind taking a little more time to think about (i.e., agonize over) the competitors. I mean, if I'm going to stick with this choice long-term ( ) I want to take my time.
  
• With brand new Blizzaks on the Durango, I may as well get through this winter season.
  

ab348

Good gravy man, are you turning over a new leaf? Sober second thought and all that???

breld

It's never too late to mature a bit.

stickguy

All good points. Plus, once the 19s are out, the 18s will drop in price too.

Can get a head start trying to sell off the spares. Unless of course you really want to trade them in.

Curious though. Did you ever try out an MDX? Or not luxury enough? Certainly roomy and fully loaded.

Michaell

And, the Denver Auto Show is in a month; would hate for @breld to not be in full on search mode when we attend.

breld

I did take an MDX Sport Hybrid out last week. Compared to the others I'm considering, it's definitely a step or two below in luxury and refinement, and I really had that in mind for the first half of the drive. But by the end of the test drive, I found myself impressed with the overall package.

The drivetrain is excellent - the 7 speed DCT was smooth and responsive and the acceleration was quick. This was an Advance package, so it had pretty much all the features of the Volvo and Audi, but at a much lower price point.

The middle row captain's chairs with the center console was probably the most impressive "feature." It basically had the same center console as the front row, so sort of felt like a limo for the second row passengers.

The mechanism for sliding the second rows forward to access the third row is the same as the Pilot (and maybe the Odyssey?), which is to say it's very nice. A simple push of a button folds and slides the seat forward.

So, it's a compelling package. For a $1,500 premium I'm not sure why there aren't more Sport Hybrid models out there.

Mr_Shiftright

Is there a more beautiful car in the world?

http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/2086-Jaguar-E-Type Series I FHC-4.2 liter inline-6?utm_source=1967+BRG+Jag+E-Type+SI+FHC+&utm_campaign=BRG/saddle+SI+E-Type+FHC&utm_medium=email

ab348

That's certainly a nice one in good colors. Personally I think certain Ferraris of that era are prettier but you are not going to get one of those for many times that money.

stickguy

Yes. The DHC

Mr_Shiftright

I prefer the FHC but I'll take either, Your choice. Also the E-Type is not as ornery as a 1967 Ferrari and cheaper to repair (although "cheaper" is relative). I mean, really, with Lincoln Navigators hitting $80K and Mercedes AMG wagons----STATION WAGONS---at $140K, any sensible person would buy this instead!

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Is there a more beautiful car in the world? http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/2086-Jaguar-E-Type Series I FHC-4.2 liter inline-6?utm_source=1967+BRG+Jag+E-Type+SI+FHC+&utm_campaign=BRG/saddle+SI+E-Type+FHC&utm_medium=email

I will be brave and state a very controversial opinion. The Alfa 8c took over the "most beautiful" title, IMHO.

breld

Alright - you all asked for it.

Submitted for consideration of "most beautiful."

qbrozen

breld said:

Alright - you all asked for it. Submitted for consideration of "most beautiful."

 It would have to be a very small field of contestants for that one to come out on top. Ha ha ha. 

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

I prefer the FHC but I'll take either, Your choice. Also the E-Type is not as ornery as a 1967 Ferrari and cheaper to repair (although "cheaper" is relative). I mean, really, with Lincoln Navigators hitting $80K and Mercedes AMG wagons----STATION WAGONS---at $140K, any sensible person would buy this instead!

If you're using 1960s Jag reliability as an argument against the Ferrari, the Italian car would need to come with a tow truck included in the sale.

Speaking of DHC versus FHC - last summer I was at Home Depot and parked across from an E-type DHC, top down. Seems an odd vehicle to take shopping at a place like that. Maybe he needed some O-rings. But the FHC has a large and useful rear cargo area. Probably not big enough to take a bathtub, but could fit a kitchen sink nicely.

fintail

Nice pics on the Jaaaaag. I like the 80s era plates on it.

Mr_Shiftright

breld said:

Alright - you all asked for it.

Submitted for consideration of "most beautiful."

Call a paramedic. This man is hallucinating.

ab348

MY EYES

breld

breld

So, intent on reducing our fleet, I've actually had the Type R listed for sale on cars.com for about a month.

Auction values are around $35-36k, listed prices are a crazy range of about $35k on up to low $40k's.

I started out asking $36,900, then reduced it to $35,300, and now have it at $34,900. Lots of views on the ad, but not a single phone call.

Seems curious to me, but I attribute to 1) the winter season here in Denver and 2) more significant I think, the target buyer for this car isn't well equipped or experienced to purchase from a private seller; they would be more comfortable working with a dealer who can offer financing and such.

Just got off the phone with a broker regarding consigning the car. They said they'd rather just buy it outright from me and offered $34,000 (actually threw out $33,800 but naturally said they could push it to $34k).

Considering I had a buy bid from Carmax for $32,000, which we thought was a lowball until a Honda dealer offered $29,000 for it, this $34k offer is pretty strong, I'd say.