Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

bumpy

would a 2000 Accord with 140,000 miles on it, dents and scrapes here and there, a tricky rear door lock, and an intermittent problem with stalling or just flat-out refusing to start and leaving me stranded at work, be worth much more than my 2000 Intrepid in similar condition?

I ran the numbers, and Edmunds says that a white Intrepid with 140k in average condition (assuming you get the stalling problem remedied) is worth just under $1000 private sale, while the Accord would be just over $2500.

roadburner

BMW is offering a 2.9% 36 month loan on most of their CPO cars, and they make(not defer) the first two payments. If I decide to ditch the MS3 and buy the 3er I found I think that I'll take the trade in money as cash(or sell the MS3 to Carmax) and finance as close to 100% as I can. I'll stick the cash in a Merrill Lynch 3.36% 3 month CD. Bt the time my first payment is due the CD will have matured and I'll then pay off the loan in full. I'll also be getting my $500 BMW CCA loyalty bonus. I think that the swap will end up costing me @$1000 out of pocket...

british_rover

Sounds like a plan all the way around. Do you get sales tax credit in your state for tradeins on used cars though? If so you might be better off trading the MS3 in then selling it to carmax.

andre1969

I ran the numbers, and Edmunds says that a white Intrepid with 140k in average condition (assuming you get the stalling problem remedied) is worth just under $1000 private sale, while the Accord would be just over $2500.

So, say $1600 difference. That's actually fairly significant. However, I wonder how much of a price difference there would have been when the cars were new? I remember my Trep, a base model with no options, stickered for $20,950, including freight. I forget now what I paid for it. I just remember the out-the-door price was $22,389, including tax, tags, a $1200 extended warranty that I never had to use, and I got them to throw in a 12-disc CD changer. So strip all that off, and maybe I got it for $1K off? I could've gotten more off, but I went for the 0.9% financing.

I wonder what a comparably-equipped Accord would have sold for, back then? I'm sure with the 0.9% financing, I came out way ahead with the Trep, because I'm sure there's no way they were offering anything like that on an Accord back then!

In this case, if I had it to do over again I still would have gone with the Intrepid, because the Accord back then was too small for my tastes. In the intervening years though, the Japanese cars have grown just enough, at least in the dimensions I needed them to, to where that gap is pretty much closed.

kyfdx

I think in KY, trading in one used car for another, at a dealer, is the only time that you get a credit against the sales tax..

michaellno

Are you telling me that it's possible that my rental car has the 2.7L V6 in it?

Oy! No wonder acceleration feels so locomotive-like.

Andre, I admit I've been doing the same thing .. comparing the trade-in value of my L-series to the cars I was looking at .... Accord, Passat, Altima. While I saved a few thousand on the purchase price, I suspect that the difference in the trade in value is about that much less as well, 5 1/2 years later.

Not that I really am driving it that much. I filled it up last week and noticed that it had been almost 3 weeks since the last fill up. Nice to work from home in this era of $3.50 gas.

roadburner

I think in KY, trading in one used car for another, at a dealer, is the only time that you get a credit against the sales tax..

That's right, and I will factor it into my decision to sell or trade. Since both cars have roughly equivalent auction values, I'm hoping that I can work the deal for an @$2000 difference.

lilengineerboy

My question: even with all the extra $$ off, would a GM car be cheaper over several years (with depreciation, etc) than a Honda or Toyota?

Yeah, maybe not, but with the way I hang onto cars, depreciation may not be that big of a point. For instance, would a 2000 Accord with 140,000 miles on it, dents and scrapes here and there, a tricky rear door lock, and an intermittent problem with stalling or just flat-out refusing to start and leaving me stranded at work, be worth much more than my 2000 Intrepid in similar condition?

It depends...the Honda likely needs a main relay, the Chrysler likely needs a cam position sensor, both are about $70 and depending on if you are a contortionist or not, can be put in by a lay person. The Honda's rear door needs lubricant...

