Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

sda

I've seen the same results from Carvana. The Q5 seems to be holding up better than the Passat. No surprise, the Passat is an orphan with poor resale value. Even before it was discontinued it depreciated quickly. Made for a good used car buy.

explorerx4

Price offered could depend on their inventory.

au1994

explorerx4 said:

Price offered could depend on their inventory.

I can definitely see that on the 4xe but not so much the X1.

explorerx4

Based on this rendering, benjaminh may want to wait for the 2025 Ascent.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-suvs/refreshed-2025-subaru-ascent-hybrid-three-row-cuv-gets-revealed-early-only-in-cgi/ar-AA1mrZcI?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=e02fc54422a74772a1444aa43d791306&ei=68

stickguy

I have not run either of mine lately. but Edmunds sends my unsolicited updates monthly, and they are definitely an outlier on the low side.

Just glad I cashed in the 1st Maverick at the very tail end of the wave before it crashed on the beast!

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

If I unexpectedly inherit a sentra to turn into my winter snow beater, wish me luck on converting the other 2 cars into 1 special one!

You’ll need that beater this weekend. 5-10” of snow predicted (storm of the century!) plus a couple inches of salt. They already have the beet juice flowing.

stickguy

I won't be going out much in the next few days, that is for sure.

explorerx4

We got a dusting of snow today. I saw some salt on the road and decided I'll wait until tomorrow to run some errands.
The Tundra was an old design, replaced in 2022, but I think this version of the Ram beats it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-trucks/confirmed-the-16-year-old-ram-1500-classic-lives-on-for-2024/ar-AA1mtHHd?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=9cfd79e07eb340f8a7f10f8d8caef19a&ei=22

corvette

I wondered why I see so many "new" Rams with halogen headlights.

benjaminh

These car reviewers bought a Tesla Model 3 performance a while ago, and here are their thoughts after living with it a long time. The rated range is 315 miles, and yet in the real world 190 is what they actually get on the highway with reasonable safety margins. So real world is only 60% of the fake Tesla range. The back seat is cramped and uncomfortable. That poor guy gets his head and his legs squished. As they said, they should have gotten a Model Y, but really the 3 should have a decent rear seat.

So far only Tesla seems to make a usable EV, but this one has serious flaws. Plus in 8-12 years the battery might be toast, with replacement costs with labor of maybe around $40k, with serious recycling challenges for the old batteries, and toxic residue that can't be recycled that no one knows what to do about. These EV vehicles won't be worth the battery replacement costs in eight years, and so after the 8-year warranty if the battery fails the car is junked, compared to a gas car that might last 15 or even 20 years. The environmental costs for the mining the materials for batteries are also significant. Tesla is the best at EVs, but all of this still doesn't seem very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewb4N3D6Te8

explorerx4

I see that Tesla just lowered the range estimates on several of their models.

Michaell

Panther question

Paging @tjc78 ...

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I won't be going out much in the next few days, that is for sure.

Outside of the salt, that amount of snow is nothing. They’ll have the roads cleared by Sunday evening. I think the weather industry gets a kickback from somebody to whip up the hysteria.

stickguy

I don’t care about snow. I’m terrified of salt though.

breld

@benjaminh - when are you going to pull the trigger and get an EV?

Having the e-tron and the Model Y in the current fleet, as well as recently having a Mach-E and Polestar 2, it’s interesting to compare first hand the different approaches and overall EV experience. I still like the Tesla for its overall driving feel, much owed to its one pedal driving. And it handles more confidently than the Audi. But the Audi feels like a true luxury vehicle in quality of interior materials and overall ride quality.

Audi’s (along with VW and I presume Porsche) approach is to mimic the feel of a regular gas vehicle as much as possible. My older son didn’t enjoy driving the Tesla or Polestar, but has no problem jumping into the Q8 over winter break.

The Polestar 2’s driving dynamics were good, but it was a bit on the firm side for my tastes as a daily driver. I assume the Polestar 3 will be better in that respect.

The Mach-E is excellent and competes well with the Model Y. I’d like to try out a Hyundai/Genesis product at some point. I continue to be smitten with the Ioniq 5, but just couldn’t pull the trigger when discounts on the Q8 and other EVs brought it more in line with the Hyundai pricing.

tjc78

@Michaell said:
Panther question

Paging @tjc78 ...

I responded but that is not a common Panther issue

tifighter

Im not saying the car is perfect. But as one who actually owned a 3 Performance, I’d say if they’re only getting 190 miles of range, something is very off.

But honestly, TFL reviews aren’t generally my cup of tea, EV or otherwise.

pensfan83

Pivoting briefly, for those who have or had light interiors do you do anything more than periodic wipe down of the leather with a microfiber cloth and some cleaner/conditioner such as Lexol? That's what I've been doing and it's worked well so far.

ab348

Unless you often wear newish denim jeans I think that's mostly all that's needed. The old chestnut about light interiors showing dirt is mostly false, although in past cars including one with a white vinyl interior I did occasionally have to use a product to clean where creases in the vinyl seemed to pick up some dark marks, but it wasn't a big problem. Black interiors, of course, show every speck of dust and animal hair, plus crumbs if you eat in the vehicle, and need cleaning much more in my experience.

ab348

I hear numerous comments about EVs riding very firmly if not roughly. Would that be because their greater weight requires much stiffer suspension, or would it be something else?

tjc78

@pensfan83 said:
Pivoting briefly, for those who have or had light interiors do you do anything more than periodic wipe down of the leather with a microfiber cloth and some cleaner/conditioner such as Lexol? That's what I've been doing and it's worked well so far.

I had white in both Volvos and that’s all I ever did. Quick wipe with a damp rag. Spray a little Lexol cleaner, wipe and rinse.

Once dry I used the Lexol conditioner sparingly and then buffed it off about an hour later

tjc78

Nearly three years old in this shot.

pensfan83

Looks good and same color scheme, which I've grown to really like after some apprehension about the light interior. All the more reason I'd prefer to keep a truck around for hauling and sports equipment.

ab348 said:

Black interiors, of course, show every speck of dust and animal hair, plus crumbs if you eat in the vehicle, and need cleaning much more in my experience.

Tell me about it, the last 2 Acuras would stay clean and dust free for 10 minutes and even with a seat cover dog hair was permanently attached to the seats. This one is much better except for that awful piano black trim....I absolutely hate the stuff and wish it would go away.

jmonroe1

explorerx4 said:

I see that Tesla just lowered the range estimates on several of their models.

————————————————
Sounds like they felt so bad they’ve deciding to lie a little less. Sure, the public will buy that until they don’t.

jmonroe

benjaminh

Autoline displayed a chart showing sales in the US for 2023. Telsa seems almost certain to pass Nissan in 2024.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBApcdb2RP4

Michaell

To add some context to those sales numbers, I recently read where 1 out of every 4 Hondas sold in the US this year were either the CR-V Hybrid or the Accord Hybrid.

Honda is reintroducing the Civic Hybrid soon, which I'm sure will bump those numbers even higher.

benjaminh

Some scoff at Hyundai, but they are now #4 in the US, which is impressive.

stickguy

I love Volvo seats.

stickguy

And given that I still don’t trust cruise control, I really am not pining for brakeless driving!

imidazol97

stickguy said:

I don’t care about snow. I’m terrified of salt though.

In western central Ohio, there's a possibility of up to 1.5 inch of snow in a small are with nominal fall of 0.5-1.0 inches followed by temps up into the 40s as the low moves east on Saturday with rain likely which will wash away the snow if any accumulates.

The store parking lots are packed with people stocking up for the "white death" that's coming on the top edge of that low pressure center storm.

stickguy

We could get 6-10 inches Saturday night into Sunday. We will be going to the market tonight instead of tomorrow

stickguy

And cheap leases are back baby. Way under the 1% target. Would be good timing if I needed a winter beater.

nyccarguy

@stickguy - is that for a RWD? lol

nyccarguy

benjaminh said:

Some scoff at Hyundai, but they are now #4 in the US, which is impressive.

Aside from the fact that I saw a new-ish Sonata on fire on the other side of I-95 yesterday AM, Hyundai/Kia have come a long way from their days as an econobox manufacturer. However, given they are far from cheap anymore and are competitively priced compared to their competition I'd have to be absolutely in love with one to pick it over a toyota counterpart. The Kia Telluride is a beautifully designed SUV. The Elantra N is a very cool car.

cdnpinhead

Has anyone heard from Isellhondas?

au1994

stickguy said:

And cheap leases are back baby. Way under the 1% target. Would be good timing if I needed a winter beater.

Even if its the base of base XLT’s thats a good vehicle for that price.

imidazol97

stickguy said:

We could get 6-10 inches Saturday night into Sunday. We will be going to the market tonight instead of tomorrow

That's what I call a real snow worth stocking up ahead.

It's amazing how the TV stations here hype everything and brainwash people into being scared of heavy snow flurries just to get people watching.

stickguy

@nyccarguy said:
@stickguy - is that for a RWD? lol

Nope. AWD. looks like no options but even base XLT is pretty well equipped.

That I would take out into the salt and slop without caring while the keeper car stayed in the garage. Will be a bit crusty underneath when the lease is up, but hey, not my problem.

laurasdada

Last I saw, 1-3" here on the coast. With rain mixing in, so sloppy.
I'm declaring a state of emergency, I've only lived in New England my whole life and driven in every kind of weather without, knock full grain wood interior, any real incidents to report. FWD, no snows (except for '05 TL, it just wasn't as confidence inspiring with FWD/all seasons) as other cars.
Of course, Jag XK saw no snow, the XF began my AWD journey (with all seasons).

The day after we moved into the new casa, 27" of snow. It was beautiful, somehow we survived to this day!

I second that emotion regarding Piano Black; banish ye!

tjc78

@stickguy said:
And cheap leases are back baby. Way under the 1% target. Would be good timing if I needed a winter beater.

Someone….. called this about a year or so ago. 😎😎😎

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

We could get 6-10 inches Saturday night into Sunday. We will be going to the market tonight instead of tomorrow

Hurry man, all the milk and bread will be gone by the time you get there!

Actually one station was predicting that I’m on the edge of the 1-3” and the 3-6” zone so I may be able to ride this one out. Unless they’re wrong, which they are almost 100% of the time.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

@nyccarguy said:
@stickguy - is that for a RWD? lol

Nope. AWD. looks like no options but even base XLT is pretty well equipped.

That I would take out into the salt and slop without caring while the keeper car stayed in the garage. Will be a bit crusty underneath when the lease is up, but hey, not my problem.

And with AWD you can keep all the other drivers who have AWD company in the ditch because they wouldn’t slow down.🤣

tjc78

They are talking about some rain/snow BS. I’m using the window weather app… never fails.

qbrozen

@tjc78 said:

@stickguy said:
And cheap leases are back baby. Way under the 1% target. Would be good timing if I needed a winter beater.

Someone….. called this about a year or so ago. 😎😎😎

Maybe me. I call it at least once a month so eventually I’ll be right. Much like all social and more mainstream media.

stickguy

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

We could get 6-10 inches Saturday night into Sunday. We will be going to the market tonight instead of tomorrow

Hurry man, all the milk and bread will be gone by the time you get there!

Actually one station was predicting that I’m on the edge of the 1-3” and the 3-6” zone so I may be able to ride this one out. Unless they’re wrong, which they are almost 100% of the time.

they don't know. weather.com app (which is always wrong) has us lower. It will be, what it is, and will all melt in a few days.

we went out to dinner and after having a pint with it, had no desire to stop at the market so decided to go home, and go out early AM. Could be a mistake!

benjaminh

breld said:

@benjaminh - when are you going to pull the trigger and get an EV?....

For many years I wanted a BMW 3-series, and in many ways the Tesla Model 3 is better than the BMW 3-series, and so I did want to get a Model 3 or Y for a while. And now the Tesla Model 3 is a lot less expensive than a BMW 3-series. Just looked it up, and it seems like a BMW 3-series base model costs these days about $700 a month to lease, compared to about $450 for a base Tesla Model 3 (although that is with a big subsidy from the feds). I really like that EVs create less air pollution, but the range issue is still there for trips, made worse by the fact that Tesla stretches its numbers. The EPA testing cycle for EVs is clearly flawed, but from what I've read Tesla works it for advertising purposes to the max they can claim. I used to admire Elon Musk a lot, but in the last three years that feeling has to some degree evaporated. Still what he and others have built with Tesla is a towering achievement.

There's a chance that in the next few years Tesla will pass Honda in the US. And Honda is not without its problems. A small percentage of the 1.5 turbos like I own in my CR-V get gasket leaks, and there has also been oil dilution problems with the 1.5. No company is perfect. But it seems like the problems with EV batteries are even bigger than that. When EV batteries fail the cost isn't like a 5k gasket job, but sometimes a 20k-40k nightmare.

benjaminh

Vehicle sales in the US in millions...
2016 17.5
2017 17.1
2018 17.2
2019 17.0
2020 14.5
2021 14.9
2022 13.8
2023 15.5

https://www.statista.com/statistics/199983/us-vehicle-sales-since-1951/

It seems like production and sales for 2024 might be around 17 million again. If another 1.5 million vehicles hit the market this year compared to last year there should be continued downward pressure on prices.

stickguy

unmet demand built up. Also has the side benefit of beefing up the supply of used cars, which should bring the price of those down.

benjaminh

For 5 years, from 2015 to 2019, light vehicle sales in the US were around 17 million. During the pandemic and chip shortage did any vehicle factories get closed permanently? Maybe it happened, but if so I'm not remembering it at the moment. Probably capacity still exists for the non-Tesla factories to produce 17 million a year, but now Tesla can potentially add on top of that.

Back in 2019—the last 17 million year—Tesla only sold 195k vehicles in the US. Tesla's market share was about 1%. In 2023 Tesla sold about 670,000 vehicles in the US, for a share of about 5%. In 2024, with that huge new Tesla factory is Austin ramping up, Tesla will probably sell over 900,000 in the US.

Back in 2019 Tesla was still producing a relatively small number of vehicles, but this year they will probably sell 700,000 more than they did in 2019, and that's getting pretty big.

If Tesla has added that capacity, and others haven't cut factory capacity, what might happen? Now that the chip shortage and supply-chain issues seem to have passed, unemployment is low, and the stock market is up, could we go even past 17 million? Maybe. As stickguy says, there's still some pent-up demand.

corvette

@benjaminh - IMO, the Supercharger network eliminates a lot of the range issues. You can also rent a Model 3 from Hertz, try it out for a few days locally or on a longer trip, and see how it works for you.

I do have concerns that the early "Supercharger compatible" vehicles from other manufacturers will not work with those chargers as painlessly as Teslas.