Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen

Now you've lost me.

Ok, 4 doors, check. Adds another piece to the puzzle.

But then you go and throw 2 Camrys, a Lexus GS, and an MDX at us when one of you requirements is fun-to-drive??

By the way, I know its not widespread, but the tranny troubles with that generation TL would keep me away, personally. Especially with all the power of the Type S routing through it.

by the way, if you are willing to consider a 4-cyl Camry, I would certainly expand your BMW search to include the 325.

british_rover

I would only ever consider a manual TL never an automatic. That car is just no good with an auto and you have the trans problems to worry about.

I think all the Type-S TLs were manuals anyway. Or maybe certain years of the TL Type-S were manuals.

corvette

That gen of TL (1998?-2003) wasn't offered with a manual. The base model and the Type-S were all auto, all the time, or at least until the tranny fails.

anonymousposts

We have two fun-to-drive cars and while fun-to-drive is high on the list I really need something fairly reliable for me to commute in daily. It also needs to be a decent family car. The Camry 02-06 is more so on the list for interior quality and the 07-09 is on the list because I like the outside. The MDX is a great family ride and I had a 2003 before that we loved until Gee put 20" wheels on it. When we realized we hated the 20" wheels, our infinite wisdom told us it would be easier to get rid of the car than put the stock rims back on it?!.

I would consider an Audi A3 manual but the reliability concerns me. Today Gee suggested the A3 or a CRV 07+. I know we are all over the place but this tends to happen when we start car hunting. If it doesn't fall into our lap we go back and forth until we come across a spectacular deal.

qbrozen

yup, as vette said, that generation was all auto.
Only the '04+ TLs offered manuals.

grandtotal

If it doesn't fall into our lap we go back and forth until we come across a spectacular deal.

So, the deal is more important than the car?

If Camry is on the list then any V6 Camry would probably tick enough boxes within your budget. Of course if your budget is flexible...

kyfdx

330i or 9-3..

Everything else on your list is derivative of what you have.... and, not what you really want..

To go Euro, you have to give up the idea of Honda/Toyo reliability.. Just drink the Kool-Aid... it'll be okay... Life is short..

roadburner

Don't know on the M3.. it was out front on the used car line... 6-speed.. couldn't even tell you the year, though it looked to be a late E46...

OK, so I called Village about the M3. The sales guy tells me that it's an '03, they are cleaning it up, and they are fitting two new rear tires- and they haven't put a price on it yet. Then he asks, "You interested in buying it?" I almost said, "No, I just call every dealer that has a used M3 on the lot; I want to make sure that they all go to good homes."
I'm calling again tomorrow, as they allegedly will have an asking price by then. Here's hoping that the only options are Xenons, H-K, and the cold weather package...

kyfdx

Good luck with that... .probably has a lot more.. It looks great for an '03, though....

I think HK was standard on M3s...... It was standard on the 330i for most of the E46 run... (option on 325i)

roadburner

I think HK was standard on M3s...... It was standard on the 330i for most of the E46 run... (option on 325i)

It may be. I still regret not jumping on tha2004 Titanium/Imola I found that only had Xenons, H-K and 19" wheels. No sunroof, no power seats... Perfect- for me, anyway.

anonymousposts

We already have a RWD nice mostly sporty sedan in the Lexus. The Prelude is a sporty coupe ... what's missing is a small wagon or utility. Is there such a thing as a fun-to-drive wagon or sedan? BMW wagons are out there but then we get back to the price issue. I've heard a lot of people are unhappy with their X3's. Thought about a CRV but seems that the 07's had a differential issue and the new ones are way expensive .. might as well get a BMW.

corvette

The '07 CR-Vs had some sort of noise issue with the diff or AWD system, I think it was corrected by changing the fluid. I've read several posts about an unfixable vibration that Honda calls a "harmonic tingle" on the current generation of CR-Vs.

british_rover

I didn't even pay attention to the year I am spacey this week.

I agree with kyfdx go look at a 9-3. You can buy 2007 anniversary editions with the six year 100,000 CPO warranty for mid-high teens now depending on the mileage.

