Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, but I found out this morning that one does not get a trade in tax credit for trading a lease in WA. There is a carve out in the code that isn’t on their consumer site.

I think it's that way for every state that taxes the monthly payment on a lease.

stickguy

NJ actually has you pay the tax up front (calculated for the lease cost somehow, not on the sales price) just like if you purchase. You can roll it into the payment of course, but the payment is not taxed. So if you sell the car early, it is gone. You also can't trade in a lease for any kind of sales tax credit.

also, I would be fine leasing a demo (who cares, you aren't keeping the car). But only of course if they monthly payment was lower to reflect it.

laurasdada

I traded my '13 Jag XF with the original battery, so got ~87 months of charge.
With the cold weather, I've noticed the expected diminished electric range when in EV mode in the A7. I drive all electric locally, then hybrid for anything longer than a 30 mile trip. I haven't tried the battery saver mode yet.
And, last night, on the way back from the grocery store, the MMI screen got stuck in loading (second time this has happened, first time took a trip to the dealer for an update). Perhaps an over the air update? Perhaps stale electrons at the Volta charging station in the parking lot?
If it's not back today, I'll try a reset. If not, good to be under warranty!

carnaught

Saw the new Ioniq 5 in person, sat in it and chatted with the salesman by appointment per my refundable deposit with (snarky voice) “Hyundai Concierge”. The car looks decent enough and is roomy even in the backseat for my 6+ ft. self. The materials were okay, with many hard surfaces and the door panels felt solid with good workmanship. Only the entry level SE’s were present. After I inquired about about the top model, Limited, I was quickly told that they “were all sold”. I replied, “not forever”, then specifying that he meant all the Limiteds en route to them. He then snapped back if I was aware that they were being sold “ONLY for $5k above MRSP” as the dealership had to pay MRSP for them, saying “there is no invoice cost for the dealership”. When I told him I also wanted to see the Tucson Hybrid, he quickly uttered that these were going for a 5% premium over sticker. I didn’t get any further in asking what their doc fee was knowing that a competitor in the area was asking $799, but indicated that while I knew why they were asking these premiums, they to me were a total deal-breaker. Told him there was no need to drive them and I left. What a turn-off 🤨. If interested, your results may vary 🙃.

P.S., getting my $100 deposit back.

mjfloyd1

breld said:

This doesn't seem like a crazy price for what it is (even taking into account the Carfax ding)...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2012-bmw-328i-wagon-12/

Two car fax dings but it does have a 330 intake manifold and a turner Ecu flash making it a 330 equivalent

breld

@carnaught -

Ugh! So tired of the arrogant attitude at these dealerships. And the stupid things they say.

Wife and I went out looking at fun cars today (after a nice breakfast with @michaell). She wanted to look at a used MINI hardtop - a 2012 Cooper S, manual, 79k miles. It was at a Lexus dealership, asking about the same as we paid for essentially the same car 5 years ago with half the miles.

We then stopped at a Honda dealership, as I wanted to get a feel for their process for getting a Civic Si. They have one coming in at this point, not taking deposits, and they will put $5,000 of accessories on it (but sell it for MSRP and suggested retail on the accessories).

But while we were there, we saw this and they happily handed us the keys for a test drive…

https://www.planethonda.com/inventory/used-2004-honda-s2000-base-rwd-2d-convertible-jhmap21424t002638/

I actually really enjoyed driving it and was somewhat surprised how nicely it drove with just under 100k miles. But $27k? No way.

stickguy

I am really bummed still my other BIL took my BILs S2000 when he upgraded to the Cobra. Otherwise I would have been next on the list for dibs. Definitely worth a lot more then he got for it 3-4 years ago.

Putting on a bunch of accessories is better than just ADM. At least you are getting something for the money.

tjc78

Was causally talking to my wife about the 4XE…. So naturally she says “couldn’t that replace the S60?”