It still depends on which would you rather have. I believe the resale value of the Accord is still considerably (at least a grand) more than that of the Chrysler.

qbrozen

Ah. I see they changed their offer recently. So is the 2.9 limited to only 36 months? The plan that expired at the end of april didn't include the first 2 payments, but the special rate applied up to 60 months. I also see the '04s are off the board, whereas those were included before.

woodyww

This is the 2005 325Ci w/50K miles? Miles aren't super low, & others urged getting one with the bigger engine. Still, it's not exactly giant $$, & if you've shopped around a lot, & really like the car.........well I'm totally biased towards bmw's......

Plus That $500 BMW CCA rebate check is so nice, when you get it, makes you feel good all over.

PS I'm sure you've factored in the snow tire aspect in KY.....

kyfdx

E46 325 with sport pkg and stick? Those are a blast!! I think they were rated for 0-60 in 7.1 seconds, so not slow..

Easy to find winter tire/rim packages, as well..

What's not to like?

roadburner

So is the 2.9 limited to only 36 months?

That I don't know; I wish that it was 24 months-or 12 -so those two payments would be really significant.

roadburner

E46 325 with sport pkg and stick? Those are a blast!! I think they were rated for 0-60 in 7.1 seconds, so not slow..

Easy to find winter tire/rim packages, as well..

What's not to like?

That's my take on it. The car is fitted with my three "mandatory" options(not counting the Sports Package):
1. Manual transmission
2. Xenons
3. Heated seats

It should also post fairly decent fuel economy numbers as well. Of course, I'll also have to add a Conforti intake and Shark Injector...

qbrozen

Man, this kept me up part of last night. So I know its time to get some real help.

What I was pondering was this: I can get into an '05 S60R with low miles NOW and roll my remaining lease payments into the loan and have right around my same current payment. OR I can wait another year and get an '06 S60R for the same payment but for a 1-year shorter loan term. So, either way, I'm paying the same amount of money for the same amount of years, but in the first situation I get a car I will love now and in the other I have to suffer with my current lease for another year.

Sounds like a no brainer, doesn't it? HOWEVER, is it worth waiting to get an '06 over the '05? Keep in mind I'd be getting an automatic! That means, with the '05, I'd have to reflash the ECU to remove the torque limiter, whereas it won't be necessary in the '06 (6-speed auto with no limiter over the '05s limited 5-speed). So that's pretty much another $1k to take into consideration, right?

I don't think longevity is a problem. Lots of folks have reported running 10s of thousands of miles so far with the torque limiter removed and no adverse effects.

So ... smart thing is to wait, right? OF course. But that means another year of suffering.
Any thoughts appreciated. Clear-headed logic would be appreciated. Cause I know I'm not seeing it clearly.

kyfdx

Ride that lease out...

Look at this way... It's penance for getting a car you really didn't want in the first place.. Next time, you'll know better.. (not to mention, you'll be better off financially.. At the end of your loan term, you'll own an '06 model, instead of an '05).

akangl

I haven't stopped by for a while, been too busy with this and that. Haven't bought anything, still love my Pilot. Wish it was a little better on gas, but I guess 20-22 mpg in mixed driving isn't horrible. Its way cheaper to drive then either of our diesels........ouch!

Speaking of them, we've decided to close down our business and sell at least one truck. Probably the old Ford, bless her heart, great truck, but don't really need 2 diesels. Although if it could pull the horse trailer we'd probably cut the Ram from the herd, however, I've seen what that horse trailer can do to a SRW 1-ton! Can't imagine it behind a 3/4 ton!

Fuel killed us, we were spending so much in fuel it didn't make sense to even go out in the woods. We'll finish out the year and take care of the remaining customers, but then that's it. Kinda strange to be putting down the chainsaw after 8 years.

