Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

ab348

qbrozen said:

Who said I'd be posting pics of a disassembled dash? I believe that was for the Charger's stereo, but here is a much more horrific sight for you to cringe at.

Ruh-roh.

But is there light at the end of the tunnel that isn't an oncoming train?

marcogallo1986

@qb nice on all of the above!

marcogallo1986

@stick guy! How did The car looking. Go with your daughter! Yesterday I was

stickguy

Marco, other stuff came up so we did not go out. Probably trying Wednesday night.

stickguy

Q, hopefully after all that you tracked down the problem. and got it all put back together! That is way beyond what I would ever try! And yes, that was me, but I was thinking about the Charger.

I need your skills, and willingness to dive in. The RDX's USB is flakey. sometimes it connects, sometimes it doesn't, and will cut in and out (basic loose connection). But it is old fashioned, in that instead of a jack, it has a couple wires coming out with a plug dangling from the end. No clue why they did it like that, and no idea where the problem is. Maybe it would take cutting off the end and connecting a new one to the wires. Not something I will do, and probably a fortune to have the dealer debug and fix. Sadly I did not see the problem before the BtoB warranty ran out.

I just don't use it. Cheap fix. BT connection only, and a 12v outlet plug for charging.

marcogallo1986

@stick guy! Sounds good yes things to come up it is what it is but hopefully you guys are able to go Wednesday night.

qbrozen

No fix on the equinox. BUT, after reassembly and rereading the codes, they changed. So I think MAYBE I have it narrowed down to a particular connector at the rear diff. My next step will be to removed that connector altogether and rewire it. It is 10-11 wires, so not horrible.

ab348

stickguy said:

I need your skills, and willingness to dive in. The RDX's USB is flakey. sometimes it connects, sometimes it doesn't, and will cut in and out (basic loose connection). But it is old fashioned, in that instead of a jack, it has a couple wires coming out with a plug dangling from the end. No clue why they did it like that, and no idea where the problem is. Maybe it would take cutting off the end and connecting a new one to the wires. Not something I will do, and probably a fortune to have the dealer debug and fix. Sadly I did not see the problem before the BtoB warranty ran out.

I just don't use it. Cheap fix. BT connection only, and a 12v outlet plug for charging.

Could also be where it connects at the other end behind the dash or in the console. I had something like that on my previous ATS. USB connector inside the console compartment fell into the nothingness between the compartment and the gear lever. I took that section of the console apart and found a missing retainer clip laying on the center tunnel. Replaced and all was well again.

qbrozen

Agreed that best solution is pulling stereo and replacing whole wire.

nyccarguy

stickguy

sad yet exciting. I was bummed that I did not find a great replacement when Carvana made such a generous offer on the RDX. would have been fun to have new car arrive on flatbed, and old one leave on it. I would feel like such a player!

stickguy

qbrozen said:

Agreed that best solution is pulling stereo and replacing whole wire.

for the RDX? I need to look closer on how to get at it, but the USB comes out of the bottom of the cubby at the front of the console (right ahead of the shifter). I have no clue how many pieces have to be removed to get behind that. My guess is the whole center console. Maybe I will run out now and take a quick look since I am curious.

more likely, I live with it until I unload the car, since the other plausible option is paying to have it done. maybe I will ask the dealer next time it goes in for service how much to even check it out.

I really hate taking trim pieces off. they never seem to go back the way they came out.

ab348

Console removal doesn't look easy:

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rdx-diy-faq-406/center-console-removal-diy-962758/

Might be worth a try to do this:

https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-audio-bluetooth-electronics-navigation-294/2010-tl-usb-port-seemingly-died-926635/

Have you tried a different cable at your end? Sometimes they can go flaky.

jmonroe1

ab348 said:

Console removal doesn't look easy:

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rdx-diy-faq-406/center-console-removal-diy-962758/

Might be worth a try to do this:

https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-audio-bluetooth-electronics-navigation-294/2010-tl-usb-port-seemingly-died-926635/

Have you tried a different cable at your end? Sometimes they can go flaky.

ab348 said:

Console removal doesn't look easy:

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rdx-diy-faq-406/center-console-removal-diy-962758/

Might be worth a try to do this:

https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-audio-bluetooth-electronics-navigation-294/2010-tl-usb-port-seemingly-died-926635/

Have you tried a different cable at your end? Sometimes they can go flaky.

I agree. Connectors, connectors equals problems, problems. I have yet to find a wire go bad between connectors unless it was pinched due to a poor routing design or poor routing due to incompetence or laziness. Wires just don't go bad.

jmonroe

corvette

I think some of the older Volvos (or maybe it was another make) used biodegradable wiring... that kind, went bad.

stickguy

thanks AB. I will take a look. I tried a couple different wires that I knew were good, and even bought a USB port tester. it sometimes connects by goes in and out, like if a plug was loose in an outlet.

fintail

Many MBs from ~1992-96 had that issue in the wiring harness. You'll be out a good few grand to get it set right, but I guess the lucky thing is that most surviving cars so many years later have had the issue remedied.

corvette said:

I think some of the older Volvos (or maybe it was another make) used biodegradable wiring... that kind, went bad.

jmonroe1

corvette said:

I think some of the older Volvos (or maybe it was another make) used biodegradable wiring... that kind, went bad.

I never heard of that. However, if that was actually the case it had to be the insulation and not the copper wire covered by it. In any case I can't think of a reason for doing it. Talk about planned obsolescence or doing something "just because we can". I couldn't trust any company who would do something like that be it cars, refrigerators, lamps, TV's etc.

jmonroe

stickguy

wasn't there an issue with changing over to soy based insulation or some such? I think Honda had a mess with that, since it was a favorite snack of rodents.

corvette

I seem to recall that, also. Something made the insulation tasty to rodents. Yeah, the copper never went bad, just the insulation around it.

stickguy

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a21933466/does-your-car-have-wiring-that-rodents-think-is-tasty/

stickguy

just saw an ad on the Philly news for the local Genesis dealer, pushing the G70 and all the awards it won. Might be the first ad for that car I can remember seeing.

nyccarguy

Part of being a Chronic Car Buyer is saying goodbye. As you all saw from yesterday’s pic, Carvana came by yesterday and picked up my (now former 2015 Infiniti Q40). I bought it with 7,468 miles and sold it with 55,200 miles.

The process itself was really easy. I’m amazed by technology. A few clicks of the mouse, enter in some information, click yes, pick out a pick up date, & a flat bed come to your house with a check in hand to haul your car away.

As long as the business model is sustainable then it seems like a good one. I was chatting with the driver who said he does pretty much an equal amount of pick ups and drop offs.

I got what I think is a good price ($13,245) for my car. In the letter I got from the dealer saying they “want my trade” and will get me into a “newer car with a full factory warranty at a lesser payment that gets better gas mileage,” that their offer is based on GALVES value of $11,025 for my car. I also checked a couple other websites that give an “instant offer,” but in the end Carvana gave the highest price.

@breld, It seems like you guys in CO ( @Michaell & @jpp75 ) have a lot of one price dealers where you seemingly stalk a vehicle until the price comes down to an acceptable level. Did Carvana have the best price on your current GTI or did they just have the Color/Mileage example that you were looking for?

nyccarguy

The Tacoma did it’s thing yesterday. My son (who turns 13 today, BTW) had a hockey game in West Haven yesterday AM. A friend of his on the team needed a ride, so I took them both and just threw their hockey bags & sticks in the bed.

The game was ugly. Terrible kids on the other team coached by a not nice coach and being raised by bad parents. To tip my hat to them, they were a superior team as far as hockey skills go. They out skated us, out shot us, out stick handled us, and flat out were better than us. They scored their 1st (of 12 goals) 45 seconds into the game. They got 15 penalties during the game including 3 “2 & 10” penalties and 1 game misconduct where a player was ejected with less than 2 minutes to go in the game. The coach never told his players to “let off the gas” when they were clearly destroying us. The parents were cheering like they just won the Stanley Cup after goal #9 + in the 3rd period.

A nice 45 minute ride there, hit an awesome diner with my son for lunch afterwards and a quick 50 minute trip home. The Tacoma drives well on well maintained stretches of road. The adaptive cruise works fantastic.

stickguy

I just checked, and your car is not up yet. They do have 2 recent Q40 additions (last week they had none) listed as coming soon/reserve now. both with about 42K. One listed at $16,700 and the other at $18,200. So they likely are making money on yours.

odd that they are identical other than color (expensive one is black, cheaper silver). They even have a link to the original window sticker (I love that on a used car!) and they were exactly the same price. Wonder why? Hard to imagine color making that much difference.

