Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

ghulet

....(HATE those wheels, and notice lack of interior photos) yet interesting and inexpensive (not many SC300 5-speeds were built anyway, let alone made into a hideous convertible by someone with more money than taste):

link title

tjc78

And I think the HUD is pretty cool

My buddy had that in his Grand Prix (actually both of them). I drove it a few times, its pretty neat. Is that feature gone now? I don't hear about it anymore in new cars.

fintail

It doesnt look like much money was spent on that conversion...it looks decent with the top down, horrible and amateurish with the top up. And I love the wheels :P

fintail

BMW has a HUD system, my 7er rental had it in Germany. It's pretty cool, as it is an active system and will post the speed limit for that stretch of road, along with navi instructions.

tjc78

OK, the owner of the company I work for has a new 7. I'll have to ask him if it has it. Recently I was in it with him, it was raining and he was manually adjusting his wipers. I said this thing must have auto wipers. His comment was, I have enough trouble turning on the radio.....

andre1969

I was talking with a Buick rep at the DC auto show back in February, and she said that the HUD feature went away for awhile, because they made some kind of change to the windshield that didn't work well with the HUD display. Some kind of lamination or something, maybe? But for 2010 (or maybe even 2009) they supposedly started offering it again.

fintail

I doubt the US version has the speed limit indicators, but the nav stuff seems like it would carry over. You can tell from the outside of the car easily, there's a panel on top of the dash behind the instrument hump.

I think I remember the wipers on that car. I think it is one click up for auto, further clicks for manual.

If it's a new style (F10) 7er, the radio controls should be able to operate independent of the iDrive. I was able to handle it, and I tested myself by not switching it over to English.

jayrider

ghulet -- for fun and amusement go to ebay motors and click used [all cars] then no reserve then lowest price. Start working your way up the list. Really liked the hearse with the casket included.

fintail

I took a zillion pics on my trip, many random driving shots...

Here is the BMW HUD with speed limit on the far left, then speed, and navi directions on the right

Here it is with the unlimited speed symbol on the left, speed, and navi arrow on right

You can tell I was a little fascinated with this the first few days I had the car :shades:

tjc78

Nice shots, just cruisin' along at around 125 mph, sweet!

breld

Just an update on my search after selling my 530xi a couple of weeks ago.

After several test drives, mostly of Miatas and Z4's (I threw in a Genesis coupe in there for kicks, since it was at the same dealership as Mazda), I decided to go with a Miata.

Overall, I thought the Z4 (drove both an M and a 3.0si) was more comfortable (and clearly more powerful) than the Miata, but for the purpose the car will serve (fun, weekend car), I thought the Miata provided as much in the way of the fun-factor, and was more practical, certainly from a cost factor.

So I bought a new '09 soft-top Miata last night. They had great incentives to clear out the last of the '09's which made it hard to resist going new.

It was hard resisting the Z4 M though - while certainly not "cheap" from an objective perspective, they seem to be great deals on the used market, particularly if they're CPO.

boomchek

That's gotta be the most oddball combo for that Lexus. 5 speed and a hacked off top. Wheels look totally out of place on that car (angular design vs car's round shape).

rayainsw

Had a HUD - on Pontiacs - and on a 2007 'Vette.
Nice.

Never displayed this, though:

"Here it is with the unlimited speed symbol "

Darn.....
- Ray
Still looking into Euro Delivery of an Audi......

michaellno

Congrats, Bruce!

Did you get your Miata at McDonald?

breld

No - I ended up at Mazda of Lakewood on Colfax. I wasn't terribly fond of that dealership based on a prior experience, but it's the only dealership in the area that had any '09's leftover.

fintail

Driving heaven, let me tell ya. It's actually fun to have to pay attention and make an effort to drive. Who would have imagined?

fintail

The circle with slashes through it has to be the best road sign.

I visited the Audi Museum, and the customer delivery lot is adjacent to it. Very high class facility, worthy of a visit even if one isn't buying a car.

michaellno

Picture this:

Driving on a highway in a major city during rush hour. You're probably traveling around 40-55 MPH, depending on traffic conditions. Listening to some music, or perhaps some drive time radio.

Suddenly, without notice and for no apparent reason, your car simply stops running. No power steering, very little braking ability. You come to a stop in traffic and turn on your hazards. You turn the key off, then restart the car and drive home.

This, my friends, is what happened to my daughter in her '06 ION yesterday on her way home from college. You may remember that she had a similar incident happen to her a month or two back. We took the car to the dealer, where they couldn't find anything wrong.

