Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

nyccarguy

I’ve been (over) thinking about the Jeep Wrangler 4Xe. I don’t think it’s the right vehicle or time for me. Thinking out loud. I probably could order one, sell my Tacoma, & cash out. Drive the Wrangler for 1 1/2 years until I burn through the warranty, then sell it, & get another Tacoma. I really use the Tacoma’s full 6’ bed and then sometimes fill up the back seat too.

Option 2 would be to dump the Pilot and have my wife drive the Wrangler. We really need a 3 row SUV right now. I suspect the Wrangler has similar interior space like my Tacoma. With 3 kids in the back, that would get pretty snug.

Either way it seems like too much of a compromise. Resale values aren’t a sure thing. Even with a Wrangler. Who knows how the resale is going to be once the Bronco becomes the new “it” car.

henryn

tjc78 said:

@Sandman6472 said:

When I pulled into the employee parking lot, a truck came in with new vehicles and a blue Rav4 XLE. Later in the afternoon, saw a customer driving that new Rav4 and figure she either bought it or leased it as it was in the new car prep area when I was leaving. Not surprised at all, as even the bunch of pre-owned Rav4's has declined since I was last there. Not surprised about this one bit, as my co-worker at Enterprise got his pre-owned 2019 Rav4 there a few months back. A very nice vehicle and he loves it. We plan to bring it over to the house soon to do the garage test and see how it fits. Just so I have a frame of reference for when I find something, hopefully in 2022.

People just love those RAVs. My mom has a 2019 XLE. I’ve driven it plenty of times and can’t necessarily say anything bad about it, but still can’t warm up to it nor would want to own one. This is her third one and her millionth Toyota, (seriously it may be her tenth) so it’s apparently just me.

------------------------end quoted material-------------------
Did you ever drive a Rav4 with the V6 engine? That just might change your mind about owning one. But they haven't offered that option since about 2012, so moot point I suppose.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

just checked the lease. Would not be very good. RV is quite bad. 24/10 is better than 36/10. Comes out to over $500/mo on a base model and with NJ's no tax.

Yeah.. low residual and huge money factor. I was thinking more of a flip

sda

I did a Sunday morning walk of several new car lots. I looked at the new VW Taos. The base model has a very plain and cheap looking interior but otherwise nice. The SE looks much nicer all around but is 30k+. The dealer added $1500 for inventory adjustment and the general a mop and glow additions making it $34k. The $1500+ mop and glow was added to all new inventory. The Honda dealer was worse adding Market Adjustment of $1999 plus another $1500 of additional stuff like wheel locks, nitrogen for tires, etc. for a $3500 mark up. Buyer beware.

stickguy

I did not realize the Taos was out already. Need to stop over and take a look at some point!

mjfloyd1

@28firefighter said:
Actually not Dave Smith.

Per JLforum- > Kent at Peterson CJDR in Nampo, Idaho

28firefighter

I’ve spoken to Dave Smith on various occasions. Competitive pricing usually, but it is a slog talking to them. Mop and glo, unwanted accessories, etc.

oldfarmer50

sda said:

I did a Sunday morning walk of several new car lots. I looked at the new VW Taos. The base model has a very plain and cheap looking interior but otherwise nice. The SE looks much nicer all around but is 30k+. The dealer added $1500 for inventory adjustment and the general a mop and glow additions making it $34k. The $1500+ mop and glow was added to all new inventory. The Honda dealer was worse adding Market Adjustment of $1999 plus another $1500 of additional stuff like wheel locks, nitrogen for tires, etc. for a $3500 mark up. Buyer beware.

