Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

jimbres

I think there's a third factor at play here as well. Back when we (or our forefathers) had to drive those cars on a daily basis, we simply got accustomed to the way they handled. So even though they were flawed, we compensated for those flaws by adjusting the way we drove them.

I'd say that our perceptions have been colored by the inroads that European brands have made in the U.S. market over the past 35 years. In '77, I bought a new '78 VW Rabbit. The car was a maintenance nightmare - it threw a rod in '81 - but when it ran, it was a pure delight to drive. The ride was firm but supple & not at all harsh, the steering (nonpower) was perfectly weighted & the handling was tight & responsive - way ahead of anything that I was used to. It was a real eye-opener for me.

By the late 70s, the Germans (notably MB & BMW) were stealing significant numbers of sales from the domestics, particularly on the coasts, & by the early 80s Detroit started to fight back. Remember the Pontiac 6000 STE, which was billed as a Euro fighter? Then there was the 1st generation Taurus, introduced in '86, which was widely praised in the automotive press for its "European" ride & handling characteristics. By then, a soft, floaty ride & detached handling, characteristics of the traditional large American car, were seen as bad, & Detroit suspension engineers were trying to build Teutonic ride & handling into every new car.

My hunch is that if German cars had never caught on here, our cars today would have pretty much the same road dynamics as they did 40+ years ago.

fezo

I agree with you completely. Unfortunately including the Rabbit experience. Mine was an 80 built in Pennsylvania. It was a ball when it worked. that just wasn't often enough. To this day it's the only car I got rid of with the loan still active - only a three year loan at that.

michaellno

OK, I think I need a bit more feedback / guidance.

I was at the local auto parts store earlier today (trying to get replacement bulbs for my rear center high mounted brake lights), when I mentioned to the guy behind the counter my need to get the timing belt and water pump replaced on my L300.

He gave me the name and number of a mechanic who, he thought, could do the work for less than the quotes I'd been getting.

Anyway, this mechanic and I talked and he's quoting me just over $300 for parts and labor for the whole job.

He says he had 25 years of experience as a mechanic, and has worked for one of the independent shops here in town before going out on his own.

I've asked him to provide me with some references, which he'll email me. In addition, he stands behind his work but doesn't have any sort of written guarantee - "Just bring it back and I'll fix it" he says.

On one hand, I'm tempted by the low price, but the adage "you get what you pay for" also comes to mind.

So, any thoughts about this ..

ghulet

I don't think I've ever heard of a water pump/timing belt job for anything near that, especially not on a slightly obscure car with a basically European (correct me if I'm wrong) engine. I recall you saying a while back that the parts alone were nearly that much, no?
I remember my uncle and I doing that job on my '71 Electra when I was 16; of course, that was a whole different ball of wax, but one of the water pump bolts broke off inside the block. Damn, that was a bit of a nightmare.

jimbres

Jeez, those Rabbits were heartbreakers. I paid $150 (as nearly as I can recall) for optional metallic blue paint that began to peel away (in palm-sized pieces) & fade before the payment book arrived in the mail.

"They all do that", the service manager told me. "You wasted your money".

twinb

A European specialty car shop up the street has been advertising a free timing belt if you pay for the labor, the cost of which is around $1000. I asked if we could do it the other way around, with me paying for the belt and he laughed along with me.

roadburner

My 1975 2002A is not at all fast, but the brakes are great and the handling and ride are exemplary(a previous owner installed Bilstein HDs). Only the lack of A/C keeps it from being a nice daily driver. That said, I'd love to have a 1973 2002 tii; I could drive that puppy every day and never get tired of it:

ghulet

oregonboy

Can you imagine owning such a car in 1973?!? It was revolutionary relative to the state of automotive achievement at the time. And an ORANGE one is just too cool.

As for your 2002A... I respect you man... really, I do. But think what that car would be like with pre-1974 bumpers and the power train out of a 318ti. Yeah, you know what I'm talkin' about.

(note) - My 1st car was a 1967 BMW 1600. I remember "testing out" the brakes on a straight stretch of deserted country road,,,, The deceleration G-force made my glasses slide down my nose! (really!).

I still admire the breed, but they have priced themselves out of my market.

fintail

I saw that car's brother at the BMW Museum:



The M cars interested me more:

oregonboy

The M-cars are great. They are awesome and of great historical importance, but they are trumped by the fact that they were preceded by, introduced by, and fathered by the revolutionary BMW 2002. And the 2002 will remain the icon before which, we must all worship.