Lol

qbrozen

@carnaught said:
Saw the new Ioniq 5 in person, sat in it and chatted with the salesman by appointment per my refundable deposit with (snarky voice) “Hyundai Concierge”. The car looks decent enough and is roomy even in the backseat for my 6+ ft. self. The materials were okay, with many hard surfaces and the door panels felt solid with good workmanship. Only the entry level SE’s were present. After I inquired about about the top model, Limited, I was quickly told that they “were all sold”. I replied, “not forever”, then specifying that he meant all the Limiteds en route to them. He then snapped back if I was aware that they were being sold “ONLY for $5k above MRSP” as the dealership had to pay MRSP for them, saying “there is no invoice cost for the dealership”. When I told him I also wanted to see the Tucson Hybrid, he quickly uttered that these were going for a 5% premium over sticker. I didn’t get any further in asking what their doc fee was knowing that a competitor in the area was asking $799, but indicated that while I knew why they were asking these premiums, they to me were a total deal-breaker. Told him there was no need to drive them and I left. What a turn-off 🤨. If interested, your results may vary 🙃.

P.S., getting my $100 deposit back.

Sooo… what was the deposit for?? I would never give a despot just to LOOK at a car.

oldfarmer50

breld said:

@carnaught -

Ugh! So tired of the arrogant attitude at these dealerships. And the stupid things they say.

Wife and I went out looking at fun cars today (after a nice breakfast with @michaell). She wanted to look at a used MINI hardtop - a 2012 Cooper S, manual, 79k miles. It was at a Lexus dealership, asking about the same as we paid for essentially the same car 5 years ago with half the miles.

We then stopped at a Honda dealership, as I wanted to get a feel for their process for getting a Civic Si. They have one coming in at this point, not taking deposits, and they will put $5,000 of accessories on it (but sell it for MSRP and suggested retail on the accessories).

But while we were there, we saw this and they happily handed us the keys for a test drive…

https://www.planethonda.com/inventory/used-2004-honda-s2000-base-rwd-2d-convertible-jhmap21424t002638/

I actually really enjoyed driving it and was somewhat surprised how nicely it drove with just under 100k miles. But $27k? No way.

OMG! $27k for an 18yo car with 98k miles. A few years ago that car would be $7500 or less. Usually 15-18 years is the bottom of the depreciation curve in my experience. That’s certainly becoming a rare car but even a Honda will start needing repairs after 100k.

stickguy

not the only Japanese car going up as a collectible. Supras doing the same thing (well, some of them!)

stickguy

qbrozen said:

@carnaught said:

Saw the new Ioniq 5 in person, sat in it and chatted with the salesman by appointment per my refundable deposit with (snarky voice) “Hyundai Concierge”. The car looks decent enough and is roomy even in the backseat for my 6+ ft. self. The materials were okay, with many hard surfaces and the door panels felt solid with good workmanship. Only the entry level SE’s were present. After I inquired about about the top model, Limited, I was quickly told that they “were all sold”. I replied, “not forever”, then specifying that he meant all the Limiteds en route to them. He then snapped back if I was aware that they were being sold “ONLY for $5k above MRSP” as the dealership had to pay MRSP for them, saying “there is no invoice cost for the dealership”. When I told him I also wanted to see the Tucson Hybrid, he quickly uttered that these were going for a 5% premium over sticker. I didn’t get any further in asking what their doc fee was knowing that a competitor in the area was asking $799, but indicated that while I knew why they were asking these premiums, they to me were a total deal-breaker. Told him there was no need to drive them and I left. What a turn-off 🤨. If interested, your results may vary 🙃.

P.S., getting my $100 deposit back.

Sooo… what was the deposit for?? I would never give a despot just to LOOK at a car.

I think it was to get your name on the first dibs list.

28firefighter

Finding an unmolested S2000 is nearly impossible, so they command $$$.

mjfloyd1

@breld said:
@carnaught -

Ugh! So tired of the arrogant attitude at these dealerships. And the stupid things they say.

Wife and I went out looking at fun cars today (after a nice breakfast with @michaell). She wanted to look at a used MINI hardtop - a 2012 Cooper S, manual, 79k miles. It was at a Lexus dealership, asking about the same as we paid for essentially the same car 5 years ago with half the miles.

We then stopped at a Honda dealership, as I wanted to get a feel for their process for getting a Civic Si. They have one coming in at this point, not taking deposits, and they will put $5,000 of accessories on it (but sell it for MSRP and suggested retail on the accessories).

But while we were there, we saw this and they happily handed us the keys for a test drive…

https://www.planethonda.com/inventory/used-2004-honda-s2000-base-rwd-2d-convertible-jhmap21424t002638/

I actually really enjoyed driving it and was somewhat surprised how nicely it drove with just under 100k miles. But $27k? No way.

When I was recently looking at BMWs, the dealer lowballed my 4xe by $3k under auction value. I sent them the auction numbers and their reply was that the values are “nuts”. They did not reply when I pointed out that their used car prices were based off of those same “nuts” values. That’s one way to get ghosted

sda

mjfloyd1 said:

@breld said:
@carnaught -

Ugh! So tired of the arrogant attitude at these dealerships. And the stupid things they say.

Wife and I went out looking at fun cars today (after a nice breakfast with @michaell). She wanted to look at a used MINI hardtop - a 2012 Cooper S, manual, 79k miles. It was at a Lexus dealership, asking about the same as we paid for essentially the same car 5 years ago with half the miles.

We then stopped at a Honda dealership, as I wanted to get a feel for their process for getting a Civic Si. They have one coming in at this point, not taking deposits, and they will put $5,000 of accessories on it (but sell it for MSRP and suggested retail on the accessories).

But while we were there, we saw this and they happily handed us the keys for a test drive…

https://www.planethonda.com/inventory/used-2004-honda-s2000-base-rwd-2d-convertible-jhmap21424t002638/

I actually really enjoyed driving it and was somewhat surprised how nicely it drove with just under 100k miles. But $27k? No way.

When I was recently looking at BMWs, the dealer lowballed my 4xe by $3k under auction value. I sent them the auction numbers and their reply was that the values are “nuts”. They did not reply when I pointed out that their used car prices were based off of those same “nuts” values. That’s one way to get ghosted

It pays to do your homework otherwise prepare to be taken advantage.

oldfarmer50

mjfloyd1 said:

@breld said:
@carnaught -

Ugh! So tired of the arrogant attitude at these dealerships. And the stupid things they say.

Wife and I went out looking at fun cars today (after a nice breakfast with @michaell). She wanted to look at a used MINI hardtop - a 2012 Cooper S, manual, 79k miles. It was at a Lexus dealership, asking about the same as we paid for essentially the same car 5 years ago with half the miles.

We then stopped at a Honda dealership, as I wanted to get a feel for their process for getting a Civic Si. They have one coming in at this point, not taking deposits, and they will put $5,000 of accessories on it (but sell it for MSRP and suggested retail on the accessories).

But while we were there, we saw this and they happily handed us the keys for a test drive…

https://www.planethonda.com/inventory/used-2004-honda-s2000-base-rwd-2d-convertible-jhmap21424t002638/

I actually really enjoyed driving it and was somewhat surprised how nicely it drove with just under 100k miles. But $27k? No way.

When I was recently looking at BMWs, the dealer lowballed my 4xe by $3k under auction value. I sent them the auction numbers and their reply was that the values are “nuts”. They did not reply when I pointed out that their used car prices were based off of those same “nuts” values. That’s one way to get ghosted

They don’t need to deal with knowledgeable buyers these days, there are more than enough desperate buyers that will pay whatever they say and take getting hosed on the trade with a smile. Hopefully that won’t last for too much longer.

stickguy

dealers taking advantage of inflated market values is fine. They also get hammered when prices drop, and nobody seems to feel sorry for them about that!

but they could do it with a better attitude toward the customers. Basically, apologize. Just tell them that they are having to pay much more for inventory, and supplies are down so few cars to sell, and they are just trying to stay in business. And that they are working to keep their prices lower than the competition still.

I assume most people shopping now are aware of inventory shortages and higher prices. And if they have no clue about that, they were probably always going to be naive fish to be speared by somebody.

but really zero reason for dealers to be copping an attitude now.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

dealers taking advantage of inflated market values is fine. They also get hammered when prices drop, and nobody seems to feel sorry for them about that!

but they could do it with a better attitude toward the customers. Basically, apologize. Just tell them that they are having to pay much more for inventory, and supplies are down so few cars to sell, and they are just trying to stay in business. And that they are working to keep their prices lower than the competition still.

