Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

guss

You better hold onto that coin.

Are BMW's really that expensive to keep? I have always heard the stories of $200 oil changes but never having owned a BMW I have no real experience.

My wife(the mini-van driver) has always wanted a 3 series coupe. There is no way she can have one as a daily driver so I was thinking an older one, like an '00 or '01 for a third car. Of course we will have to work out the little problem that she does not drive a stick. No way I am buying a BMW and it not being a stick.

A nice E30 convertible is more likely though , probably a bit cheaper too.

corvette

He was being sarcastic about the $750 oil change... It's no different than a normal car except they specify synthetic due to the VANOS variable valve timing (and longer service intervals).

I think that variable valve timing tends to be harder on oils in general.

grandtotal

I think that variable valve timing tends to be harder on oils in general.

Is that just gut feel or do you have any evidence to back it up? If it is so, is it because of the variable valve timing mechanism or because VVT allows more performance to be extracted from an engine leading to the potential for more oil fatigue?

kyfdx

The owner is a fairly well-known member of a BMW-specific forum... He has access to more than one car.. I doubt there are any issues with the car.. One-owner with a good history..

I haven't heard of any particular problems with ZHP models, other than the clutch-delay-valve, which can easily be remedied...

Q.... you are right... I figured it to be pricy, as well... It might be the best one out there, though...

corvette

Anecdotal evidence only... Most of GM's (non-VVT) truck engines go around 12,500 miles according to the computer in the car... The VVT pushrod V6 in my G6 is on track to call for an oil change at 6,000 miles.

I find it interesting that Honda's four-cylinder cars (with an oil life monitor similar to GM's) usually call for changes around 8,500 miles, but their V6 cars and trucks don't go as far (I've heard averages around 6,000 miles). Apples to oranges, plus all of Honda's engines are OHC and VVT.

woodyww

if I should trade my 2007 Mazdaspeed3 for a 2003 BMW 540i 6 speed

I like the Topaz Blue, & usually silver too. The 540i has highish miles? A V8 bmw w/no warranty might scare me off, but I'm sure you know what to expect.

My vote is to wait for a nice ZHP (or e39 530i?). Something with a 6 cyl., with less miles. And somehow $15K for a 6 y.o. 540i, if it has 70-80K+ miles, doesn't really grab me as a good "value" (?).

I'm sure I'd love the car tho......don't let me talk you out of it if it's a nice one.

grandtotal

Given that these oil life monitors are not examining the oil condition and are only counting start-ups, revs, temperatures and throttle openings etc. it says to me that the manufacturers preset a certain amount of oil 'usage' before a change is necessary.

So, for some reason the manufacturers expect certain engines to be harder on oil than others, unless the pattern of usage on the vehicles you have observed is markedly different.

roadburner

My vote is to wait for a nice ZHP (or e39 530i?). Something with a 6 cyl., with less miles. And somehow $15K for a 6 y.o. 540i, if it has 70-80K+ miles, doesn't really grab me as a good "value" (?).

Well, I'm not in any hurry, but the 2003 540i 6 speeds are kind of unique and rare as they sport(pun intended) the M5 bodykit along with the rest of the SP trappings. $15 is actually a bit on the low side; most nice 540 sticks are trading in the high teens- even with 70K-80K miles on them. A 530i SP with a stick would make a nice cruiser and I also wouldn't mind an E36 M3 sedan.

oregonboy

All this talk about manual BMWs... so I have to post this Craigslist 5-series, manual wagon (!), which must be pretty cool, (for those of us who appreciate such things), IF it is well done. (He wants a lot of money for it.)

BMW e34 M530 wagon

tifighter

How many miles on this 540? I must have missed that somewhere...

anonymousposts

Yes it's the one we spent hours cleaning. It just scares me that the first BMW I might buy will be out of warranty. If it still had a year left on the warranty I would be 110% in. Just that little nagging issue .... every little noise freaks me out. I think I felt something weird with the engine a couple of times right after starting .... but is it all in my head because I am paranoid???