I jump on the internet and find that this isn't the only occurrence of this happening to ION owners. There is an entire thread on a dedicated Saturn website where folks talk about how their car simply stops running and the dealer cannot find anything. Lots of theories - a heavy keyring might cause the key to move in the ignition switch and cause the car to stop running; one person simply disconnects his battery for 10 minutes and the problem goes away (until the next time it happens). Ignition modules replaced. Lots of head scratching, but no permanent solutions.

As you can imagine, wife and daughter are NOT happy and are ready to ditch the ION -- before she goes back to school on Monday.

So, we do a bit of research and settle on the Kia Forte. About the same size as the ION, killer warranty, lots of features (bluetooth, aux and USB jacks), good safety rating. We want an EX (mid-level) trim, as it comes with power windows, locks and a keyless remote. ABS and TC are standard. The only options on the EX are leather (?), a fuel economy package (5-speed auto vs. 4, low rolling resistance tires, lightweight alternator) and a convenience package (alloy wheels and a sunroof). None of these are necessary for us.

MSRP (w/ destination) is $17,690. Invoice is $16,885 and TMV for my area is $16,923. There is, until Monday, $1000 cash back from Kia. In addition, there is a $500 cash back for a competitive trade in (the ION qualifies), and, since we're thinking of putting this in the daughter's name, there is a $400 college grad rebate.

So, that takes us to a tick over $15K before taxes and trade in. I need to call and get the payoff on the Saturn, but the last statement shows the unpaid balance of around $4600 before the last payment was applied. Edmunds shows the trade in value of the ION around $7K, while KBB pegs it around $5500. I thought I'd start at $6500 and maybe take $6K - hey, the ION only has 34K on it and is in pretty decent condition, except for a gouge on the front bumper - maybe a few hundred to fix it.

Will call our credit union to see if the daughter can qualify for a loan - we may have to cosign, and we'd make the first year of payments (which is how much longer we had on the ION loan), then the daughter would take over from there.

I think we'll head to the closest Kia dealer this afternoon to test drive, then get our numbers in order, clean up the ION nice and pretty, and pull the trigger tomorrow (no car sales on Sunday in Colorado).

Even though I'm renewing my membership in CCBA, this isn't exactly how I wanted it to happen.

Have I missed anything?

lilengineerboy

When did the G20 start being based on the Altima? I know the earlier version was based on the Sentra, with the SR20DE that was in the SE-R...

kyfdx

Out of your choices, I'd go for the Protege or the Maxima/I30....

The Maxima will be hard to find with a stick, and the I30 impossible, I would imagine..

lilengineerboy is right... The G20 is based on the Sentra, not the Altima..

And, the Altima? yuck..

jayrider

Can't think of anything you missed michaell except the amount of patience you might need to get it done at the Kia dealer. If yours is like most around here get ready for all kinds of shenanigans. Good luck -- the Forte is well reviewed. You also might want to check out hyundai compacts.

michaellno

The plan is that today, we get the paperwork / numbers in line, and the daughter cleans out and cleans up the ION to prepare it for trade in. We would head to the dealer tomorrow morning to test drive and work the deal. I'm hoping that the dealer we are going to - not the one closest to us, mind you - is not of the low brow type. But, we'll see. I'll call them later today to verify inventory.

Update: the new payoff on the ION is just under $4400. The dealer website uses "Black Book" to evaluate trade in values and showed a range of $4400-6200 for the ION. Intellichoice shows no trade in value; apparently not enough information in their database. I'm still hoping for $6000-6500 on the trade.

The dealer we are looking at shows 6 EX automatics in inventory - 4 are red, one silver and one titanium (gray?).

Internet prices range from $14,488 to $15,488 - not sure if this includes the $1K rebate or not, but I'm still hoping that we would qualify for the extra $900 in promos, not to mention the equity in the ION, and the sales tax credit we get for trading in. Our sales tax is 7.5%, so that can save us a bit of money as well.

tifighter

I'd expect to hear that the advertised internet prices include the rebate, and would ask for a detailed breakout. As you know, some screamer ads include all possible incentives, even when they cannot be combined. The trade might be a bit of a fight. You clearly know what you are doing; you'll get it done.

I like the new Forte hatchback that Kia just showed at the NY auto show this week. Won't be out for awhile, but it looks sharp.

fezo

If they are advertising a price it contains every possible rebate there is. In the fine print it will tell you that in addition to being a recent college graduate you must be active military and a left handed albino.

Get your suit of armor ready! Nice car, though. Pictures of teh new Optima look fabulous.

