Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

andre1969

One car that I'm going to test drive is a 2006-2008 Mercedes CLK (coupe). I like how there's no pillar whatsoever between the driver and rear window. That must lead to a real airy feeling, and decent visibility. Anybody try one of those?

I've always liked those, although price-wise, they're too blue for my blood. I've only sat in them in auto shows though...never driven one. Very comfy up front, but horribly cramped in the back. From what I remember though, visibility was fairly good. And I was impressed that, for being a true hardtop with roll-down back windows, the rear windows were still a pretty good size. Often back in the old days, auto makers would cheat a bit...on the hardtops, the windows would go down all the way because they were smaller than they were on the more upright sedans.

How are maintenance costs on these beasts, though?

kyfdx

My son's '92 Acura Legend... low belt-line, thin C-pillars... Fantastic visibility.. especially for a new driver..

Local BMW specialist just started advertising this one: It's blue!

Pricey... but, I like it!

fintail

Maintenance is steep - like any other pre-owned German, but cars from the past few years will be easier to live with than older models. MB has ticked upward recently when it comes to quality.

fintail

To the point where a midsized car is gaining on 2 tons. I have to wonder how much of that is safety, and how much of that is isolation that the non-driving majority yearns for.

fintail

Here's some visibility...and it's also blue...no active safety, of course.

kyfdx

That's nice!

Not sure I want to go back 45 years for my daily driver, though.. 12 years is already pushing it!

fintail

I think that car would punish me heavily if I made it into a daily driver...it's in semi-retirement now, sunny Sundays mostly, although it was my everyday car for some time. Good visibility, good safety for the time, and although it looks like it weighs about 5 metric tons, it only weighs in at just about 3000lbs even.

kyfdx

It always comes back to weight...

Fuel efficiency, acceleration, handling.. all improve with less weight.. yet, cars keep getting heavier and heavier...

oldcem

Well - my daily driver weighs in at about 3800 Pounds. Powered by a 300 HP V8 coupled to a 6 speed automatic, its performance is quite satisfying, yet, its fuel economy is excellent. It consistently delivers 30+ MPG running interstate speeds.

Regards:
OldCEM

fintail

Safety is a good excuse for some weight...but I think much of the bloat we see today is just because of lazy or cheap design.

fintail

My similarly heavy ~360hp daily driver with a performance tuned engine and a mere 5 speeds can also get respectable mileage, this from a recent interstate cruise:



I do have to wonder if a few hundred lbs would make a difference.

gouldn

Wow, I see what you're talking about ... all glass!

michaellno

fin, every time I see a picture of your car I'm struck by how good it looks. I know that if I were to see it in person, the flaws would be noticeable, but still, it looks like a great weekend toy.

The MINI went to the dealer today for a full mask (clear bra). Should be done later this afternoon. I'm hoping it gets washed, since it's a bit dirty.

And, I'll be heading to the auto show tomorrow ... not looking for (or at) anything in particular, just wandering around. A buddy of mine is going with me, so we can get into trouble together.

fintail

It's a very photogenic car. For any kind of quality restoration, absolutely everything would need to be redone...but the patina looks pretty good from 10 feet. Too expensive to restore...but the car isn't decayed enough to beg for it. I guess that's not a bad spot to be in.

And yeah, lots of glass...fun on a hot day, but at least I can see where I am going :shades:

oldcem

Fintail - nice ride. Mine is a Jaguar S-Type VDP with the 4.2 V8. I did an 800 round trip run this week with her cruise control set on 70 - 74 MPH. She managed to deliver 30.1 MPG average for the trip on a steady diet of 93 octane gas. I also own a 2010 Honda CRV 2WD. Under the same conditions, the Honda gets 24 - 25 MPG - even with its highly sophisticated 4 cylinder engine and overdrive 5 speed. Kind of makes me wonder about the fabulous gas mileage claims and EPA numbers for midsizers with 4 cylinder powerplants.

Regards:
OldCEM

akangl

The Explorer was pretty much a free car. I've been having a weird feeling about the brakes lately so finally took it in for a brake inspection. Sure enough, the inside of the rotors was gone, basically it formed a W, strangest pattern on a rotor I've seen yet. They said it was from the pads getting down to metal, then someone threw new pads on it trying to "fix" the problem.