210 hp turbocharged 4 cylinder and mid 30s mpg with a manual on the highway. An automatic gives you low 30s.

2007 models got six speed manuals as standard equipment too. 2006 and under 9-3s were five speeds unless they were an Aero and you don't want the Aero V6 motor.

The anniversary edition gave you all the good stuff from the Aero (Nicer interior, nicer seats, more leather, nicer leather, better wheels, little spoiler, better sound system etc.) but without that Turbo V6. I would rather have the lighter more efficient 210 hp 4 cylinder then the big heavy inefficient 255 V6.

oregonboy

what's missing is a small wagon or utility. Is there such a thing as a fun-to-drive wagon or sedan?


Have you considered the Subaru XT, either the Outback or the Forester? It was even available (for a short time) with a manual transmission!

Subaru

(It bugs me when they take the interior photos with the steering wheel upside-down) :mad:

woodyww

Would you ever really buy a bmw? If you want one, you need to focus on that, IMO. The saab is easy to rule out, reliability, I'd get an Audi way before a saab. ("Sob" is what you do when the warranty runs out on a Saab). Camry???? More boring than the honda you just sold. TL, fine, but how many accords have you already owned?

My list: bmw 3, lexus GS, or MDX. I can't remember your current fleet, but if you don't have an SUV or wagon already, that's what I'd get.....

british_rover

Oh god not an Audi.

Seriously an Audi out of warranty scares me much more then any Saab ever would. The saabs are relatively simple compared to an Audi. Parts prices are much more reasonable and depending on your area finding a good independent saab mechanic is much easier then a good Audi one.

Pick your poison Audi is either much less relaible then a Saab or the other way around.

consumer reports says one thing

and JD Powers says the exact opposite

CR is trying to predict reliability of 2010 models while JD Powers is saying what 2006 models are doing. There were a lot of changes to the 9-3 in particular between 2006 and just 2007 so that explains some of it. The 9-5 got a few changes over the past three years and the least reliable model the 9-7X was dropped for 2010.

Interesting on the CR report it says the 9-5 is the worst model for model year 2010. I guess CR knows something I don't because as far as I know there won't be a 2010 9-5 and when the 9-5 does come out for the 2011 MY it will be an all new model.

pp2009pp

The economy is such that I have never had a BMW sales person not offer a test drive. In fact, they have been particularly accommodating all along.

From what I understand used cars are particularly profitable to boot. If you had one who walked away from you without that, that would be unbelievable.

Although the Q5 is supposedly in very short supply, even the Audi salesperson was anxious to have me try out everything and then did any number of follow up phone calls. Ditto other premium manufacturers. In fact, the only people who seemed to be fat and happy were the Prius guys.

:P

That must be saying something about the future of gas prices.

roadburner

The economy is such that I have never had a BMW sales person not offer a test drive. In fact, they have been particularly accommodating all along.

Try following the thread a little better; I was calling a Porsche dealer located @110 miles away from where I live...

pp2009pp

"Went to look at the M3 that the Jeep dealer had. It was advertised as dark blue but it was black. How do you make that mistake? Idiots. It also had brand new Blizzaks fitted to the stock rims. On top of all that I just didn't get a good vibe from it. The salesguy could tell I wasn't too impressed and just walked away. No test drive- why waste everybody's time?
The search continues... "

--- I have NEVER seen that. That simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever. These guys would grab any prospect by the lapels and make you take a test drive if they could. :shades:

stickguy

well, if you want something not too big, but that can handle cargo, try a Mazda 6 wagon. I think those were all V6? But you could get a stick I am pretty sure.

They also had the hatch version with the 4, but the 6 is quite a bit quicker IIIRC.

good enough reliability, and should be quite a bit cheaper than a lot of the other options. Can come with all the goodies too.

kyfdx

Okay.. 9-3 SportKombi.. Used ones are going for $16K-$18K...