I assume most people shopping now are aware of inventory shortages and higher prices. And if they have no clue about that, they were probably always going to be naive fish to be speared by somebody.

but really zero reason for dealers to be copping an attitude now.

You were doing fine until that last paragraph.

You’re forgetting we’re talking about car sales here not furniture sales. Car dealerships have always had an attitude about selling cars. Granted they’ve turned it down the last decade or so because of more intelligent buyers using the internet for their research but we can’t forget they are in the car biz.

Give them a chance to become arrogant and they’ll seize the opportunity and go back to their old ways. It’s in their DNA.

jmonroe

carnaught

qbrozen said:

@carnaught said:

Saw the new Ioniq 5 in person, sat in it and chatted with the salesman by appointment per my refundable deposit with (snarky voice) “Hyundai Concierge”. The car looks decent enough and is roomy even in the backseat for my 6+ ft. self. The materials were okay, with many hard surfaces and the door panels felt solid with good workmanship. Only the entry level SE’s were present. After I inquired about about the top model, Limited, I was quickly told that they “were all sold”. I replied, “not forever”, then specifying that he meant all the Limiteds en route to them. He then snapped back if I was aware that they were being sold “ONLY for $5k above MRSP” as the dealership had to pay MRSP for them, saying “there is no invoice cost for the dealership”. When I told him I also wanted to see the Tucson Hybrid, he quickly uttered that these were going for a 5% premium over sticker. I didn’t get any further in asking what their doc fee was knowing that a competitor in the area was asking $799, but indicated that while I knew why they were asking these premiums, they to me were a total deal-breaker. Told him there was no need to drive them and I left. What a turn-off 🤨. If interested, your results may vary 🙃.

P.S., getting my $100 deposit back.

Sooo… what was the deposit for?? I would never give a despot just to LOOK at a car.

It wasn’t just to look at the car, rather to have first dibs on the car as @stickguy said. It is already being refunded.

I would never give a despot a deposit either 😄.

jmonroe1

carnaught said:

qbrozen said:

@carnaught said:

Saw the new Ioniq 5 in person, sat in it and chatted with the salesman by appointment per my refundable deposit with (snarky voice) “Hyundai Concierge”. The car looks decent enough and is roomy even in the backseat for my 6+ ft. self. The materials were okay, with many hard surfaces and the door panels felt solid with good workmanship. Only the entry level SE’s were present. After I inquired about about the top model, Limited, I was quickly told that they “were all sold”. I replied, “not forever”, then specifying that he meant all the Limiteds en route to them. He then snapped back if I was aware that they were being sold “ONLY for $5k above MRSP” as the dealership had to pay MRSP for them, saying “there is no invoice cost for the dealership”. When I told him I also wanted to see the Tucson Hybrid, he quickly uttered that these were going for a 5% premium over sticker. I didn’t get any further in asking what their doc fee was knowing that a competitor in the area was asking $799, but indicated that while I knew why they were asking these premiums, they to me were a total deal-breaker. Told him there was no need to drive them and I left. What a turn-off 🤨. If interested, your results may vary 🙃.

P.S., getting my $100 deposit back.

Sooo… what was the deposit for?? I would never give a despot just to LOOK at a car.

It wasn’t just to look at the car, rather to have first dibs on the car as @stickguy said. It is already being refunded.



Do you have the egg or the chicken?

jmonroe

carnaught

jmonroe1 said:

carnaught said:

qbrozen said:

@carnaught said:

Saw the new Ioniq 5 in person, sat in it and chatted with the salesman by appointment per my refundable deposit with (snarky voice) “Hyundai Concierge”. The car looks decent enough and is roomy even in the backseat for my 6+ ft. self. The materials were okay, with many hard surfaces and the door panels felt solid with good workmanship. Only the entry level SE’s were present. After I inquired about about the top model, Limited, I was quickly told that they “were all sold”. I replied, “not forever”, then specifying that he meant all the Limiteds en route to them. He then snapped back if I was aware that they were being sold “ONLY for $5k above MRSP” as the dealership had to pay MRSP for them, saying “there is no invoice cost for the dealership”. When I told him I also wanted to see the Tucson Hybrid, he quickly uttered that these were going for a 5% premium over sticker. I didn’t get any further in asking what their doc fee was knowing that a competitor in the area was asking $799, but indicated that while I knew why they were asking these premiums, they to me were a total deal-breaker. Told him there was no need to drive them and I left. What a turn-off 🤨. If interested, your results may vary 🙃.

P.S., getting my $100 deposit back.

Sooo… what was the deposit for?? I would never give a despot just to LOOK at a car.

It wasn’t just to look at the car, rather to have first dibs on the car as @stickguy said. It is already being refunded.

Do you have the egg or the chicken?

jmonroe


In this case, neither.

jmonroe1

carnaught said:

jmonroe1 said:

carnaught said:

qbrozen said:

@carnaught said:

Saw the new Ioniq 5 in person, sat in it and chatted with the salesman by appointment per my refundable deposit with (snarky voice) “Hyundai Concierge”. The car looks decent enough and is roomy even in the backseat for my 6+ ft. self. The materials were okay, with many hard surfaces and the door panels felt solid with good workmanship. Only the entry level SE’s were present. After I inquired about about the top model, Limited, I was quickly told that they “were all sold”. I replied, “not forever”, then specifying that he meant all the Limiteds en route to them. He then snapped back if I was aware that they were being sold “ONLY for $5k above MRSP” as the dealership had to pay MRSP for them, saying “there is no invoice cost for the dealership”. When I told him I also wanted to see the Tucson Hybrid, he quickly uttered that these were going for a 5% premium over sticker. I didn’t get any further in asking what their doc fee was knowing that a competitor in the area was asking $799, but indicated that while I knew why they were asking these premiums, they to me were a total deal-breaker. Told him there was no need to drive them and I left. What a turn-off 🤨. If interested, your results may vary 🙃.

P.S., getting my $100 deposit back.

Sooo… what was the deposit for?? I would never give a despot just to LOOK at a car.

It wasn’t just to look at the car, rather to have first dibs on the car as @stickguy said. It is already being refunded.

Do you have the egg or the chicken?

jmonroe

In this case, neither.



OH, OH.

jmonroe

[Deleted User]

Here’s one for you BMW fans:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/310561532437329/permalink/2184705228356274/?sale_post_id=2184705228356274

mjfloyd1

@dad23 said:
Here’s one for you BMW fans:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/310561532437329/permalink/2184705228356274/?sale_post_id=2184705228356274

Have to join group to see it

[Deleted User]

@mjfloyd1 said:

@dad23 said:
Here’s one for you BMW fans:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/310561532437329/permalink/2184705228356274/?sale_post_id=2184705228356274

Have to join group to see it

Sorry, didn’t think of that.

2018 British Racing Green F80 M3 DCT, 1 of 4 in US according to ad, $66k. It’s here in town @breld 😉

au1994

dad23 said:

@mjfloyd1 said:

@dad23 said:

Here’s one for you BMW fans:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/310561532437329/permalink/2184705228356274/?sale_post_id=2184705228356274

Have to join group to see it

Sorry, didn’t think of that.

2018 British Racing Green F80 M3 DCT, 1 of 4 in US according to ad, $66k. It’s here in town @breld 😉

I’d like to see that! Guess I’ll just wait till @breld posts a pic of it in his garage

[Deleted User]

mjfloyd1

I like the BRG with those wheels. I’m sure that @breld does too

stickguy

sharp looking. I love the color.

28firefighter

Hypothetically. What do you all think a 2007 Acura TL with 150k miles is worth? Short term ownership intention. Has had timing belt done, etc.

I’m thinking can’t be worth more than $5500…

oldfarmer50

mjfloyd1 said:

@dad23 said:

Here’s one for you BMW fans:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/310561532437329/permalink/2184705228356274/?sale_post_id=2184705228356274

Have to join group to see it

Have to be on Facebook too.

stickguy

probably on the low side. If full records and needs nothing, could push $8k in this market.

a lot of worth vs. what it will actually cost dilemmas these days!