So its sitting at a friend's shop waiting for new brakes, new front hubs, a tune up, and a few other minor things. Thankfully he's cutting me a great deal and the old girl should be back on the road for around $500. My son wants to start driving and I want him to be in a safe car with decent brakes so it was time to fork over the $$$ to fix it. Funny thing is I kinda miss driving the Explorer, I was driving it more then the Pilot. The seats are much more comfortable.......go figure.

oregonboy

Kind of makes me wonder about the fabulous gas mileage claims and EPA numbers for midsizers with 4 cylinder powerplants.

Kinda makes me wonder about the aerodynamics of boxy SUVs. Stick the CRV engine in a Civic and see what it does for highway fuel economy.

nippononly

or an Accord...oh wait, they already did that, the two share engines and transmissions! And the Accord is rated 3 points better on the highway. I managed 37 mpg in the Accord once, on a long highway trip with speeds at 70-72, 4 in the car plus luggage, A/C running the whole time.

oregonboy

Kinda what I would expect. The higher the speed, the greater impact that aero has on fuel economy.

roadburner

My 2700 lb. Club Sport gets 30 mpg at 80 mph- and the 1.8 liter four is turning 4000 rpm at that speed. It gets @26 mpg around town. My Mazdaspeed can return @25 mpg if I keep it under 80 and I decline most invitations to participate in "illegal contests of speed"(as the Kentucky Revised Statutes puts it...) :P

oldcem

Have to dissagree - 45 years ago I had a 1937 Dodge Coupe with a flathead 6, 3 speed box, the streamlining of a school bus, and the technical sophistication of a Briggs & Stratton Lawnmower. The car got 28 MPG running interstate speeds (it topped out at 96 MPH - with the late 40's larger flathead I stuck in it). The CRV needs a modest V6 that makes some torque at less than 4000 RPM.

Regards:
OldCEM

mark156

Put the 2001 S500 in the shop for a couple things. Washer fluid box leaking and the battery going dead (84,000 miles). Come to find out, after doing a drain test, the dome light has malfunctioned causing it to spike which drains the battery.

Guess how much for a new dome light? $1,044. I told the guy could he just disconnect it and he said no that it controls other things in the car, etc. and that a warning would be constantly on the dash.

The car is getting traded this fall, maybe for a new 2011 Jaguar XJ.

All and all, the car really has not been too much trouble but when they need stuff, you better open your wallet! :sick:

Mark156

roadburner

The 7 Series and S Class sedans have always been expensive cars to repair; the German engineers like to use those models to display their most complex and intricate solutions to problems that may-or may not-exist.
If you can do the majority of the research/troubleshooting and repairs yourself you can reduce the costs appreciably- if you can't, well...
Sorry.

fintail

Yeah you might get a defective light warning on the dash just for that light. My car once had a dying license plate bulb that would create an alarm on the cluster.

For that money I'd be looking for a junkyard, I know there are scrapped W220s by now.

That new XJ is an insane departure from the old one, that should be a fun ride in supercharged form.

corvette

Jag has had quite a few teething issues with the new XF.

I saw an S-class of that era on eBay, extremely low miles, clean Carfax, etc., and the price seemed low for a clean one-owner car. Look a little further down the Carfax, and you see the mechanical repairs that the dealer reported. The thing never went more than about 14 months between repairs. What really got me was an entry to the effect of "transmission removed to complete repair," dated after the warranty would have expired. Holy smokes!

kyfdx

I got to drive this, today..

Ungodly amounts of torque... Even with rear tires as wide as J-Lo's rear end, you can break the rear end loose, at any time.... You can really take a curve at high speed, but you have to be careful accelerating out of it, because any jump on the throttle and the rear end will wag (though it's easy to catch it).

It has 6 forward gears, though it's hard to figure out why... You can drive it in 4th gear from 5 mph to as high as you'd ever want to go...

Lots of road and wind noise, but the engine is fairly quiet when you stay out of it... Stiff ride, but not overly busy.. You don't really get to play around too much, because once you shift into 2nd, you are just about breaking the law... :surprise:

Next week... I may have the opportunity to drive a Corvette ZR-1.. :shades:

vcheng

Great car. I drove one, shook my head, and got the regular plain vanilla version. Even that is still enough to scare me stiff easily!

kyfdx

At 60 mph in 6th gear, it's only taching about 1100 RPM.. :surprise:

It would be the world's easiest car to learn to drive a stick... Just let out the clutch in any of the first three gears, and you're off... no need for the throttle... It can pull at idle...

vcheng

Old joke, one that you may have heard before:

Guy walks into a dealership, and asks for a drive in a Z06. The salesman says, let me see if I can get a car for you to ride in, and then proceeds to take the guy as a passenger in a Corvette. Several hairraising miles later, they come back to the showroom, with the guy deathly pale. He gets out, and says may be I should try the regular one first. The salesman says, that IS the regular one!

kyfdx

I figure that in the ZR-1, I may never have to get out of 1st gear...

mark156

"If you can do the majority of the research/troubleshooting and repairs yourself you can reduce the costs appreciably- if you can't, well...
Sorry."

Roadburner, nope, can't fix'm myself (and I know you were joking). The '01 S500 has not been a problem at all out of warranty. Early on, the wiring harness had to be changed and after that, it has been smooth sailing until this episode.

We wanted to trade it in summer of '06 for a new '07 S550 but the electronic gadgets were too unappealing. You really don't see that many of the new Mercedes around nor do you see any '00-'06 S500's on the used car lot! People are hanging on to them!

The '95 E320 Cabriolet goes in the shop tomorrow to fix the small scratch I put on the corner of the rear bumper. Accidentally 'touched' a brick wall while backing up in a tight parking lot the other day ($302 estimate). The car only has 37,000 miles and I want to keep it fresh and new looking which it does (white/grey leather/black top).

Mark156

nippononly

No way you're comparing a 70 year old car to the smog-strangled engines of today, right?

oregonboy

He's comparing a primitive transportation device from the dawn of civilization to a modern, electronically controlled, fuel-injected power plant. I suspect either a faulty recollection of an event 45 years ago, or a one time occurrence; downhill with hurricane force winds from behind. :P

The other possibility is that his engine was accidentally released from the top-secret testing lab and sold to the general public bearing the legendary "fish" carburetor, before the Big Oil Companies rounded up all known examples and destroyed them.

kplacer

>> You really don't see that many of the new Mercedes around nor do you see any '00-'06 S500's on the used car lot! People are hanging on to them! <<

Well, that may be. Or it may be that they are all in the shop trying to be fixed, or in people's garages because they have lost so much value that they refuse to unload them and take a huge hit.

Your experience seems unusual with this model. A friend's 2001 S430 has been a nightmare from the day he bought it, and continues to be so to this day. Aside from the well-known electronics issues, he has had a shocking number of mechanical and build-quality problems, like a ticky engine and paint peeling off the body. He is about to finally dump it this summer and take the financial hit.

andre1969

I suspect either a faulty recollection of an event 45 years ago, or a one time occurrence; downhill with hurricane force winds from behind.

My grandparents got 29 mpg out of an '85 LeSabre with a 307-4bbl V-8. Once. And in probably the perfect conditions. It was on a long trip out west, flat desert stretch. Back when the 55 mph speed limit was still in place, which meant if Granddad was driving, he probably kept it at around a constant 60, and Grandmom complaining about him going too fast (but put her behind the wheel, and she'd be going faster than everyone else on the road :surprise: ). And it was spring time, so the weather was probably nice but not too hot, so probably not running the a/c.

That car had a 2.73:1 axle, and I think overdrive was .067:1, for an effective 1.83:1 ratio in high gear.

Now, whenever I drove it, about the best I could get out of that car was 21-22 mpg, and around town, I could sink it below 14. But get it up to speed and keep it there without too much variation, and it would just loaf along.

For comparison, the best I've gotten out of my 2000 Park Ave so far, according to its computer at least, is 27 mpg, last week, when I went with three friends down to Kings Dominion amusement park in Va. There was a lot of stop and go driving though, as that stretch of I-95 seems to be a pain no matter what time of day, plus there was an accident, and coming home I didn't want to deal with I-95 so I took 301, which has a few traffic lights.

I've heard it's not hard to break 30 mpg with these 3.8's, although I wonder if the supercharged version can do it?

mark156

kplacer, it is very unfortunate about your friends S430. Goes to show how much better the S500's were built ...LOL!

And I'm being honest, the '01 S500 has been a very reliable car except for the early-on, under warranty, wiring harness issue. Believe me, this car would have been kicked to the curb years ago if it was problematic. I have extremely low tolerance for poor performing cars.... hence, my new-at-the-time '81 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale Brougham Diesel... Total Junk. See, my lack of GM purchases over the years have just about put them out of business single handily. )

I guess I'm old school because the new Mercedes designs just don't 'do it' for me anymore. If the new Jaguar XJ doesn't pan out (after a test drive and closer look as I haven't seen one in person yet), it may be the BMW 750il that might work. If there was a Bentley dealer here in TN like at my home in CA, there would be a new Bentley Continental Flying Spur in the garage, guaranteed!

Mark156

fintail

Some early W220s can be horrible money pits, but a lot of them survived relatively trouble free too. The newer ones seem to have much less in the way of problems (but more than zero...it's a German car). Those cars sold in large numbers (for an S class), they were around during the false boom and moved on the lots. If they were all bad, there would be broken down ones littering driveways and roadsides, and they'd be worth much less than they actually are.

If I had a 9 year old car that was perpetually unreliable, I would have dumped it long ago. I drove a 3 year old W220 in 2005, and thought about buying it...but the complexity scared me off, and I would have had to stretch a little to buy it. I am glad I held off.

If you're a tall person, you'll find the new style 7er to have excellent seats.

ghulet

though I've never owned one, I did rent '99-ish Buick Regals (non-supercharged) on two occasions (trip from Chicago to Tennessee and back, and a Chicago to Phoenix trip; on the return I had a Bonneville, same engine I think). I was astonished at how well they did on the highway: the 'second' Regal, in particular (to Phoenix, mostly flat land) did get 30mpg or very close (two people, not too much luggage). The first rental, going to Tennessee, included lots of mountain driving, and at one point four occupants, so I didn't measure the mileage, but am sure it was considerably worse.

oldcem

My point is - the old Dodge made torque, but, low HP. Over the years I've owned 3 Accords, a Civic, a CRV, a Ford Fiesta (German), a Vega, and a Chevette. My all time mileage champ so far remains a 1975 Oldsmobile Starfire (clone of the Monza 2 + 2) with a Buick 231 CID V6 with a 2 BBL carb, turbo 350, and 2.56 rear gears. She consistently delivered mileage in the high 30's. Driving interstates through the mountains where I live kills the mileage on the 4's because they have to scream their guts out to climb hills.

Regards:
OldCEM

kyfdx

I can see it... One big advantage that Starfire had was low weight....

My '82 Accord hatch got 33 - 36 mpg on every tankful, until it got old, and started having carb issues (only 31-32, after that..)..

But, very light, and no A/C.... plus, once it started to rust, there was less and less weight, as time went along.. :P

oldcem

Hate to tell you but I bought the Dodge when I was 14 years old and restored it myself. Paid for the parts with my $0.50/hour job working at a drug store part time. Drove it until the end of my first year of college and then sold it. The old Dodge got me to high school every day (25 mile round trip), and, on my tight budget, I was very cognizant of her fuel economy. For her day, the Dodge was pretty advanced - had hydraulic brakes( Ford didn't), had an in-dash factory AM radio, a heater that actually worked, and a crank-out windshield. Primitive - you never rode in a Model A Ford in the winter - did you?

Regards:
OldCEM

andre1969

My point is - the old Dodge made torque, but, low HP.

One of my friends used to have a 1950 DeSoto Custom with a flathead-6 and the Fluid-Drive semi-automatic transmission. I think the displacement was something like 236.6 CID, and hp was around 112 gross. It was slow as molasses on a cold winter day from, say, 0-60, but once you got up to cruising speed, it seemed to perform just fine. Holding the hills, passing power, and so forth seemed just fine. I dunno how much torque it actually had, although engines of around that displacement were usually good for around 190-210 ft-lb I guess...maybe more as those old engines tended to have a long stroke.