Who cares about reliability?.. this is CCBA... the car will be gone before it needs a fill-up, let alone a repair..

nippononly

are amazingly inexpensive, given that they went for what, $30-40K new? Plus IMO they looked better than the current model. I have been poking around just a bit, am playing with the idea of picking one of those up. The only problem with that model is sales were low and finding a nice used one that's nearby isn't that easy. Plus, I won't buy black, which seems to be about 50% of all the used GS300s I find.

woodyww

Seriously an Audi out of warranty scares me much more then any Saab ever would.

Yeah, I had these 2 crusty Scottish mechanics about 10 years ago who worked on my M6 & my (pre-GM) Saab. I asked them about buying a used audi, one said: "Beautiful cars, but God help Ye when the warranty runs out".

But I'm looking at the repair charts in CR right now for diff. years of saabs & audis. Their repair charts for 9-3's are just horrendous, 9-5's not much better. I guess my thinking is, Audi's are beautifully finished, many models have great performance, recent saabs are not in the same class IMO....but then I'm not rushing out to buy a used audi right now either......

andre1969

but happy 10 year anniversary, dear Intrepid! It was 10 years ago, November 6, 1999, that I bought it. 150,000 miles and still moving under its own power!

woodyww

Plus, I won't buy black

I could write a book about "won't buy black". Usually with me it's a black interior; that's the kiss of death even in New England during an 80-90 degree summer day. After my previous 3 black cars, I also added black paint to what I didn't want. Of course when I was shopping, the only cars that were really nice, & good prices, were black int. or ext.

So I've been the proud owner of a black/tan bmw (that I got a great deal on) for about 8 years......my 4th black car.....(???)

michaellno

but happy 10 year anniversary, dear Intrepid! It was 10 years ago, November 6, 1999, that I bought it. 150,000 miles and still moving under its own power!

So, when are you going to replace it?

pp2009pp

Nope, not buying it. That hasn't been my experience at all or that of anyone else I know. I know lots of people who have been buying cars this year from all different makes and everyone is accommodating and, in fact, very aggressive with very nice invites for weekend test drive events even for Porsches. IIRC that included 911s taken out for fun and as a thank you for purchases and just for looking.

You need to learn how to approach a dealership so that they don't ignore you. You can't blame that on the manufacturers or the dealers. This is a great environment to be a buyer for everything except the Prius.

:shades:

nippononly

If you were ever a CCBS sufferer, I hereby pronounced you CURED! ;-)

And BTW, don't share the cure with me, I don't want to be cured!

roadburner

You need to learn how to approach a dealership so that they don't ignore you. You can't blame that on the manufacturers or the dealers. This is a great environment to be a buyer for everything except the Prius.

Thanks for all of your knowledgeable "help"(although I wonder if we are reading the same thread). Try reading my post again; I didn't WANT any help from the Jeep dealer; that car was not what I wanted. Maybe you enjoy being pestered by some guy who asks twenty times "What can I do to put you in a car today?", but not me. When I am seriously looking for a car I have had no trouble finding an accommodating salesperson(Jake Weenie, er, Sweeney, excluded).

andre1969

So, when are you going to replace it?

Probably not anytime soon. It's nice not having a car payment. Plus, at this point, I guess the Trep is worthless as a trade in, so even if I did buy a new car, I'd probably hang onto it as a spare. Not that I don't already have enough of those.

roadburner

Good luck with that... .probably has a lot more.. It looks great for an '03, though...

OK, I found out a bit more about the 2003 M3 at Porsche of the Village. It is an SMG car, but it only has 22,360 miles on it.Other options are CWP, H-K, Premium Package(bleah), and Xenons. No nav, which I consider to be a plus. Now to find some time to go look at it...

mark156

A few posts back someone mentioned the CR-V (ours... 2007, AWD, Nav, sunroof, currently 30,700 miles).

I did have the differential fluid replaced (under warranty) as it made a noise when pulling into parking places (when I noticed it).

The battery was replaced under warranty (everything seemed fine to me).

Both front pull-down arm rests were replaced under warranty because of peeling.

Front calipers vibrate over bumps (mechanic told me the Odyssey's were worse). Dealer replaced but didn't make a bit of difference. Sounds like a box of wooden marbles while going over bumps. The sound goes away when applying the brakes.