Why don’t dealers just spit in your eye to show their contempt? I wonder if this will come back to bite them when supply stabilizes or will people have short memories?

qbrozen

Omg. I wish them all the luck!
https://www.jaguarwhiteplains.com/used-inventory/index.htm?make=Chevrolet&model=Camaro&trim=LT1

stickguy

oldfarmer50 said:

sda said:

I did a Sunday morning walk of several new car lots. I looked at the new VW Taos. The base model has a very plain and cheap looking interior but otherwise nice. The SE looks much nicer all around but is 30k+. The dealer added $1500 for inventory adjustment and the general a mop and glow additions making it $34k. The $1500+ mop and glow was added to all new inventory. The Honda dealer was worse adding Market Adjustment of $1999 plus another $1500 of additional stuff like wheel locks, nitrogen for tires, etc. for a $3500 mark up. Buyer beware.

Why don’t dealers just spit in your eye to show their contempt? I wonder if this will come back to bite them when supply stabilizes or will people have short memories?

it works both ways. Buyers have no problem lowballing like crazy if there is a slight oversupply. And have zero loyalty to any particular dealer (or usually even a brand).

stickguy

qbrozen said:

Omg. I wish them all the luck!
https://www.jaguarwhiteplains.com/used-inventory/index.htm?make=Chevrolet&model=Camaro&trim=LT1

is that more than MSRP on that car?

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

sda said:

I did a Sunday morning walk of several new car lots. I looked at the new VW Taos. The base model has a very plain and cheap looking interior but otherwise nice. The SE looks much nicer all around but is 30k+. The dealer added $1500 for inventory adjustment and the general a mop and glow additions making it $34k. The $1500+ mop and glow was added to all new inventory. The Honda dealer was worse adding Market Adjustment of $1999 plus another $1500 of additional stuff like wheel locks, nitrogen for tires, etc. for a $3500 mark up. Buyer beware.

Why don’t dealers just spit in your eye to show their contempt? I wonder if this will come back to bite them when supply stabilizes or will people have short memories?

Math explains everything. If they normally sell 50 cars per month, and make $1k profit per car, that is $50k per month. If they can only sell 20 cars this month (because that's all they have), then to need to make $2.5k per sale.

This is also known as "unrestrained capitalism", or "whatever the market will bear". Things will return to normal, they always do. And no, I don't think people will hold this against them when it's all over. We pretty much expect this from car dealers, after all.

Look, you're working for an auto rental company right? And they are charging MUCH more for rentals during the present shortage. The shortage is their fault, they guessed wrong when they reduced their fleet, but the customers get to pay for their mistake, right? It is what it is. The only thing we can do about high priced new and used cars is to not purchase one right now, wait it out.

stickguy

my wife actually surprised me yesterday when I was telling her about Jeeps. Mentioned other options (like a Miata or a PU). She did frown on the low sports car, knowing she would be wildly uncomfortable (and quite embarrassed to be seen trying to get in and out of it!) But did say that a PU sounded like a handy thing to have! Going out yesterday to buy a new grill and not being able to get one assembled, was my once every 3-4 year excuse to have one!

28firefighter

My wife decided on Friday that it was time to convert our spare bedroom to the home gym she wants. So spent all day yesterday painting, ripping up carpet, hauling away the trash, pulling up staples etc. This morning started laying rubber flooring. I’m beat.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

qbrozen said:

Omg. I wish them all the luck!
https://www.jaguarwhiteplains.com/used-inventory/index.htm?make=Chevrolet&model=Camaro&trim=LT1

is that more than MSRP on that car?

msrp was less than $39k.

tjc78

@henryn said:
------------------------end quoted material-------------------
Did you ever drive a Rav4 with the V6 engine? That just might change your mind about owning one. But they haven't offered that option since about 2012, so moot point I suppose.

Yes and I owned a Toyota that had the 3.5 2GR V6. Nice little SUV sleeper... but the previous generation was worse than the current in most every way.

ab348

28firefighter said:

My wife decided on Friday that it was time to convert our spare bedroom to the home gym she wants. So spent all day yesterday painting, ripping up carpet, hauling away the trash, pulling up staples etc. This morning started laying rubber flooring. I’m beat.

Oh.

When I first read that, I thought SHE was doing all that work.

How foolish of me.

28firefighter

Yeah. No. She helped with painting and she has been putting down the floor tiles. But, naturally, taping the trim, painting the edges, removing the carpet, carpet pad, tack strips, and staples all fell to me.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

sda said:

I did a Sunday morning walk of several new car lots. I looked at the new VW Taos. The base model has a very plain and cheap looking interior but otherwise nice. The SE looks much nicer all around but is 30k+. The dealer added $1500 for inventory adjustment and the general a mop and glow additions making it $34k. The $1500+ mop and glow was added to all new inventory. The Honda dealer was worse adding Market Adjustment of $1999 plus another $1500 of additional stuff like wheel locks, nitrogen for tires, etc. for a $3500 mark up. Buyer beware.

Why don’t dealers just spit in your eye to show their contempt? I wonder if this will come back to bite them when supply stabilizes or will people have short memories?

Math explains everything. If they normally sell 50 cars per month, and make $1k profit per car, that is $50k per month. If they can only sell 20 cars this month (because that's all they have), then to need to make $2.5k per sale.

This is also known as "unrestrained capitalism", or "whatever the market will bear". Things will return to normal, they always do. And no, I don't think people will hold this against them when it's all over. We pretty much expect this from car dealers, after all.

Look, you're working for an auto rental company right? And they are charging MUCH more for rentals during the present shortage. The shortage is their fault, they guessed wrong when they reduced their fleet, but the customers get to pay for their mistake, right? It is what it is. The only thing we can do about high priced new and used cars is to not purchase one right now, wait it out.

Of course you’re all right. I’m just cranky from looking at car ads.

Oh yeah, my cargo van blew a brake line an hour ago. Off to the shop it goes. It’s only money, right?

corvette

28firefighter said:

Yeah. No. She helped with painting and she has been putting down the floor tiles. But, naturally, taping the trim, painting the edges, removing the carpet, carpet pad, tack strips, and staples all fell to me.

The carpet, I wouldn't mind doing. As for the painting, I can give you some lessons on that will ensure you are never asked to do it again.

28firefighter

@corvette said:
The carpet, I wouldn't mind doing. As for the painting, I can give you some lessons on that will ensure you are never asked to do it again.

Pulled off the tape tonight. I have no concerns about being asked to do it again. Hahahaha.

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

sda said:

I did a Sunday morning walk of several new car lots. I looked at the new VW Taos. The base model has a very plain and cheap looking interior but otherwise nice. The SE looks much nicer all around but is 30k+. The dealer added $1500 for inventory adjustment and the general a mop and glow additions making it $34k. The $1500+ mop and glow was added to all new inventory. The Honda dealer was worse adding Market Adjustment of $1999 plus another $1500 of additional stuff like wheel locks, nitrogen for tires, etc. for a $3500 mark up. Buyer beware.

Why don’t dealers just spit in your eye to show their contempt? I wonder if this will come back to bite them when supply stabilizes or will people have short memories?

Math explains everything. If they normally sell 50 cars per month, and make $1k profit per car, that is $50k per month. If they can only sell 20 cars this month (because that's all they have), then to need to make $2.5k per sale.

This is also known as "unrestrained capitalism", or "whatever the market will bear". Things will return to normal, they always do. And no, I don't think people will hold this against them when it's all over. We pretty much expect this from car dealers, after all.

Look, you're working for an auto rental company right? And they are charging MUCH more for rentals during the present shortage. The shortage is their fault, they guessed wrong when they reduced their fleet, but the customers get to pay for their mistake, right? It is what it is. The only thing we can do about high priced new and used cars is to not purchase one right now, wait it out.

Of course you’re all right. I’m just cranky from looking at car ads.

Oh yeah, my cargo van blew a brake line an hour ago. Off to the shop it goes. It’s only money, right?

Blew a brake line? Sounds like you'll need a wrecker to get it to the shop. When I was young and crazy, I might have (probably would have) tried to get it there myself. Not now!

That's a 2004 van, right? So 17 years old, and you live in the rust belt, so I can imagine what everything underneath looks like. Can you say "rust"?

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

My wife decided on Friday that it was time to convert our spare bedroom to the home gym she wants. So spent all day yesterday painting, ripping up carpet, hauling away the trash, pulling up staples etc. This morning started laying rubber flooring. I’m beat.

Why not just have your wife do the demo for you if it’s exercise she wants?

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

qbrozen said:

Omg. I wish them all the luck!
https://www.jaguarwhiteplains.com/used-inventory/index.htm?make=Chevrolet&model=Camaro&trim=LT1

is that more than MSRP on that car?

msrp was less than $39k.

Insane!

Sandman6472

The new Taos is out already? $30K plus for the SE model does seem a bit on the high side to be honest. Regardless, am very interested in one and it's in the top three of my short list. But, it's a VW and just not sure I want to go down this road again truth be told. I'm really leaning more toward the new Corolla Cross right now as it's a Toyota #1, a good thing, and the "cheap to keep" aspect of owning a Toyota product. Have owned four in the past, two Camry's and two Corolla's, so very familiar with how economical they are. I'm just at the point where I don't want anymore drama in my day to day vehicle anymore. And if it drives anything like the current Corolla model, I'm good to go. Not the most powerful thing out there but, not looking for speed at this point. As long as it has good low end torque and can pass others on the highway without making too much racket, I'm happy. The only must have is a decent sound system which probably means the top model which will include features I don't necessarily need but will have to pay for. Not sure if Toyota still has JBL as their audio provider, but if it sounds good with no distortion at higher volume levels, I'm willing to pay the extra needed.
My time frame isn't a real issue as I'd like to wait until the last week of December or sometime in 2022. Would like all the color combo's to be out so I can have the best choice in my selection.

xwesx

stickguy said:

my wife actually surprised me yesterday when I was telling her about Jeeps. Mentioned other options (like a Miata or a PU). She did frown on the low sports car, knowing she would be wildly uncomfortable (and quite embarrassed to be seen trying to get in and out of it!) But did say that a PU sounded like a handy thing to have! Going out yesterday to buy a new grill and not being able to get one assembled, was my once every 3-4 year excuse to have one!

Bah. Put a trailer hitch on the Acura and get a cargo tray. Solved.

tjc78

@Sandman6472 said:
The new Taos is out already? $30K plus for the SE model does seem a bit on the high side to be honest. Regardless, am very interested in one and it's in the top three of my short list. But, it's a VW and just not sure I want to go down this road again truth be told. I'm really leaning more toward the new Corolla Cross right now as it's a Toyota #1, a good thing, and the "cheap to keep" aspect of owning a Toyota product. Have owned four in the past, two Camry's and two Corolla's, so very familiar with how economical they are. I'm just at the point where I don't want anymore drama in my day to day vehicle anymore. And if it drives anything like the current Corolla model, I'm good to go. Not the most powerful thing out there but, not looking for speed at this point. As long as it has good low end torque and can pass others on the highway without making too much racket, I'm happy. The only must have is a decent sound system which probably means the top model which will include features I don't necessarily need but will have to pay for. Not sure if Toyota still has JBL as their audio provider, but if it sounds good with no distortion at higher volume levels, I'm willing to pay the extra needed.
My time frame isn't a real issue as I'd like to wait until the last week of December or sometime in 2022. Would like all the color combo's to be out so I can have the best choice in my selection.

Has the Golf really been that bad? IMO if it has one or two more minor out of pocket repairs over 5-6 years isn’t that little bit of extra money worth it to drive something you like more?

tjc78

@xwesx said:
Bah. Put a trailer hitch on the Acura and get a cargo tray. Solved.

Those trays look to be very useful. Sometimes I wish our car had a hitch.

Sandman6472

No, hasn't been that bad really to be honest but I'm a bit unhappy dealing with what might happen going forward to be honest. Every day I start it and pray there's no idiot light on the dash. I guess the reliability factor is getting to me a bit as I put more miles on it. But, it'll be staying in the fleet if I don't like those few that are due out soon. I know that right now, definitely not the time to do anything, but I'll still look and go for a test drive once my choices hit the showrooms. Best thing is I don't have to do anything at all if I don't want to.

stickguy

Our old RDX had a hitch for the bike rack. Didn’t feel like spending the cost of an Acura one on the new car. I won’t put a genetic one on either. They look awful and hang way too low. Just don’t take the bikes anywhere! I won’t ever tow with this car either.

Pretty sure an assembled gas grill was not fitting on one of those trays either.

kyfdx

I have an eTrailer 1.5" hitch on the GTI. Assuming it was for a bike rack. Sits up nice and tight, and looks pretty good.

nyccarguy

tjc78 said:

@xwesx said:

Bah. Put a trailer hitch on the Acura and get a cargo tray. Solved.

Those trays look to be very useful. Sometimes I wish our car had a hitch.

The hitch mounted trays are very useful. I borrowed one from a friend when we drove to Disney about 5 years ago. With 6 of us in the old 2011 Pilot, we needed extra space.

sda

On our 2010 Pilot, it had a trailer hitch as standard equipment. It even had the electrical pigtail (included in a plastic bag) available to connect for tail lights. I was going to buy a bike rack but never did. Is the trailer hitch still included on the current Pilot? We miss the versatility and room that the Pilot provided.

henryn

xwesx said:

stickguy said:

my wife actually surprised me yesterday when I was telling her about Jeeps. Mentioned other options (like a Miata or a PU). She did frown on the low sports car, knowing she would be wildly uncomfortable (and quite embarrassed to be seen trying to get in and out of it!) But did say that a PU sounded like a handy thing to have! Going out yesterday to buy a new grill and not being able to get one assembled, was my once every 3-4 year excuse to have one!

Bah. Put a trailer hitch on the Acura and get a cargo tray. Solved.

Be careful, your membership in CCBA could be in jeopardy talking like that!!!

henryn

sda said:

On our 2010 Pilot, it had a trailer hitch as standard equipment. It even had the electrical pigtail (included in a plastic bag) available to connect for tail lights. I was going to buy a bike rack but never did. Is the trailer hitch still included on the current Pilot? We miss the versatility and room that the Pilot provided.

You want versatility and room? You do realize that nothing, and I mean nothing, has more versatility and more inside space compared to outside dimensions than a ______.

stickguy

My BIL and SIL just retired, and are looking to replace their aging 2002 Odyssey. And planning on another van. They do a lot of bike riding (she does triathlons) on expensive bikes, and want to be able to carry them inside. Minivans, wheel them right in without having to take them apart! Plus, nice for traveling and carrying people.

corvette

@stickguy - I think they'd be impressed with the Pacifica, and I think the Kia minivan was recently redesigned.

sda

henryn said:

sda said:

On our 2010 Pilot, it had a trailer hitch as standard equipment. It even had the electrical pigtail (included in a plastic bag) available to connect for tail lights. I was going to buy a bike rack but never did. Is the trailer hitch still included on the current Pilot? We miss the versatility and room that the Pilot provided.

You want versatility and room? You do realize that nothing, and I mean nothing, has more versatility and more inside space compared to outside dimensions than a ______.

True dat. We had an 03 Odyssey that we really liked. When the lease ended I was all for another Odyssey but the Pilot was preferred by the other half.

xwesx

stickguy said:

Our old RDX had a hitch for the bike rack. Didn’t feel like spending the cost of an Acura one on the new car. I won’t put a genetic one on either. They look awful and hang way too low. Just don’t take the bikes anywhere! I won’t ever tow with this car either.