- JRW, (high priest at the altar of The Original Immaculate Driving Machine.)

ghulet

oooh, it's my 528e's cousin, with twice as much power (but still in Delphin, I think).
The 2002 is hot, I love orange cars. My parents bought a '71 Datsun 510 in the same color (we also had an orange sofa, and lots of other orange in the house, it was a little modern).

qbrozen

Something is really wrong there. As you saw, the parts alone at a discount cost more than that. Seems to me he is leaving some stuff out, to say the least. He probably is only referring to the belt and water pump. But not replacing the tensioner and pulley could be a fatal mistake.

roadburner

As for your 2002A... I respect you man... really, I do. But think what that car would be like with pre-1974 bumpers and the power train out of a 318ti. Yeah, you know what I'm talkin' about.

You'll get no argument from me. The thing is, I bought the car cheap and my plan was/is to fix the few problems with the car and just use it as a mostly original driver.

I still admire the breed, but they have priced themselves out of my market.

That's why I've always bought used BMWs- with the exception of my 1995 318ti.

roadburner

I saw that car's brother at the BMW Museum That was almost certainly the car that BMW Mobile Tradition built in 2005-2006 at the BMW Museum . Here's another story on that car. Mobile Tradition is now called BMW Classic. It seems that only the German automakers recognize the importance of the heritage and history of their companies.

The M cars interested me more

I had a 1988 M6 that I now wish that I had never sold. On a brighter note, a friend of mine will be selling an immaculate Alpine White E30 M3 this spring:



My friend already has a couple of M3s- he picked this one up on a trade. It's only got 54K miles on it and he's going to replace the aftermarket suspension(the only modification) with either stock parts or a Dinan setup. I've got first dibs on the car. If I get it I'm driving the car year round(except in snow or ice). Like the guys at Motorcycle Classics magazine like to say:

"Don't hide it- RIDE IT"

fintail

I like those early M5s a lot, I remember I had a poster of one when I was a kid, the famous Pirelli ad.

When I was looking at places awhile ago, I looked at some 70s modern style construction that had never been updated....orange countertops...you would have loved it :shades:

fintail

Those M6s and M3s are cool too...I always thought the boxed fender flares did a lot for that car, and the boxy little spoiler is just right.

MB has done unfathomable good work with their Classic Center and heritage efforts...the other Germans are really onto it too nowadays, with all makers having their own museums and many aiding in older vehicle preservation. I should post some other pics from the BMW Museum. It's an amazing place, although I remember the layout kind of confused me.

fintail

A 2002 Turbo could be interesting..how did those hold up? I like the period graphics seen on some of those cars.

tifighter

Yeah, the BMW museum is a weird place...I was more impressed with the Audi museum in Ingolstadt. Very cool place and its attached to the delivery center where european drivers are picking up there cars right off the assembly line; I should put some pictures up. Great factory tour, too. I hear that the MB museum is fabulous. I've been to Stuttgart a few times for business but still have not made it in there. Some day...

fintail

I remember the layout confused me...I don't like guided tours, rather I like to find things myself...and flowing from room to room there was odd. They also didn't have enough motorcycles in easy view there.

I too visited the Audi museum....it's very cool, and a bargain at 2 or 3 Euro, and I remember the delivery area too, in the big forecourt near an entrance to the museum.

The MB museum is fantastic, I spent over 6 hours there. It has everything one could imagine and then some, and even a super cool 3-story MB dealership attached.

kyfdx

So... about how much?

stickguy

coincidentally, my issue of Automobile came today, and Kitman had a column about the Tii and a Triumph Dolomite sprint.

I alwasn't wanted one of those (the sprint), although I have never seen one in person. I still remember though buying a British car magazine at teh Bermuda airport on a vacation with my family back in the mid-70s (yes, I am old).

It had an article about one, and I loved it. partly for the same reason as Kitman (who owns one). In 1975, a stylish sedan with a 16valve 4 was out stuff.

Kind of reminded me of a much more stylish version of our family's '69 Volvo 144s. Also with a 2l 4. Just not the 16 valves, or ability to rev. Or anything passing for sporty pretensions.

He also made a good point about how nice a light (2300lb) 4 door woth a 2l revvy 4 cyl engine was to drive. Nothing like that today

Even adjusting for the weight of safety and expected creature comforts, cars are porkers now.

Wonder how light BMW could made a 5 door 1 series if they stuck in a 4 cyl engine? Still likely wouldn't be much, if any, below 3,000#s

stickguy

I would be all over one if they did make it. I guess giving up on the RWD, the closest option might be the upcoming Focus 5 door?

nippononly

is a major major problem with all the new cars today, I agree. Takes the fun out of dreaming about the next purchase.....

roadburner

So... about how much?