The CR-V has been a great little car otherwise. Perfect to pull behind the motorhome.

Mark156

qbrozen

I could write a book about "won't buy black". Usually with me it's a black interior; that's the kiss of death even in New England during an 80-90 degree summer day. After my previous 3 black cars, I also added black paint to what I didn't want. Of course when I was shopping, the only cars that were really nice, & good prices, were black int. or ext.

Haha. Tell me about it. I swore off black a number of times. Then wound up with a black interior in the Infiniti. Now have a black Mazda5 with black interior and a black Benz in the driveway. When buying used, you take what you can get.

pp2009pp

Some of us have no trouble finding accommodating dealers these days. Not calling them idiots does help.

:shades:

kyfdx

SMG, really?

That was the one thing I checked.... could have sworn it was a six-speed..

But.. I was there to peruse the Porsches, so maybe I missed it...

Sure enough.. here is the car... '03 M3

Yup... a big picture of the shifter with SMG in big letters.. duh.

Asking $25K on the web.... Not a bad price for a low-mile '03... M3s scare me, though... New engine might be a year of college... lol.

roadburner

You seem to be the only person in this topic who has difficulty understanding my posts. Hint: Try reading my comments before replying to them. For example I said:
"When I am seriously looking for a car I have had no trouble finding an accommodating salesperson"

To which you replied:

"Some of us have no trouble finding accommodating dealers these days."

You go on to opine:

"Not calling them idiots does help."

Good advice, except that I think that a dealer who lists a car as "Mystic Blue Metallic" and then later posts pictures of an obviously black car(without correcting the color) IS an idiot.

pp2009pp

Roadie, you were obviously upset that a dealer didn't take you seriously enough to even provide a test drive for a used car. You were upset enough to post about it. I find that, in this economic environment, not credible.

My advice is to not call them idiots and then you will have a better buying (or in your case not buying) experience. You may think they are idiots but if you take that angry attitude to the lot then I do not blame them for not taking you seriously. I wouldn't want to take someone with that attitude for a ride with me either especially if they were at the wheel.

That is just self preservation.

:shades:

stever

Why don't you two go off and find a sandbox somewhere and the rest of the us will talk about the lastest Craigslist find or whatever. You know, the topic.

Thanks!

boomchek

lol

tifighter

Let's up the mood in here and play a game: What would you buy today if you had x dollars? You need a real daily driver. Let's make it hard and say you only have $7500 cash (just enough for options, not enough to make it easy). Before everyone says older Miata, let's also say it has to be driven year around (i.e. if you live in LA, a Miata may work, but in Wisconsin? Really?). What would you buy? Is newer with safety stuff important to you? Is older with 'character' important to you? What else? Looking forward to hearing people's choices...

I hope this gives everyone another excuse to cruise craigslist soon

tifighter

Hey Mark, haven't heard from you in a bit. How's the RV?

My wife and I were in Yosemite a few weeks ago and had a disaster camping night and the next day, a RV suddenly made a lot of sense. Saw quite a few in the park with EU plates...mostly France. That's a haul!

boomchek

I have many cars on my list I'd like to own, but if we're talking year round, in Vancouver BC, I'd be looking for any of the following:

older Toyota 4Runner 1990-2002
older Jeep Wagoneer, for that money I'd have to find one in perfect shape
Isuzu Axiom (I like the way it looks, they never sold them in Canada though)
Audi Allroad, but I doubt I'd find a decent one for the money.

roadburner

E30 325ix, no question.

andre1969

What would you buy today if you had x dollars? You need a real daily driver. Let's make it hard and say you only have $7500 cash (just enough for options, not enough to make it easy).

My first choice would probably be some decent, middle-of-the-road 4-cyl sedan. Say, maybe as new/low-mileage of an Altima or Accord that I could find for $7500. However, I have a feeling that I wouldn't find much for that price. I just searched the local CL listings, for example, and found an '02 Altima 2.5S with 110,000 miles on it for $6,995, at a dealership. I'm sure Accords would be worse.