And there are so many choices. I could not buy anything and just drive a demo ..... but having your own car that you can keep is so much more personal than a demo you MIGHT keep 30 days at the most ..... I don't know. Gee is all for the 3-series, maybe I should just go with it and transfer the blame to him if it turns out to be a money pit?

That craigslist wagon scares me.

roadburner

How many miles on this 540? I must have missed that somewhere...

77K

guss

He wants to trade the 530 wag0n for an Avant. I always thought Audi made the best looking wagons. Throw in the all wheel drive and it don't get much better than that.

roadburner

It just scares me that the first BMW I might buy will be out of warranty.

Jeeze, just relax. The two main groups that perpetuate the "BMWs cost a bazillion dollars to fix" myth are:
1. Envious fools with a "sour grapes" mentality.
2. Shady BMW dealers who are trying to scare customers into a new or CPO car.

Speaking of fools, on one of the Mazdaspeed boards(where opposable thumbs are a rarity) some doofus was telling me how he had a friend with a 2008 3er and the oil service cost $175. I asked why the car wasn't covered by BMW's free maintenance; he said it was but the dealer put the price of the service on the invoice to show what it would cost out of warranty. Hmmmm, my dealer never does that, but then they charge less than 60 percent of that price to do the same service. If it makes you feel any better, my first truly fast BMW(top speed of over 140) was a 1988 M6 that had just gone out of warranty. The original owner dropped it like a hot potato in 1992 fearing exorbitant running costs- and I gladly picked it up. The only thing that actually was pricey was the engine- a modified version of one of BMW's successful competition engines. The short block alone cost $15K back then. Well, I autocrossed it, tracked it, won countless Stoplight Grand Prix, and in general had a ball with the sled. There were no budget-busting disasters. I only sold it because my kid's car seat wouldn't fit in the rear bucket seat. I still miss it...

jimbres

Great post! Thanks!

corvette

If you have a good dealer and/or a good independent nearby, it can make all the difference. Most non-specialty shops don't realize that BMW specs synthetic oil, has special coolant (and PS fluid, I think), and don't understand about flushing the brake fluid...

Love the blue color on that 540, by the way!

roadburner

If you have a good dealer and/or a good independent nearby, it can make all the difference. Most non-specialty shops don't realize that BMW specs synthetic oil, has special coolant (and PS fluid, I think), and don't understand about flushing the brake fluid...

You nailed it. I'm very fortunate in that I have access to a good dealer as well as a good indie shop.

woodyww

It just scares me that the first BMW I might buy will be out of warranty......And there are so many choices.....

The 3-series are usually mostly, or very, reliable. But like corvette said, "if you have a good dealer and/or a good independent nearby, it can make all the difference". Do you? A really good indie bmw shop nearby? I'd go to one or 2, have them check the car out, etc.

OTOH, paying somewhat more for a low mileage "cream puff" bmw w/warranty can be a better idea.......you don't have to buy the 1st bmw you get interested in......

woodyww

groups that perpetuate the "BMWs cost a bazillion dollars to fix" myth

It "can" happen. Owning an 8-series, maybe? Any 12 cyl. bmw? I almost bought a used V12 e32 once, but came to my senses just in time, beautiful car tho.

OTOH: I remember when my "ex" panicked into selling an early e36 4cyl., when it got to almost 50K miles. There was nothing wrong with it, at all. I'm guessing a fairly low maintenence bmw. Just the "bmw panic" that roadburner talks about set in, for no reason, except people were warning her about "high bmw maintenence costs".....(for a 4 cyl. very basic car??)

