Believe it or not, I've never personally owned a chevy. What I can't figure out is how this thing weighs 500 lbs more than an Ion, yet achieves the same mileage with the same engine. On a positive note, Edmunds seems to despise the Ion, yet likes the Cobalt.
Oh, and its overpriced. They only paid $2700 for it at auction, so I should be able to knock them down quite a bit. But will I grow to dislike the bulk of it?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Yeah... the lemon interior scares me a little bit, but it's only the seats... carpets and door panels are black, and it looks good to me...
I agree about the spoiler... actually, I think that is an entirely new deck lid. In the ad, he says he has all of the original parts, so I think that would have to go...
Really low miles... 12K after three years... Makes the price seem pretty cheap..
But, not a lot of equipment, other than the mods and the M-Sport package... no power seats means no premium package...
I was surprise myself to see the weight difference on the two cars. Looks like the Ion started around 2700 lb while the Cobalt was around 3200?
I don't think the plastic body panels contribute much at all to making the car lighter. Sheetmetal isn't very heavy, anyway. With a car door, for example, the bulk of the weight is going to be in the structure and bracing of it, plus the window glass. Whether the outside has sheetmetal or plastic on it probably doesn't matter more than a few pounds either way.
Oh, and its overpriced. They only paid $2700 for it at auction, so I should be able to knock them down quite a bit. But will I grow to dislike the bulk of it?
What's the worse that can happen if you grow to dislike it? I don't think you'll lose anything (or much) by unloading it after driving it a few miles.
well, that's kind of the debate in my head. We know that, certainly, a Cobalt isn't going to hold its value like an import would. Bought right and taken care of, I could probably drive a Protege for 6 mos to a year and sell it for what I paid for it. That probably wouldn't be the case with a Chevy or Saturn.
Granted, we aren't talking alot of money here.
My wife says "buy what you will actually drive every day." I guess that makes some sense. No point in having a beater if it is a penalty box you don't want to spend time in. So that probably means I should avoid a Scion, for example.
I've driven a Protege and a Sentra. I've liked them both. Comfortable and reasonably spunky. I guess I should go at least check out a Cobalt. Maybe even a Civic.
Of course, I like wagons. So the P5 and Vibe/Matrix keep popping into my head, too. They are much tougher to come by, though. Looks like that silver P5 sold, leaving just the overpriced blue one. We've got the silver Vibe GT, but miles are up there at 135k. There is the silver Matris XRS from a private seller...but that's pushing the spending limit.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
One thing I really liked about the Cobalt is that, in the front seat at least, it felt like it was bigger than a compact. More like a comfy midsize. Now, that might not be a strong selling point for a small car, since you don't want it to feel bulky. But for me, I appreciated the fact that it had plenty of legroom, enough foot room, the door panel and armrest weren't jammed up right against me, etc.
I haven't driven a Cobalt however, only sat in them at auto shows, so take my experience with a grain of salt
Still loving my '06 Civic LX as it finally hit 34k on Monday. Besides general maintenance, it's a great car even though a bit bland as you say. And for the general around town duties, it's just perfect. You've already got a great drivers car with the 1 Series and isn't the point of buying yet another set of wheels to get super reliable/inexpensive transport? Something to think about.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I'm not sure you can call them compacts. The Cobalt was longer than our new Forester. They were side by side in our garage.
Yeah, all these "compacts" are definitely getting bigger. The other day when I was walking out to my car, I noticed a current-gen Civic parked next to a current Accord. There really didn't seem to be THAT much difference in size between the two.
I spotted a new Dart out on the B-W Parkway on Saturday night. As I passed it, I noticed that it only seems like a small-ish car when viewed from the side. Coming up on it, it seemed pretty substantial, and when seen from behind in the rearview mirror, it actually looked a bit intimidating. Maybe Dodge should advertise them as "The New Wide Small Car"! Unless that would stir up some bad memories? :P
You've already got a great drivers car with the 1 Series and isn't the point of buying yet another set of wheels to get super reliable/inexpensive transport?
Yes. I just want to make sure I don't MIND driving the beater and leaving the 135 in the garage.
Ok, I guess that's not totally feasible. But, at the least, I can't hate the car. That's one of the reasons i wanted gas mileage as high as I could reasonably get it. Knowing that driving the car will get me 30+ mpg is good incentive.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Still loving my '06 Civic LX as it finally hit 34k on Monday. Besides general maintenance, it's a great car
That's it? 34k on an 06? Hubby's 09 has 105k and other than general maintenance, tires, and an oil leak around the timing chain housing its been a great car. Since its paid for I see him driving it until it dies, with retirement looming (yeah, gov't retirement....NOT) we can't really afford another car payment anytime in the near future.
well, the weekend is upon us. I don't, however, have the rest of the money for the 540 yet. He is waiting for funds to clear.
Sooo... that leaves me kind of stuck. I hate to lose another Saturday of shopping, but what can I do? I'll probably go check some things out, but without being able to pull the trigger, it could be a huge waste of time.
Anyhoo, seller has dropped the price on that Vibe GT. But I see by the report it was in an accident earlier in life. It is quite cheap, though, so it seems they are taking that into account.
Still, though, I hate buying cars like that. Just makes my life tougher at sale time. In order of preference right now, before driving anything, I'm thinking: 1. blue Cobalt 2. blue P5 3. red protege 4. Vibe GT
The Cobalt, because of its relatively low miles and anticipated price of $4k-$4500, and being only 7 years old. The P5 only because I've always liked them; miles are still reasonable; but it loses points for the high asking price and distance from home. It SHOULD be right around the same cost to me as the Cobalt... yet has 10k more miles and is 2 years older... and gets worse mileage. Then, of course, the nice low miles on the red protege is appealing. It would probably be the most expensive of the group at near $5k.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
well, yeah, if the test drives turn up a favorite, I'd go that direction, i'm sure.
just because of location, the plan is to check out the cobalt first. If it blows me away, I'll try to work a deal on that first. Like I said, I've driven proteges. I know how they are. If the cobalt isn't up to snuff, then i'll see if I can work a deal on the red protege. It isn't as high on the list, but its close to home and I'm familiar with that dealer. I'd LIKE to get a wagon, but there are none nearby and I don't feel like driving all over the tri-state area trying to track down a decent beater.
The cheap $3k protege has been taken off line, so i assume its sold. otherwise, that was near top of list based on price.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
whoops. Just checked carfax on that blue P5. 2 accidents 6 months apart... 1 where it was towed. And here they are asking well above market value for a CLEAN one. ugh. Guess that's off the list.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'll be curious what you think of the Cobalt. Having driven its cousin (ION) for the past couple of years I suspect you will be disappointed when comparing it to something Japanese.
But, as a cheap daily runner, it may fit the bill.
BUT, I'm comparing it to older japanese stuff. So, the question is, does a Cobalt, a vehicle introduced in 2005, compare favorably to a protege redesigned in '99.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
BUT, I'm comparing it to older japanese stuff. So, the question is, does a Cobalt, a vehicle introduced in 2005, compare favorably to a protege redesigned in '99.
I guess you can let us know the answer to that question when you get the chance to drive the Cobalt.
Whenever I was used car shopping, I listed the candidates from the paper or Sunday browsing and then did some serious test drives. The ones at the top of the list tended to disappoint, so I'd keep reassessing and driving. The one I bought usually wasn't even on the initial list. I'd see it on the lot while looking at a different prospect and after a drive, made the deal. Everything was decided on test drives within my price range. Took a lot of time but there was no internet but it was fun. Everything is different now with way more customer power.
BUT, I'm comparing it to older japanese stuff. So, the question is, does a Cobalt, a vehicle introduced in 2005, compare favorably to a protege redesigned in '99.
I think the Cobalt's advantages are going to be front seat room, ride, acceleration, and quietness. It's probably also going to have a sturdier feel thanks to all that "Road-Hugging Weight" (my apologies to Ford for using one of their old advertising slogans).
I have a feeling the Protege is going to handle better, be more fun to drive, but also more cramped (may not be a concern depending on how much room you need), but also is going to be buzzier, and could have more of a fragile, tinny feeling. Just something about that car seems a bit Ford-Escortish to me.
I've heard that GM's small cars, like the Cobalt and HHR, tended to feel bigger and more cumbersome than they were. GM was still trying to go for a smooth, quiet ride and isolation. I've never driven one, though.
IIRC Mazda used to advertise that Protoge for its spacious interior (95.5 cubic feet seems to ring a bell). I doubt the Cobalt will feel roomier.
I just looked it up on www.fueleconomy.gov, and you're close! I picked a 2001 Protege and a 2005 Cobalt. The interior volumes were 93 for the Protege, but only 87 for the Cobalt! :confuse:
I'm surprised the Cobalt comes out that tiny, because it feels pretty roomy to me. But it could be a combination of a fairly large front seat, and a horribly cramped back seat.
I guess the Protege's bigger than I thought. Actually, the older Protege was listed as even bigger inside. The EPA's website lists a 1997 model at 95 cubic feet...maybe that's the 95 you were thinking of?
I always thought the Protege and the Escort (once Mazda started helping Ford out with it at least) were pretty much the same car? Or is it a case of same basic platform, but perhaps the Protege was a bit longer?
well, the cobalt was sold, so no test drive. It was still there and I had looked it over before the guy came out and told me. The thing I was surprised to find was paint bubbling up from rust on the A pillar! Yikes!
So on I went to Neptune to see the red protege. I didn't drive it since I didn't want to waste too much of their time when I didn't have the money on me. I looked it over, started it, tested the AC, clutch, stereo, moonroof, etc. Inside is very clean, but the outside isn't as sparkling as it looks in the pics, and the color isn't quite as nice in person. Tires are Falkens in the back but new no-name chinese deals in the front. Lots of scratches on the hood and doors. Underhood is pretty clean, but not the smoothest engine in the world. It didn't blow me away, but its a possibility for the right price... which is quite a bit less than they are asking. All things considered, I wouldn't go higher than $4500.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I would make a BIG deal out of the "accident" even though it could have been a key scratch. I would also whine about the miles and the fact it's a Pontiac.
It's also a stick and most people won't consider one.
Pontiacs are no longer made. I would make a big deal out of that along with a low offer. What is the worst that could happen?
Drive the Vibe for a while, see how it feels, listen to it.
I'm on my second Vibe, because after I sold the first, I couldn't really find anything to take its place... not that it wasn't fun trying.
There's a lot to like about the Vibe:
- Gas mileage is very good, keeping in mind the tall profile. On the low end, like 5 mile roundtrip commute and short hops in January, it's 23 mpg. In the summer, it's 29 for the same driving. On the freeway, it's mid-30s, but I do that so rarely that it's hard to measure. - Fantastic space inside. If they hadn't "styled" the rear so much by drawing the roof down, it'd be even better. I recently had a couple of armchairs in there. 8 foot long dimensional lumber isn't even close; 10 ft long plumbing pipe just barely fits with a slight bend. I can also haul two 75-lb canoes on the roof. Or a few sheets of drywall. One of a handful cars in North America with a solid roof rack solution. - Best of all, it was a 30 minute operation to take the warning beeper out.Like if you wanted to listen to the radio with the door open, heaven forfend. - I just had it in the shop for the first time ever. They measured the pH of the coolant -- at 65k, it "should" be flushed -- and said it's fine, leave it alone. That was all they could think of. I change with synthetic oil twice a year, never mind the miles. - There's a guy over on Genvibe who made it to 400k on the first engine/auto trans/AC unit a few years back. The Corolla parts really help.
Now why I don't love it:
- It's loud. The exhaust sound was tuned to Pontiac's idea of "sporty." I"ve had Vibes since '04 and I still wonder sometimes whether there's a hole somewhere. - Road noise is also fairly loud. On the freeway, it graciously blends into a muted roar, so it's not terrible, but it wouldn't be my choice for a long-distance car. Kinda too bad 'cuz it's a good cruiser otherwise, good sense of straight-ahead, good comfort. - Power is short with the automatic. If you use the 5sp well, it's a very good compromise. Maybe if you lock out 4th in the auto, it'll be OK, too. It's not really fast. Oh, and the 5sp is kinda notchy. The clutch is excellent. - There are lots of friction sounds coming from the doors as you go down an imperfect road -- the only kind we have in MI. In German they are called, descriptively, "Knister" sounds. My wife and I agree that the '07 is worse in that way than our previous '04, which seemd screwed together tighter. - Some people can't get comfortable, as the wheel is pretty far away. I'm fine with it, ymmv.
So drive it and pay close attention. You may really like it.
FWIW, the GT has the same engine but a hot head made by Yamaha, of all people. In my opinion, it's stupid with the automatic, because you won't get into the power band unless you fully floor it, or [non-permissible content removed] by hand, and there are no paddles.
Also, take a pen light and look into the oil filler cap. You can see past the baffle into the valve train, that'll tell you all you need to know about the oil changes. This always makes me feel a lot better about buying used.
I'm on the fence about taking a 1.5-hour trip to see it. I was thinking this morning how I'll probably put alot of miles on this beater. Starting at 135k on that Vibe might not be the best choice. Sure, its a grand cheaper than the others, but that's not a whole lot of money if the car has 1.5 years less life in it, for example.
Anyhoo... the 540 is gone. Wound up taking a check for the balance. The family lives around the corner, so I'm not terribly worried about it clearing.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
So I put in an offer earlier today through Ebay of $4500. Guy called me shortly after to tell me $5995 is their bottom line. OK.... so why are you calling? :confuse:
Didn't go see anything else today. I just wasn't feeling up to a 90-minute drive to see any of the others I've found. Hoping something pops up closer to home. I did take about 20 mins this evening to pop into each of the private dealers that line a nearby highway. There are 6 or 7 of them in about a 2-mile span. Stopped at each one and didn't find a single manual trans. :sick:
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
one of those cars you posted was from that MB place in tinton falls (hope I spelled that right). I think that is in your neck of the woods. Have you ever been there? Just curious, because I have seen a lot of their ads, and some of the stuff looks interesting, but I think a little pricey.
Just wondering if you would even consider an automatic if an exceptional car popped up at the right price? Just an outstanding car that had an automatic?
I only ask this question because you are REALLY limiting yourself otherwise.
Buying an S-70 could turn into a financial nightmare for you. I once sold an S-80 that we had on our lot to a family friend. I advised her (age 25) against it but she just HAD to have this beautiful Volvo!
She will no longer talk to me. It quickly turned into a total POS in every way possible which is typical for Volvos.
I know you didn't ask for advise but when buying a car in that price range, the color should be the LAST thing on a person's list UNLESS it is something so bad that they just can't stand it.
Agan, your insistance for a stick will REALLY limit your choices.
Funny, it's usually the other way around.
On our used car lot, sticks were saleproof and it got to the point, we would usually wholesale stick trades or take them to the auction.
Of course, they would often "no sale" at the auctions too.
To your advantage, when you do find a stick you may be able to snap it up at a distressed price especially if you express disdain for the stick!
anyway, get it all fixed up, and let me know at Thanksgiving when you decide to dump it. I'll be ready!
and to Craig's issue with sticks, from experience, on a private sale they go quicker, especially for a car that is normal to have in a stick. So hard to find, that the people that want one snap up the good ones quickly.
Might be different on a new car dealers lot where they want to charge top $ for everything!
Its not as spotless as it looks in those pics. It has some cosmetic needs, but pretty nice overall. Runs and shifts very well. Of course, not nearly as peppy as my T5 was, but I anticipate that will be rewarded with better mileage.
My wife said "get it and if you don't like living with it, you can just resell it like you do everything else."
We agreed to $3200. I plan on picking it up Tuesday night.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
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2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
I do like the color.
Oh, and its overpriced. They only paid $2700 for it at auction, so I should be able to knock them down quite a bit. But will I grow to dislike the bulk of it?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I agree about the spoiler... actually, I think that is an entirely new deck lid. In the ad, he says he has all of the original parts, so I think that would have to go...
Really low miles... 12K after three years... Makes the price seem pretty cheap..
But, not a lot of equipment, other than the mods and the M-Sport package... no power seats means no premium package...
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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I don't think the plastic body panels contribute much at all to making the car lighter. Sheetmetal isn't very heavy, anyway. With a car door, for example, the bulk of the weight is going to be in the structure and bracing of it, plus the window glass. Whether the outside has sheetmetal or plastic on it probably doesn't matter more than a few pounds either way.
We owned a 2002. Flawless, but a bit dull.
Would make a great winter beater but not at the asking price.
What's the worse that can happen if you grow to dislike it? I don't think you'll lose anything (or much) by unloading it after driving it a few miles.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Granted, we aren't talking alot of money here.
My wife says "buy what you will actually drive every day." I guess that makes some sense. No point in having a beater if it is a penalty box you don't want to spend time in. So that probably means I should avoid a Scion, for example.
I've driven a Protege and a Sentra. I've liked them both. Comfortable and reasonably spunky. I guess I should go at least check out a Cobalt. Maybe even a Civic.
Of course, I like wagons. So the P5 and Vibe/Matrix keep popping into my head, too. They are much tougher to come by, though. Looks like that silver P5 sold, leaving just the overpriced blue one. We've got the silver Vibe GT, but miles are up there at 135k. There is the silver Matris XRS from a private seller...but that's pushing the spending limit.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Having said that I had a loaner once and could not wait to return it, so I wouldn't want to drive one. Maybe an SS...
I haven't driven a Cobalt however, only sat in them at auto shows, so take my experience with a grain of salt
We had a coupe but the back seats was cramped for the kids.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
She has 5k KM on hers. Yeah, as in 3125 miles!
Yeah, all these "compacts" are definitely getting bigger. The other day when I was walking out to my car, I noticed a current-gen Civic parked next to a current Accord. There really didn't seem to be THAT much difference in size between the two.
I spotted a new Dart out on the B-W Parkway on Saturday night. As I passed it, I noticed that it only seems like a small-ish car when viewed from the side. Coming up on it, it seemed pretty substantial, and when seen from behind in the rearview mirror, it actually looked a bit intimidating. Maybe Dodge should advertise them as "The New Wide Small Car"! Unless that would stir up some bad memories? :P
Yes. I just want to make sure I don't MIND driving the beater and leaving the 135 in the garage.
Ok, I guess that's not totally feasible. But, at the least, I can't hate the car.
That's one of the reasons i wanted gas mileage as high as I could reasonably get it. Knowing that driving the car will get me 30+ mpg is good incentive.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That's it? 34k on an 06? Hubby's 09 has 105k and other than general maintenance, tires, and an oil leak around the timing chain housing its been a great car. Since its paid for I see him driving it until it dies, with retirement looming (yeah, gov't retirement....NOT) we can't really afford another car payment anytime in the near future.
I'm not sure, but I think it's part of a whole custom trunk lid... I would definitely switch that back to stock...
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Still at least a grand more than I'd want to pay, though.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Sooo... that leaves me kind of stuck. I hate to lose another Saturday of shopping, but what can I do? I'll probably go check some things out, but without being able to pull the trigger, it could be a huge waste of time.
Anyhoo, seller has dropped the price on that Vibe GT. But I see by the report it was in an accident earlier in life. It is quite cheap, though, so it seems they are taking that into account.
Still, though, I hate buying cars like that. Just makes my life tougher at sale time. In order of preference right now, before driving anything, I'm thinking:
1. blue Cobalt
2. blue P5
3. red protege
4. Vibe GT
The Cobalt, because of its relatively low miles and anticipated price of $4k-$4500, and being only 7 years old. The P5 only because I've always liked them; miles are still reasonable; but it loses points for the high asking price and distance from home. It SHOULD be right around the same cost to me as the Cobalt... yet has 10k more miles and is 2 years older... and gets worse mileage. Then, of course, the nice low miles on the red protege is appealing. It would probably be the most expensive of the group at near $5k.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'd pay more even if it didn't make sense on paper, if I liked a certain car better.
just because of location, the plan is to check out the cobalt first. If it blows me away, I'll try to work a deal on that first. Like I said, I've driven proteges. I know how they are. If the cobalt isn't up to snuff, then i'll see if I can work a deal on the red protege. It isn't as high on the list, but its close to home and I'm familiar with that dealer. I'd LIKE to get a wagon, but there are none nearby and I don't feel like driving all over the tri-state area trying to track down a decent beater.
The cheap $3k protege has been taken off line, so i assume its sold. otherwise, that was near top of list based on price.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I've only driven a base/auto rental and it bored me to tears. So did a Sentra loaner, and a Lancer rental in Peurto Rico.
Honestly I had more fun in a Kia Rio loaner car than any of the other 3.
But, as a cheap daily runner, it may fit the bill.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I guess you can let us know the answer to that question when you get the chance to drive the Cobalt.
I think the Cobalt's advantages are going to be front seat room, ride, acceleration, and quietness. It's probably also going to have a sturdier feel thanks to all that "Road-Hugging Weight" (my apologies to Ford for using one of their old advertising slogans).
I have a feeling the Protege is going to handle better, be more fun to drive, but also more cramped (may not be a concern depending on how much room you need), but also is going to be buzzier, and could have more of a fragile, tinny feeling. Just something about that car seems a bit Ford-Escortish to me.
I've heard that GM's small cars, like the Cobalt and HHR, tended to feel bigger and more cumbersome than they were. GM was still trying to go for a smooth, quiet ride and isolation. I've never driven one, though.
I just looked it up on www.fueleconomy.gov, and you're close! I picked a 2001 Protege and a 2005 Cobalt. The interior volumes were 93 for the Protege, but only 87 for the Cobalt! :confuse:
I'm surprised the Cobalt comes out that tiny, because it feels pretty roomy to me. But it could be a combination of a fairly large front seat, and a horribly cramped back seat.
I guess the Protege's bigger than I thought. Actually, the older Protege was listed as even bigger inside. The EPA's website lists a 1997 model at 95 cubic feet...maybe that's the 95 you were thinking of?
I always thought the Protege and the Escort (once Mazda started helping Ford out with it at least) were pretty much the same car? Or is it a case of same basic platform, but perhaps the Protege was a bit longer?
We had a coupe loaner, but the kids refused to ride in the smallish back seat. We took our other car instead.
So on I went to Neptune to see the red protege. I didn't drive it since I didn't want to waste too much of their time when I didn't have the money on me. I looked it over, started it, tested the AC, clutch, stereo, moonroof, etc. Inside is very clean, but the outside isn't as sparkling as it looks in the pics, and the color isn't quite as nice in person. Tires are Falkens in the back but new no-name chinese deals in the front. Lots of scratches on the hood and doors. Underhood is pretty clean, but not the smoothest engine in the world. It didn't blow me away, but its a possibility for the right price... which is quite a bit less than they are asking. All things considered, I wouldn't go higher than $4500.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I would make a BIG deal out of the "accident" even though it could have been a key scratch. I would also whine about the miles and the fact it's a Pontiac.
It's also a stick and most people won't consider one.
Pontiacs are no longer made. I would make a big deal out of that along with a low offer. What is the worst that could happen?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'm on my second Vibe, because after I sold the first, I couldn't really find anything to take its place... not that it wasn't fun trying.
There's a lot to like about the Vibe:
- Gas mileage is very good, keeping in mind the tall profile. On the low end, like 5 mile roundtrip commute and short hops in January, it's 23 mpg. In the summer, it's 29 for the same driving. On the freeway, it's mid-30s, but I do that so rarely that it's hard to measure.
- Fantastic space inside. If they hadn't "styled" the rear so much by drawing the roof down, it'd be even better. I recently had a couple of armchairs in there. 8 foot long dimensional lumber isn't even close; 10 ft long plumbing pipe just barely fits with a slight bend.
I can also haul two 75-lb canoes on the roof. Or a few sheets of drywall. One of a handful cars in North America with a solid roof rack solution.
- Best of all, it was a 30 minute operation to take the warning beeper out.Like if you wanted to listen to the radio with the door open, heaven forfend.
- I just had it in the shop for the first time ever. They measured the pH of the coolant -- at 65k, it "should" be flushed -- and said it's fine, leave it alone. That was all they could think of. I change with synthetic oil twice a year, never mind the miles.
- There's a guy over on Genvibe who made it to 400k on the first engine/auto trans/AC unit a few years back. The Corolla parts really help.
Now why I don't love it:
- It's loud. The exhaust sound was tuned to Pontiac's idea of "sporty." I"ve had Vibes since '04 and I still wonder sometimes whether there's a hole somewhere.
- Road noise is also fairly loud. On the freeway, it graciously blends into a muted roar, so it's not terrible, but it wouldn't be my choice for a long-distance car. Kinda too bad 'cuz it's a good cruiser otherwise, good sense of straight-ahead, good comfort.
- Power is short with the automatic. If you use the 5sp well, it's a very good compromise. Maybe if you lock out 4th in the auto, it'll be OK, too. It's not really fast. Oh, and the 5sp is kinda notchy. The clutch is excellent.
- There are lots of friction sounds coming from the doors as you go down an imperfect road -- the only kind we have in MI. In German they are called, descriptively, "Knister" sounds. My wife and I agree that the '07 is worse in that way than our previous '04, which seemd screwed together tighter.
- Some people can't get comfortable, as the wheel is pretty far away. I'm fine with it, ymmv.
So drive it and pay close attention. You may really like it.
FWIW, the GT has the same engine but a hot head made by Yamaha, of all people. In my opinion, it's stupid with the automatic, because you won't get into the power band unless you fully floor it, or [non-permissible content removed] by hand, and there are no paddles.
Also, take a pen light and look into the oil filler cap. You can see past the baffle into the valve train, that'll tell you all you need to know about the oil changes. This always makes me feel a lot better about buying used.
I'd be interested to hear your opinion.
Cheers,
-Mathias
I'm on the fence about taking a 1.5-hour trip to see it. I was thinking this morning how I'll probably put alot of miles on this beater. Starting at 135k on that Vibe might not be the best choice. Sure, its a grand cheaper than the others, but that's not a whole lot of money if the car has 1.5 years less life in it, for example.
Anyhoo... the 540 is gone. Wound up taking a check for the balance. The family lives around the corner, so I'm not terribly worried about it clearing.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Didn't go see anything else today. I just wasn't feeling up to a 90-minute drive to see any of the others I've found. Hoping something pops up closer to home. I did take about 20 mins this evening to pop into each of the private dealers that line a nearby highway. There are 6 or 7 of them in about a 2-mile span. Stopped at each one and didn't find a single manual trans. :sick:
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
i've been there many times, including yesterday.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Not surprising.
Just wondering if you would even consider an automatic if an exceptional car popped up at the right price? Just an outstanding car that had an automatic?
I only ask this question because you are REALLY limiting yourself otherwise.
But...I'm sure you already knew that!
Hang in there!
Sure, its the base engine, but I am looking for good gas mileage. Still... ugh. I just don't think I'm going to be satisfied settling for an auto.
So, if that, the best year S70 in a really great color at a great price, can't push me into an automatic, I don't think anything would.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
She will no longer talk to me. It quickly turned into a total POS in every way possible which is typical for Volvos.
I know you didn't ask for advise but when buying a car in that price range, the color should be the LAST thing on a person's list UNLESS it is something so bad that they just can't stand it.
Agan, your insistance for a stick will REALLY limit your choices.
Funny, it's usually the other way around.
On our used car lot, sticks were saleproof and it got to the point, we would usually wholesale stick trades or take them to the auction.
Of course, they would often "no sale" at the auctions too.
To your advantage, when you do find a stick you may be able to snap it up at a distressed price especially if you express disdain for the stick!
Good Luck!
Fact is, my '98 s70 remains the best car I've ever owned. And now I own another.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
anyway, get it all fixed up, and let me know at Thanksgiving when you decide to dump it. I'll be ready!
and to Craig's issue with sticks, from experience, on a private sale they go quicker, especially for a car that is normal to have in a stick. So hard to find, that the people that want one snap up the good ones quickly.
Might be different on a new car dealers lot where they want to charge top $ for everything!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Its not as spotless as it looks in those pics. It has some cosmetic needs, but pretty nice overall. Runs and shifts very well. Of course, not nearly as peppy as my T5 was, but I anticipate that will be rewarded with better mileage.
My wife said "get it and if you don't like living with it, you can just resell it like you do everything else."
We agreed to $3200. I plan on picking it up Tuesday night.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
it's a 1998 with 36K? base, so no moonroof?
I went back to look at the ad but the seller took it down quick.
You can find some real beaters with an asking price that high.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.