28firefighter

That’s exactly what they’re asking. $7900. 2 owner all service records. TPMS is broken and triggering a light and from photos, bumper is scuffed up.

kyfdx

Geez

28firefighter

@kyfdx said:
Geez

Got that right. A jacked up bumper, broken TPMS, and high-ish miles for $8k. We living in the twilight zone!

xwesx

28firefighter said:

Got that right. A jacked up bumper, broken TPMS, and high-ish miles for $8k. We living in the twilight zone!

Even in this market, I think that $5,500 is pretty generous in that condition. Granted, those things don't mean it's on the last cylinder, but they are asking prime dollar for subprime property.

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

Hypothetically. What do you all think a 2007 Acura TL with 150k miles is worth? Short term ownership intention. Has had timing belt done, etc.

I’m thinking can’t be worth more than $5500…

In normal times $2,000 maybe $3,000 because of the timing belt service and I assume no rust from your area. Of course these ain’t normal times.

28firefighter

I just passed. I feel confident I could have driven it pain free for a few months and sold it for 4500-5000. But I’m not spending top dollar for an average condition car.

stickguy

plus at that age/miles, always the chance you get hit with a potentially pricy repair that you would never get your money back from doing.

I am very glad I did not seriously try to wade into the used car market a couple of months ago.

sda

In my mind I value our 06 TL with 167k around $3500, yet today’s market, who knows. I just ask my daughter to drive it carefully as don’t want to replace it.

roadburner

It looks like the M2C prices are moderating somewhat. I’ve decided if I can find a clean one owner car with FSH for $60k or less I’m buying it. Deal breakers remain a black exterior, a sunroof and the lack of the Executive Package. Probably wouldn’t take an Alpine White or Long Beach Blue car unless it was a manual. The Holy Grail would be a Hockenheim Silver manual car, but I could live with a DCT if the price was right.
I’m thinking the M2C prices may stay a bit high as a lot of people think it’s the last of the somewhat analog M cars- and there definitely won’t be anything smaller and lighter coming from Munich.

qbrozen

roadburner said:

It looks like the M2C prices are moderating somewhat. I’ve decided if I can find a clean one owner car with FSH for $60k or less I’m buying it. Deal breakers remain a black exterior, a sunroof and the lack of the Executive Package. Probably wouldn’t take an Alpine White or Long Beach Blue car unless it was a manual. The Holy Grail would be a Hockenheim Silver manual car, but I could live with a DCT if the price was right.

I’m thinking the M2C prices may stay a bit high as a lot of people think it’s the last of the somewhat analog M cars- and there definitely won’t be anything smaller and lighter coming from Munich.

What is the executive package? A briefcase slot in the door and steno machine in the trunk?

28firefighter

@qbrozen said:
What is the executive package? A briefcase slot in the door and steno machine in the trunk?

Bazinga

roadburner

Heated steering wheel and adaptive LED headlamps are the features in that package that I'd want; it also includes some Helen Keller "driving aids" which I would code out permanently.

stickguy

@qbrozen said:
What is the executive package? A briefcase slot in the door and steno machine in the trunk?

A martini machine in the glove box.

28firefighter

roadburner said:

Heated steering wheel and adaptive LED headlamps are the features in that package that I'd want; it also includes some Helen Keller "driving aids" which I would code out permanently.

Heated steering wheel might just be the only option I care about beyond LED headlights. I'd settle for a heated steering wheel, led lights, and crank windows if need be. That has to be a possible option combo on the Wrangler...

stickguy

Maverick has some odd equipment choices, but the LED lights, high and low beams, are really good.

qbrozen

@roadburner said:
Heated steering wheel and adaptive LED headlamps are the features in that package that I'd want; it also includes some Helen Keller "driving aids" which I would code out permanently.

I hate that BMW changes package names. Wife’s x2 had those features and no such thing as an “executive package” on it at that time.

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

28firefighter said:

Hypothetically. What do you all think a 2007 Acura TL with 150k miles is worth? Short term ownership intention. Has had timing belt done, etc.

I’m thinking can’t be worth more than $5500…

In normal times $2,000 maybe $3,000 because of the timing belt service and I assume no rust from your area. Of course these ain’t normal times.

Popular body style. I was thinking $5K in today's market if the maintenance has been done. Probably get another 100K miles out of it to boot.

graphicguy

Just saw Ford has stopped taking orders for the Maverick as they've reached manufacturing capacity.