Maybe anybody buying their 1st used bmw should drive 20 cars, of different series &/or vintages, do some research, & then let "nature take it's course"......

corvette

Got the G6 back today. All seems to be well. The transmission shop replaced a spring in the torque converter clutch (apparently this didn't require tearing down the transmission). I'm guessing it was a small, inexpensive part.

tifighter

I must admit that as a guy who has had 3 Audis, I think "bmw panic" is amusing...I always thought of bmws as a more reliable option. My Z3 was a very solid car. Alfa Romeo & Jaguar guys must think the idea of "bmw panic" is REALLY amusing...

anonymousposts

that are on my radar right now would be a new Accord, a new TSX, this 3-series, or a different 3-series. There is an independent shop less than a mile from my house. I need to check them out. BMW charges $100 for the oil change on this car. Still reasonable IMO since you only do it every 10-15,000 miles.

corvette

The new TSX with the V6 seems like the old TL to me (not necessarily a bad thing, but leaves a hole where the four-door Integra and first-gen TSX once were). Acura sure picked a bad time to move upmarket.

fezo

That's a point I was thinking about. If bmw panic is bad I don't even want to think about Audi panic! Must be like VW panic with even more expensive parts envisioned....

js06gv

I haven't heard anything about a TSX V6. They have always been 4 cyl. The car was just redesigned but retained the 4. Is there an additional model on the way?

traindriver

The 3-series are usually mostly, or very, reliable.

How about the 528/530/535, 06 or 07 vintage? Problem areas? Things to look for? A 5 might be on my shopping list this summer....

lilengineerboy

How about the 528/530/535, 06 or 07 vintage? Problem areas? Things to look for? A 5 might be on my shopping list this summer....

I think the previous generation 3s and 5s required some nurturing with their cooling systems which were sensitive to neglect or incorrect fluids. I don't believe those had the crappy plastic impeller waterpumps though, I think that was the generation prior still.

traindriver

Please clarify which gen 5 you are speaking of. I consider the 04 to 09 gen to be "current" -- am I wrong? Were you saying the 03 and older were sensitive to neglect and incorrect fluids? Or am I incorrect on my "gens"?

fintail

Not a chronic buyer, but this evening I received an email from my mother:

"The Taurus bit the dust and I now have a Toyota Corolla.

Love, Mom"

I had to call her...she bought a dark blue CPO 07 LE, 20K miles, moderately equipped (ABS, CD changer, auto lights and polarized rear view mirror (standard?). she paid 13K...I doubt she negotiated very hard as she's terrible at doing so on anything over $20. But she'll dicker over a quarter at a yard sale.

The tranny in the Taurus apparently started slipping, she took it to her old school independent mechanic and he said it was going to be gone soon - it would shift irregularly or refuse to find a gear about half the time she'd try to drive it. The dealer strangely gave her a grand in trade - 00 with about 80K on it. She's always liked the Camry and Avalon, but I guess a similar Camry wasn't worth the extra 5K for her.

She said she likes it...says it is quiet and smooth. she likes the backlit gauges and says the stereo is better than the old Ford. I have read the Corolla doesn't have great seats...I hope she doesn't have problems.

So, it looks like she won't be buying a used Lucerne or a new Fusion anytime soon.

corvette

2010 Acura TSX V6

roadburner

It "can" happen. Owning an 8-series, maybe? Any 12 cyl. bmw? I almost bought a used V12 e32 once, but came to my senses just in time, beautiful car tho.

That's true, but I was talking about the more common 3ers and 5ers. That said, a nice 850i wouldn't scare me off; I know where to get parts at reasonable prices and I can do quite a bit of my own wrenching.

roadburner

I looked at the 540i again last night. They now have it in the used car showroom. It is very, VERY clean. The underhood area is a bit grimy, but an afternoon spent with Simple Green and some Zymol Detail would soon fix that. I looked under the oil filler cap and there was no sludge like you would find in a neglected M62. In fact, the valvetrain looked almost as clean as the valvetrain in my 318ti. I was surprised by how much room there was between the V8 and the radiator; it appears to be much easier to work on than a six-cylinder. As a matter of fact, there's no question but that I'd tackle the 100K radiator/expansion tank/water pump/t-stat/fan replacement myself; the job wouldn't take more than an afternoon. The trunk lid tool kit is missing about $75 worth of tools, but that's no biggie. It has the much-maligned BMW/Nakamichi CD changer in the glove box, so I'd pull it out and install a DICE iPod integator in it's place.
It's probably best that I didn't drive it...

anonymousposts

with any intention of keeping it past the warranty period. And that's best case, Audi and VW scare me more than almost any other make.

rayainsw

I have looked – hard – at BMW V8s.
540 \ 545 \ 550.

