Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen

BTW, I have made good progress on the Alto. I’m hoping to finish tomorrow.

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

Yes. 30secs/3miles. I’m a great guy so I threw it in as a sweetener.

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There you have it, spread the word folks, @qbrozen Motors provides free warranties.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

BTW, I have made good progress on the Alto. I’m hoping to finish tomorrow.

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Looks good from here.

I see you have one of those Harbor Freight scooter seats. I like the one I have when waxing the sides of my cars. It’s a lot better than bending over. Just apply and slide.

jmonroe

stickguy

qbrozen said:

Yes. 30secs/3miles. I’m a great guy so I threw it in as a sweetener.

generous. I was thinking 10 feet or 10 secs, whichever came first. Basically the over the curb and it's on you plan.

qbrozen

@stickguy said:
generous. I was thinking 10 feet or 10 secs, whichever came first. Basically the over the curb and it's on you plan.

Yup. I let them get to the highway from here.

qbrozen

@jmonroe1 said:
————————————————
Looks good from here.

I see you have one of those Harbor Freight scooter seats. I like the one I have when waxing the sides of my cars. It’s a lot better than bending over. Just apply and slide.

jmonroe

Yes. Fairly new to me. What a back saver!

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

@jmonroe1 said:

————————————————

Looks good from here.

I see you have one of those Harbor Freight scooter seats. I like the one I have when waxing the sides of my cars. It’s a lot better than bending over. Just apply and slide.

jmonroe

Yes. Fairly new to me. What a back saver!

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Why is that “fairy new” to you? I talked about that thing years ago. I think I’m just as disappointed in you as I am with Mrs. j. She never listens when I talk either.

jmonroe

qbrozen

Fairly, not fairy. And it is not that I didn’t know about it. They have existed for decades. I just didn’t buy one until recently. So it is a fairly new purchase for me. Geesh.

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

Fairly, not fairy. And it is not that I didn’t know about it. They have existed for decades. I just didn’t buy one until recently. So it is a fairly new purchase for me. Geesh.

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That was not my spelling error. That was Edmunds spell checker. Based on that I’d say Edmunds is already getting off to a bad start this year.

jmonroe

nyccarguy

What was the final punch tally of 2023? How did it compare to 2022? Who guessed the closest? Guesses for 2024?

roadburner

I think BMW was smart to design platforms that can are suitable as IC, EV, or PHEV. Companies that hedged their bets on the Great EV Revolution will come out ahead.

benjaminh

Chart on car inflation per brand over the past five years from the video below....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Sv_jfLid4

There was one Jeep from 2022 they talked about that had an msrp of $110k. Since it hasn't yet sold, the dealer has discounted it $38,000, but that means it still costs $72k.

stickguy

that chart does need an asterisk. Some brands kept the model mix relatively the same, so it really does represent price increases. But some added higher line models that sticker higher, which would make it look like prices increased more.

thinking of HyunKia, with the Palisade/Telluride twins that immediately became the highest priced stuff they sold. And I guess the EVs.

mjfloyd1

qbrozen said:

BTW, I have made good progress on the Alto. I’m hoping to finish tomorrow.

Looks good. That seems like a lot of work and I’d guess quite a learning curve

benjaminh

Although only a small percentage of head gaskets have failed in Honda's 1.5 turbos, mostly in Accords, I got worried enough about it for a few days that I went down the rabbit hole with Subaru as a possible replacement for our 2018 CR-V. We've decided to keep the CR-V for now, but I did find out some factoids about Subarus along the way....

The Outback premium with an option package has an msrp of $34k, but my salesperson right away said 33k would be fine for that one.

Watching and reading reviews, however, I realized that the Outback with the regular engine might feel underpowered. 0-60 is around 8.7 the way magazines test, compared to 7.5 for our CR-V turbo. The Outback Onyx with the 2.4 turbo goes 0-60 in just 6 seconds, but has an msrp of $40,700. That's a lot for a medium-sized Subaru wagon. Too much imho.

Then I saw a quirk in Subaru pricing. The 2.4 turbo engine, which costs $3400 extra in the Outback, is standard on the larger Ascent, which starts at $35k. The base Ascent is a stripper by current standards, but an Ascent Premium with an option package has a power liftgate, heated front seats, push-button start, blind-spot monitoring, cold-weather package (including a heater element under the windshield wipers), rear seat climate controls, seating for 8, wireless Carplay/AndroidAuto, etc., and has an msrp of $39,800.

So you can get a nicely-optioned larger 3-row turbo Ascent for less than the cost of a turbo Outback? Strange but true.

That Outback Onyx XT did have a Harmon Kardon sound system, worth maybe $700 more than the standard 6-speaker stereo. It also has vinyl "Startex" seats, but we'd actually prefer cloth, which is a bit more comfortable in hot and cold weather.

The Ascent Premium with that option package does 0-60 in 6.8 seconds with the turbo, according to one magazine. The front styling of the Ascent is kinda bland, but I prefer it to the Palisade and some other large suvs.

Finally, I discovered that Subaru has a strange and almost "secret" special VIP pricing program. You don't have to be an employee, but instead give to one of several charities, such as the ASPCA:

https://www.subaru.com/about/partnerships.html

After giving c. $25 a month for six months (or $500 all at once, if you want the discount immediately) you can then communicate with the Subaru vip program for a voucher for a Subaru of your choice, even special ordered, for invoice pricing. And so, for instance, that $39,800 Ascent Premium would suddenly be more like $37,500. Good for either a purchase or lease. And I think you can still use whatever regular incentives or interest rates are then available too.

vipprogram@subaru.com

I know, that's a lot of digital ink spilled for nothing, since we're sticking with our CR-V....

stickguy

just gonna say, Subaru is an interesting choice if you are getting spooked about head gasket problems! Even if that should be historical at this point.

my guess, is that the majority of the still rare failures are cars that are not well maintained. So that works in your favor.

and if you really like it, and want to keep the Honda a long time, it would probably be cheaper to add a Honda extended warranty if it is still eligible to get one. I looked into one not long ago for the RDX (I was getting quotes for my DIL to be's new CRV, and asked about the Acura too) but did not get one. Our miles put on are so low it seems unlikely we will run into wear out problems. And quite possible I will move it along by the time the powertrain warranty ends in March 2026.

the Maverick, will see. If before the 3/36 runs out I decide to make it a permanent fixture I will likely get a 10 year, lower miles Ford ESP. Probably a waste since it quite possibly won't crack 60k miles by then, and the hybrid system already has a 10 year warranty.

corvette

The Onyx has a little less weight to carry around than the Ascent, and I think the 0-60 is a few tenths quicker. I didn’t realize the cheapest turbo Outback cost more than a base Ascent, though.

benjaminh

It's way past the time and miles for me to get a Honda warranty on the CR-V. We're just going to roll the dice on it. But we don't feel as confident about that as we did not that long ago. I used to think we'd go 150k easy, but now I'm not so sure.

I think the Acura 2.0 turbo is a different and more robust design. I haven't heard anything about those failing, unless they are abused.

Speaking of the RDX, that 10-speed transmission makes a great pairing with the 2.0 turbo. Probably they've refined both since that combo came out in 2018, but wow, really worth the premium price from my pov.

Yeah, I heard about Subaru head gaskets failing for several years a couple of decades ago, but from what I can tell that doesn't seem to have been much of an issue for the past ten years? But maybe I just haven't looked into it enough.

Compared to the Honda 1.5 turbo, the larger 2.4 turbo on the Subaru doesn't need to have as much boost to get the results needed. I think the numbers are something like 18.5 psi for the 1.5 in the CR-V, compared to about 16 psi for the Subaru 2.4T. I'm guessing that puts less stress on things.

roadburner

So my wife and I went to a New Year's brunch and one friend asked what car I was going to get next and I said probably a '60s musclecar, as it's something I've always wanted. Out of the blue another friend said, "I have a GTO you might be interested in..."

au1994

Subarus are great cars. Huge value for the money in my opinion, fuel efficient, great AWD, great resale, reliable (ghosts of head gaskets past aside) and some pretty good looking C/SUV’s.

However, they are bog slow unless you opt for the top engine available for the model.

au1994

A couple of weeks into the Audi experience and, as you would expect, all positives. We’ve run through a tank of gas and I need to go back and accurately figure MPG but we got over 400 miles from the 1st tank. It’s quiet and a wonderful highway cruiser. Curvy roads up at the lake may or may not have been taken quite aggressively early one evening and the combo of Quattro and 261 willing horses was quite fun. Allegedly. Cargo area is good. I’ve come to the obvious conclusion that we just travel with too much stuff!

A couple of little niggles so far…dealer had added tint (looks great but I deducted his 395 charge for it) and the drivers side window has a squeaky noise as soon as you drop the window that I am attributing to the tint for now. Second…you have to deliberately step down on the brake pedal to start otherwise it cycles to accessory mode.

Most importantly, she is happy.

Happy New Year all. This is a great place to spend some time and I look forward to another year!

And before anyone asks, put me down for 32 punches for this year. I’ll have 1 as the Jeep lease comes up in September.

tjc78

Not sure if everyone follows it .. but posted some notes/pictures in the road trip thread.

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/13973/general/x/road-trip#latest

stickguy

I’m always wrong but I’ll take 35 this year

explorerx4

Honda's 1.5 T also has oil dilution issues if you don't drive it enough.

stickguy

Not unique to Honda. An issue with Gdi turbos. along with coked up valves.

tjc78

Always a few lease returns, then Breld and Q with their shenanigans.

I’m going 43

explorerx4

It's a well documented issue with those engines which Honda has tried to address.

corvette

I’ll try to double check the punch numbers and predictions once I’m at a desktop or laptop. The sun peeked out while I was walking around the Clark County Indiana government building and amphitheater Saturday.

I also didn’t realize they preserved one of the old bunkers they used at the ordinance plant. When they were redeveloping that area into an industrial park, you used to be able to go inside some of them.

roadburner

I’ll go 37 punches.

roadburner

I remember hearing on the Mazdaspeed forums that the 2.3 GDI turbo in the Mazdaspeed 3 absolutely destroyed its oil due to fuel dilution. Some people were changing oil every 3,000 miles. The other story making the rounds was that Mobil 1 was cr*p. I would post used oil analysis from my car at 5,000 miles (and later 7,500 miles) that showed there was no fuel in the oil and that the 5W-30 Mobil 1 was actually good for up to 10,000 miles.
Crickets…

Michaell

I’ll go with 40 punches for the year.

roadburner

@fintail There's a brief article in the December/January issue of Mercedes Enthusiast about a 1967 230 Fintail that was one of the first cars to be tuned by AMG. It received a new head, camshafts, and intake as well as Bilsteins, a new final drive gear ratio and updated brakes. It brought a good price at RM Sotheby's auction in November 2023.

stickguy

$190,000. Strong price for a Fintail.

jmonroe1

au1994 said:

Subarus are great cars. Huge value for the money in my opinion, fuel efficient, great AWD, great resale, reliable (ghosts of head gaskets past aside) and some pretty good looking C/SUV’s.

However, they are bog slow unless you opt for the top engine available for the model.

————————————————
Mrs. j had a 2012 Legacy Limited and now has a 2018 Legacy Limited both with the 3.6R 6 cylinder non-turbo engine. I wouldn’t call them fuel efficient by todays standards, getting at best 20 MPG around town but that engine is pretty peppy for a grocery getter. Proof that you can’t get both but I prefer it this way.

Subaru no longer produces a 6 cylinder engine so if we get another Subie I guess I’ll be relegated to the biggest 4 cylinder they make but I don’t know what size engine that will be. All I know is, I’ll want the biggest engine they make.

jmonroe

corvette

Looks like we ended the year with 41 punches:
01/06/23 venture 2023 BMW 330i xdrive
01/07/23 mlevine 2020 Mercedes E350 6k
02/09/23 henryn 2023 Chevrolet Silverado
02/20/23 exporerx4 2022 Lincoln Corsair
02/20/23 breld 2023 Subaru WRX
03/08/23 breld 2023 Ford Bronco
01/11/23 qbrozen xxxx Mitsubishi Pajero Mini
01/11/23 qbrozen xxxx Mitsubishi Pajero Mini
03/09/23 sb55 2022 Ram 2500 xxk
03/17/23 qbrozen 1992 BMW 3-series xxk
03/18/23 akangl 2023 Audi Q5 e 55 S line Prestige
04/03/23 akangl 2019 Silverado 3500HD High Country diesel 31k
04/27/23 laurasdada 2020 BMW M240xi convertible
04/30/23 tifighter 2022 Lexus RX450hL 12k
05/01/23 qbrozen 2008 Maserati Quattroporte GTS 78k
05/12/23 kyfdx 2007 Porsche Cayman S 40k
05/17/23 stickguy 2023 Ford Maverick Hybrid
05/28/23 breld 2022 Lexus GX460
06/16/23 28firefighter 2018 BMW M240i convertible xxk
06/22/23 jpp75 2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe
07/21/23 tifighter 2023 Acura MDX Type S
08/05/23 breld 2021 BMW 840i GC xdrive 19k CPO
08/08/23 dad23 2006 Toyota Sequoia Limited 205k
08/11/23 breld 2024 Kia K5 AWD (son)
08/12/23 nyccarguy 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4x4 (son)
08/26/23 pensfan83 2022 Acura MDX Advance 1k CPO
08/31/23 akangl 2007 Honda Pilot FWD 146k (AK)
08/31/23 akangl 2018 Nissan Frontier diesel 2WD 114k km (CR)
09/09/23 breld 2024 Audi Q8 e-tron (lease)
09/15/23 andre1969 2024 Dodge Charger
09/21/23 venture 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
09/30/23 explorerx4 2023 Ford Explorer ST
10/09/23 roadburner 2021 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4xe
10/24/23 corvette 2018 Chevrolet Volt 102k
10/25/23 qbrozen 2001 Nissan Xterra 104k
10/28/23 tjc78 2023 Mercedes EQE 4matic Exclusive (lease)
11/18/23 breld 2024 Corvette 2LT
12/03/23 sandman6472 2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD
12/13/23 breld 2024 BMW X5 xdrive40i
12/15/23 breld 2024 Tesla Model Y (lease)
12/18/23 au1994 2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus 45 (lease)

@laurasdada had the perfect bid of 41 punches and @stickguy was the runner up with 40. I'll leave it to the hosts to tell them what they've won.

stickguy

au's Audi cost me the title!

jmonroe1

au1994 said:

A couple of weeks into the Audi experience and, as you would expect, all positives. We’ve run through a tank of gas and I need to go back and accurately figure MPG but we got over 400 miles from the 1st tank. It’s quiet and a wonderful highway cruiser. Curvy roads up at the lake may or may not have been taken quite aggressively early one evening and the combo of Quattro and 261 willing horses was quite fun. Allegedly. Cargo area is good. I’ve come to the obvious conclusion that we just travel with too much stuff!

A couple of little niggles so far…dealer had added tint (looks great but I deducted his 395 charge for it) and the drivers side window has a squeaky noise as soon as you drop the window that I am attributing to the tint for now. Second…you have to deliberately step down on the brake pedal to start otherwise it cycles to accessory mode.

Most importantly, she is happy.

Happy New Year all. This is a great place to spend some time and I look forward to another year!

And before anyone asks, put me down for 32 punches for this year. I’ll have 1 as the Jeep lease comes up in September.

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Wow, 32 punches for this year! I hope you know we don’t count punches you get from your wife.

jmonroe

explorerx4

I think only personal use vehicles should count.

fintail

roadburner said:

@fintail There's a brief article in the December/January issue of Mercedes Enthusiast about a 1967 230 Fintail that was one of the first cars to be tuned by AMG. It received a new head, camshafts, and intake as well as Bilsteins, a new final drive gear ratio and updated brakes. It brought a good price at RM Sotheby's auction in November 2023.

Very cool, I have read about that car but didn't know it sold. The price is all from the AMG connection, a really nice stock car would be 1/10th that price.

stickguy

explorerx4 said:

I think only personal use vehicles should count.

That I agree with.

corvette

explorerx4 said:

I think only personal use vehicles should count.

That makes sense, I think some of the ones from @qbrozen may have been from before he got a dealer license.

corvette

Michaell

@breld had two E-trons this year - a premium and a premium plus.

So, 42 punches

explorerx4

How about bought and registered?

Michaell

explorerx4 said:

How about bought and registered?

If we were to exclude any purchases by @breld that were traded in before plates go on, that would decrease the number of punches. By a fair bit, I suspect.

I mean, he went to the dealership, he signed the paperwork. That counts as a punch.

qbrozen

@corvette said:
That makes sense, I think some of the ones from @qbrozen may have been from before he got a dealer license.

Yeah, I think we previously discussed that. I would take off the 3-series and both Pajeros. Although purchased in my name, they were for resale. Also acquired the Mini but in the biz name and also for resale. However, I’d add the Daihatsu since it was supposed to be personal. So that swings the tally by a net of -2. Brings us back to 40. You are welcome, @stickguy

tifighter

I smell COLLUSION!!

qbrozen

explorerx4 said:

How about bought and registered?

but but but ... what if you buy it and then like... I dunno... find you don't fit in it? Or you buy it and then the car your wife ordered comes in like 2 weeks later?

venture

jmonroe1 said:

au1994 said:

Subarus are great cars. Huge value for the money in my opinion, fuel efficient, great AWD, great resale, reliable (ghosts of head gaskets past aside) and some pretty good looking C/SUV’s.

However, they are bog slow unless you opt for the top engine available for the model.

————————————————
Mrs. j had a 2012 Legacy Limited and now has a 2018 Legacy Limited both with the 3.6R 6 cylinder non-turbo engine. I wouldn’t call them fuel efficient by todays standards, getting at best 20 MPG around town but that engine is pretty peppy for a grocery getter. Proof that you can’t get both but I prefer it this way.

Subaru no longer produces a 6 cylinder engine so if we get another Subie I guess I’ll be relegated to the biggest 4 cylinder they make but I don’t know what size engine that will be. All I know is, I’ll want the biggest engine they make.

jmonroe

Subaru's regular engine is the 2.5 which is not very fast. The fast one now is the 2.4 turbo. So not the biggest, but the most powerful.

jmonroe1

venture said:

jmonroe1 said:

au1994 said:

Subarus are great cars. Huge value for the money in my opinion, fuel efficient, great AWD, great resale, reliable (ghosts of head gaskets past aside) and some pretty good looking C/SUV’s.

However, they are bog slow unless you opt for the top engine available for the model.

————————————————
Mrs. j had a 2012 Legacy Limited and now has a 2018 Legacy Limited both with the 3.6R 6 cylinder non-turbo engine. I wouldn’t call them fuel efficient by todays standards, getting at best 20 MPG around town but that engine is pretty peppy for a grocery getter. Proof that you can’t get both but I prefer it this way.

Subaru no longer produces a 6 cylinder engine so if we get another Subie I guess I’ll be relegated to the biggest 4 cylinder they make but I don’t know what size engine that will be. All I know is, I’ll want the biggest engine they make.

jmonroe

Subaru's regular engine is the 2.5 which is not very fast. The fast one now is the 2.4 turbo. So not the biggest, but the most powerful.

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Thanks. I know that turbos will jack up the power quite a bit but it seems strange that Subaru would bother making a 2.4 and a 2.5. There has to be a good reason but I’m not smart enough to see it. I guess you have the 2.4 turbo in your 2024 Legacy Sport.

Not that I would care about the dollar difference but do you remember what it is.

jmonroe