A seal walks into a bar. The bartender says "what'll ya have?" The seal replies "Anything but a Canadian club on the rocks."

michaellno

Another update:

Have had a couple of talks with a salesman ... here are the latest quotes:

2010 Forte EX automatic with fuel economy package (5-speed auto, low resistance tires) - $15,488

2009 Optima LX automatic - $13,500

Both prices are inclusive of any rebates we qualify for .. I suspect the only area to haggle on is the trade.

It's funny -- he asked if we own the ION free and clear. I told him no. He asked how much we owe on it. I responded by telling him it didn't matter -- it's worth what it's worth. Their website quoted a max of $6200 .. I told him I wanted $6500, based on other research I've done.

The trade may kill the deal. I'm afraid that once they see it, they'll lowball me with something like $5K and we'll be too far apart to make a deal. I'll go as low as $6K on the trade (OK, maybe $5700-5800), which would give us $1300 - 1600 in equity.

Both cars have ABS, power accessories, and aux/USB inputs. I know the Forte has Bluetooth; it's an option on the Optima and don't know if it's included or not.

I told the daughter about all this .. she's intrigued by the Optima, as it costs less, but I told her it would translate to maybe $25-35 per month on the payment, I suggested she get what she likes.

Also scoped out the Rio ... but, it's harder to find one with power accessories and ABS.

And, yeah, I've seen pictures of the new Optima and think it's a real looker myself. But, this is basic appliance transportation for the kid, and she's paying the freight this time around. Mom and I want her to have ABS / TC, plus remote keyless entry; everything else is just gravy.

michaellno

Did I move to Florida and missed the announcement?

I just called the dealer to ask about their doc fee.

Hold onto your seats folks ....

$698

He tells me "hey, when you're getting a car for $13,500, you gotta make money somewhere" and "it's not something that I like to say, but it has to be said".

I almost feel like I need to shop that fee almost as hard as I shop the price.

Yowza!

fezo

Wow! That's a heck of doc fee. At least they should throw in a palm tree with it.

I would think good deals would be there for the Optima for the same reason you can steal 2010 Sonatas. Old design; time to clear 'em out. They are perfectly fine cars with everything you want on them.

Yeah, I'd shop that doc fee. MY State has a $75 cap on doc fees. That's what we paid on the Camry. $75 of profit I can grant them. $698 is an entirely different matter.

Could be worse. Could be $700.....

michaellno

$75 of profit I can grant them. $698 is an entirely different matter.

Could be worse. Could be $700.....

Ha, ha, hardy-ha-ha.

My old Saturn dealer had a fee of $489.50, so I know they're pretty high here in Colorado.

But, I think there is one Honda dealer who doesn't charge a doc fee .. too bad the wife doesn't like Honda's.

EDIT: fezo, the $75 is the limit in NY .. there is no limit in NJ, according to Edmunds:

What fees should you pay?

tifighter

$698

That isn't ridiculous. It is ri-DONK-ulous!

I said this to Fezo when he was looking a few weeks ago; a year-old ex-rental Sonata GLS w/20k miles can be had in my neck of the woods for $10K all day long. I like the Forte, but the Sonata could be worth a look...

fezo

Yeah, my experience was actually $11 - 12K on the Hyundais. We almost went that way.

fezo

Yeah. We bought in New York. Just over the border. With no maximum on teh doc fee in NJ they are up there but not as high as you're dealing with. At least not the last time I bought from a dealer here three years ago.

michaellno

I said this to Fezo when he was looking a few weeks ago; a year-old ex-rental Sonata GLS w/20k miles can be had in my neck of the woods for $10K all day long. I like the Forte, but the Sonata could be worth a look...

I hear ya, but the wife prefers new cars - new car warranty, no issues of how the previous owner (private or corporate) took care of the car.

I did call another Kia dealer .. fee there is "only" $499, so I've asked them for a quote on the Forte and '09 Optima as well.

michaellno

Just got the call back from the other dealer .. for the Forte EX Auto with FE package is quoted at $15,250. But, it's only available in Silver, whereas the daughter wants Titanium (dark gray). Silver would probably be her second choice.

corvette

Does the Optima you're looking at have ABS? I think it was standard (along with ESC) on the Sonata, but optional on the Optima.

fezo

I remember that about your wife on the new car thing. Personally I think that's nuts but we need people like her to feed the supply chain so teh used cars become available for the rest of us.

I've only bought three new cars that I can think of. Both of the two worst cars I've ever had were two of those three. That's not really a commentary on new cars as much as it is confirmation that you learn along the way. I've bought repeatedly from the brands that have treated me well but have only ever had one VW and one Ford.

stever

What did you have besides the Windstall?

fezo

A 1980 VW Rabbit made in Pennsylvania. The only car I've ever gotten rid of with payments still on it.

The third new car was the 00 Accord that my daughter still drives.

Add one more new. The 02 Ody we had was bought new. The 04 we currently have was a CPO. The other cars in the current fleet are the 99 Celica that I bought from a private party through Ebay and the 07 CPO Camry that we bought last Saturday.

stever

Ah yes, I went backpacking out in Colorado around then, and met the trip leader for the first time at the trailhead. He was wrenching on his Rabbit at a campground when we found him. :shades:

qbrozen

I gotta pace myself!

Let's see.... this '85 MR2 I just bought today makes 5 within 14 months. And now back to 6 in the driveway/garage.

fezo

Glad to see the baby is slowing you down....

ghulet

I think the Altima and G20 did share the same engine, at least for a while (the 2.4, 140hp thing). Both good cars. I have a friend with a '98 Altima (VERY low miles, nice shape) but he still INSISTS on having it repaired at the dealer (I know, I don't get it, either). Last repair bill, ~$4k.....I didn't know whether to console him (he didn't seem to care, at all) or bust out laughing. Jeez, the thing is probably worth that on a good day.....it needed brakes, tires and a radiator, as far as I know. I hope he at least had a water pump and timing belt thrown in for that dough.

tifighter

I'm pretty sure G20 shared the 2.0 twin cam motor from the Sentra SE-R and not the Altima engine, hence the '20' in the name. Strong engines, and I think they have a timing chain...

bumpy

The G20 was a rebadged Primera, which was the car Nissan developed to replace the Altima (Bluebird) in the European market. As such, it had front and rear multi-link suspension and the super sweet SR engines, rather than the more pedestrian KA series of the Altima. Both engines had timing chains, though the KA likes to eat the chain tensioner once it gets up past 150,000 miles.

kplacer

I had one of them new... first new car I ever bought. Mine was silver.

Fun car, sort of like driving a go-cart on the street, but not practical of course. I was glad for the warranty because it was troublesome. After 4 years, I was happy to sell it.

lilengineerboy

Let's see.... this '85 MR2 I just bought today makes 5 within 14 months. And now back to 6 in the driveway/garage.

How did you find a non-total rust bucket MR2 from that era? I was looking for an MR2 for a friend last time I was in CA and the 80's ones out there had surface rust.

ghulet

I take it that meant you have a first-generation MR2? Cool cars; I had a friend who had one (may still, haven't talked to him in a while), but it was....an automatic. Oh, why? Also, when I was delivering pizzas, one guy had a red Mista-two, stick. Sold it to another pizza guy (this was about eight years ago) for (Q, don't be mad, this thing was a bit rusty) $600, I think. Sad thing, the friend who now wants to get rid of his '98 SAAB 900SE turbo, sold his '88 CRX-Si to another one of my pizza buddies (also, $600, and it ran great but was a lil rusty, but not-at-all bad).

Sandman6472

Both are nice cars and probably have killer warranties like all the Hyundai products. Wouldn't mind either one as a daily driver. Plan to show both of these to he wife when we begin her search. Their quality is probably up to Honda/Toyota levels which is a grreat thing.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

qbrozen

How did you find a non-total rust bucket MR2 from that era?

Strange luck, I suppose. 94k original miles and I bought it from the original owner (well, not directly. it was kind of sold through a repair shop, but the title was still in his name). Has mostly original shiny paint, too, so it obviously spent alot of time in a garage. The only rust I've found is just surface rust on the inside fender lips that has been "touched up." So I'll just be sanding those down, priming, and spraying and it will be fine for years to come.

Think of it. I have not 1 but 2 mid-80s Japanese cars with all of their metalwork in tact ... in New Jersey! I think I'll have to stay indoors from now own during lightning storms!

michaellno

The daughter has a new car and the Saturn is gone.

More details to follow, along with pictures (if I can get any taken before she heads back to school).

Oh, one other thing - I paid $0 in doc / dealer handling fees.

stickguy

Man, I want a new car at some point. Our odyssey is 5.5 years now (56K), and my accord is 4.5 years (55K). Certainly not worn out, but hey, that's a long time, right?

If it wasn't for the 2 cars I bought for my son (a contour, then a TL, and that was in December 2008), I would really be going stir crazy!

Once Q stops skating them out from under me, I might actually get off the schnied.