Around $20K...

michaellno

as I-70 is closed due to a rockslide in Glenwood Canyon:



This happened around midnight last night and, apparently, a hole 10' x 20' was made in the roadway. In addition, some of the "rocks" are the size of semi trucks and will need to be blown apart before they can be removed.

Full article here

If you haven't driven this stretch of I-70, I encourage you to do so if you get the chance. Absolutely amazing how they built that piece of road. The canyon isn't wide enough for both the Colorado River as well as 4 lanes of traffic, so in many places, the road is stacked vertically.

boomchek

Wow, that's crazy! Makes you appreciate Mother Nature when she can dump boulders of that size at will. :surprise:

rayainsw

Another of my cars - from long, long ago...
- Ray
Yes, I am old also........

corvette

Wow, a 200 mile detour... That could really make you late for an appointment!

michaellno

Wow, a 200 mile detour.

Yeah, there aren't too many roads in that part of the state.

I think this portion of I-70 wasn't completed until the 1970's sometime. And, there are a couple of places where there are off-ramps but no on-ramps in the same direction. Gotta turn around and go back if you exit the highway!

Here is a map of the detour:



And another picture of the damage caused:

kyfdx

Denver west to Breckenridge...

Do I have to worry about that? (not that I'm leaving for almost three weeks)

michaellno

Denver west to Breckenridge...

No, Breckenridge is east of Glenwood Canyon, so you won't be impacted by the road closure.

Breck is basically at the bottom of the hill after you go through the tunnel underneath the Continental Divide, about 60-90 minutes from Denver.

Glenwood Springs is another 90 minutes + west of Breck - past Vail.

Glenwood Springs is where you turn south (and east) to go to Aspen, since the more direct route to Aspen (Independence Pass) is closed in the winter.

EDIT - given the amount of damage shown in those pictures, it's likely that the repairs are going to take a long time. It's quite likely that the road will be 1 lane in either direction until everything is fixed.

akangl

Well I don't get it until the end of the the month, but hey, its a car! Actually its a 93 Ford Explorer XLT 4WD with 125k on it for $200.......not a bad first car for my son I don't think, lol. It runs great and has been well cared for, only real issue is the front hub needs replaced but the parts are there for it.

kyfdx

And... so, it begins..

corvette

This could be an interesting case study to determine whether CCB syndrome is hereditary.

michaellno

Did anybody have St. Patty's Day in the pool?

:P

fezo

I think I did but I'd have to go back and check....

boomchek

Funny but true!

tifighter

Nobody tell roadburner about this BMW news, okay?

qbrozen

Too late.
They came out with that car quite a while ago.

:P

akangl

And... so, it begins..

LOL, I suppose so. I did look at a 2005 GMC Yukon XL Denali the other day, but I think my Pilot scared it or something, we didn't even make it 1/4 of a mile from the dealership before it overheated and went into limp mode. Too bad really, I liked it, nice truck, only 55k on it. Dealer really wanted my Pilot, offered pretty nice $$$ for it, but um, yeah, no, I think I'll keep it.

oregonboy

I think that BMW would be better off pursuing the low-volume, high-end market, rather than diluting the "brand equity" by building a Mini-based car sporting the BMW twin-kidney grill.

but as long as the brand's patented driving dynamics are present and accounted for, it's hardly the end of the world.

How does one preserve the BMW driving dynamics while switching from RWD to FWD? Can you make a crocodile that has warm feet in a snow storm? :confuse:

gouldn

Can you post a pic of this truck? I'd love to see what $200 buys!

akangl

I will when we get it, honestly its in pretty good shape and runs great other then the minor issues. My son isn't thrilled about the color (deep purple), but he can't be too choosy, lol. It has some minor dings and scratches, the rear bumper is bent from being rearended 3 years ago (which also gave it a reconstruct title). Interior is in really good shape, leather is nice. Not bad for the $$$ really.

guss

For $200 you can't loose. But my nephew bought a 98 Explorer 3 months ago for $1700. Now it is having head gasket issues. To be fair it does have 145k miles and the mechanic my brother took it to before he bought it did not give it a thorough check out.

BTW, I like the deep purple Explorers, and I always thought that would be a great name for a band.

grandtotal

BTW, I like the deep purple Explorers, and I always thought that would be a great name for a band.

Yes, I think you've got something there. "The Explorers", right up there with "The Beetles".

oregonboy

I think that he meant "The Purple Explorers"

ghulet

....the Deep Purple Exploders, er Explorers.

kyfdx

Deep Purple? I think that's taken..

andre1969

....the Deep Purple Exploders, er Explorers.

So, "Smoke on the water...Fire in the sky" does sort of apply here. :shades: