Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

sda

stickguy said:

Would not be hard to convince the boss to ride in that. But, I did the numbers. adding in all the fine print, and NJ's cut of things (tax and DMV), it comes out to just about $490/month with just 1st payment DAS.

not bad these days I guess, but not super cheap! Still better than the $513 one on Rodo.

Things add up fast, sheesh. Great car, however.

corvette

The Toyota broker did have what was I think a base Venza for $400 a month, which is probably a great deal in today's environment. I'm hoping I can do a six month extension on the Tundra, which will put me needing a replacement by the end of August, 2022, and that the landscape will be better by then.

benjaminh

The Civic EX actually has about the same interior room and trunk space as the TLX. Plus the Civic EX gets 42 mpg on the highway (who needs a hybrid with that kind of mpg). Looks like in some areas of the country Honda is offering 2.9% financing for 60 months, and a loan of 25k at that rate would give monthly payments of $448.

The 0% rate for 3 years on the Maverick is a great deal. But I supposed Ford might end that by the time an ordered Maverick actually arrives.

Prices seem like they are just going to go up from here for the next few months. If you really want something to drive now you may have to make a tough choice.

stickguy

made a 2nd stop today at the Hyundai dealer (went back later after dinner with the wife) to show her stuff. Even took a test drive! Nicer now, they just gave us the keys and said to have fun.

First showed her the same Santa Cruz SEL. Still sitting there unlocked. She seemed to like it OK. I think she found it to look a lot nicer in person than in pictures. Said that it would probably be fine.

Then we test drove a used Kona, to see how we would like it. A 2019 Limited with only 4,000 miles. FWD version, with the 1.6t/DCT combo. Nice little car. Pretty good seats. a little stiff maybe but handled well and that sucker scooted. Even the wife noticed how quick it was. She was OK with it. A bit lukewarm (not really her cup of tea) but said for a spare car it could be fine. But, we both thought that at the price, could probably find something else a bit nicer or more useful in some way. But I would not hesitate to recommend one.

stickguy

price on the Kona (certified) was $25,000. New version I think would be about $29,500 MSRP, so for such low miles and CPO, probably not bad these days.

I did see on the Santa Cruz they had ADM stickers. $5,000 (but no add on accessories listed at least). Wondering if it was just the hot new model, I looked at an Elantra. That was $2,500. A Canyon in the GMC showroom was $3,500 and a little Buick CUV was $2,500. Ouch.

Tomorrow, stopping to look at a 2018 BMW 3 series. That has 14,000 miles. It has been a while since I drove a 3 series of that vintage. Will be interesting to see what the wife thinks on that one. Zero practical value, but at least it should be nice enough for her!

au1994

stickguy said:

made a 2nd stop today at the Hyundai dealer (went back later after dinner with the wife) to show her stuff. Even took a test drive! Nicer now, they just gave us the keys and said to have fun.

First showed her the same Santa Cruz SEL. Still sitting there unlocked. She seemed to like it OK. I think she found it to look a lot nicer in person than in pictures. Said that it would probably be fine.

Then we test drove a used Kona, to see how we would like it. A 2019 Limited with only 4,000 miles. FWD version, with the 1.6t/DCT combo. Nice little car. Pretty good seats. a little stiff maybe but handled well and that sucker scooted. Even the wife noticed how quick it was. She was OK with it. A bit lukewarm (not really her cup of tea) but said for a spare car it could be fine. But, we both thought that at the price, could probably find something else a bit nicer or more useful in some way. But I would not hesitate to recommend one.

Would be interested in a drive of the Santa Cruz.

stickguy

after talking it over some more, decided to go ahead and order the Maverick I configured. She thinks it looks neat, and agrees it would come in real handy when we get around to moving. Plus she really likes the dark blue it comes in! So going to do that this weekend and see has it goes. Since we really don't need a car immediately won't matter if it takes until the end of the year to come in. Will figure out then if it makes sense to go through with it. Even at sticker, with no ADM, it is a good deal.

though of course I will keep looking at stuff between now and then.

stickguy

we could have asked about driving the Cruz but didn't bother this time.

benjaminh

A BMW 3-series! Sounds good to me. Is it certified? What color? That would be so much nicer to drive than a Kona or Santa Cruz. BMW even offers financing on cpos....Do you have a link, or are you keeping it close to the vest in this tough market. Imho a sedan isn't something with close to zero practical value. The trunk on the 3-series is something like 16 cubic feet or so, which is really large for a car that size. The 3-series has best-in-class rear visibility. And I like the styling of the previous generation better than current generation.

https://www.bmwusa.com/certified-preowned/cpo-special-offers.html

stickguy

not certified. Not at a BMW dealer either. I checked their inventory and wasn't much that fit the bill!

this one is dark blue over tan. Classic BMW colors for us!

rayainsw

" dark blue over tan. Classic BMW colors"
Agree.
- Ray
Currently driving a dark blue over [ dark ] tan 3...

benjaminh

carfax?

andres3

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

55 City Freeway/Interstate Speed limits.....

I agree far too low. I don't mind them in Los Angeles when traffic is forcing me to go 1/11th that speed. However, at 6 AM on a Saturday/Sunday you best bet your top dollars I'm going to be ripping through.

Watch it; you’re going to be low hanging fruit for the early bird Smokey’s.

jmonroe

They have to eat breakfast too.

ab348

I was running a few errands today in thevicinty of dealership row. Lots of Hyundai, Nissan, Honda and Toyota inventory. Nothing at either the Ford or GM store. ETA: forgot to mention the Hyundai place had a Santa Cruz on the lot, $43K worthless Canadian dollars.

When I got home I checked some websites. Hyundai is offering deals on Elantra and Kona leases, Nissan doing the same on Versa, Sentra and Rogue.

stickguy

looks like for a 2018 3 series at the dealer, with a fair number of miles, they want about 30K. So getting up there once you throw tax and DMV onto that. Requires a decent chunk down ($7,500 ish) to get payments down to the $440 range even using the 60 months of 1.9% financing.

but these are nice.

https://www.bmwofmtlaurel.com/inventory/certified-used-2018-bmw-330i-xdrive-330i-xdrive-awd-sedan-wba8d9c53jem32196/

https://www.bmwofmtlaurel.com/inventory/certified-used-2018-bmw-330i-xdrive-330i-xdrive-awd-sedan-wba8d9g50jnu69166/

ab348

stickguy said:

Tomorrow, stopping to look at a 2018 BMW 3 series. That has 14,000 miles. It has been a while since I drove a 3 series of that vintage. Will be interesting to see what the wife thinks on that one. Zero practical value, but at least it should be nice enough for her!

Couldn't those run the whole gamut from secretary special with vinyl seats and rubber steering wheel to full-luxe optioned-up? The nice ones are appealing enough but the 3-series has lost whatever cachet it had for me when everyone and their executive assistant started getting one, and when used ones started getting modded by the tuner set just like they used to do with Civics.

stickguy

same dealer has a 2021 CX-30 too. we liked those but never sat in one. So will be a good chance to try one on for size. There were a few of those with decent lease offers last time I checked.

benjaminh

I think those both looks good. A Certified BMW is a good idea imho. That way you get a 1-year warranty up to any miles backed by BMW. Worth the money probably. These seem loaded from my pov. Good deal for the money in this market. Fun to drive compared to the other options you're considering.

I feel like a cpo BMW is likely a good bet. An 8-15 year old BMW would be a big gamble, but a three and a half year old CPO car should be good for at least 5 years of driving fun.

fintail

On a car buying note, I paid off the wagon lease today. Mind you, I didn't buy it out, just paid off the lease, so fingers crossed nobody drops a piano on it or anything in the next 6 months or so. Mortgage broker encouraged me to pay it off, as eliminating that expense gave me a higher approval, now more than I was thinking I wanted to spend, but in this market, the option is nice anyway.

We'll see if I buy it out in March - going to be a tough choice then.

stickguy

benjaminh said:

I think those both looks good. A Certified BMW is a good idea imho. That way you get a 1-year warranty up to any miles backed by BMW. Worth the money probably. These seem loaded from my pov. Good deal for the money in this market. Fun to drive compared to the other options you're considering.

I feel like a cpo BMW is likely a good bet. An 8-15 year old BMW would be a big gamble, but a three and a half year old CPO car should be good for at least 5 years of driving fun.

well, that or a mid level camry or an EX Civic all about the same price.

and somehow I think you got me to expand my budget from $25k to $30k here. Sneaky.

Though at that price, I might just stick with a (likely overpriced) lease!

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

The Toyota broker did have what was I think a base Venza for $400 a month, which is probably a great deal in today's environment. I'm hoping I can do a six month extension on the Tundra, which will put me needing a replacement by the end of August, 2022, and that the landscape will be better by then.

A few years ago you could buy a nice car for that monthly payment.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

well, that or a mid level camry or an EX Civic all about the same price.

and somehow I think you got me to expand my budget from $25k to $30k here. Sneaky.

Though at that price, I might just stick with a (likely overpriced) lease!

I wonder if once in your life you should drive a BMW 3-series? My personal hunch and vote is maybe yes. More fun to drive a BMW than any of the other cars you've considered. Personally I like BMW's SensaTec. No worries on maintenance. Lasts the life of the car. The blue and the red both look very nice to me, but I might lean to the blue just because the red seems to say "give me a ticket." The fact that the blue was in what appears to be a very minor fender bender might give you a tiny bit of negotiation on the price? The blue one has brand new Pirelli tires, which to me is a nice plus. I've never had those tires, but the ratings are very high. Seems a nice touch that they didn't just slap any new tires on the CPO car, but tires that were special. I wonder if that comes down from BMW corporate to do that?

benjaminh

Changed my mind, I think. I'm not entirely sure if they fixed the front bumper perfectly on the blue one. And the red one has German Continental tires, which is maybe even more appropriate for the car.

28firefighter

I’d be saving my coin and looking for a used M235 or M240 rather than a run of the mill 330.

corvette

oldfarmer50 said:

corvette said:

The Toyota broker did have what was I think a base Venza for $400 a month, which is probably a great deal in today's environment. I'm hoping I can do a six month extension on the Tundra, which will put me needing a replacement by the end of August, 2022, and that the landscape will be better by then.

A few years ago you could buy a nice car for that monthly payment.

IMO, the Venza is not far off from being a nice car. I'm not fond of Toyota using the regular 2.5 liter four cylinder hybrid as their main CUV engine. The old-school hybrid Highlander with the V6 looks more appealing (the newest model has the same 2.5 liter powertrain).

Really prefer the additional horsepower of the RAV4 Prime, but if the ones they are building sticker for $50k and it's considered a "good deal" at $2,500 above that, it's really not a good value. Once you hit that stratosphere, I'm sure you can buy a BMW or Audi with similar performance numbers and better dynamics. My interest in the RAV4 Prime was based on the well equipped lower end trim level stickering for $40k-ish, less the $7,500 tax credit. $12.5k buys a lot of gas.

corvette

On a more positive note, Discount Tire patched/plugged the leaky tire in my Prius today, no charge. Since they are about half worn, I had already picked out the model I wanted if the tire wasn't repairable, so I guess I "saved" about $500.

stickguy

of those 2, the red one has Carplay also. A plus to me.

I actually have no real desire to move up to the 6 cyl model on a car I would be keeping long term. the 30 is plenty fine for me.

boomchek

@nyccarguy I feel for you, hope everything works out with the cleanup.

boomchek

stickguy said:

benjaminh said:

I think those both looks good. A Certified BMW is a good idea imho. That way you get a 1-year warranty up to any miles backed by BMW. Worth the money probably. These seem loaded from my pov. Good deal for the money in this market. Fun to drive compared to the other options you're considering.

I feel like a cpo BMW is likely a good bet. An 8-15 year old BMW would be a big gamble, but a three and a half year old CPO car should be good for at least 5 years of driving fun.

well, that or a mid level camry or an EX Civic all about the same price.

and somehow I think you got me to expand my budget from $25k to $30k here. Sneaky.

Though at that price, I might just stick with a (likely overpriced) lease!

If you haven't tried the new Civic, you should. It's actually quite refined and solid for an "economy car." I may be biased because I work at a Honda dealer, but my last new Honda was 16 years ago. Since then I've driven mostly German makes. The new Civic to me feels like a stripped down BMW 3 series with less power and less options, but it has that overall solid feel and great handling for a fwd car. Personally I'd still go for a used C class or 3 series, but that's just me. If I was going for a new car in that range, the Civic would be the one.

benjaminh

Those two BMWs would have had an original list price of almost 50k, and so to get 20k off of that for a 3-year old car seems good in this market. The CPO warranty and financing are also good bonuses.

I just looked at the Consumer Reports rating for this year of BMW 3-series, and overall they liked it quite a lot. A few owners, however, complained of rattles and electrical issues, and so obviously you should test drive the car thoroughly over varied road surfaces and try out the controls and systems in the car. I would ask for their help in pairing your phone so that you can try out CarPlay.

Overall, there are a lot of things that are favorable about a cpo 3-series over a Civic, including more power, better handling, AWD, more luxury, better visibility, etc. There's also something special and some prestige in driving a BMW. The Civic, as you know, will get better mpg on regular rather than premium fuel, and will tend to be more reliable.

Since you already have an SUV, adding a truck might be overkill from my pov. And there's no doubt that driving a BMW is going to be a lot more fun than driving even a 2.0 turbo Maverick. Esp. at your age (which is similar to my age) don't you deserve some fun each time you drive? The BMW has a fold down rear seat and can definitely hold a fair number of smaller items if you load it up. Have you ever in your whole life owned a BMW? Given the number of cars that you've owned it seems like if you can swing it it might be nice to add that experience. You've saved $7k or whatever by living without a car for almost a year, and imho it would be nice to put that into something special.

benjaminh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPbCBJmN-00&t=11s

kyfdx

corvette said:

On a more positive note, Discount Tire patched/plugged the leaky tire in my Prius today, no charge. Since they are about half worn, I had already picked out the model I wanted if the tire wasn't repairable, so I guess I "saved" about $500.

Amazing, huh? Free flat repair can't be beat.

benjaminh

2018 Hyundai Kona length 164"

2021 CR-V 182.1

2018 BMW 3-series 182.5

2022 Civic 184

2021 3-series 185.7

2021 TLX 194.6

2022 Maverick 199.7

kyfdx

oldfarmer50 said:

corvette said:

The Toyota broker did have what was I think a base Venza for $400 a month, which is probably a great deal in today's environment. I'm hoping I can do a six month extension on the Tundra, which will put me needing a replacement by the end of August, 2022, and that the landscape will be better by then.

A few 25 years ago you could buy a nice car for that monthly payment.

Fixed it!

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

oldfarmer50 said:

corvette said:

The Toyota broker did have what was I think a base Venza for $400 a month, which is probably a great deal in today's environment. I'm hoping I can do a six month extension on the Tundra, which will put me needing a replacement by the end of August, 2022, and that the landscape will be better by then.

A few years ago you could buy a nice car for that monthly payment.

IMO, the Venza is not far off from being a nice car. I'm not fond of Toyota using the regular 2.5 liter four cylinder hybrid as their main CUV engine. The old-school hybrid Highlander with the V6 looks more appealing (the newest model has the same 2.5 liter powertrain).

Really prefer the additional horsepower of the RAV4 Prime, but if the ones they are building sticker for $50k and it's considered a "good deal" at $2,500 above that, it's really not a good value. Once you hit that stratosphere, I'm sure you can buy a BMW or Audi with similar performance numbers and better dynamics. My interest in the RAV4 Prime was based on the well equipped lower end trim level stickering for $40k-ish, less the $7,500 tax credit. $12.5k buys a lot of gas.