Our Ram has been hit twice in the past 3 weeks by hit and run drivers. First one got the pass side bumper, fender and door, last one got the pass side fender higher up. Makes me wonder if there's a bullseye on it somewhere! Estimate on the first one was around $1400, probably won't add much for the next spot since its the same fender/area as the first one. Good old hip national bank will take care of it later on this summer when the truck can have some downtime.

I'm glad spring is finally here!

qbrozen

I gues I'm going to TRY to hold out for an '06. I seriously doubt I'll be riding out the lease till the end, though.

stickguy

how about a nice '07, in Titanium (love this color).

http://www.cdmdata.com/cdmdigitallot/VehicleDetails.aspx?DealerID=4344&vin=YV1RH- 527X72626803&dID=4344

guss

That's just not right.....do you give the rummies in money to buy alcohol too. I With only 11k miles that does look like a pretty nice S60 R, i have always liked S60's and the used prices seem to be coming down. Put me in the waiting for the lease to be up camp, but I certainly understand the fever for a new to you ride.

Akangl, it seemed like you were working too hard for what the firewood business was worth before the gas prices spiked. Every time I see the show Axmen on cable I thought of you. It seems like a very dangerous way to make a living. I am sure your kids will be glad you are done with it.

rayainsw

My 2007 Corvette coupe will be 2 years old ( and have roughly 33,000 miles ) come this November.

I plan to buy a 2009 Pontiac G8 GT. I have driven a couple of 2008s,and ( for the money ) I think this is a real bargain.

I am planning to hold out until November before buying . . .

That’s only another 6 months.

No sweat, right?

- Ray
CCBA Member Number 13 . . .

corvette

The local Pontiac dealer has had a total of 0 G8s on his lot. Actually, he has very few new cars on his lot, period--mostly used. Given that more people are buying used cars due to the economy, I guess that makes sense.

roadburner

My local dealer had 4 or 5 GTs on the lot. If only it had three pedals...
Yes, I know about the upcoming GXP, but if I'm going to spend close to $40K I'd rather find a 2004-2005 CPO M3 with the Competition Package.
I DO like the fact that you can skip the sunroof on the G8. The dealer had a nice white GT with the black/red interior and just the Premium and Performance packages. It IS a lot of car for the money.

qbrozen

titanium is my first choice, but black interior is my last choice. ;b

In order, I'm thinking:
titanium/atacama (that's the orangey leather)
titanium/nordkap (dark blue metallic-like leather)
titanium/tan
black/atacama
black/tan

Other colors would depend. I don't think I've seen any others I really LIKE, but there are others I could live with (like red). Silver would be pushing it. I really don't like silver, but it does look nice against that nordkap interior.

By the way, dealer pointed out that an '04 V70R with manual is coming up for auction at manheim this week. Ugh! That is just SO tempting. Fortunately, its a bad color combo (silver over tan).

akangl

Akangl, it seemed like you were working too hard for what the firewood business was worth before the gas prices spiked. Every time I see the show Axmen on cable I thought of you. It seems like a very dangerous way to make a living. I am sure your kids will be glad you are done with it.

It was good money, really still is, but without more equipment we are just working ourselves into the ground. So we came to a crossroads, spend the $50k+ to buy some more equipment or just call it quits. Hubby's heart wasn't in it anymore, so we called it quits. Eight years is long enough, have the old injuries and pain to show for it. Hubby was nearly killed by a tree a few years ago, one close call is enough. We loved it, had a great time, it was fun, but its time to move on.

Axemen is nothing like what we were doing, they are doing cable yarding, much more dangerous. We brought all of our trees into the landing with our great and faithful skidder. Course hubby still had to fall the trees by hand, that was very dangerous stuff.

woodyww

To me it would take a Rocket Scientist, + an accountant, to figure out all the different aspects of this decision, the way you've described it.

It almost sounds more complex, than how I make my own various buying/selling/moving/repair decisions. (And I thought I was the Master at making even simple decisions complicated!).

And the torque limiter HAS to be removed, on an '05?

If it's just about $1000, & you're "suffering", then just buy the '05! But some people like prolonging the buying decisions, because then, there's still all these possibilities out there, & maybe something "better"...... "suffering" is a part of that, I think.......( not criticising, just relating to your car buying angst).....

woodyww

hubby still had to fall the trees by hand, that was very dangerous stuff.

Only thing I know about it, is, I've had a few tree guys here over the years to remove trees or do estimates, & 2 of them had obviously suffered very severe injuries......

qbrozen

hehe.

well, anytime I do make a decision and buy a car, the wife says "well now what will you do with your time?"

Does the torque limiter HAVE to be removed? No. But its actually no faster than a T5 with that limiter.

I'm just going to sit on it ... I think. I watch a particular board everyday to see what pops up. If the right one comes along ... who knows?

fezo

Sounds like she gets as much entertainment from your adventures as we do... :P

woodyww

You have a recent V6 Accord Coupe, right? Running great, no problems? Good mileage? You're in a real good position with that car, either to keep for 10 years, or just keep shopping.......

Reading the RRTIV board, with tales of woe for large SUV's, even X3's (?), which get pretty OK mileage, I'm wondering, at some point, if X3's or X5's will be so cheap & plentiful that they'll be really good deals. For someone who doesn't put on huge miles anyway.....?

woodyww

So I finally got a $625 garage roof re-shingle job (over the old shingles). Has stopped the leaking (so far, knock wood). Saved at least $1000 over stripping off the old shingles, etc. My bmw is back in the garage.

Naturally, now a lot of the plumbing in my 57 y.o. house is failing. Here are some estimates I got today from a big Boston area plumbing company :

Replace a 2 ft. section of drain pipe (tailpiece?) underneath kitchen sink + new sink strainer assembly: $657.

New kitchen faucet: between $755 & $888, installed. (I forgot to ask if the faucets are made of solid gold, or titanium). I swear, I'm not making this up.

New 40 gal. water heater: $1900, installed.

I think I should just hire a local plumber, by the hour, altho that can turn out badly, too. PS-I have replaced faucets myself before, it's a royal pain, but to save $700 (!!!??) :confuse:

andre1969

I think I should just hire a local plumber, by the hour, altho that can turn out badly, too. PS-I have replaced faucets myself before, it's a royal pain, but to save $700 (!!!??)

In the past whenever I've needed plumbing work, I used a company called My Plumber. Probably online as www.myplumber.com or something like that. I dunno if they're local or nationwide, but they seemed like a pretty big outfit.

Luckily I haven't needed much. Had to have them out once when I had my condo, and twice since I've been in my 92 year old house. Their prices seemed fairly reasonable to me. Luckily though, I found out that I have a distant cousin who actually lives nearby, who is a plumber, so the last time I needed something, I just called him! :shades: I think Boston's a bit out of his area though. :sick:

I'm probably going to have to break down soon and get a new roof on my house. There are three spots (that I know of, at least) where it will leak if the rain/wind hit it just right. Oddly though, this past weekend we got like 7 inches of rain, and it hardly leaked at all!

qbrozen

Its a sedan (not like it matters)

Mileage is quite good. Ummm... it runs fine. Shifter gives me problems, though. And the tires, although plenty of life, are crap. Other than that, it let's in too much road noise and rides rougher than our 20-year-old bimmer. Am I nitpicking? maybe. I think I've just gotten too spoiled. Its one thing to have these issues on a dedicated sportscar, but its another to have it on my daily driver/family sedan. I really really thought I would enjoy this car. I've come to realize, however, I'll never be happy for long in an economy car.

Its a lease, so there is no way in heck I'm keeping it 10 years. The 2-year anniversary is next week, so its got 53 weeks left. I can't see me going more than another 6 months with it, but we'll see.

qbrozen

Hmmmm... ya know, I'm thinking it might be worthwhile for me to drive from NJ to Boston and charge you half that!

That work under the sink is a joke. We're talking $15 of stuff and an hour at the absolute extreme outside chance.

Faucet? Hell, even our custom ordered Delta was like $250, including shipping to our front door. Add in new flex lines for $8 and a half-hour install time.

Water heater is a bit outside my experience, but I do know you can buy high-efficiency ones at Home Depot for maybe $400 tops. I'm thinking 2 hours ... let's say 3 hours install?

So you are looking at $3300-$3400? And I'm thinking, even at $100/hr, $1200 would be the high end. So you are only getting quoted triple ... what's the problem?

corvette

I think I picked the wrong career. Although I don't think I could do a lot of the "septic" stuff.

My microwave just gave out today... How's a single guy supposed to eat? The silver lining is that it's under warranty and I have the sales ticket.

fezo

Ah! So now I know who to hit for my plumbing work. Nice and close, too!

qbrozen

uh-oh.
now i stepped in it.

;b

stickguy

We just had our HW heater replaced. The local gas company did it, for a good price. new 50 gal installed, for $1,000.

FInd a local guy with refreences. You will save a bundle, and they are usually more willing to do the small stuff, if you don't want to go ahead and do it yourself.

Last year I had my guy install a new faucet (that I bought). I think it cost me $80? And the Moen faucet was in the 100s someplace (may $150?)

Actually, you should just write up your tail of woe and send it to this old house, since you are local. Have them come out and build your dream palce, with the 6 car garage!

stever

Wow, those plumbing prices are amazing. I have a handy buddy from Anchorage visit for a week most winters on his way to visit his family in Texas. He did two days worth of copper pipe sweating to reroute my water filter housing and put a new electric water heater in for me about a year and a half ago. I think I was out $300 for the parts and permit.

I better send him some Idaho spuds or something.

There's a '95 Miata for sale locally and the guy is only asking $3800 - just double TMV. I think the gas prices may be causing people to look at these as fun economical commuters that are a bit safer than motorcycles.

tifighter

There's a '95 Miata for sale locally and the guy is only asking $3800 - just double TMV. I think the gas prices may be causing people to look at these as fun economical commuters that are a bit safer than motorcycles.

Plus its a convertible. And its May...

stever

I've been watching them since last September. They've been over-priced all through the winter too. :sick:

guss

Funny you should mention Miata sale, I just sold my '97 M last week for $1000 more than I paid for it. After sales tax and a few things I did to it I cleared about $400.

I was at the bank and a guy offered me what I paid for it in December. So the little wheels in my brain start turning and I decided to put it on Craigs List. It was sold in 3 days with 3 people coming to look at it and all at least made a decent offer. The guy that bought it had a Trailblazer and wanted something more fuel efficient for his commute, just like you said Steve. I did not have the heart to tell him,although he probably already knew it, that there is no way the cost of an additional vehicle will make up for the fuel savings.

I'll miss it but it was too small for me and leaving my Escape outside(even though we had almost no snow this winter) was killing me.

fezo

I did almost exactly what you are describing except I bought a 99 Celica convertible because it had a back seat and could be had for less than a 99 Miata.

I know it doesn't make a great deal of economic sense but I probably cover half the insurance in gas savings so it's pretty cheap to keep on the road and it's a heck of a lot more fun than the van, which now only sees use when I actually need either the room or the number of seats.

qbrozen

I did not have the heart to tell him,although he probably already knew it, that there is no way the cost of an additional vehicle will make up for the fuel savings.

Somebody just asked this in the Answers thingy majig.

I think it all depends. If he's running a Trailblazer, he's probably getting 17 mpg at best. What's the Miata going to get? 25? 27? So, yeah, unless he drives the Miata 20k miles per year that he would have put on his Trailblazer, its probably not worth it.