I just have trouble grasping the idea of paying that much money for an 8 year old car with over 100,000 miles on it. I know cars tend to last longer these days, but not long enough for me to feel comfortable spending that kind of money. But, KBB lists this car at $7,069 retail asking price, so maybe it's in range. Plus, that $6995 is just an asking price. I know they'll take less. Maybe a lot less, depending on how bad they want the car gone.

I dunno if there's anything in the domestics in that price range that would really turn me on. I found a 2004 Malibu LS sedan with 84,000 miles on it, 3.5 V-6, for $7400. In some respects, it's more car for the money...bigger engine, two years newer, 26K less miles. But if forced to choose, I'd probably go with the Nissan! I'll also confess that I like the 2001-2006 Stratus/Sebring sedans, but I don't like the 4-cyl they use in them, and the V-6 would be a bit thirstier than what I'd be looking for. I don't think the first Ford Fusions are old enough, yet to get into that price range, and I've heard that with them, the 4-cyl is kinda lame, almost like they were forcing you to spring for the V-6!

Now I'm sure there's plenty of cool older cars I could find for $7500 or less, but I'm trying to think in terms of practical, fairly reliable daily driver...and for someone who has a more "typical" commute than my 3.5 miles!

stickguy

how about the 2000 Acura TL I bought last December. 1 owner, all dealer serviced, and just 146,000 miles.

All that for $2,000. The other $5500 can go towards new struts and tires, and an emergency fund for in case the tranny dies!

Seriously though, i would probably try to find something for 5-5.5K, and keep the extra as a repair emergency fund.

woodyww

Haha. Tell me about it. I swore off black a number of times. Then wound up with a black interior in the Infiniti. Now have a black Mazda5 with black interior and a black Benz in the driveway. When buying used, you take what you can get

I think it's some kind of rule, or phenomenon: Whatever you want most in a used car (colors, options), you won't find. Holding out for Xenons, or Nav, stick, or SMG? You'll only find that in a color that you won't buy, or has high miles, or "issues".

Come to think of it, the 4 cars I've owned with black interiors &/or exteriors have been the best cars I've ever owned. The '73 Mercury Capri with black interior that I had in FL, with weak/failing A/C, now that got truly brutal in the summers.......but a great car other than the scorch marks on one's bum.......(??)

tifighter

E30 325ix, no question.

Not an easy find, that's for sure. Everyone I have seen for years has had 175k+ miles and were nearly all automatic.

tifighter

older Jeep Wagoneer, for that money I'd have to find one in perfect shape
Isuzu Axiom (I like the way it looks, they never sold them in Canada though)

How about a Grand Wagoneer? Now that could be cool, but they have appreciated in the past few years. Thirsty, no abs, no airbags, etc. But hey, they're timeless.

Isuzu Axiom- you may have a hard time finding one of the seven they sold in the US :P But seriously, I once had a 2nd gen Trooper, and it was a solid car. The V6 can be an oil burner, though. And I secretly like the VehiCross...

anonymousposts

I would expect to be able to find a nice Accord or a 98-02 GS300 with around 100k. Only problem is the only Accord and GS' in this price range have tons upon tons of iles on them with unrealistic owners.

I found a 99 GS300 with 128k on CL for $8800 private party. The car has not had the 100k service and the owner is firm at $8000. KBB private party is $5500?!? I told him good luck. I found a 2002 GS300 with 65k for $13,200. private party excellent is $11,100. I'm not sure if they are negotiable but I refuse to overpay for a car. If I can't make this work I will go back to looking for a nice TL 6-speed or wait until a magic deal comes along on a newer car.

roadburner

Asking $25K on the web.... Not a bad price for a low-mile '03... M3s scare me, though... New engine might be a year of college... lol.

The S52 is a very durable engine; you can usually get at least 200,000 miles out of one before it requires a rebuild. Now all I have to do is find a way to unload that miserable Mazdaspeed; did you know that OEM pads for that econobox cost over two times as much as OEM BMW pads for an E46 M3? :mad: :mad: :mad: