Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

jmonroe1

laurasdada said:

"I have a new store opening in Surprise AZ..."
Bet no one saw that one coming!

Out of curiosity, have you (or anyone) been to Lake Las Vegas? If so, any thoughts on that area?

————————————————-
Is that the lake where folks have been found at the bottom wearing concrete shoes?

jmonroe

ab348

carnaught said:

The interiors and the McIntosh audios are nice.

All the tubes under the dash must take up a lot of space.

corvette

Filled up the Volt after driving it to hiking destinations the past two days (and other places, since the last fillup, which was some time ago, so a decent amount of EV mode driving). 600+ miles on a little over eight gallons. I think GM trotted out a study on the first-gen Volt that suggested people could go 1,000 miles on a tank. I suspect some selection bias in that study, but also, that seems doable if someone has a 25-ish mile commute and charges every evening (or if they have a 50-ish mile commute and can fully charge at work and at home).

nyccarguy

@tjc78 said:
Apparently there are decent leases on these available.

Broker has a 72K 4x4 for $768 36/10 with just first OOP

Not sure there is any full size SUV that can come close to that.

You can’t touch a full Size GM SUV or Navigator for under $1000 per month!

tjc78

@nyccarguy said:

@tjc78 said:
Apparently there are decent leases on these available.

Broker has a 72K 4x4 for $768 36/10 with just first OOP

Not sure there is any full size SUV that can come close to that.

You can’t touch a full Size GM SUV or Navigator for under $1000 per month!

I thought so. Even pre Covid they never leased well.

nyccarguy

tjc78 said:

@nyccarguy said:

@tjc78 said:

Apparently there are decent leases on these available.

Broker has a 72K 4x4 for $768 36/10 with just first OOP

Not sure there is any full size SUV that can come close to that.

You can’t touch a full Size GM SUV or Navigator for under $1000 per month!

I thought so. Even pre Covid they never leased well.

Correct. My Dad has leased one of these (the '15 Tahoe) out of 5 since 2010 (he had a '10 Tahoe LTZ, '11 Tahoe LTZ, '15 Tahoe LT, '18 Yukon SLT, & now a '23 Tahoe RST). The only reason he leased the '15 was because there was a 39 month lease program where the payment sort of worked out. It was the 1st year of the new body style, so we figured he'd take a shot at leasing. It worked out well, because he was able to custom order his '18 Yukon, which I negotiated a healthy discount on, then it came in and GM was offering 0% financing for 72 months ("THOSE WERE THE DAAAAAAYS"). Since we knew his driving patterns and the fact that the trucks were consistently under water due to their mileage (20-25K per year) and condition (Short haired Great Dane) that we didn't want to go for the 72 months. We made them re-write the contract for 60 months at 0%.

pensfan83

Spotted in Florida, the ultra rare green Type R

corvette

Classic Nippon Racing Green.

venture

nyccarguy said:

tjc78 said:

@nyccarguy said:

@tjc78 said:

Apparently there are decent leases on these available.

Broker has a 72K 4x4 for $768 36/10 with just first OOP

Not sure there is any full size SUV that can come close to that.

You can’t touch a full Size GM SUV or Navigator for under $1000 per month!

I thought so. Even pre Covid they never leased well.

Correct. My Dad has leased one of these (the '15 Tahoe) out of 5 since 2010 (he had a '10 Tahoe LTZ, '11 Tahoe LTZ, '15 Tahoe LT, '18 Yukon SLT, & now a '23 Tahoe RST). The only reason he leased the '15 was because there was a 39 month lease program where the payment sort of worked out. It was the 1st year of the new body style, so we figured he'd take a shot at leasing. It worked out well, because he was able to custom order his '18 Yukon, which I negotiated a healthy discount on, then it came in and GM was offering 0% financing for 72 months ("THOSE WERE THE DAAAAAAYS"). Since we knew his driving patterns and the fact that the trucks were consistently under water due to their mileage (20-25K per year) and condition (Short haired Great Dane) that we didn't want to go for the 72 months. We made them re-write the contract for 60 months at 0%.