Pretty sure an assembled gas grill was not fitting on one of those trays either.

Well, true. They can be ridiculously huge these days (the grills, not the hitches or trays). That said, I have hauled refrigerators and even an elliptical trainer on mine before.

rbirns1

I want to reach out to multiple dealers and get a price on a new build order. Something like, "I plan to order this model, how much off MSRP will you charge". I will also ask about current stock. Do I send this through the dealer website "contact us", or should I send email to someone at the dealer?

qbrozen

rbirns1 said:

I want to reach out to multiple dealers and get a price on a new build order. Something like, "I plan to order this model, how much off MSRP will you charge". I will also ask about current stock. Do I send this through the dealer website "contact us", or should I send email to someone at the dealer?

If you can, send it to someone specific. Some sites don't make that easy, though. If you have to submit through "contact us," which I often do, be prepared to repeat your request again because they NEVER read the initial contact message.

nyccarguy

@stickguy said:
My BIL and SIL just retired, and are looking to replace their aging 2002 Odyssey. And planning on another van. They do a lot of bike riding (she does triathlons) on expensive bikes, and want to be able to carry them inside. Minivans, wheel them right in without having to take them apart! Plus, nice for traveling and carrying people.

Sienna.

explorerx4

@fbirns1,
Many dealers have an internet specialist. If you go to the dealer website, they may list the sales staff.

stickguy

My people are likely getting the Sienna. They already have a Prius they love and are leaning hybrid anyway. Also considering the Pacifica, but there was something limiting about it (other than being from that company when they plan to keep it forever!)

I think it was middle row seats not coming out? Or out easily? I’m assuming no longer has stow and go, at least on hybrid.

For the bikes, seats folding flat or easily removable is important to them.

au1994

henryn said:

sda said:

On our 2010 Pilot, it had a trailer hitch as standard equipment. It even had the electrical pigtail (included in a plastic bag) available to connect for tail lights. I was going to buy a bike rack but never did. Is the trailer hitch still included on the current Pilot? We miss the versatility and room that the Pilot provided.

You want versatility and room? You do realize that nothing, and I mean nothing, has more versatility and more inside space compared to outside dimensions than a ______.

Z4 ///M?

henryn

stickguy said:

My people are likely getting the Sienna. They already have a Prius they love and are leaning hybrid anyway. Also considering the Pacifica, but there was something limiting about it (other than being from that company when they plan to keep it forever!)

I think it was middle row seats not coming out? Or out easily? I’m assuming no longer has stow and go, at least on hybrid.

For the bikes, seats folding flat or easily removable is important to them.

Mopar (Chrysler / Dodge) makes the only minivans where the middle seats fold into the floor. For the Sienna, the seats have to be removed (not an easy job) and then stored somewhere. If you opt for the hybrid Pacifica, you lose the stow-n-go seats and several other things:

stickguy

The only item on that list they care about is the middle row seats. Stow and go would be perfect for them but I know they want the hybrid.

I think they just normally take the seats out and leave them in the garage all the time.

stickguy

Looks like the Maverick gets released officially tomorrow. That I really want to see. Assuming,mid course, Ford is actually able to produce any.

Plus I’m still not sure I trust a Ford product. And no way these are likely to lease well.

au1994

stickguy said:

Looks like the Maverick gets released officially tomorrow. That I really want to see. Assuming,mid course, Ford is actually able to produce any.

Plus I’m still not sure I trust a Ford product. And no way these are likely to lease well.

I would assume that they have enough components to produce some predetermined launch quantities, otherwise they would delay. Don’t want a repeat of the Bronco.

Probably right about leasing horribly. Its a completely new model so nothing to base residuals on unlike coming out with a new gen Civic.

mjfloyd1

Everyone is ok.

School bus didn’t merge very well. Score is school bus 1 to Audi Q7 0. Rear axle broken.

How do you proceed if you don’t want the vehicle back after repair (or even want it repaired)