Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

steine13

>> That's as bad as too much debt.

Actually, few things are as bad as too much debt... money is like health; if you're "OK" there's not much to worry about.

If you're not "OK," it overwhelms all other considerations.

That's why a person with money problems might spend more to drive a 12-year-old clunker than a person with good credit might spend to drive new. Steven Lang over on TTAC has a few good examples on how this works, and Terry of blessed memory used to talk about it occasionally.
It's gotten a lot worse since the financial crisis, too.

I pretty much live like these self-appointed financial apostles tell us to live... I just don't make it a religion, and it grates me when they do.

Once you have debt, every penny you spend is "borrowed" in some sense. Now add retirement accounts and other investments, and taking out loans is just one piece of the puzzle.

Life is way too complicated for most of us

I feel much better now I got all that out -Mathias

Sandman6472

I am starting to think like you about this. My dad worked hard all his life and was able to retire before he was 50. Though he died 14 years later, he enjoyed life but didn't go wild, had no debt, lived within his means and seemed relatively happy. Soon, I will be getting some of that fruit which will be invested so I can move upscale in my future vehicle purchase, which I definitely appreciate...it will give me the means to set my sights a bit higher than I'd normally go. Now we also live within our means, have no debt what so ever and are relatively happy. Up to now, I've always put logic and practicality first in whatever vehicle I've purchased but now as I'm getting older, I've come to the same conclusion as Fin that we need to be good to ourselves also once our obligations are taken care of and the kids have all they need. This does not mean we are being selfish but one needs to reward oneself for always doing the right thing. That's why I hope to be able to reward myself when I do purchase my next vehicle and get something super fun with lux appointments. I'm thinking that either a new or a CPO'd vehicle might just fit the bill here and I definitely want to stay in the Civic sized category. Luckily I'll have many to choose from whether it be German, Japanese or domestic. I did see the new Cadillac that Bradd was talking about, the ATX I think that is the 3 Series size, and I really liked it. it seems to be the perfect size for me and hey...it's a Caddy something my mom always drove in the 60's, and it's a good alternative if I want a domestic product. Our last one was our wonderful '85 Olds Cutlass Supreme, a vehicle that was just perfect for our growing family at the time. Another domestic favorite of mine is the Buick Verano, an outstanding job by Buick and super comfortable seats or the few that I've sat in have been. Now that's a vehicle I could really see me purchasing even though I just do not like it's cousin, the Chevy Cruze. Once I get to drive a Verano I'll know if I really do want it on my short list but right now, I really do like it though I think it is priced a bit too high, about $2k too high. I think that's why folks do not really consider it when looking at the Civic or Elantra even though the size is comparable...it's priced a tad too much for this segment.

The C Class and 3 Series are also two that have piqued my interest greatly though I prefer the last generation C Class, an '06 or '07 model. The '11 unit I did drive a few years back was outstanding though and have read that the '13 model are really top notch. Will need to test drive the new 328 and the smaller 1 Series though I doubt the 1 comes in a sedan which I prefer due to the weight of the doors and the ease of taking passengers. Luckily, these two dealers are within a few miles of Casa Sandman and are supposedly two of the largest dealers in the country so I know they will have large inventories of new and pre-owned vehicles to choose from. The only downside is they tend to be on the pricey side...could purchase a new Verano for the price of a pre-owned German model which gives one so much to think about. New seems to be better than used but that all depends on the driving experience and from what I hear, there's nothing like the German driving one...supposedly in a class by itself. I was duly impressed with that C Class I drove, a much different experience than what I am used to right now. Luckily, I have time on my side here which is a great thing. My time frame is a few years unless the boy takes the Civic and then I'd need to move on something. But for now, I can dream and test drive at my leisure and let my funds grow. And who knows, they might even have great finance rates when the time does come and I doubt I'd ever lease as Fin has suggested though that really isn't a bad idea as the commitment is just for a few years. Now that I type it, it is a very compelling idea really, drive what i really like with less of a cash outlay upfront and then purchase a cheaper cpo unit. So much to think about here but all good ideas!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

stever

Some people need to live a little.

Ah, it boils down to what you consider a luxury or "living". If cars are your thing, that's terrific. I'd rather drive a old one and avoid some of the expense. Luxury to me means not having to clock in at an 8 to 5 job (last time I did that was '83, but at least it was a fun job).

It already feels pretty decadent around here having a three season car and a winter car.

corvette

The loan payment on my 2013 Jetta GLI is actually lower than the average monthly repair cost was on my 2003 540i. I figure if I maximize my retirement account contributions, I can give myself permission to do what I want with anything that's left over, without losing sleep over it.

That's messier and less optimal than trying to allocate every last penny of income, so it's hard for my OCD side to accept, but it's also nice to be able to buy things without agonizing too much over them.

fintail

I don't know, working and toiling and living like a pauper while the money is piled away for a rainy day that never arrives sounds like no fun to me. You can't take it with you. My existence isn't to provide an inheritance to someone who probably won't deserve it anyway.

Like what the author of that "article" said:

" I STILL consider my 2005 Scion Xa which is worth less than $7000 right now to be on the newer and fancier side of what we need."

Certainly not into cars, then, which makes it hard to relate to a car forum. I can deal with a few less dollars in the bank to indulge some desires now and then. I am not advocating spending more than you make, but going the opposite direction is just as silly to me.

fintail

And what is it you do for a job then?

Of course, one could be like the "author" of that piece, who was then helped along by parental aid in school, was able to cash in on the dot com boom and real estate bubble, etc. Lotsa luck involved that some like to confuse with work.

I figured on an automotive forum, someone who considers an 8 year old Scion to be too fancy wouldn't really be embraced.

fintail

Did he ever enjoy a cool vacation, have a fun toy, indulge any of his interests? If not, IMO, some of his life was wasted - as he apparently could have afforded more. Even my grandfather, who I considered to be frugal, had a new car every several years (although he did bond with a fuselage Chrysler and kept it for too long, pouring money into it in the process), went on vacations, allowed himself some hobbies (season tickets, horseracing, etc).

You seem like the ideal candidate, you are pretty frugal, and have reasonable desires. Why not treat yourself? It won't put you on the street. Maybe it will be a little less inheritance for someone, but so what?

stever

You have to remember that I found Edmunds in '98 looking to replace the '89 Voyager. After doing the research and walking out of the Honda dealer, I did a blast fax deal on the Quest. Still left money on the table but not as much as I would have had I not done my research.

5 months later we quit our jobs and sold the house and went on an even longer road trip than usual. That was a bit of an indulgence (think of the lost opportunity costs of "losing" all that income for a whole year). :-)

Cars are fun but I can't see having a Miata sitting in the garage when we have no commutes and run most of our local errands on foot. Just rather use the disposable income on other stuff than y'all do. We're "blowing" $250 on a show in a couple of weeks. The nice thing about spending money that way (and on good food) is that you don't wind up with a bunch of stuff to have to maintain.

stever

A reporter would like to speak to a new owner of a Dodge Dart. If you purchased a Dodge Dart in the last 6 months, and you would like to share your story, please send daytime contact information to pr@edmunds.com no later than 9 a.m. PT/noon ET on Tuesday, April 2, 2013.

houdini1

Our marriage is a little different from yours. I let my wife think that she is getting everything her way...then to be extra safe, I just let her have everything her own way.

rayainsw

Wow.
With that plan, perhaps I would still be married....
- Ray
Or.
Maybe not.

houdini1

46 years and counting.

ateixeira

Just got a new hybrid Lexus ES 300h sedan!

What sold me was the name - ES stands for "Extra Soul", and that's what I look for in my cars. It can't be quantified, it has to be experienced.

No longer just a fancy Camry, it's a fancy Avalon now. Size matters.

First impressions are that it handles like a sports car, and with the silence when the engine shuts off it communicates the feel of the road telepathically. Should be great for those track days at Summit Point.

I also like that the spindle front grille communicates clearly to females that they have to have an hourglass body to approach and talk to you. So far it has worked perfectly - no over weight women have spoken to me since I got it.

I like that the premium package uses renewable bamboo in the steering wheel, and Lexus has indicated that in the future entire cars will be made entirely from bamboo.

I also love the memory for the steering wheel position. Essential. I always forget where it goes.

The rear sun shades will keep the paparazzi at bay.

Self park means the mistress can park it, too. She's also got the 3 position seat memory. Shh, don't tell my wife.

The semi-aniline leather is much better than the non-aniline leather.

Enform reminds me where I parked, since that's too much to ask an owner to remember.

Mark Levinson sounds great. He actually sits in the car and sings to you.

Happy April Fools Day!

fintail

Too bad, I almost could have believed it :shades: And to be honest, I find the new ES to be the nicest looking one in many years, since the days of frameless door windows. When you load up an Avalon and probably get some extra stuff standard on the ES, the price difference might be minor, too.

On the car buyer note, my car, now having passed its 6 week anniversary, is going in for an adjustment tomorrow. It has developed a weird occasional pop or creak on the rear deck. Only happens when it is warm inside or the car is in the sun - I theorize a piece of plastic is expanding and rubbing against something. I suspect the dealer is going to loathe me for this, I'll insist they put felt on every border, if that's what it takes to cure it. Rattles and creaks irritate me to no end.

fintail

But you're a known cheapskate, and who knows what kind of passive income Edmunds provides :P

I know different people have different priorities, but I think the majority here, especially on a thread about being a chronic car buyer, see cars as a hobby or a passion.

qbrozen

Funny. I read the first line and thought "that's not juice!"
Completely forgot it was April 1.

ateixeira

6 week anniversary

Around here some people would already be shopping again.

nyccarguy

You actually had me up to the point where you said "handles like a sports car."

ateixeira

I pulled off a good one at work. Got an abacus for an incessant complainer who is never happy with any tech we give him.

corvette

LOL, good one! :P

bossman141

Just got back from the show. Went on lunchtime.

It's funny, I only really look at cars that i would consider/Be able to buy. Although the Corvette was breathtaking.

Couple observations:

New CTS is a carbon copy of the ATS, only bigger. Really nice.

The Buicks were all very impressive. Especially liked the Regal Turbo.

The New Impala was very impressive. Very roomy. Seemed like the materials were high quality.

There really wasn't much that I didn't like. Still not impressed with the Civic sedan, but the Accord Sport seems like a heck of a value.

Hyundai and Nissan were what would be expected. Loved the Altima.

Faves of mine were the Jetta and the Passat.

Passat is huge. loved it.

ateixeira

I like the CTS too, very nice looking.

michaellno

Had the CX-7 in for service today, and they tell me the battery is due for replacement.

We've only had the car 25 months and 29K miles. Is there so much tech in this car that the battery would be losing power so quickly?

My '06 ION, with 86K on the clock, has the original battery. And, it has lived outside more often than not.

Dealership wanted $176 for a new one - with installation. I passed. I suspect I can get something just as good for less money closer to home.

Thoughts?

tifighter

The internets say that Mazda OEM batteries are known to be weak. Its a bit of a running joke on the miata forums.

stever

Free second opinion from a parts store?

longo2

From what I am seeing these days, you can get a better deal on an Honda EX-L CRV AWD than a Subaru Forester/Outback Limited.

I know the AWD systems are very different, but unless you have to climb a 75 yard 50 degree dirt hill covered in a foot of snow to get to your garage everyday, the Honda system would probably do just fine.

michaellno

Free second opinion from a parts store?

That's what I'm thinking.

fintail

Got my JD Power survey for the new car today, with a crisp $1 bill included. I was pretty nice (as the car hasn't had any real issues).

I was waiting for the survey the dealer is supposed to send out, nothing yet.

tjc78

Wouldn't surprise me the battery is bad. When we had the Elantra the factory battery barely made it three years and 30k miles.

My 04 Grand Marquis is still rocking the original battery. (For about a week now that I said something )

corvette

That's not unheard of. The OEM battery in my old VW Jetta lasted about three years, as did the one in my old Nissan Altima. My BMW 540i still had the factory battery (confirmed by checking the date code) after ten years.

Even though I only have one car now, and it gets driven almost every day, I plug it in to the Battery Tender every few days, just to be sure the battery gets completely topped off every now and then. It may be a waste of effort, but the Battery Tender is an intelligent float charger, so it shouldn't hurt, either.

roadburner

Happy April Fools Day!

Good one!!!

I posted the following 4/1 message a few years ago:

I'm revising my fleet as well. I just ordered a white Avalon! The dealer said that white is a rare and distinctive color for that car- much like silver is on the Honda Odyssey. I hope I can sell the Club Sport for enough money to also cover installation of the Gold Package. My wife insisted on a new car as well, so the 5 Series is going to be replaced by either an Escape or a Trailblazer, as she wants the safety and security that only a class-leading SUV can provide. I also decided to forgo the Beemer K-bike and Triumph Speed Triple I had been looking at- my new bike will now be a Honda Rebel 250.

A couple of people actually thought I was serious... :surprise:

steine13

Well, the gold package was a really nice touch.

With Juice's post, the tone was all wrong, but I didn't figure out what was really going on until the Avalon handled "like a sports car."

Cheers -m

tjc78

I just ordered a white Avalon!

I had a white Avalon once, but never would I accept a gold package!

ateixeira

safety and security that only a class-leading SUV can provide

If you'd said "feeling of..." then more people may have believed you.

March sales numbers should be out soon and I hear they may be good.

Sandman6472

Yes, they traveled frequently and lived on the golf course where he went 6 days a week. He truly lived his life and his wealth let him do that. He just wasn't that giving with it, at least to me and my family. I know that he gave my siblings anything they wanted but after I got married, they basically stopped giving us anything as they thought my in-laws should do that. We had an odd relationship after I took my postal job, which they disapproved of...it wasn't good enough and they were embarrassed when they were with their country club friends whose kids were doctors, lawyers...very successful. A shame really since I did what I was supposed to do, got married first, had a job, had kids but it never was good enough. Such is life though.

Will be interesting to see what happens. Went to see that blue RX350 yesterday and it was nice...it's an AWD and pretty clean looking. Also saw a nice white 2011 3 Series with like 42k that they wanted $29,600 for but again, it looked really clean. The vehicle I really liked though was at a Lincoln/Volvo store, a seafoam green 2012 Ford Focus SEL 5 door, 10,980 on the clock and they were asking $18.9k...so I'd bet $17.9 or possibly $18.1 could get the deal done. looked gorgeous in that color, my favorite. But that really makes no sense since my Civic is doing great, I didi like the RX but it is a big vehicle and not sure it would actually fit in my space and could be a bit to long. The miles weren't too bad, over 50k and like I said, from the outside, it looked pristine with no scratches or dings and the leather looked o k though it was a light stone color. Not a deal breaker as the dark leather is really dark in those. Particularly like the wood on the steering wheel, adds a bit of lux to the vehicle. Would prefer a 2WD vehicle so will keep up the search for the time being as now is not the time to do anything.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

ateixeira

http://youtu.be/0fEIHjuA4vk

I may replace my Sienna with this now that I can cut hair in the back seat.

ateixeira

http://youtu.be/LYIlFM5YW2E

Could quiet a whining mother-in-law in the back seat!

breld

You know Sandy, I was just thinking, and perhaps that Buick Encore, as maligned as it has been around here, could be right up your alley.

You clearly like the smaller compact cars, but want added luxury. And you like the stature of the RX300. And you like what Buick did with the Verano.

Bingo - the Encore is for you! (Not sure how they're priced though).

breld

I don't know - I think it's kinda cool. Would've made quick work of the McNuggets my 8 year old decided he didn't want and instead tossed on the other side of the seat in our van. :mad:

corvette

Alex Dykes at TTAC gave the Encore a good review and praised the driving experience. He said it's not extremely powerful, but rides and handles really well, and the interior materials are excellent.

xwesx

Yes! Keeping your van clean... priceless.

ateixeira

I have mixed feelings. I found it small, and let's not forget they started with a Sonic.

Then again, it's a value if you want a small, upscale crossover.

I think I'd spend more, or just get a non-upscale brand's model.

fintail

The Buick some have mentioned might indeed be a good fit for you - and spec for spec probably has some value, too.

ateixeira

Anyone driven one? 138hp must be taxed to move all that mass.

kyfdx

2009 GTI

Direct link to CarFax Not sure this will work.

A lot of bouncing around over the last year.. including a puchase and subsequent sale within 3 months?

ateixeira

2nd owner dumping it after 3k miles is a red flag, to me at least.

qbrozen

Not sure. It may never have actually "sold" but used by the dealer in some capacity.

houdini1

LOL. It must be based on a modified flowbee system.

kyfdx

Yeah... I thought of that... but, here is some more...

1) Dealer takes car in trade in Pittsburgh area... sends to auction (not too surprising... high mileage for the year) (July, 2012)

2) Dealer that buys car at auction is in Brook Park, Ohio (suburb of Cleveland)... Not too many dealers in Brook Park... Autosdirectonline is on of them.. and, not a great reputation.. They have the car for a couple months, and it appears to sell in September, 2012.

3) Car is registered in Westerville, Ohio (suburb of Columbus).. This is a couple of hours from Cleveland, which makes me think it actually sold...

4) 3 months later (December, 2012), car is in dealer inventory in Columbus (new car dealer)... with about 3000 more miles on it.. (which again, leads me to believe someone owned and drove it...)

5) 3 more months (late March, 2013), car is still for sale, and I think has recently had price lowered from $14,900 to $12,900..

That's a nicely equipped 2009 GTI (everything but NAV)... very high miles for the year, but compared to what else is out there, extremely cheap, still..

Might go look at it on Friday... the CarFax is clean, other than the history over the last 10 months... 1-owner car for the first 85K miles...

Hmmmmmm.... :surprise:

corvette

They had the TSI engine by then, which means no timing belt and fewer problems with carbon buildup and oil burning. That said, at 90k, it may still need a valve cleaning.