Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen

Never drove a 370, but I can speak to my 135 vs 350z. The 135 was obviously quite a bit faster, but also heavier, quieter, more ... civilized. The Z was a sportscar. I felt more connected to it, and it to the road. So they do serve different purposes, I think. And preference would be based on what you are looking for. A sportscar or a sportscruiser.

rayainsw

'@Ray, did you get a new ride?' - marcogallo1986
No - not yet - another 5 lease payments..
- Ray
[ sigh ]

Michaell

breld said:

My 16 year old called me at 11:00 the other night (on his way home) to say he took a left turn a bit too sharply and curbed the driver's side rear tire. Apparently it scared the heck out of him - and the tire was completely flat.

So...given it's an older Acura with an actual spare tire, it was a sort of fun opportunity to show him how to change a tire out. And then we just drove it over to the local Discount Tire and left it there for the night.

The tires were going to have to be replaced soon-ish anyway, so we just put on four new tires. Overall it was a good lesson for him - scared him a bit, made him more aware of spacing on turns, and at the end of the day, there wasn't any horrible consequence.

Way better than my 16 year old, for sure.

28firefighter

So, I have an etiquette question here. And I'm really sorry @isellhondas is not around anymore to weigh in since I'm pretty sure one of the dealers I was talking to was his old one.

You might know I've been helping a friend shop for a CR-V Touring for his Dad who is consolidating from two cars down to one. I researched trade values for both (courtesy of CarMax, Vroom, and our very own @qbrozen), and also did some due diligence on sale prices this month online and also soliciting quotes from a few area Honda dealers. Trade on car #1 (Honda Ridgeline) was the same from all 3 at $21k - nice and easy. Trade on car #2 (Miata) was all over the place - CarMax @ $13k, Q at $14k, and Vroom at $15k.

Dealer #1 gave me a very straight forward price of invoice including a few hundred bucks of accessories no one cares about. Dealer #2 gave a very aggressive price but then added close to $1000 in accessories and handling fees to make it within a few hundred bucks lower than Dealer #1, then told me to shop is number and come back when we realized it could not be beat - very pushy. Dealer #3 was higher than both before accessories.

Decided Dealer #1 was who we preferred to deal with - they were straightforward, polite, and very easy to deal with by email. They will also be the servicing dealer because they are closest. Decided to make an offer of trading both cars in and getting back about $2k in cash all fees included. The way I figured it was giving them their sale price, but asking for $15k on trade for the Miata and $21k on trade for the Ridgeline. Figuring I don't care how they want to show it on paper as the difference is the difference. They accepted - agreed it was fair for all.

Emailed Dealer #2 and Dealer #3 to let them know. Dealer #3 was very gracious, appreciated the opportunity and for letting them know. Dealer #2 got very upset with me, said they would match whatever and beat it by $500 and could not understand why we wouldn't go with the lowest price. I explained our stance and offered to follow-up if the other deal fell through. They got indignant and said they could not understand why we would not drive a bit further to save $500. I haven't responded because it seems like an unnecessary dialogue.

Even if we could have saved up to $500 by going to Dealer #2, it doesn't feel like behavior that should be rewarded. Friend and his Dad are on board completely with going to Dealer #1. Am I being as crazy as this sales person seems to think I am? Did I miss something here?

stickguy

that was out of line by them. They should graciously say something like, hope we can do business in the future, and good luck to you.

probably, you are the first person to actually let them know you went elsewhere, and they did not know what to do!

qbrozen

you did nothing wrong, of course. I would just say that it isn't all about the lowest price and you feel more comfortable dealing with dealer 1. end of story.

28firefighter

I also have a problem with this notion of someone trying to get us to back out of a deal already agreed to. If the tables were turned, they'd be furious.

stickguy

on the wheel, the downside to a gray finish. when you scrape it, you get down to the aluminum, so you really see the difference. on a polished wheel, it is the same color, just with some scratches.

I did check the place I got a replacement wheel once for my Odyssey when it was bent. Turns out, only $265, with free shipping. So, not as bad as I thought. Plus of course, cost of mounting. an expensive lesson to pay better attention to curbs that stick out.

