Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

michaellno

I know I could do better!

You aren't kidding, I'd sell the house payoff my mortgage and clear about $400K.

Living with no mortgage and that money in the bank, would certainly make my life a little easier.

If you haven't already, I highly encourage folks to see this documentary.

It's somewhat predictable, but still a fascinating case study about people (well, one person, but you get the idea).

I suppose you have to live through the bad decisions to ultimately make good ones. I know - I'm living the lessons as we speak.

isellhondas

Still, some people never learn.

I would try to steer them away from troublesome used cars knowing that one big expense would spell financial disaster since I knew they had no cushion.

Sometimes they wojuld listen but a lot of times not.

corvette

I see it too frequently in my line of work. Many people don't realize that once you spend it, it's gone.

jimbres

Liz Weston, who writes on financial topics for MSN Money, posted this excellent piece last year:

The Real Reason You're Broke

Here's another worthwhile article:

A Car Payment is Not a Fact of Life

Some frequent buyers could benefit from reading these.

stever

Those links are totally off-topic for this discussion. :P

qbrozen

I believe you got the VUE with the Honda engine, right? Yeah, 20 is about right. We used to get 21 in our Pilot. Or, at least the wife did. More like 20 in my hands.

roadburner

One of our local lottery winners walked into a Louisville Chevrolet dealer and paid over $60,000 for a "customized" 2011 Camaro.
I have a funny feeling he's going to burn through his fortune in less than ten years...

michaellno

I believe you got the VUE with the Honda engine, right? Yeah, 20 is about right. We used to get 21 in our Pilot. Or, at least the wife did. More like 20 in my hands.

The '05 VUE had the 3.5L Honda engine and 5-speed auto transmission. The current '08 VUE has the GM corporate 3.6L V6 and the 6-speed auto transmission. Both were AWD. The '05 was quite a bit lighter than the '08, but the '05 "felt like a truck" when the wife did the test drive of the '08. So much more refined.

I don't remember what kind of mileage we got with the '05, but I think it was rated at 19/24, as opposed to the 16/22 of the '08. The rating system may have changed in between, so this may not be an apples to apples comparison.

I, too, thought the links to fiscal responsibility regarding car ownership were inappropriate. The nerve!

michaellno

One of our local lottery winners walked into a Louisville Chevrolet dealer and paid over $60,000 for a "customized" 2011 Camaro.
I have a funny feeling he's going to burn through his fortune in less than ten years...

I suppose that's better than having to share your $190M winnings with your abusive (not ex) husband.

Oops!

steine13

I really don't like the articles. There is some OK information, sure, but the blithe advice to go and buy $5000 cars, which will inevitably lead to hundreds of thousands of $$ insavings many years down the road... gimme a break!

The Germans have a word for it: "Milchmaedchenrechnung" = milk maid calculations. She goes to market with the milk can and will sell the milk.. and buy a hen... and sell the eggs ... and buy more hens... and then buy a calf... and by the time the daydreaming reaches the farm she'll buy, she skips a step and spills all the milk.
These advice columns use the same kind of logic.

Just try to buy a $5000 car that will be a "good deal" in the long run. Good luck... in fact, with good luck it'll work. With so-so luck you'll wish you hadn't. Most CCBA'ers -- at least the bottom feeders among us -- know this.

And there's nothing wrong with buying the typical "commuter car" brand-spanking new. Just don't spend more than $20 or so, and hang on to it and maintain it as long as it is safe to drive. That way, mortals can concentrate on more important things in life, like getting to their job without fail, and keeping their house maintained and repaired.

Sending buyers to kbb, of all places, to look up what their ride is "worth"does not speak well of the lady's knowledge of cars... about the only online source worth looking at is Edmund's, and even that has to be taken with a pound of salt.

Pointing out the mistakes people make with their finances is easy. Finding a recipe that'll work for the average person is a little harder. And sending them to buy old cars is a really bad idea.

Cheers -Mathias

corvette

I agree with you as well. The financial press has preached that leasing is categorically evil for years. But, if you look at Honda's subsidized leases, you can get a three year lease on a new Accord, Civic, or CR-V for under $8,000 if you pay upfront, and they include gap coverage in their leases... If you drive the same number of miles each year and need an inexpensive commuter car, you can do a lot worse than a lease with incentives.

stever

The link titled "The real reason you're broke" mentioned Edmunds a lot.

This discussion morphed from the first post pretty quickly. It started out as a way to "help" people stop buying cars all the time. Nowadays it's more like a brag session in some ways, and those of us who don't get it are often amused (and a tad jealous) at all the car trading stories in here.

Ergo my tongue in cheek comment about the off-topic links.

jimbres

You're the boss, Steve. But the conversation was clearly veering in this direction before I posted those links, so I wouldn't say that I was all that far off topic.

stickguy

mathias, you must be talking about the 2nd link. I only read the first one, and that was very reasonable, and nothing really about buying cheap stuff like that.

I do agree that combining buying something more basic, combined with keeping it longer, is a very good compromise.

so say a lower level mids size (malibu? Fusion? Accord LX?) would go for ~20k. Finance that for 4 years, and keep it for 8-10 (depending on you miles per year) and you should have reliable transport for that time, with about as low a cost per mile as you can get.

qbrozen

Yes, of course, by the title of the topic, this was supposed to be a support group getting the monkey off our backs .... but in a room full of addicts and no counselor... and not to mention ON A CAR SITE ... it was bound to fail miserably.

Now I'm off to my AA meeting at the bar down the street ... its $1 draft night.

lilengineerboy

ust try to buy a $5000 car that will be a "good deal" in the long run. Good luck... in fact, with good luck it'll work. With so-so luck you'll wish you hadn't. Most CCBA'ers -- at least the bottom feeders among us -- know this.

And there's nothing wrong with buying the typical "commuter car" brand-spanking new. Just don't spend more than $20 or so, and hang on to it and maintain it as long as it is safe to drive. That way, mortals can concentrate on more important things in life, like getting to their job without fail, and keeping their house maintained and repaired.

That is it...I am a car guy. I do a lot of work on my own vehicles. I like doing it. I am fine with a $5k car and kind of annoyed I went the other route and got the new $20k commuter. My friends who are not car guys buy $3-5k cars and complain about how much they spend at the mechanic. The '93 Accord I had was 10 years old, had like 60k, and was really well maintained and still required ~1 repair/mo to keep it going. I think over the course of a summer I replaced the entire front suspension. Good learning and not too challenging for me, but paying a mechanic for new tie rods, upper control arms, shocks and mounts would've been $$$$,

stever

the conversation was clearly veering

I was just razzing you. We're on the same page but it's a lost cause in here I think.

Maybe we need a topic called something like "My last car payment was _____"?

mark156

tjc..... it was like watching a very slow train wreck. If the man that left the money to this guy knew what he did with it, he would roll over in his grave. He didn't work his butt off to have it tossed to the four winds.

The guy that worked for me did not have any type of retirement set up. This was a premo opportunity to have a nice nest egg and he could have continued working to pay the cheap mortgage payment. It was a disaster from the start that ended as I expected. Very sad. :sick:

Mark156

corvette

That's a good example--basic midsize sedan ($20k or so) and keeping it 8-10 years...

Or, you could pay $6,924.76 to lease an Accord LX for three years, do that three times successively, and have transportation for nine years. You would be out about the same amount of money (a ten year old car isn't worth much), you'd always have a newish car, and you'd probably never replace tires or brakes (as you would have to if you kept a car for ten years). On the negative side, your mileage is capped, you'd pay slightly more in property taxes and possibly insurance, and you have to repeat the cycle every three years or so.

corvette

A sad story. I'm thankful that someone, somewhere left enough of an impression on me that I'm fairly disciplined about my finances (at least when I'm not buying cars or tech toys :P ).

stever

steine13, "My Last Car Payment was" #2, 26 Jan 2011 8:13 pm

akangl

Yes, of course, by the title of the topic, this was supposed to be a support group getting the monkey off our backs .... but in a room full of addicts and no counselor... and not to mention ON A CAR SITE ... it was bound to fail miserably.

Now I'm off to my AA meeting at the bar down the street ... its $1 draft night.

I'll join you.....

I'm sure some of you think I'm a spoiled brat who gets whatever she wants......not really true. We are just in a position to be able to purchase a really nice car as a family vehicle. That said, I am going to look at a couple cheaper options......."smiling bob"....aka Mazda CX-9 and take look at some others I passed by. If I can get away with something for the cash I have......$30k, I will, otherwise, I'll put that down on the MDX and do a short term loan. Then drive the MDX for the next several years........yes, I am capable of that. If I had it to do over again, I'd still be driving my 07 Pilot.

On another note, the 03 MDX that hubby saw and asked me about, well, someone posted on CL about it (dealer was advertising it there). The person posted a warning, saying that MDX has serious issues, lol. They said to start it up cold and see for yourself. Now I'm curious, lol.

breld

FWIW, my ex still drives her '03 MDX we bought new - it has a bit over 100k miles and has had no issues to speak of.

"Smiling bob", huh? That's funny. I guess with my CX-9 and Miata, I have a very "smiley" garage. I'll be interested to hear your impressions of the CX-9 if you choose to take a look at one, and how it compares to the MDX. No doubt the Acura offers more than the Mazda, but for the cost savings, I think the CX-9 does a good job of providing a relatively sporty and distinct 3-row SUV. I like the "wagon-like" look of it over the boxier alternatives.

If you do like it, just be prepared to replace the stock tires, and maybe down-size the wheels for winter driving. The stock tires have a reputation of performing poorly in snow and ice, and if you go with the Grand Touring, the 20" wheels don't help. I knew that going in, and purchased a set of winter wheels/tires that I swap out each season.

stickguy

just curious, and I know you had a few of them, but have the new style explorers arrived in your area? If you like an MDX, that should be interesting too.

akangl

just curious, and I know you had a few of them, but have the new style explorers arrived in your area? If you like an MDX, that should be interesting too.

Not that I know of, I'll check with the Ford dealer next week. I did check before I ordered the MDX back in December, but they told me probably January before the new Explorers would show up. I haven't seen one yet, so I'm guessing they are still waiting for them. Too bad because I liked everything I read about them and I could get what I want for a whole lot cheaper then the MDX.

breld

That white 2006 325xi wagon that Michael posted a link to a little bit ago? I started talking numbers with that dealer this afternoon. Since the dealership is about 60 miles away, I merely talked with the "internet" salesperson on the phone. Based on their initial "offer", we're about $2k off from a deal that we'd strongly consider doing.

We'll see if we get a call from them tomorrow to offer a sweeter deal.

qbrozen

Gotta say, I love the HDD/Sat/Nav thingy in this vehicle. Very cool. I think I've probably used it more than the wife at this point. Have loaded up a playlist on the hard drive through the USB port for myself, linked my phone, activated the Sirius and programmed the presets to my liking, and set the various user preferences, EQ, and whatnot to what I think they should be.

I wonder if they have a similar aftermarket setup and how much it costs. Although I like the VW's stock system, this would be way cooler.

michaellno

Best of luck ... would love to know where you end up on price, whether a deal is made or not.

And .... I'll expect a 'bird dog' fee. :P

andre1969

The guy renovated the house $20-25K... and just stopped working using the money to live on. It lasted about 3-4 yrs, I think.

I'm impressed the $200K lasted that long, if the guy quit working completely. A $160K mortgage isn't huge, and if you got a good rate could be under $1,000/mo. But by the time you throw in property taxes, upkeep on the house, utilities, etc. Plus day to day living expenses...food, gasoline, clothes, entertainment, it goes fast.

There's an old rule of thumb that if you want your nest egg to last 30 years, you can't pull out more than 4% annually, ajusted for inflation. (4% the first year, then 4% adjusted for inflation the year after, etc). If you cut that to 3%, the money has an excellent chance of lasting forever, as that's a low enough withdrawal rate that should be able to withstand a long downturn, when that annual withdrawal is going to take a large chunk of your nest egg.

So realistically, that $200K should have provided that guy with a reliable $6000-8000 per year...not exactly something to quit your job over!

mark156

Andre, it was absolutely ridiculous for the guy to quit working. When he told me what he was going to do, I tried to persuade him to keep working and save the money for his retirement. It went in one ear and out the other. (

After our first conversation, I never mentioned or gave any advice to him again. He asked to borrow $60,000 from me when things started to get rough. I said no. My thinking was, this guy stopped working and wants me to support his bad decision??? No way. He said I could have the house if he wasn't able to pay. I didn't want the house as it was/is in a 'iffy' neighborhood.

He paid cash for a new Tundra early on, as I mentioned previously, sold it and bought a used '06 Lincoln Town Car in '08 for $12,000 with over 100,000 miles. Unbelievable. I think if he had a brain he would play with it.

He did have some minor medical issues and no health insurance. He is probably 50-51 yrs old now. I hate to see that happen to anybody but sometimes people just need to learn on their own.

Mark156

jpp75

Not that I know of, I'll check with the Ford dealer next week. I did check before I ordered the MDX back in December, but they told me probably January before the new Explorers would show up. I haven't seen one yet, so I'm guessing they are still waiting for them. Too bad because I liked everything I read about them and I could get what I want for a whole lot cheaper then the MDX.

They're worth checking out, I can't remember which package you got on the MDX but the price should be similar if you want all the bells and whistles. You can probably get a better deal on the MDX since it's been out longer, being new the Explorer probably won't have as great of a deal. I was really impressed with the new Explorer though, liked how it drove and My Ford Touch was a fun toy.

qbrozen

We looked at one a few weeks ago. It seemed pretty nice. But, yeah, it ain't exactly cheap. Possibly cheaper than the MDX, though. I think maybe possibly like $8k less? Just guessing off the top of my head, but I think the Ford runs about $42k or so with everything. More comparable pricewise to like a Honda than an Acura (as it should be).

roadburner

My dealer now has the white 2007 335i manual listed for $25,950- down from the original $28,950. I'm tempted to offer $25,500+TTL if they will CPO the car- that way BMW FS pays $1,500 of the loan and I get another $500 from BMW CCA; after BMW FS made the three payments I'd pay off the loan. I'd essentially get the CPO warranty for free...

stickguy

doesn't hurt to ask.

kyfdx

I like the 4% rule... but, my goal is to have enough saved at retirement, so that the initial 4% amount is enough... forever... no inflation adjustment needed.

It's a good plan, because at this point, I'll only have to work until I'm 78.. :surprise:

stickguy

at this pace, I will likely have to work for about 2 months after I am dead.

unless all the money I am investing in an Ivy league education pays off, and my son makes enough money to support me!

Sandman6472

Having a clear sticky liquid coming from the front drivers hood area around the left front tire...kinda like a clear sugary substance which is sticky when I put a paper towel to it? HELP. Not quite sure what to think. The Civic is about 4.5 years old but with lower miles...just under 31k.

T I A for any help folks...luckily I don't need the car this weekend & will go to my mechanic 1st thing Monday morning. This is the 1st thing to go wrong with my car since new. Just some clear sticky substance leaking after I drive it anywhere.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

Sandman6472

I REALLY WANT A CAR WITH A POWER SEAT THAT'S FUN TO DRIVE...PERIOD!!! G-d, I finally let that out...it's been inside me sssooooollloonnngggg!! It really just hit me a bit earlier when I found a clear sugary substance leaking from just around the left front drivers tire...this is the 1st real problem with my Civic & not sure what's wrong. Will have to wait till Monday morning to have it checked out but I just lost it!!!

I'm so tired of always being so fiscally responsible & want something that I choose...just because...period. Boy, it's so good to finally get it out & I know you guys will understand. Looking through a used car book earlier, there are so many alternative choices that I'd love for a new daily driver it's unbelievable! But the aggravation I'd get from the wife would be more than I could stand. But just for once, I'd love to just "do it" & really enjoy a car that I choose "just because I can"!

O k guys...rant over. But that desire is still there & eventually I'll have to deal with "that itch that never goes away"! I know I don't have to explain it to my friends in this forum, it's just a deep routed "passion" about driving the perfect car which puts a smile on your face when ever you think about it...that inner feeling of bliss to just be able to turn the key & just drive...sort of like that "orgasmic feeling" one gets from sheer joy & happiness. Please excuse the awkward way I'm trying to put this into words. Being in chronic pain 24/7 these past years & knowing there's really no cure for it has made this inner desire come to the forefront these past few days...I just want to "enjoy something for myself" which I can afford to do but I need to balance that with the unhappiness it will cause my wife even though we each buy our cars now...and since 2005. The desire to keep the peace right now is stronger than the want to drive something for me. Hopefully, that will change within a period of time. I have shown great restraint though!!!

Thanks all for reading this rant...feels so good to finally let this out!

The Sandman

stickguy

glad we could help. I guess you know the type of support you are going to get here!

work on the wife. Cash in the sympathy chips, whatever it takes. I finally got my wife to sign off on getting a dog (though it took a week in the ICU to get that..)

or just do it! easy to say, without knowing the exact dynamics, and why it is so contentious. Especially if you are willing to stay reasonable, and go used (a new S class mercedes for 120K might be a tough sell).

I do know what you mean. I go through the same thing myself, although I am inherently cheap, and even when my wife told me to get anything I wanted (in this case, the 2001 5 series BMW that she really wanted!) I was too cheap to pull the trigger.

isellhondas

I'm thinking about the only fluid that could be clear and sticky looking would be battery acid and I believe the battery is in about the right place to drip there.

Yoju may have a cracked battery case. Very rare but it can happen.

crkyolfrt

I hear you in a number of ways sandman. And I also have read many of your previous posts and know that your expected usage of this replacement car for the Civic (or Mazda? if u swap with the wife?)
And I also can relate re your back pain in HUGE way.

But this is what I've found so far. Now keep in mind my criteria does differ from yours in what i believe two ways. First, I am on a more limited budget that what I perceive you to be, and second, I am prepared to forego some of the excitement in lieu of quiet comfort but affordability. Emphasis on comfort. Ergo the seat.

So this is my advice regarding your mind made up about the power seat. I know that u want it to change positions on the fly without having to fiddle with manual adjustments no matter how affective the result of their adjustment may be. But, what I have discovered is that just because a seat may have power, it does not mean the seat will provide a decent range of comfort in a 'change for the sake of position-change, kinda way'. This became apparent to me as I sat in a well equipped, non leather Cruze with pwr seat. So had 8 way adjustment, but it really had only ONE sorta ok position. I'll bet you a dollar to a donut, the manual adjuster seat has that same position. But my point is: if u put too much emphasis on pwr adjustability and lose sight of whether the 'other' positions (the ones beyond your first and common fav position) are somewhat suitable too, u could end up with a new car with a pwr seat that still leaves left wanting. That = big bucks lost in having to turn the car over again due to a mistake.

So just be very selective with what you think might fit the bill just cuz it has a pwr seat.

Also, don't get caught up thinking you need a brand new car. I doubt you are independently wealthy, but if so consider the new AWD Saab. Saabs and Volvos put a LOT of emphasis and design effort into their seats. Personally, while I am still learning about Saab and have read a LOT about them in the both yey and ney regard, I know that I trust them more than I do Volvo at this point.

So I think you should check out a few super clean used Saabs with a pwr seat, and a low pressure turbo. That will mean you can burn lo test gas (cuz I have figured you for someone not wanting to splurge on a hi-test demanding car, when surely there is a suitable one that burns reg grade) That's my thinking for me, BTW. The turbo will have enough torque that it WILL put a bounce in your step and keep you not only intrigued with the Civic replacement, but actually excited and always anxious to go to your car for a drive, even if only to the corner store. And I also know you do not plan to do very many miles at all. Only but 2 or 3000 per year in your own car. So this also could bode well for buying the Saab which, depending on who you listen to, has questionable reliability. I think most reports of apparent unreliability is exaggerated. but that is my personal take on them so far. I also think you have to be smart about which Saab you choose. Some has issues, which got sorted out during later model years. I think they had fairly good autos and std trannys so u should be good in that regard.

I think they have an intriguing appeal that enjoys a fairly rare but probably under appreciated exclusivity that other happy owners can look at each other and nod approvingly in a way that suggests..."we know something most of the world hasn't discovered yet" kinda way.

What ever you decide, at least 'rule out' a 9-3 or 9-5, is my best advice.

crkyolfrt

But would it be sticky? But is reasonable hunch given the location and clearness. If is battery acid, then a) did he drive so rarely that it went dead and froze? or b) check to make sure that the voltage regulator is still regulating voltage.
He mentioned driving and when parked leaves this liquid, so that is why I wonder about a VR allowing a boiling battery. Pretty rare in Civic tho. Most cars FTM.

fezo

He's in Florida so I think freezing is out of the question.

Antifreeze?

Good work on the Volvo and Saabs - just what I'm sure Mrs. Sandman wants to hear!

jimbres

I REALLY WANT A CAR WITH A POWER SEAT THAT'S FUN TO DRIVE...PERIOD!!!

FWIW, my wife's car is an '07 Lexus ES 350, & it has the best seats I've ever encountered in a Japanese car. Her car is loaded - it's equipped with the Ultra-Luxury Package - so in addition to the usual power adjustments, the driver's seat also has power lumbar support & power bottom cushion extender. The front seats are both heated & ventilated.

Now, I don't think of this as a fun car to drive - to me, it's a big nose-heavy cruiser - but my own car is a BMW 330i with stick, sports suspension & high-performance summer tires. So my frame of reference may not be the same as yours.

Still, the Lexus is undeniably comfortable, with great seats & really cold A/C. My wife's car is also equipped with the optional 14-speaker Mark Levinson sound system, which will keep you entertained on long trips.

You might look for an '07 or '08 that's coming off lease.

Whatever you buy, don't pull the trigger without taking a long test drive on a variety of road surfaces. You should be absolutely certain that you (& your back) can live with the car.

stickguy

gimme, for many small cars you can't get the same configuration with the manual seats. mazda, honda, hyundai now use a 1 lever adjustment that raises the whole seat, and pitches it forward at the same time.

If you like what I like (a lot of tilt to the bottom cushion, front up) you can't get it with a manual seat.

akangl

I went by a new little used car lot that just opened up 2 weeks ago. According to their website they had a 2010 CX-9, of course it wasn't there, its at their other location 300 miles away. I discovered that a used car manager I worked for 12 years ago owns this car lot, lol, small world. He was there and remembered me.

Anyway, I looked at GMC Acadia, didn't like it at all, too boaty of a ride. He mentioned the Lexus they had, 05 GX470, I looked at it, but that's as far as that went. Just didn't interest me. So while we were in his office talking about old times he asked if I looked at the Yukon XL that was out on the lot.

GMC Yukon XL

Next thing I know he hands me the keys and says go drive it. I did and wow, yeah, that was nice. I mentioned that I wasn't sure it would fit in the garage, he told me to take it home and see, so I did. A little rearranging and it will fit, but its a tight fit, power folding mirrors are a big help, lol.

I think I can talk him down on the price, hopefully to around the $30kish mark. The truck is clean, still smells brand new, drove great. Only issues that I saw were a broken onstar antenna and the power running boards don't work, although he assured me he'd fix both if I want the truck.

Thing is I don't "need" something that big, now it doesn't bother me to drive a suburban, I loved the one I had back in 03, but it seems excessive. My kids loved it, even my tall 16 year old.

mark156

Wow Akangl, that is a very nice SUV!!! Personally, I really like the color combo. The miles seem a little high for an '07 but maybe in AK that's OK.

Our '07 CR-V has 39,000 miles which I thought was a little on the high side but my sister-in-law's '07 CR-V has 88K!!!

Mark156

akangl

Wow Akangl, that is a very nice SUV!!! Personally, I really like the color combo. The miles seem a little high for an '07 but maybe in AK that's OK.

It is a nice color combo and I'm not a fan of light interiors, but this one is just beautiful.

Its a 1 owner truck out of Soldotna, so the miles aren't out of line for living that far out of the "big" city. My Pilot had 63k on it when I sold it in September, it was also an '07, had I kept it the miles would be right around the same as that Yukon XL.

I'm really impressed with the condition of the truck, especially inside, it looks/smells brand new. Obviously not owned by someone with kids! I tell you, I'm tempted, very very tempted. Have to see what hubby thinks when he looks at it on Monday.

andre1969

My first thought would be brake fluid? It's clear going in, but will turn sort of brownish with age. Another possibility might be power steering fluid? Or does the Civic have electric steering?

qbrozen

sandman - you're got has got me stumped. Did you taste it? Hey, you DID say it was sugary. Did you run over a bag of rock candy?

ak - $30k for a 68k mile chevy? Yikes!

rb - how many miles? what options? A 40k-mile example with no sport or nav trades for $19k-$20k. So my $25,500 offer would be OTD, certified, personally.