I wasn’t commenting on the quality of the car but rather the price to acquire it today vs a few years ago. Back then you could BUY a pretty nice car for $400/mo. instead of just leasing it.

I see kyfdx’s and my definition of “nice” are different.

benjaminh

Well, from my pov a Toyota Venza is still a pretty nice vehicle.

The msrp of a 2022 Civic LX with destination is $22,700. Counts as a nice car to me still. Even with a small downpayment it's about $400 a month over 5 years.

stickguy

boomchek said:

stickguy said:

benjaminh said:

I think those both looks good. A Certified BMW is a good idea imho. That way you get a 1-year warranty up to any miles backed by BMW. Worth the money probably. These seem loaded from my pov. Good deal for the money in this market. Fun to drive compared to the other options you're considering.

I feel like a cpo BMW is likely a good bet. An 8-15 year old BMW would be a big gamble, but a three and a half year old CPO car should be good for at least 5 years of driving fun.

well, that or a mid level camry or an EX Civic all about the same price.

and somehow I think you got me to expand my budget from $25k to $30k here. Sneaky.

Though at that price, I might just stick with a (likely overpriced) lease!

If you haven't tried the new Civic, you should. It's actually quite refined and solid for an "economy car." I may be biased because I work at a Honda dealer, but my last new Honda was 16 years ago. Since then I've driven mostly German makes. The new Civic to me feels like a stripped down BMW 3 series with less power and less options, but it has that overall solid feel and great handling for a fwd car. Personally I'd still go for a used C class or 3 series, but that's just me. If I was going for a new car in that range, the Civic would be the one.

We did test drive a new Civic touring a few weeks ago. It was impressive. Nice small car. But hard to wrap my head around a CIvic (non-Si+) with a sticker of $30k. And I would want the touring trim (I forget exactly what, but the EX was missing something I would not buy without). Certainly a reliable purchase though (under warranty, brand new). But there are a lot of options at that price point.

Such as nicely loaded 3 series CPOs with miles in the mid-upper 30s (which still seems crazy to me to pay that much for a well used car with what to me are high miles).

stickguy

benjaminh said:

Well, from my pov a Toyota Venza is still a pretty nice vehicle.

The msrp of a 2022 Civic LX with destination is $22,700. Counts as a nice car to me still. Even with a small downpayment it's about $400 a month over 5 years.

an LX isn't happening. At this point in my life I refuse to drive a strippo model, unless it is something I get really cheap used just to beat around in! Like a PU truck, when they used to be cheap utility vehicles.

au1994

I like the Arteon. The hatchback is a huge plus for me. VW has done nothing to promote it as far as I know. Never seen a print or TV ad for it.

I’d imagine it leases atrociously.

ab348

I thought I read that VW was discontinuing the Arteon, at least in North America?

breld

On the Arteon, I read recently that they actually refreshed it a bit with an upgrade to its horsepower.

breld

Yeah - 300 hp.

It’s an attractive package actually, but you may be able to simply pick up a slightly used A5 Sportback for similar money.

roadburner

benjaminh said:

stickguy said:

well, that or a mid level camry or an EX Civic all about the same price.

and somehow I think you got me to expand my budget from $25k to $30k here. Sneaky.

Though at that price, I might just stick with a (likely overpriced) lease!

I wonder if once in your life you should drive a BMW 3-series? My personal hunch and vote is maybe yes. More fun to drive a BMW than any of the other cars you've considered. Personally I like BMW's SensaTec. No worries on maintenance. Lasts the life of the car. The blue and the red both look very nice to me, but I might lean to the blue just because the red seems to say "give me a ticket." The fact that the blue was in what appears to be a very minor fender bender might give you a tiny bit of negotiation on the price? The blue one has brand new Pirelli tires, which to me is a nice plus. I've never had those tires, but the ratings are very high. Seems a nice touch that they didn't just slap any new tires on the CPO car, but tires that were special. I wonder if that comes down from BMW corporate to do that?