I do need to call the warranty place to see what if anything they will do. especially if just scraped, not busted.

pensfan83

I went through the same thing with the Acura, agreeing with a deal with one Acura dealer because they were the most straightforward and open. When I let the first dealer I inquired with know my decision they immediately said they would cut the price, albeit only by several hundred dollars and reminded me that I said at the outset I hoped to do business with them. They weren't as erratic with their comments but said they never knew anyone to turn down a lower price. Admittedly I almost did go back to them but realized I wouldn't appreciate having an offer pulled back on me.

ronsteve

stickguy said:

That’s plenty for probably 99% of people, 99% of the time. And way faster than the classic ones.

I was looking more at respectable power, a stick, well balanced handling, etc.

If the goal is a hellcat, they make those too!

I almost bought a 168 hp 525i back in 2001. I kept hearing that is was “too slow”, but I found it plenty quick off the line, and had great mid range pull. 30 to 70 down an on-ramp, did great there. Plus, you can use the stick to keep the revs up when you need more scoot on tap.

I’d rather have that than something with so much power you have to feather the gas from a stop, and can’t ever take it over 2k RPM.

Maybe I’m a Luddite, but I find my 4 banger TLX to be plenty spritely. The RDX is a little hot rod if you floor it.

Agreed, stick. If you get on it with that V6 it'll move, and make you forget what type of vehicle you're actually driving. On the flipside, it's easy to end up in no-man's land sometimes with the VCM in a highway cruise setting when you need to hit a gap or something. The RDX a very strange performer that way, like you have to either be fully committed to either a very tame or a very sporty driving demeanor.

I'm a bit of a luddite myself with things like Nav/CarPlay/nanny technology, spare tires, gears putting power to the ground, but with the power itself I have come to appreciate turbos. We'll see if turbo power brings my inner CCB out to play before I would otherwise.

ronsteve

28FF, you're doing the right thing continuing with Dealer #1, *especially* since that's where you plan to get your service. If their deal goes south and you go somewhere else, that's on them, but if you back out of a deal with the eventual servicing dealer, they might remember that.

breld

28ff - agreed you're doing the right thing. I would simply tell the other dealer that your intention was not to pit dealers against each other, and that they should have simply come forward with their best pricing in the first place. Hard to argue with that (though they probably would).

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

I also have a problem with this notion of someone trying to get us to back out of a deal already agreed to. If the tables were turned, they'd be furious.

Just let it go... the world is full of unprofessional dealership personnel. You did nothing wrong.

tifighter

Something tells me I could probably guess who dealer #2 is.

au1994

No you did nothing wrong @28firefighter. I don’t want to add fuel to the fire of hating on car dealers because there are some, as you found, that are easy and fair to deal with. It’s the rest that drives me nuts.

au1994

breld said:

I remember getting my '93 Prelude Si when I graduated college - 160 hp and I was hot stuff!

That was quite sporty for the day. Mustangs were putting out in the 235 range with a big ol honkin V8.

I’m sure there has been a case study done but it seems to me that 220-230 is about the perfect usable HP range. Our X6, the F30 335i and the E93 335i all had 300+ hp and were flat out fast. At least in a straight line in the case of the F30. My ZHP was 235 and while not neck snapping quick off the line, pulled like a freight train otherwise.

tifighter

I'm finding the 470-ish hp on the 3 to be workable. It pulls pretty well.

28firefighter

tifighter said:

Something tells me I could probably guess who dealer #2 is.

It’s not Klein. I don’t even waste my time with them.

corvette

kyfdx said:

corvette said:

Better curb protection is a bonus of switching to a plus-zero tire size.

If the Plus ZERO is done correctly, the sidewall be the exact same height..

If it's taller, you are just putting on the wrong size..

Not taller, but I meant that the wider tread will cause the sidewall to protrude slightly further from the edge of the wheel.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

that was out of line by them. They should graciously say something like, hope we can do business in the future, and good luck to you.

probably, you are the first person to actually let them know you went elsewhere, and they did not know what to do!

+1

kyfdx

corvette said:

kyfdx said:

corvette said:

Better curb protection is a bonus of switching to a plus-zero tire size.

If the Plus ZERO is done correctly, the sidewall be the exact same height..