As I posted here late last year, I bought a
2009 Pontiac G8 GT.

And as I approach 4,500 miles in my Pontiac G8,
I am again struck by how much intrinsic goodness –
dynamically
- Pontiac \ Holden has packed into a $30K RWD 4DR sedan.

I will immediately add that I am
most emphatically ** NOT ** suggesting that
a BMW V8 offers nothing more than this Pontiac.

I am saying that, dynamically, the acceleration
[ numbers and feel ],
the ride & handling are very, very good.

In my driving, I find the G8 GT [ w/Sport Pkg –
19” wheels \ tires ] to drive very BMW-ish.

I am not tempted by a new or a used BMW V8.

Today.
- Ray
Not in the market again, yet . . .

roadburner

I think that the G8 GT is a great car. If you could get it with a manual I'd consider one(yes, I know the GXP has a manual option, but if I had $40K to spend a CPO 335i or an M3 ZCP would top my shopping list). The thing is, I've been driving, tracking, and wrenching on BMWs since 1983- so I know where to get parts at good prices and who to consult when I've got a problem. I'm getting too set in my ways to learn all about another brand... :P
Speaking of which, dealing with the various Mazdaspeed 3 on-line forums was a real eye-opener; it seems that every other thread turns into a full-scale flame war. Using proper grammar or spelling is frowned upon, and common sense or logical arguments are nowhere to be found.

boomchek

Good call on your mother's part to buy a Corolla instead of dumping money into the Taurus.

The Corolla is safer, and more efficent too. Should last her forever.

boomchek

I'd be more scared of any Land Rover past warranty period. They seem like very finnicky vehicles, but Audi and VW would come in at a close 2nd.

tifighter

I'd be more scared of any Land Rover past warranty period. They seem like very finnicky vehicles, but Audi and VW would come in at a close 2nd.

No kidding. There's a neighbor of mine with a 99-ish Range Rover, and it makes me squirmy just watching him drive it around. Ticking time bomb, with 20 inch chrome wheels.

Love my Triumph motorcycle, though...

roadburner

There's a neighbor of mine with a 99-ish Range Rover, and it makes me squirmy just watching him drive it around.

I've always liked the Discovery, but all the horror stories have kept me from taking the plunge. Of course, at present when I signal a left turn in my 1999 Wrangler the odometer and radio frequency display blink in unison...

Love my Triumph motorcycle, though...

How is your ST doing?

fintail

Oh yeah, and the AC crapped out last summer. That car, although it looked decent enough, had many little defects as time went on, things that were never talked about, but were there. At least it was cheap when new. I suspect she'll tire of the Corolla and replace it long before it dies. She gets 5-10 years out of a car usually before she wants to move on.

Speaking of cheap, I have noticed used high end cars continue to depreciate to nothingness in this economy. I have noticed a few 06 E55 for 35K, and 06 CLS500 for around 30K. I am not actually tempted, but "what if" thoughts cross my mind now and then...a drawn out car payment is what reels me back to my senses.

tifighter

when I signal a left turn in my 1999 Wrangler the odometer and radio frequency display blink in unison...

Which takes me back to Audis...my second one would turn the brights on whenever I signaled right.

How is your ST doing?

Very nice...up to a whopping 6500 miles now. Just put a Corbin on it last week and took it for a longer ride last Saturday. Nice improvement...