Edit: NM, figured it out. the cheaper one is RWD, pricier is AWD. And I can't read because the RWD was $36K ad AWD $38 originally (I saw the 8 as a 6).

so deduct for the extra 13,000 miles and assume they list your for $17.500 and probably sell it quick with minimal investment.

ab348

nyccarguy said:

The process itself was really easy. I’m amazed by technology. A few clicks of the mouse, enter in some information, click yes, pick out a pick up date, & a flat bed come to your house with a check in hand to haul your car away.

As long as the business model is sustainable then it seems like a good one. I was chatting with the driver who said he does pretty much an equal amount of pick ups and drop offs.

Is there any inspection involved, or pictures required? How do they differentiate among a meticulously cared-for creampuff, an average used car, and one that has been abused?

stickguy

they take your word for it, and run a carfax, when making the offer. But it is contingent on an inspection before they take the car. On mine, the girl did a basic walk around and took a bunch of pictures. If you look at one of their listings, there is usually a link to the inspection pictures. So as long as you did nor misrepresent the car, they give you the check.

Not sure what happens if they get there and find the interior trashed, and unexpected body damage. I assume they have to deal with the home office and revise the offer, but then the paperwork won't be right (nor the check they bring). So my guess is if you lied about the car, they go back without it.

mine was easier for them, since I took it to the retail location (vending machine) to drop it off.

nyccarguy

ab348 said:

nyccarguy said:

The process itself was really easy. I’m amazed by technology. A few clicks of the mouse, enter in some information, click yes, pick out a pick up date, & a flat bed come to your house with a check in hand to haul your car away.

As long as the business model is sustainable then it seems like a good one. I was chatting with the driver who said he does pretty much an equal amount of pick ups and drop offs.

Is there any inspection involved, or pictures required? How do they differentiate among a meticulously cared-for creampuff, an average used car, and one that has been abused?

When i told them I wanted them to buy my car, I had to upload a picture of the odometer, the registration, my driver's license, & the payoff amount.

The guy came to pick up the car and he took a picture of the odometer, the VIN, and a couple of shots of the outside.

There are 3 choices for the car's condition. I was honest and picked the middle choice. They deducted $500 because I chose that option. I guess if you choose "perfect" and they get to your house and all 4 wheels are curbed, the body panels look like they've been used at the local gun range for target practice, and the windshield is shattered there would be an issue.

The driver explained to me that my car would be taken to their Westport, CT location, then transported with 9 or 10 other cars to another facility where they get repaired and reconditioned. My guess is they will mount & balance 4 new tires as well as replace the front brake pads & rotors, then give it a detail and throw it up for sale. The rear bumper could use a wet sand and re-spray. I'm curious to see what they advertise it for and how long it takes them to sell it.

stickguy

my guess is $17,500, and not long! Even if they do those repairs and the detail, they still are only in on it for mid-14's, so $3k gross profit.

jmonroe1

About my Carvana experience:

When the guy showed up to get Mrs. j's near perfect 2012 Legacy Limited with the 3.6 engine which had just turned 36K miles, he had a reprinted check from Carvana ready to be given to me. That surprised me and I asked what if he felt the car was not in the condition as I described it? He said they would not give me the check and would have to arrange for a technician and / or a body guy to come out to look it over. That would start the process over again and that could take a week or two to happen.

FWIW, Carvana gave me $12,751 for it (the dealer dug in at ($10,500) and IIRC, they sold it for $16,200. And they sold it almost instantly when it was listed a little more than 2 weeks after they stole it from me.