If it's taller, you are just putting on the wrong size..

Not taller, but I meant that the wider tread will cause the sidewall to protrude slightly further from the edge of the wheel.

Ahhh... gotcha

xwesx

breld said:

My 16 year old called me at 11:00 the other night (on his way home) to say he took a left turn a bit too sharply and curbed the driver's side rear tire. Apparently it scared the heck out of him - and the tire was completely flat.

So...given it's an older Acura with an actual spare tire, it was a sort of fun opportunity to show him how to change a tire out. And then we just drove it over to the local Discount Tire and left it there for the night.

The tires were going to have to be replaced soon-ish anyway, so we just put on four new tires. Overall it was a good lesson for him - scared him a bit, made him more aware of spacing on turns, and at the end of the day, there wasn't any horrible consequence.

Too bad stick's dad wasn't there to bail him out!

qbrozen

Saw one of these in the wild yesterday. That's a sharp looking truck! Doesn't appear they even offer this color anymore. Limited availability one year only? Gotta be rare.

marcogallo1986

@ 28 firefighter, you did nothing wrong good on the choice of the dealer that your dad‘s friend. I rather deal with a dealer that straight up front and transparent and doesn’t play games any day. I have a dealers around here play games, I realize that recently helping my neighbor look for a new lease on another car we still have to go look at stuff soon the lease is up at the end of September. Anyway most dealers won’t give me numbers over the phone or email you tell me you have to come in and I said I don’t want to I want all the numbers upfront and then we’ll go from there. Only the one Hyundai dealer near me here give me numbers over the phone and wasn’t pushy inside And told me come in whenever you want to test drive the cars and if they like them will move forward if not at least they know which was good that’s the way all dealer should be which is rare. I’ve been had dealers last year when I was looking for my mom, tell me oh we can’t give you numbers over the phone because of confidentiality rules I told him to stop with the nonsense I don’t have time in a nice way of course. There’s one other nice dealer I don’t with you give me numbers through text it was a GMC dealer but I would go deal with here I remember the guys name to me told me he was there for 20 something years.

marcogallo1986

@QB what’s that truck you posted about I know it’s a blue but what is it?

stickguy

Dodge Durango. Hot rod version.

marcogallo1986

@ Ray, oh OK other five lease payments then you’re gonna have the car you mentioned on the Tire page most likely. Very nice very nice. Hope all is been going well with you and your family.

breld

While it was starting to be a bit outdated, I certainly liked my Durango R/T. There are days I wish I would have just kept that.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

Saw one of these in the wild yesterday. That's a sharp looking truck! Doesn't appear they even offer this color anymore. Limited availability one year only? Gotta be rare.

So, did you buy it?

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

qbrozen said:

Saw one of these in the wild yesterday. That's a sharp looking truck! Doesn't appear they even offer this color anymore. Limited availability one year only? Gotta be rare.

So, did you buy it?

@breld must have outbid me. ;b

28firefighter

Well. CR-V purchase went off without a hitch. No drama.

xwesx

28firefighter said:

Well. CR-V purchase went off without a hitch. No drama.

That's the way it should be! Congrats to your dad's friend.

roadburner

kyfdx said:

28firefighter said:

I also have a problem with this notion of someone trying to get us to back out of a deal already agreed to. If the tables were turned, they'd be furious.

Just let it go... the world is full of unprofessional dealership personnel. You did nothing wrong.

I agree.

roadburner

au1994 said:

breld said:

I remember getting my '93 Prelude Si when I graduated college - 160 hp and I was hot stuff!

That was quite sporty for the day. Mustangs were putting out in the 235 range with a big ol honkin V8.

I’m sure there has been a case study done but it seems to me that 220-230 is about the perfect usable HP range. Our X6, the F30 335i and the E93 335i all had 300+ hp and were flat out fast. At least in a straight line in the case of the F30. My ZHP was 235 and while not neck snapping quick off the line, pulled like a freight train otherwise.

What I really like about the BMW six cylinder turbos is how they make peak torque from just off idle to nearly 5000 rpm. At any speed you have a lot of thrust at your disposal.

au1994

Yep, they are awesome off the line. The X6 was also a great highway car. It would cruise forever at 80+ if you weren't careful. It was so quiet you hardly knew it. In Atlanta stop and go traffic, it was wasted of course.