That made my tiny brain hurt.

stickguy

Got an Email today from the Ford dealer. Apparently today is my 1 year anniversary of picking up my current truck. I guess I timed my service appointment scheduling well because it goes in tomorrow for it's 1st oil change (I I think I just ticked over 5k miles).

corvette

Mine is down to 9% remaining, but I’ve been driving the Volt for a while, so it can probably wait another month. I also got my third recall notice last week. Perks of owning a first model year vehicle!

au1994

corvette said:

Mine is down to 9% remaining, but I’ve been driving the Volt for a while, so it can probably wait another month. I also got my third recall notice last week. Perks of owning a first model year vehicle!

I think I’ve had 3 or 4 recalls on the Wrangler plus the coolant pump on the battery went out and rendered battery power useless until fixed. I typically just waited until I needed an oil change to do the recalls so none were hugely inconvenient to me. Now had it left me stranded I’d have a different opinion.

stickguy

I have a few recalls on tap too, but have not had any done. the 3 really only amount to 2 since a couple are both BCM updates and all they are doing is updating to the latest software version so 1 update covers both.

roadburner

My 4xe is only needing the defroster recall. I'm waiting until the Jeep calls for an oil change, which should be in a month or so.

nyccarguy

@roadburner said:
My 4xe is only needing the defroster recall. I'm waiting until the Jeep calls for an oil change, which should be in a month or so.

I had mine fixed under warranty. They replaced the entire rear window.

nyccarguy

News and notes. Had to gas up the Tacoma and the Wrangler tonight. The truck returned its usual 19.5 mpg. I haven’t put a drop of gas in the Jeep in over 850 miles of my son driving it. 59.16 mpg.

Since the Jeep needed a fill up and my 15 year old needed to be picked up from hockey practice, I figured I would kill the 2 birds with 1 stone since it was such a beautiful night out tonight. I rode with the top open. The hockey rink he practices at is at one of the local beaches.

breld

I took the top off the corvette yesterday for the drive into work. Kinda forgot that this time of year that high of 70’s still means it’s a bit chilly in the morning. Heated seats and steering wheel helped offset that. 😀

nyccarguy

On another note, I got a text from Marco The Car Guy - TBirdMarco… yesterday. He purchased a new Maverick (2.0T 4WD) for his new vending machine business. He’s also bought and sold a 6MT Mustang GT with little options. He didn’t get to drive the Mustang due to his sight limitations, but nonetheless loved the car. He can’t log on anymore to Edmund’s, but sends his regards.

nyccarguy

@breld said:
I took the top off the corvette yesterday for the drive into work. Kinda forgot that this time of year that high of 70’s still means it’s a bit chilly in the morning. Heated seats and steering wheel helped offset that. 😀

Having the roof open in the Jeep last night also helped air out my 15 year old after hockey practice. Sometimes I wish it was legal to have him ride in the bed of the pickup.

au1994

nyccarguy said:

@breld said:

I took the top off the corvette yesterday for the drive into work. Kinda forgot that this time of year that high of 70’s still means it’s a bit chilly in the morning. Heated seats and steering wheel helped offset that. 😀

Having the roof open in the Jeep last night also helped air out my 15 year old after hockey practice. Sometimes I wish it was legal to have him ride in the bed of the pickup.

There were many nights riding home from lax practice that I was even more thankful than usual for a convertible.

xwesx

Now that you mention it... that's a real possibility as to why we spent so many years of our childhoods riding almost exclusively in the bed of my father's pickup....

breld

Aah yes…one of the many joys of teenage athletes.

jmonroe1

xwesx said:

Now that you mention it... that's a real possibility as to why we spent so many years of our childhoods riding almost exclusively in the bed of my father's pickup....

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You too?

jmonroe

pensfan83

au1994 said:

nyccarguy said:

@breld said:

I took the top off the corvette yesterday for the drive into work. Kinda forgot that this time of year that high of 70’s still means it’s a bit chilly in the morning. Heated seats and steering wheel helped offset that. 😀

Having the roof open in the Jeep last night also helped air out my 15 year old after hockey practice. Sometimes I wish it was legal to have him ride in the bed of the pickup.

There were many nights riding home from lax practice that I was even more thankful than usual for a convertible.

Our youngest (11) has taken up lacrosse at the urging of his uncle/my brother, who played and captained a team collegiately. He's enjoying it so far but I will echo the need to have some type of separation from the equipment.

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

@breld said:

I took the top off the corvette yesterday for the drive into work. Kinda forgot that this time of year that high of 70’s still means it’s a bit chilly in the morning. Heated seats and steering wheel helped offset that. 😀

Having the roof open in the Jeep last night also helped air out my 15 year old after hockey practice. Sometimes I wish it was legal to have him ride in the bed of the pickup.

I always thought that freshman girls basketball was tops in the funk department.😫

pensfan83

@nyccarguy, or anyone else who wants to chime in, are there any spots you'd recommend grabbing a bite to eat and watching the Rangers game around MSG? My flight from Florida gets in around 2:00 and I'm going to check into the hotel and relax a bit first. I would love to actually go to the game but I'm sure tickets are pretty crazy.

qbrozen

Threw in the reverse cam while waiting for kid at baseball practice. Seems to work well enough. I’ll hardwire the power at some point. That adapter is way too big.

explorerx4

@qbrozen,
Why is your truck in 4 Auto?

andres3

Posted this in Mechanic's LIfe but felt I should post it here too:

Had an argument with Audi over water pump vs. thermostat housing. There was an extended warranty on the water pump for my TTS (later found out it wasn't voluntary but a class action lawsuit settlement). Of course, given these facts, the dealership stated it was my housing that was leaking coolant, not the water pump, $2,000 please. Nothing covered by warranty.

My shop says they are splitting hairs, that not only are these two parts directly next to each other/adjacent, but that you can't replace either without taking out both, and they ALWAYS just replace both. Their position, and mine, remains that they should replace the water pump under warranty and I'll pay for the housing which isn't covered (same labor).

Dealerships quote even included replacing this elusive water pump!!!! They maintain they don't owe a dime in warranty work because it's "preventative" and not warranty. I'm an unhappy bad will Audi customer now as NEITHER should be leaking at 64,xxx miles anyway!!!!! I was within the 8 year 80K warranty (by a few days).

So while the Audi lawyers may have celebrated negotiating that ONLY the water pump would be covered, they will have earned a lot of angry customers from that negotiation. Splitting hairs is correct.

On a side note, was test driving some used SQ5's, and did you all remember I prefer the B8 S4 drive train with a dual clutch and supercharger to the B9 slushbox ZF8 (with Audi's programming making it a slushbox) turbo. Anyway, I didn't remember, but apparently there was a year or two of the SQ5 having that same supercharged drivetrain (sans dual clutch). 2017 is one of those years. 90,000 miles, and they want $22K, but Edmunds says a great deal would be $19K. To be honest, I far preferred this older SQ5 to the newer ones with the laggier turbocharged engine. Felt quicker and more responsive, even with the ZF8. Now don't get me wrong, the newer SQ5's look nice inside and out, and they even fixed the "no exhaust/fake exhaust" look of the '18-'20's" in '21 I think, but I like the '17 model.

oldfarmer50

I just got an email from the dealer where I bought my son’s 2010 Fusion 4 years ago which stated “WE WANT YOUR CAR”. Seriously, they want a 14 year old Ford with 62k miles?

Something tells me this isn’t the personal offer I thought it was.

corvette

If Audi is expecting them to send back a defective water pump, their hands are probably tied.

qbrozen

@andres3 said:
Posted this in Mechanic's LIfe but felt I should post it here too:

Had an argument with Audi over water pump vs. thermostat housing. There was an extended warranty on the water pump for my TTS (later found out it wasn't voluntary but a class action lawsuit settlement). Of course, given these facts, the dealership stated it was my housing that was leaking coolant, not the water pump, $2,000 please. Nothing covered by warranty.

My shop says they are splitting hairs, that not only are these two parts directly next to each other/adjacent, but that you can't replace either without taking out both, and they ALWAYS just replace both. Their position, and mine, remains that they should replace the water pump under warranty and I'll pay for the housing which isn't covered (same labor).

Dealerships quote even included replacing this elusive water pump!!!! They maintain they don't owe a dime in warranty work because it's "preventative" and not warranty. I'm an unhappy bad will Audi customer now as NEITHER should be leaking at 64,xxx miles anyway!!!!! I was within the 8 year 80K warranty (by a few days).

So while the Audi lawyers may have celebrated negotiating that ONLY the water pump would be covered, they will have earned a lot of angry customers from that negotiation. Splitting hairs is correct.

On a side note, was test driving some used SQ5's, and did you all remember I prefer the B8 S4 drive train with a dual clutch and supercharger to the B9 slushbox ZF8 (with Audi's programming making it a slushbox) turbo. Anyway, I didn't remember, but apparently there was a year or two of the SQ5 having that same supercharged drivetrain (sans dual clutch). 2017 is one of those years. 90,000 miles, and they want $22K, but Edmunds says a great deal would be $19K. To be honest, I far preferred this older SQ5 to the newer ones with the laggier turbocharged engine. Felt quicker and more responsive, even with the ZF8. Now don't get me wrong, the newer SQ5's look nice inside and out, and they even fixed the "no exhaust/fake exhaust" look of the '18-'20's" in '21 I think, but I like the '17 model.

Can’t be that unhappy of a customer if you are still shopping them.

qbrozen

@explorerx4 said:
@qbrozen,
Why is your truck in 4 Auto?

Oh, did that when I was checking places to mount the monitor and wanted to make sure I could still turn it (not where the monitor wound up but one of the considerations was sqeezing the mount between the 4wd dial and climate buttons.

HOWEVER, I did forget to turn it back and drove home that way. Oh well. At least I didn’t chirp the tires from every stop like I normally do. :b

tjc78

@qbrozen
Not sure what you spent on the screen and cam but maybe consider upgrading your head unit and wire the camera into that. There should be an integration harness available to make it plug and play

Michaell

qbrozen said:

@andres3 said:

Posted this in Mechanic's LIfe but felt I should post it here too:

Had an argument with Audi over water pump vs. thermostat housing. There was an extended warranty on the water pump for my TTS (later found out it wasn't voluntary but a class action lawsuit settlement). Of course, given these facts, the dealership stated it was my housing that was leaking coolant, not the water pump, $2,000 please. Nothing covered by warranty.

My shop says they are splitting hairs, that not only are these two parts directly next to each other/adjacent, but that you can't replace either without taking out both, and they ALWAYS just replace both. Their position, and mine, remains that they should replace the water pump under warranty and I'll pay for the housing which isn't covered (same labor).

Dealerships quote even included replacing this elusive water pump!!!! They maintain they don't owe a dime in warranty work because it's "preventative" and not warranty. I'm an unhappy bad will Audi customer now as NEITHER should be leaking at 64,xxx miles anyway!!!!! I was within the 8 year 80K warranty (by a few days).

So while the Audi lawyers may have celebrated negotiating that ONLY the water pump would be covered, they will have earned a lot of angry customers from that negotiation. Splitting hairs is correct.

On a side note, was test driving some used SQ5's, and did you all remember I prefer the B8 S4 drive train with a dual clutch and supercharger to the B9 slushbox ZF8 (with Audi's programming making it a slushbox) turbo. Anyway, I didn't remember, but apparently there was a year or two of the SQ5 having that same supercharged drivetrain (sans dual clutch). 2017 is one of those years. 90,000 miles, and they want $22K, but Edmunds says a great deal would be $19K. To be honest, I far preferred this older SQ5 to the newer ones with the laggier turbocharged engine. Felt quicker and more responsive, even with the ZF8. Now don't get me wrong, the newer SQ5's look nice inside and out, and they even fixed the "no exhaust/fake exhaust" look of the '18-'20's" in '21 I think, but I like the '17 model.

Can’t be that unhappy of a customer if you are still shopping them.

I was thinking the exact same thing - boycott an entire drug store chain over a $20 wrist watch, but remain a loyal customer to a brand after taking $2K of your money.

qbrozen

@tjc78 said:
@qbrozen
Not sure what you spent on the screen and cam but maybe consider upgrading your head unit and wire the camera into that. There should be an integration harness available to make it plug and play

Eh. I like the stock stereo enough, to be honest. And, so far, free satellite radio!

It was $60.

tifighter

@qbrozen said:

@andres3 said:
Posted this in Mechanic's LIfe but felt I should post it here too:

Had an argument with Audi over water pump vs. thermostat housing. There was an extended warranty on the water pump for my TTS (later found out it wasn't voluntary but a class action lawsuit settlement). Of course, given these facts, the dealership stated it was my housing that was leaking coolant, not the water pump, $2,000 please. Nothing covered by warranty.

My shop says they are splitting hairs, that not only are these two parts directly next to each other/adjacent, but that you can't replace either without taking out both, and they ALWAYS just replace both. Their position, and mine, remains that they should replace the water pump under warranty and I'll pay for the housing which isn't covered (same labor).