EDIT: the check was preprinted not reprinted.

jmonroe

pensfan83

When I was looking for an Integra or Prelude last year I set my BaT account to screen for Hondas or Acuras and in the intervening months since closing on my purchase I've received various notifications of auctions. This one stuck out because it's the same year as mine, in a color combo I had at the top of the list, and has almost 160K less miles.....for substantially more than I paid for mine however. I guess the market is still strong for late 90's/early 2000's Honda/Acura models, makes me curious whether mine would fetch at least what I paid.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-honda-prelude-6/

nyccarguy

pensfan83 said:

When I was looking for an Integra or Prelude last year I set my BaT account to screen for Hondas or Acuras and in the intervening months since closing on my purchase I've received various notifications of auctions. This one stuck out because it's the same year as mine, in a color combo I had at the top of the list, and has almost 160K less miles.....for substantially more than I paid for mine however. I guess the market is still strong for late 90's/early 2000's Honda/Acura models, makes me curious whether mine would fetch at least what I paid.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-honda-prelude-6/

That color is just awful.

tjc78

nyccarguy said:

pensfan83 said:

When I was looking for an Integra or Prelude last year I set my BaT account to screen for Hondas or Acuras and in the intervening months since closing on my purchase I've received various notifications of auctions. This one stuck out because it's the same year as mine, in a color combo I had at the top of the list, and has almost 160K less miles.....for substantially more than I paid for mine however. I guess the market is still strong for late 90's/early 2000's Honda/Acura models, makes me curious whether mine would fetch at least what I paid.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-honda-prelude-6/

That color is just awful.

Don’t hold back Bradd, tell us how you feel

pensfan83

I like it when paired with the tan interior, which was only available for the first 2 years of the 5th gen. Otherwise I like San Marino Red, Milano Red, or Electron Blue Pearl, which was only available in '01.

stickguy

I like that color.

nyccarguy

tjc78 said:

nyccarguy said:

pensfan83 said:

When I was looking for an Integra or Prelude last year I set my BaT account to screen for Hondas or Acuras and in the intervening months since closing on my purchase I've received various notifications of auctions. This one stuck out because it's the same year as mine, in a color combo I had at the top of the list, and has almost 160K less miles.....for substantially more than I paid for mine however. I guess the market is still strong for late 90's/early 2000's Honda/Acura models, makes me curious whether mine would fetch at least what I paid.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-honda-prelude-6/

That color is just awful.

Don’t hold back Bradd, tell us how you feel

When I was searching for Prelude leftovers back in 2002, I knew the pickings would be on the slim side since I wanted a stick. The dealer closest to my parent's house had (6) Automatics.

(1) Red Type SH or White Type SH
(2) Black Type SH
(3) Electron Blue Pearl Type SH
(4) Red Base or White Base
(5) Black Base
(6) Green Type SH (I think they changed the color green & it came with the black interior, so it was palatable)
(7) Silver Type SH or Silver Base

pensfan83

Red was not a the top of my list given the well known fading issues of Hondas of that period. However this one came with a full, well done respray so I relented.

tjc78

I like the Prelude in red. It just works on that car.

The dark green is period especially with the beige interior. I prefer Honda’s dark green to what Chrysler or Ford had at the time.

fintail

I just throw bags and sticks in the wagon

I am sure it would rustle some people somewhere, but hockey parents can be the worst. No youth sport seems to conjure vicarious living like hockey - brings out the boorish shouting sports dad and screeching Medusa mom like nothing I have seen. In my ideal world, parents would stay at home and the kids would play for themselves.

nyccarguy said:

The Tacoma did it’s thing yesterday. My son (who turns 13 today, BTW) had a hockey game in West Haven yesterday AM. A friend of his on the team needed a ride, so I took them both and just threw their hockey bags & sticks in the bed.

The game was ugly. Terrible kids on the other team coached by a not nice coach and being raised by bad parents. To tip my hat to them, they were a superior team as far as hockey skills go. They out skated us, out shot us, out stick handled us, and flat out were better than us. They scored their 1st (of 12 goals) 45 seconds into the game. They got 15 penalties during the game including 3 “2 & 10” penalties and 1 game misconduct where a player was ejected with less than 2 minutes to go in the game. The coach never told his players to “let off the gas” when they were clearly destroying us. The parents were cheering like they just won the Stanley Cup after goal #9 + in the 3rd period.

A nice 45 minute ride there, hit an awesome diner with my son for lunch afterwards and a quick 50 minute trip home. The Tacoma drives well on well maintained stretches of road. The adaptive cruise works fantastic.

nyccarguy

fintail said:

I just throw bags and sticks in the wagon

I am sure it would rustle some people somewhere, but hockey parents can be the worst. No youth sport seems to conjure vicarious living like hockey - brings out the boorish shouting sports dad and screeching Medusa mom like nothing I have seen. In my ideal world, parents would stay at home and the kids would play for themselves.

nyccarguy said:

The Tacoma did it’s thing yesterday. My son (who turns 13 today, BTW) had a hockey game in West Haven yesterday AM. A friend of his on the team needed a ride, so I took them both and just threw their hockey bags & sticks in the bed.

The game was ugly. Terrible kids on the other team coached by a not nice coach and being raised by bad parents. To tip my hat to them, they were a superior team as far as hockey skills go. They out skated us, out shot us, out stick handled us, and flat out were better than us. They scored their 1st (of 12 goals) 45 seconds into the game. They got 15 penalties during the game including 3 “2 & 10” penalties and 1 game misconduct where a player was ejected with less than 2 minutes to go in the game. The coach never told his players to “let off the gas” when they were clearly destroying us. The parents were cheering like they just won the Stanley Cup after goal #9 + in the 3rd period.

A nice 45 minute ride there, hit an awesome diner with my son for lunch afterwards and a quick 50 minute trip home. The Tacoma drives well on well maintained stretches of road. The adaptive cruise works fantastic.

That's what I really enjoy about our program. We are a Tier 4 organization and my kids both play on the "B" Team. We all hope that our kids can play up through High School if they want to.

xwesx

tjc78 said:

t least you get to drive your new car.... I haven’t touched mine in over a week!

You could try trading it with your wife after she parks at the train transfer lot. See how long it takes her to find "her" car.

Okay, maybe that's a really bad idea.

breld

nyccarguy said:

@breld, It seems like you guys in CO ( @Michaell & @jpp75 ) have a lot of one price dealers where you seemingly stalk a vehicle until the price comes down to an acceptable level. Did Carvana have the best price on your current GTI or did they just have the Color/Mileage example that you were looking for?

This GTI purchase definitely was more driven by the particular vehicle - SE w/plaid and manual in a good color. But the price was indeed comparable to local listings, if not better. As it turned out, the Carvana delivery experience was positive. I think the hardest part was deciding to purchase the vehicle and having to wait a couple weeks for delivery - I'm more used to immediate gratification!

One frustrating thing with Carvana was the registration process - I opted for the self-registration option and to transfer my existing plates from the Miata to the GTI. I even followed up to make sure all that was in process and I was assured I would be receiving in the mail the registration documents and a check to refund the registration fees charged. Then last week I get a FedEx with new plates. I followed up with them knowing there wasn't anything to do about it - they apologized and acknowledged that there were all kinds of notes on the account to do it as a self-registration, but they were just ignored.

breld

nyccarguy said:

The Tacoma did it’s thing yesterday. My son (who turns 13 today, BTW) had a hockey game in West Haven yesterday AM. A friend of his on the team needed a ride, so I took them both and just threw their hockey bags & sticks in the bed.

The game was ugly. Terrible kids on the other team coached by a not nice coach and being raised by bad parents. To tip my hat to them, they were a superior team as far as hockey skills go. They out skated us, out shot us, out stick handled us, and flat out were better than us. They scored their 1st (of 12 goals) 45 seconds into the game. They got 15 penalties during the game including 3 “2 & 10” penalties and 1 game misconduct where a player was ejected with less than 2 minutes to go in the game. The coach never told his players to “let off the gas” when they were clearly destroying us. The parents were cheering like they just won the Stanley Cup after goal #9 + in the 3rd period.

A nice 45 minute ride there, hit an awesome diner with my son for lunch afterwards and a quick 50 minute trip home. The Tacoma drives well on well maintained stretches of road. The adaptive cruise works fantastic.

That game experience is horrible - I've certainly experienced various levels of that sort of behavior in my kids' sports.

But nice on the Tacoma - again, I kinda want one.

breld

nyccarguy said:

pensfan83 said:

When I was looking for an Integra or Prelude last year I set my BaT account to screen for Hondas or Acuras and in the intervening months since closing on my purchase I've received various notifications of auctions. This one stuck out because it's the same year as mine, in a color combo I had at the top of the list, and has almost 160K less miles.....for substantially more than I paid for mine however. I guess the market is still strong for late 90's/early 2000's Honda/Acura models, makes me curious whether mine would fetch at least what I paid.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-honda-prelude-6/

That color is just awful.

Really? I happen to like that color - almost a signature color for that era of Prelude, IMO.

nyccarguy

breld said:

nyccarguy said:

pensfan83 said:

When I was looking for an Integra or Prelude last year I set my BaT account to screen for Hondas or Acuras and in the intervening months since closing on my purchase I've received various notifications of auctions. This one stuck out because it's the same year as mine, in a color combo I had at the top of the list, and has almost 160K less miles.....for substantially more than I paid for mine however. I guess the market is still strong for late 90's/early 2000's Honda/Acura models, makes me curious whether mine would fetch at least what I paid.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-honda-prelude-6/

That color is just awful.

Really? I happen to like that color - almost a signature color for that era of Prelude, IMO.

It was the Green with the Ivory Interior (I know most, if not all of you detest black guts) that I just couldn't stomach.

nyccarguy

breld said:

nyccarguy said:

The Tacoma did it’s thing yesterday. My son (who turns 13 today, BTW) had a hockey game in West Haven yesterday AM. A friend of his on the team needed a ride, so I took them both and just threw their hockey bags & sticks in the bed.

The game was ugly. Terrible kids on the other team coached by a not nice coach and being raised by bad parents. To tip my hat to them, they were a superior team as far as hockey skills go. They out skated us, out shot us, out stick handled us, and flat out were better than us. They scored their 1st (of 12 goals) 45 seconds into the game. They got 15 penalties during the game including 3 “2 & 10” penalties and 1 game misconduct where a player was ejected with less than 2 minutes to go in the game. The coach never told his players to “let off the gas” when they were clearly destroying us. The parents were cheering like they just won the Stanley Cup after goal #9 + in the 3rd period.

A nice 45 minute ride there, hit an awesome diner with my son for lunch afterwards and a quick 50 minute trip home. The Tacoma drives well on well maintained stretches of road. The adaptive cruise works fantastic.

That game experience is horrible - I've certainly experienced various levels of that sort of behavior in my kids' sports.

But nice on the Tacoma - again, I kinda want one.

Don't go trading in your GTI on one just yet. It drives nicely for what it is, an old school, body on frame, truck. I like it a lot so far. I got into our Pilot on Saturday and it felt like a sports car. This morning I got into my Dad's Yukon to park it and it felt Lexus smooth.

xwesx

tjc78 said:

@jmonroe1 ....
I think I maximized every inch I had here with a 40”!

Hah! Yes you did!

xwesx

tjc78 said:

Picture of the delivery...

Huh. That's a neat looking little abode. Looks like it took a little damage on the front eaves there, and that trailer is perhaps maxed out! The flex that shows through the whole mid section of the right side makes me think it is sitting on permafrost here in Alaska.

pensfan83

I wouldn't say I detest black interiors, I just really like how that combo looks as well as its notoriety in the Prelude community. I literally pored through hundreds of listings last year and can count on one hand the green/ivory combinations with only two in a condition that was acceptable. One unfortunately was on the west coast and there was one in North Carolina that popped up but the dealer botched things.

fintail

Were your kids playing a team at a similar level? Some parents need to understand the game can be solely about fun, and not just a means (often used by parents who can already afford a college fund) to eke out a scholarship often at some distant unknown school by playing a game - that seems to be the focus here nowadays, scholarships, and parents with unreasonable ambitions. I don't recall it being as insane when I was a kid.

I am involved with adult rec hockey, and there are some of "those guys" too, probably the same shouty dads on Sunday mornings are out at night overdoing it against other washed up old men like myself who just want to skate and play around. Note to middle aged blowhards - there are no scouts in the stands, your parents don't care, and may someone have mercy on you when you injure someone.

Going to from a car to that somewhat industrial Toyota pickup might be like going from the Escalade to my E wagon. Talk about different worlds.

nyccarguy said:

That's what I really enjoy about our program. We are a Tier 4 organization and my kids both play on the "B" Team. We all hope that our kids can play up through High School if they want to.