But if someone gets ... I dunno ... a Yaris to offset a Hummer ... it would take quite a bit less driving to offset the costs.

andre1969

I think it all depends. If he's running a Trailblazer, he's probably getting 17 mpg at best. What's the Miata going to get? 25? 27? So, yeah, unless he drives the Miata 20k miles per year that he would have put on his Trailblazer, its probably not worth it.

Just for kicks, I ran the numbers on my uncle's savings since he bought his '03 Corolla, 6 years ago (got it Memorial Day weekend, 2002). He's put about 150,000 miles on it, mostly highway, and it's probably averaged about 36 mpg. In contrast, his '97 Silverado would get about 18. Over the course of 150,000 miles, the Corolla would've used about 4167 gallons, whereas the truck would've used about 8333.

If you assume $4.00 per gallon in gas, which is where it will be soon, that's about a $16,700 savings, although that's not an accurate assumption, since gas was under $1.50 per gallon as recently as early 2004. So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it saved him about $10K in gas. It ended up costing something like $15K, out the door. And I'm guessing that insurance might've run another $600 per year, for 6 years, which comes out to $3600. Registration is $128 every two years.

So, I guess you can look at it as my uncle paid $19K and saved $10K in fuel, for a new loss of $9K. More importantly though, that Corolla helped his truck last longer. Had he never bought it, I'm sure he would've run that Silverado into the ground by now, and it may have broken down and left him stranded a few times (it did that, anyway :sick: ) He'd probably be into another truck by now, and have it fairly well miled up.

Overall, I guess it was a good decision. As it stands, he has a truck that's still serviceable, and a Corolla with some life left in it, so he won't have to buy anything else anytime soon.

guss

with an additional car is the maintenance, insurance and registration. The Miata as an additional car would have cost me about $750 per year. My Escape gets 20mpg, the Miata was 28, so that would mean I had to drive the Miata about 15k miles per year for it to pay off. Gas mileage alone is not the reason to buy a fun car though, but it helps when you are trying to convince the wife we will be saving money.

guss

Since you are sorta the CCBA resident Volvo expert, what do you think of this:

link title

I know it's not as fast as a R, but I am not looking for fast. If I can swap my car close to even up , I can pick up a few mpg at little cost and get into a nicer ride . The big drawback is lack of sunroof, and higher maintenance cost.

kyfdx

Yeah... you have to subtract from his costs the currrent value of the Corolla, and also the gain in value of the truck, considering 150K less miles on it...

Then there are the non-quantifiable advantages of having an extra car, etc..

qbrozen

well, lesseee... looks kind of worn and pretty dirty to me. Things like that bug me. I like to see a car was taken care of. Especially a euro car.

The base engine won't thrill you, but you do drive an Escape, so it might not bother you, either. I guess you could do worse for the money. I certainly wouldn't expect the 31mpg the ad claims, however. I think 27-28 might be about as good as it gets.

If it were me, I'd want to go up a bit. an '04 and up 2.5T (the '03 2.5T was only available with AWD). You sacrifice very little in mileage (maybe 1-2 mpg), you gain an immense amount of fun and drivability, and the 2.5T is a really durable engine.

I guess the big questions are: how many miles on your Escape? What mileage do you get in it?

edit: I just looked it up. 2.4 is rated at 22/31 and the 2.5T is 22/30. And its maybe worth $500 more. I think that's a no brainer, personally.

qbrozen

I was surfing around for a coworker (that one with the Xterra) and came upon this Celica GT

Low miles, but 7 years older than yours. I think it makes yours look like a heckuva deal.

woodyww

too much road noise and rides rougher than our 20-year-old bimmer

I have a friend with a roughly 10 y.o. Accord. It's "OK". Does seem to have a rough ride, & I don't feel all that safe in it. Makes my 8 y.o. 5-series seem like a Bank Vault in comparison, with 10 times nicer interior, ride, Handling, etc.....