If a car is offered as a BMW CPO and it needs new tires the dealer is required to use OEM tires- meaning a tire wearing the BMW "Star" symbol.
The F30 3ers are nice cruisers with adequate performance, but you really need a 340i with the Track Handling Package and RWD for serious fun. My son's 2018 3er is an xDrive Sport, but he eventually plans to pick up an M240i or a Cayman S for track days.
I'd be tempted by a properly equipped 440i coupe, but I still default to the 2ers.

corvette

Started doing a deep clean on the Prius yesterday and today. The interior smells better already! I’m going to have to take the front seats out in order to get the carpet truly clean. But a lot of stains have come out just using a Shout sprayer. My carpet steamer is at my parents’ house, so I’ll do the last of the cleaning when I get that back.

stickguy

taking it on the track is not on my list of requirements for my next car, so no worries there. And I know that the 2.0t turbo is plenty quick enough to be entertaining, so fine with that.

I actually prefer RWD, but especially around here, it is very rare to see. And usually it ends up being a fairly basic 320i. A nicely equipped 330i S drive is a real unicorn.

Stopped to look at the used 320i to get a baseline (I find it is better to start with a bottom trim to see if it is good enough, because you can always go up the ladder but if you start at the top with all the goodies, hard to go down!) But, turns out it was not there any longer but the Website had not caught up.

Actually then stopped at the dealer and saw the blue one in the pictures up above. Parked next to a 2021 service loaner, in sunset orange (hope the name is right, but I loved the color) so good to compare platforms (both locked though). styling wise, I liked them both, and I am fine with the older model interior (though I guess the digital virtual dash is cool). Have not driven the new one, but I know that the old one drives nice. So pretty much, either one would work for me. Depends on value.

that blue one, a 2018 with 35K miles, was $30,000. A comparable red one, a 2021 with 6k miles, was $42,000. Is 3 years, 30k miles, and a redesign worth that much? Maybe, but it definitely puts it in a different stratosphere of cost.

stickguy

oh, this is the one I stopped to look at that was not available. And to head off the inevitable seats comments, the base ones don't bother me (though I would pick sport seats given a choice) and my wife actually prefers the base seats.

https://www.autolenders.com/used-car-inventory/BMW-3-series-JNU92505

stickguy

I did drive a 2021 Mazda CX-30 since that was on my interest list. only 5,600miles on it. But, pretty base spec (manual seats, no moonroof) but still pretty nice. Auto CC, BLIS and the other common safety stuff.

actually pretty nice. Respectably quick. Comfortable overall. A little road noise on the back road, but ride was good and great steering feel and handling (typical of a Mazda). Roomy enough for a small car. Seats a little narrow though. The wife found them too tight for her, and would likely be unhappy on a longer drive. I actually found the shoulder area a bit narrow, and felt the bolsters, which is not good since I literally live up to my name!

so nice car, would be fine to have, but does not really make sense to spend that much on one for what we need the car for.

stickguy

also realized that taking such a nice car out on our looking (the RDX) is a problem, since I drive something perfectly adequate, then get back into a nicer car and it suddenly seems less desirable! And really no point to spend a lot on something that serves the same role, but that we would not use for regular duty. A sports car or PU actually makes a lot of sense still.

So the Maverick is looking better and better. Too bad no other brand jumped in to add options in that size class. I would be happy with a Santa Cruz too I think, just don't like the current pricing.

so will order the Ford later and go from there. After much discussion with the boss, decided to order the cheaper hybrid. Though that is subject to change up to (or after) I hit the submit button!

roadburner

The thought just occurred to me; my son and I were both 26 when we bought our first BMWs, but mine was 10 years old and needed significant work. My son’s is three years old with a couple of years of warranty left.
Kids these days…

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

oh, this is the one I stopped to look at that was not available. And to head off the inevitable seats comments, the base ones don't bother me (though I would pick sport seats given a choice) and my wife actually prefers the base seats.

https://www.autolenders.com/used-car-inventory/BMW-3-series-JNU92505

That fits your $25k limit and those are low miles. What are you waiting for?