How is the Speedy treating you?

roadburner

How is the Speedy treating you?

No problems. The weather and semi-retirement have kept me from riding it as much as I'd like. I'm thinking of installing a set of LSL risers; the sportbike ergonomics are a bit extreme for my 52 year old bones...

boomchek

Speaking of high end deals I'm very tempted by local MB ad specials like this one:

2009 E300 4Matic, Avantgarde Pkg, Free $7500 of options (incl Navi, HID, and more), for $599/month with $5k down. 39 month lease.

With $0 down and taxes it's about $850/month. Pretty steep, but I think it's great value for a new E Class, although it's not even the E350, but the smaller 3.0L motor, AND right before the E shows up with new skin.

At least it has all the goodies, and AWD.

Anyways, I snapped back to reality because we first need to buy a home, and now is the time to do so, instead of day dreaming about cars.

grandtotal

Anyways, I snapped back to reality because we first need to buy a home, and now is the time to do so, instead of day dreaming about cars.

I think you'd do well to wait 12-18 months then take another look at what the market is doing.

fintail

There's the key - the W211 is at the end of its road, so sweet deals will be out there. When the W203 was being phased out, I saw leases on those for $299.

We don't have the E300 here. It's odd that MB has a slightly different lineup between US and Canada - but Canadian MB prices are so jacked up, maybe not surprising.

I am in the same boat, I am waiting for the housing market to bottom out and then make a move on a little place. It was so overheated here for several years, I think there is still a bit of room to fall. I suspect Van will hit bottom a year or two after the Olympics.

boomchek

That's what everyone is saying...to wait until after the Olympics.

The problem is we need a 2 bedroom place, and we're in one bedroom, and I'd rather even buy an older 2 bedroom and pay same amount for mortgage as I'm paying for rent. Basically I'm not moving unless it's into something that I'm buying.

As for the lease deals, you guys do have it good down there. I always see cheap lease deals especially on luxury cars. Much cheaper than here.

fintail

I am in the same boat, no moving until I buy. I have a decent little place with rent that's considered a bargain around here. Had I bought a place 3 years ago, I'd be upside down now with no signs of recovery...so it looks like my patience paid off for once. I suspect I'll buy when I sense a bottom, and drive the E55 until it gets tired or bad luck intervenes. You're the only one here who has seen it in person...I think it has a decently long life ahead.

We've had screamer ads lately for a $399 lease on a Genesis. Not what I'd be after right now, but a bargain for some, no doubt.

boomchek

I think it has a decently long life ahead.

No doubt. There's still plenty of W124s, and W123s driving around. The only question is whether the W210s will hold up as well, or hold up without breaking the bank. Plus it seems like you look after your vehicles fairly well.

$399 on a Genesis sounds good too. It might pull in some people who would be looking at a Camcord.

On a side note, a co worker got a new black C63 AMG for his 20something birthday gift a few months ago. I always admire the car, and compliment him on it. He told me I can take a ride anytime I like. I'd like more of a drive. :shades:

anonymousposts

into the Genesis. We are going to test drive one this weekend just to see how far Hyundai has come. I came to a realization that you can get a similar year/mileage 5-series for th same price as the 3-series. It's worth a though.................

fintail

I think some of the cosmetics on W210s won't age as well, but I am not aware of any huge mechanical issues. The cars are much more complex than a 123 or 124, so more things will eventually be problems, or just become rattles. Just keep the car maintained. I do know that era E55 is considered to be among the most reliable and easy to live with AMG cars.

The local MB dealer here has had a C63 sitting around for several weeks, no takers in this economy. Those are going to be seriously tempting when they depreciate to my level. Seeing how cheap I have seen 05 C55s for - it won't be too far off. One of those in an uncommon color and option spec would be hard for me to resist.

A coworker of mine's mother leased an 08 Accord EX-L, fully loaded. The payment is something in the mid 400s...seems kind of crazy.