While I love the Subaru and knew what I was getting into with its 152hp, its change your drivings style slow. I seriously had to rethink my merging and pulling out into traffic habits.

jmonroe1

28firefighter said:

Well. CR-V purchase went off without a hitch. No drama.

Congrats on helping your friends father buy a car from an upfront dealer.

If you ever run into another situation like this, I would go back to the first dealer and say something like, "Id really like to do business with you but another dealer has your price beat by more than just a couple bucks. Is there any way you can give me a better price"? What do you have to lose since you were going to buy from dealer number 1 anyway? As we like to say, "if you don't ask, you don't get". Just a suggestion.

jmonroe

28firefighter

I have done that before, @jmonroe and I may have done it here, if it didn't come across as a desperate move to get us in the door to Dealer #2. I have no confidence the deal would have materialized.

marcogallo1986

@ Jay Monroe, I agree with your above posting hey with anything in life if you don’t ask you don’t know ha ha Ha I hope you’re trying to behave yourself this week, wait why am I asking such a silly question, you know both me and you and probably some others around here like always cause good trouble, but not bad trouble. lol

marcogallo1986

@ stick guy, thank you nice

marcogallo1986

@ 28 firefighter, I’m glad the purchase for your friends dad went off without a hitch. I always say deal with dealers that are upfront and don’t wanna waste your time, which seems harder and harder to find these days, the ones who do waste your time don’t go back. And room and Havana or the weight of the future I believe. The only thing that stinks with those there’s no haggling allowed right the price is what you pay with a list? And you can test drive the car prior you have to go to a dealer anyway to see if you’d even like it

qbrozen

Good god I want this.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/246286611

stickguy

That’s pretty colors. Just need to ditch the black wheels and heavy tint.

60k miles, isn’t that a bit steep for one of these? And I really don’t want to know what maintenance costs will run!

stickguy

Took my wounded warrior TLX in today to tire store. Other than curbed wheel and needing an alignment, they said everything looked fine. So now I need to decide if I drive it scuffed until lease end, or pay to have it look nice again now.

I think it needed an alignment anyway. 3 of 4 wheels were out, and the worst one was the front on the other side. Tracks great now, and steering wheel nice and centered.

28firefighter

I'd fix the wheel. Would drive me bananas to have a damaged wheel on a car that new.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

That’s pretty colors. Just need to ditch the black wheels and heavy tint.

60k miles, isn’t that a bit steep for one of these? And I really don’t want to know what maintenance costs will run!

The v8 turbo is supposedly very robust and reliable, other than the plastic cooling tubes under the intake manifold, which can be taken care of by a resourceful owner.

ab348

28firefighter said:

I'd fix the wheel. Would drive me bananas to have a damaged wheel on a car that new.

Yeah, you don't want that bare alloy metal exposed to salt over the winter. I curbed one of my ATS wheels the first month I had it, repair cost a bit over $100 including demounting./mounting so not too bad.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

That’s pretty colors. Just need to ditch the black wheels and heavy tint.

60k miles, isn’t that a bit steep for one of these? And I really don’t want to know what maintenance costs will run!

The v8 turbo is supposedly very robust and reliable, other than the plastic cooling tubes under the intake manifold, which can be taken care of by a resourceful owner.

You really want to go to Staten Island to buy a car?

stickguy

I sent an online request to an alloy wheel repair place. have not heard back yet. Not sure if they will be able to do this since it is painted. Plus, there is the time factor of having a car with 3 wheels. I might just pay a little extra and buy a new wheel, then just have it swapped on.

28firefighter

So, in another phenomenal customer service experience, my wife and I were supposed to leave Sam for the weekend with my in-laws and fly to Chicago for a wedding. Of course, in true 28FF family tradition, Sam came home school the other day with 104 fever. Delta cancelled our flights and issued full-fare credit vouchers to us, completely waiving the cancellation fee. Said they didn't believe we should penalized for having a sick kid. I was and still am floored. I was expecting to pay $400 in cancellation fees.

corvette

That was nice of them. OTOH, they probably don’t want the potential liability of having a sick person on their plane.