Dealerships quote even included replacing this elusive water pump!!!! They maintain they don't owe a dime in warranty work because it's "preventative" and not warranty. I'm an unhappy bad will Audi customer now as NEITHER should be leaking at 64,xxx miles anyway!!!!! I was within the 8 year 80K warranty (by a few days).

So while the Audi lawyers may have celebrated negotiating that ONLY the water pump would be covered, they will have earned a lot of angry customers from that negotiation. Splitting hairs is correct.

On a side note, was test driving some used SQ5's, and did you all remember I prefer the B8 S4 drive train with a dual clutch and supercharger to the B9 slushbox ZF8 (with Audi's programming making it a slushbox) turbo. Anyway, I didn't remember, but apparently there was a year or two of the SQ5 having that same supercharged drivetrain (sans dual clutch). 2017 is one of those years. 90,000 miles, and they want $22K, but Edmunds says a great deal would be $19K. To be honest, I far preferred this older SQ5 to the newer ones with the laggier turbocharged engine. Felt quicker and more responsive, even with the ZF8. Now don't get me wrong, the newer SQ5's look nice inside and out, and they even fixed the "no exhaust/fake exhaust" look of the '18-'20's" in '21 I think, but I like the '17 model.

Can’t be that unhappy of a customer if you are still shopping them.

Beat me to it…

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

Threw in the reverse cam while waiting for kid at baseball practice. Seems to work well enough. I’ll hardwire the power at some point. That adapter is way too big.

————————————————
If you want to have some fun, post this over in Cars and Conversations and watch @driver100 break into a cold sweat. The last I heard he still doesn’t have a backup camera in his Florida 2014 MB C250.

jmonroe

stickguy

Q has a wire attached to him. That takes his solution off the driver table.

qbrozen

@stickguy said:
Q has a wire attached to him. That takes his solution off the driver table.

Gotta get power somehow. I certainly wouldn’t want to be swapping in double As every couple of months.

laurasdada

For those so inclined, Cadillac Lyriq rebates totaling $19k (in my case):

incentives/">https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/tax-credits-rebates-incentives/

roadburner

jmonroe1 said:

qbrozen said:

Threw in the reverse cam while waiting for kid at baseball practice. Seems to work well enough. I’ll hardwire the power at some point. That adapter is way too big.

————————————————
If you want to have some fun, post this over in Cars and Conversations and watch @driver100 break into a cold sweat. The last I heard he still doesn’t have a backup camera in his Florida 2014 MB C250.

jmonroe

Just mentioning opening the hood or changing a fuse will have the same effect.

andres3

qbrozen said:

@andres3 said:

Posted this in Mechanic's LIfe but felt I should post it here too:

Had an argument with Audi over water pump vs. thermostat housing. There was an extended warranty on the water pump for my TTS (later found out it wasn't voluntary but a class action lawsuit settlement). Of course, given these facts, the dealership stated it was my housing that was leaking coolant, not the water pump, $2,000 please. Nothing covered by warranty.

My shop says they are splitting hairs, that not only are these two parts directly next to each other/adjacent, but that you can't replace either without taking out both, and they ALWAYS just replace both. Their position, and mine, remains that they should replace the water pump under warranty and I'll pay for the housing which isn't covered (same labor).

Dealerships quote even included replacing this elusive water pump!!!! They maintain they don't owe a dime in warranty work because it's "preventative" and not warranty. I'm an unhappy bad will Audi customer now as NEITHER should be leaking at 64,xxx miles anyway!!!!! I was within the 8 year 80K warranty (by a few days).

So while the Audi lawyers may have celebrated negotiating that ONLY the water pump would be covered, they will have earned a lot of angry customers from that negotiation. Splitting hairs is correct.

On a side note, was test driving some used SQ5's, and did you all remember I prefer the B8 S4 drive train with a dual clutch and supercharger to the B9 slushbox ZF8 (with Audi's programming making it a slushbox) turbo. Anyway, I didn't remember, but apparently there was a year or two of the SQ5 having that same supercharged drivetrain (sans dual clutch). 2017 is one of those years. 90,000 miles, and they want $22K, but Edmunds says a great deal would be $19K. To be honest, I far preferred this older SQ5 to the newer ones with the laggier turbocharged engine. Felt quicker and more responsive, even with the ZF8. Now don't get me wrong, the newer SQ5's look nice inside and out, and they even fixed the "no exhaust/fake exhaust" look of the '18-'20's" in '21 I think, but I like the '17 model.

Can’t be that unhappy of a customer if you are still shopping them.

Disappointed is probably the better word choice over unhappy. Degrees of unhappiness. I told them the leaky coolant is about the last straw though, and has tampered any offers I'd make on other used Audis. My shop says it's all the computer chips/sensors they put on the housings and pumps these days, faster for them to manufacture and engineer them to work in plastic, takes much longer to do it in metal as it should be. I'm told the MK6 (GTI, A3, etc) has metal replacements at this juncture, not yet for my generation of TTS. Apparently not the highest priority for VW corporate.

Yes, having to send a defected water pump to Audi is the crux of the problem. The dealership knows it would have to be goodwill on their part to fix the badwill on Audi's part. Audi customer care just says "call the lawyers that sued us." which is what I did and they confirmed I'm SOL.

andres3

corvette said:

If Audi is expecting them to send back a defective water pump, their hands are probably tied.

Exactly, the class action lawsuit actually interfered with my chances of receiving good customer service and care. The people with bad water pumps left the people with bad thermostat housings out to be slaughtered. A better settlement would have been 1/2 of both!!!

One reason I was looking at SQ5's is the Q5 loaner I had while my TTS was in for a $225 diagnostic as that's all I agreed to pay for. The Q5 impressed me a lot. Figured the SQ5 may be worth a real look.

So other than still needing to fix the slightly leaking thermostat housing in the TTS, the S4 and TTS have been good.

There was some DSG oil overheating issues going on in Spring Mountain, and it was very warm, but not hot (85-90 F tops). The makers of aftermarket DSG oil coolers suggest the car isn't up to the task of track use, but wasn't an issue till the car got 8 years old. Do old cars tend to run hotter? The car would go into (4K RPM Is your new redline mode 10 minutes into a track session, and that wasn't acceptable). Happened a couple times so then I started short shifting at 5K to 5.5K RPM rather than letting it run out to the 6.5 to 7K redline, and that did the trick, got a full session and shifting at 5,500 is almost no loss in speed or power (just more shifting).

Still, looking at RacingLine's transmission oil cooler (UK company apparently).

qbrozen

@andres3 said:

So other than still needing to fix the slightly leaking thermostat housing in the TTS, the S4 and TTS have been good.

Eh, ya know, just a little nothing $2k leak in one and a little nothing entire engine in the other. A perfectly happy and loyal customer through and through.

laurasdada

Stop scaring me.

Signed,
Audi A7 owner (luckily a PHEV is much less complex than their ICE cars, of course)

nyccarguy

In the last couple of years,

qbrozen said:

@andres3 said:

So other than still needing to fix the slightly leaking thermostat housing in the TTS, the S4 and TTS have been good.

Eh, ya know, just a little nothing $2k leak in one and a little nothing entire engine in the other. A perfectly happy and loyal customer through and through.

What do they call that again? Drinkin the Kool AId?

jmonroe1

laurasdada said:

Stop scaring me.

Signed,
Audi A7 owner (luckily a PHEV is much less complex than their ICE cars, of course)

————————————————
Plus, you don’t track your Audi.

jmonroe

tjc78

@qbrozen said:

@tjc78 said:
@qbrozen
Not sure what you spent on the screen and cam but maybe consider upgrading your head unit and wire the camera into that. There should be an integration harness available to make it plug and play

Eh. I like the stock stereo enough, to be honest. And, so far, free satellite radio!

It was $60.

For only $60 I agree with what you did

pensfan83

nyccarguy said:

In the last couple of years,

qbrozen said:

@andres3 said:

So other than still needing to fix the slightly leaking thermostat housing in the TTS, the S4 and TTS have been good.

Eh, ya know, just a little nothing $2k leak in one and a little nothing entire engine in the other. A perfectly happy and loyal customer through and through.

What do they call that again? Drinkin the Kool AId?

Save for a Jeep in the early 2000s my parents owned nothing but Fords. Then their run of issues with Escape #1 and an F-150 started and coupled with a bad dealer has them swearing off ever owning another Ford.