Maybe the transmission and rear axle were geared just right to keep it at its peak torque range at highway speeds?

Now, I have no idea what kind of fuel economy it got, but I was impressed at how well it performed, all things considered. And when you figure that car probably weighed 3800 lb or more, and 112 hp gross is probably more like 80-90 net, all the more impressive.

I've heard that in the old days, Studebakers tended to be mileage champs, and it was easy to get them up into the 20's. The only first-hand experience I have with a 50's car is my '57 DeSoto Firedome, 341-2bbl Hemi, and it would get around 13-14 mpg around town, maybe 16-17 on the highway. I was actually impressed by the around-town figure, as I've had plenty of cars of similar weight/displacement, and they'd get more like 10-11.

oldcem

The original engine in my Dodge, I think, was rated at about 70 - 80 HP. I have no idea what the replacement engine put out. The shop that put it in for me told me that it was a late 40's Dodge truck engine. It was about 3" longer than the original because they had to move my radiator up into the nose farther, and dish in the firewall a bit to clear the back of the head. Their best guess was about 120 HP. The thing made so much torque that the car could easily move out from a dead stop in 3rd gear. The original carb was a modest 1 bbL Stromberg, and, after the engine swap, I replaced it with a larger Ball & Ball 1 bbl off of a 50's something Chrysler product. I found out it topped out at 96 the hard way. I was running down one of the local highways one night flat out, speedo off the scale, and enjoying the enhanced performance. Didn't know the headlights behind me aways back was my father in his Olds. Got my **s chewed off, but, then he helped me replace the light bulb headlights with sealed beam units, so I could see better at night.

Regards:
Oldengineer

mark156

Picked up the '95 E320 Cabriolet with the repaired bumper and it looks like it's never been touched. The tech was really impressed with the condition of the E.

Also in the same day, picked up the '01 S500... all working good now. The actual dome light part was $600. Needed a new hose/bushing for the squirter box, new battery and diagnostic time/labor/tax... all and all was $1,400. I think the car is good to go for a little while. The car really does look good (black with tan leather), 84,000 miles.

Motorhome home trip just around the corner..... going to Las Vegas for almost a week. :shades: The last time I was there (twice this year)...didn't gamble one penny (it can be done). Saw the Elvis Cirque du Soleil show...which was pretty good. But the girl playing Priscilla was a black girl?? What? :confuse: It's like getting a white guy to play Sammy Davis Jr. But, the show was entertaining.

Mark156

roadburner

My local BMW dealer just took in a 2007 335i sedan with high miles(97K), and they are only asking $20,000. The miles don't bother me but the the blasted thing is a slushbox... :mad: :mad: :mad:

boomchek

Mark, it seems like you look after your vehicles fairly well. I can't believe the dome light was so much on the S500 ! Was it the whole housing they replaced?

I guess that's why there are many of these cars for sale for cheap because people can't afford to look after them and they end up getting neglected. Hence you see them for sale with half the electrical items not working and half the dashboard lit up with warning lights.

Out of curiousity, do you usually keep all of your cars insured at all times for driving? Or do you keep some in storage during parts of the year? How do you decide what to drive and when?

jayrider

roadburner -- have you checked ebay? Saw an absolutely beautiful 06 stick with 97k miles for 18k. Sport 330i. The interior was super. Sport seats etc. Searched 06-08 330/335 manual. Very nice.

roadburner

jayrider,
Yeah, I monitor eBay, but I really want to see and drive a car if I'm going to spend much over $5000.

stickguy

so, take a road trip.

where is the 97K one?

stickguy

well, I think I found it, if it is silver and in Morristown, NJ. Looks nice, but it is an Xi so AWD. Other than that, quite interesting. And listed at the dealer (used car place) for $16,995.

They also had 2 volvo wagons I really liked. A 2007 V70 2.5T (hard to find) with 51K, and what is listed as a 2006 V70 T5 (even rarer) with only 32K, in gray, but no T5 badges on it (and no mention of the turbo engine in the listing). So not quite sure if that is legit or not.

But, the 2007 (black over tan, looks nice on this car) with lots of options, for only 17K. Tempting.