Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

breld

Yup - it has the sport package. Sport, Premium, Xenons, but no cold weather. Sport wasn't a requirement as I was looking, but I'm certainly fine with it. For that matter, I was actually targeting a 325ci instead of the 330, but again, when you're looking used, you're limited to what they have. Kinda nice when it works in your favor and you get more than you were targeting.

breld

My wife and I both have navigation in our 3-er sedan and wagon, but I find myself using the maps function on my iPhone more than the in-car system.

I do like having the screen as an interface though. That's why I like that most manufacturers are heading the way of touchscreens without requiring navigation.

rayainsw

I do not know who enters the data -
or who designed the data entry forms -
but I have seen this sort of issue many times.
Yes, it has the DCT.
Further down the description includes -
'...Options include a 7-Speed Double Clutch Transmission,...'
- Ray
Buyout for me [ dlr would pay less ]
was quoted as approx. 40.5K...
[ edit ]
NOTE: That would have been WITHOUT
a CPO wty ...

jayrider

As long as your folks are healthy, enjoy a Porsche, and have enough money to keep it running, why not ? No harm -- no foul.

stickguy

sharp looking car. i don't think I could mentally handle those wheels/tires around me. with the bombed out roads and craters in them, I would go broke replacing wheels and tires. And I get tired of driving like granny, trying to dodge every pothole!

tjc78

My wife doesn't use the built in navigation on the LaCrosse. She claims "it sucks". I've never had a problem with it. The next car won't have it, as long as it has some form of integrated touch screen with Bluetooth streaming, etc.

rocketace1

I am looking to spend $10-15K and have the following 3 car options. I am having a hard time deciding which one of the three below is overall the best value for my money... here they are:

1) 2011 Honda Accord SE with 55K miles
2) 2012 Honda Civic LX with 5K miles
3) 2013 Hyundai Elantra GLS with 21K miles
4) any others you'd suggest?

The car will be a commuter car/DD and will see a lot of driving around and long distance between cities. So I'd like it to be good on gas (>30mpg), has pretty solid quality, reputation for longevity (7+ years of driving/ownership), and cheap to maintain.

Will appreciate any of your thoughtful/rational suggestions on this... I need to buy the car this week. Thanks so much

-rocketace

qbrozen

Tough to tell you which is the best value without knowing the purchase prices.

Assuming you put the average of 12k per year on your car, I can't suggest starting with one with 55k and expecting 7 trouble-free years, even if it is a Honda.

That said, fair price for the Accord 4-cyl sedan is about $16k retail. If the Civic is a sedan, that's closer to $17k. Hyundai is also up there with those between 16-17k.

Really depends on your wants. The Elantra is probably a bit nicer long-distance cruiser than the Civic, and the Accord has too many miles to start with, so I guess, of those 3, I'd say Elantra.

However, I would suggest looking at a 2012 Mazda6i sport. You should be able to get one with ~20k miles for within your $15k price cap.

ohenryx

I'm going to agree with Qbrozen here. I would have voted for the Civic, until I saw the "long distance between cities". The Civic is not really what I would call a "road car".

If it were me, I would probably spring for a new Accord. The base models are going for about $21k plus TT&L, and would be a lot better investment than buying a used one with 55k miles for $16k.

Used car prices are just too da*ned high, much better to buy new if you possibly can.

rocketace1

Thanks qbrozen. Really appreciate those thoughts. Here are the prices for these cars:
Accord - $15990
Civic - $15990
Hyundai - $13999

That said, I will look at a 2012 Mazda6i and see if that can work for me as well. Personally, I am leaning oh so slightly at the Hyundai, but since I've never owned a Korean car, I am a tad nervous. Maybe these cars have grown up and much better than they used to be.

If only I could fit a Mazda3 in there with low low miles... Will give me even better feel, else it's likely the Hyundai.

nyccarguy

They are and they do, except my Dad is the 3rd generation owner of a plumbing supply business (which I am employed at), and it is in his nature to not want to spend that type of money when vehicles in the same class will cost literally thousands less to operate over a similar period of time.

breld

Before I pulled the trigger on the 330ci, there were a couple of other interesting things I/we looked at over the weekend:

- Santa Fe. Looked at a used 2013 Santa Fe. Listed at $22,500, seems like it will be a great used car buy. Wish it got a little better gas mileage, but I like the look of it and the size - a bit bigger than the CR-Vs/RAV4s but not as large as the 3-row SUVs. Kinda like an RDX (I remember Stick had cross-shopped the two). The base engine is more than adequate, but the 2.0T is nice in not only its extra power but its smoothness.

- We happened upon this Saab wagon at a BMW dealership.
9-3 wagon, manual!

I'm not sure I knew such a thing existed. Not sure I'd take the chance on a Saab at this point, but gotta love an AWD, manual wagon of any kind!

isellhondas

Think hard before considering that Saab.

I'm one of those strange people who for some reason have always liked Saabs. Not enough to own one however.

First of all, it's a Saab. Saab is no more and that wagon is an orphan that few people would consider.

And, it's a wagon. You like wagons, I like wagons, most people do not.

Lastly, it's a stick. " gotta love"? Most people wojuldn't consider a stick.

As a used car it's pretty close to being saleproof UNLESS the needle in a haystack buyer just happens to come along.

As the years pass and parts availability becomes a nightmare, the resale values will only worsen.

suydam

Of those 3 I'd suggest the Elantra, but you might also look at a leftover 2013 Accord LX as the 2014s are starting to trickle in. Too bad you can't wait a couple of weeks. Note that the Civic is a punishing long distance car for older folks, but younger ones will do fine with it.

steine13

>> [..] and have enough money to keep it running, why not ? No harm -- no foul.

Absolutely. I did not intend this as a value or moral statement.

My test for what I'm willing to drive is that (i) it must not make me look stupid (-> Hummer) and (ii) it must not make me feel stupid (-> $5k radio repair).

In a sense, the only important thing about a car, once it fulfills its basic premise of running every day, is how it makes one feel. I know a lady who bought a 911, nearly on a whim, REALLY likes it, but hates that everyone seems to want to race her. That's the sort of thing you can hardly anticipate.

I once borrowed an '05 M3 and drove it a bit. Glorious car, made me feel ridiculous. Absolutely not me. The friend who owns it plans on holding on to it forever and probably will.

Cheers -Mathias

rayainsw

A friend has now had an Elentra for over 50,000 miles.
[ A 2009, I think. ]
His one complaint is road noise.
He chose the quietest tires he could find at replacement time,
but it still bothers him.
Point being, I'd strongly suggest you test drive an Elentra
on roads & at speeds as similar as possible to what you'd
typically travel on...
- Ray
I have ridden in his car - and I hear what he means .......

corvette

I didn't know they made the V6 AWD wagon in a manual. Neat, but $18k seems high for a 5 year old car from an orphaned brand.

jayrider

You can get a brand new Sonata or Optima for around 19K -- the Optima has a convenience package at that price. The lots are full of those rides so you can probably do even better price wise. New Malibu for 18k. New Subaru Impreza awd -- 18.5K. New Altima for 19k. I would consider new over used for the extra money. Especially if you plan to keep it for years.

robbieg

Agree that one should buy new if they are planning to drop 16,000 on a used midsized car. Plenty of decent options under 20,000.

However, it is a big jump from 13,000 to 19,000. If you want to spend less, I would at least consider buying a new compact, like the Elantra, Cruze or Focus. Just to see what a "cheap" new car is like.

I think when a lot of people start pricing new cars they get turned off by the sticker price and immediately start shopping used. These people don't realize that in many instances the actually selling price of a new car is no where near the sticker.

jayrider

If you can be happy with a compact car vs midsize -- you really make buying new the right way to go. As you said, you can find a great deal with a little research.

crkyolfrt

When I first read about the Cayenne starting to have troubles of that expense that early in its life, I wondered what that same Nav Audio unit would cost if it was the VW Touareg instead? Wouldn't it be basically the same unit?

AAMOF, unless they feel they need to have the brand name as part of the enjoyment, I'll bet she could get into the VW T for much less outlay, and probably a bit more affordable dealer serving to boot.

nyccarguy

I'm sure the Nav/Audio unit is exactly the same in the Toureg as in the Cayenne. Most likely the only difference is the Toureg has the VW logo on startup & and the Cayenne shows the Porsche crest.

The VW would no doubt be cheaper. Less expensive MSRP, lower selling price, plus 0% financing to boot. While the badge isn't the issue for sure, the Cayenne sure is prettier (this matters when you are talking about a $50K plus vehicle) than its VW platform mate. I'm certain they drive differently too. Plus they also had terrible experiences with the service departments of their local Audi/VW dealer about 10 years ago. Never again. Excellent suggestion though.

rocketace1

Can you please clarify what you mean by "... too bad you can't wait a couple of weeks...."? What is gonna happen in a couple of weeks??

Thanks

crkyolfrt

Yes, having no choice in dealer can be a real deal breaker. And especially so if your vehicle has its first 4 (I think?) years are all prepaid service visits with the VW T.

As for the looks, I had not really thought of that to be honest. I guess because I really like the look of the front of the Touareg. Better in fact..but it is a personal thing of course.. And the rest of it is so similar to the Cayenne.

As for performance with speed and acceleration there really is no (for all intents and purposes) no difference. Apparently the Cayenne does have the better ride and very slight better steering and handling, but even in those areas..ride too..the VW T is very very close. To mean it seems like the 'deal' of the two..if one could call it that as it is still very much a luxury vehicle and is luxury priced too. BTW, I should mention about driving dynamics..I was thinking of them both having the diesel. I'm not sure if the Cayenne's gas job is a lot quicker than the VW's or not. Probably is..seems to me I think it was rated for slightly better FE..or maybe that was with the diesel too? Forget..
Anyway, it's a moot point since their dealer (VW) sucks..
OTOH, since they have such a good relationship with their present Porsche dealer, I wonder if those guys could could actually source and sell/service the Touareg at that dealership?

steine13

That's kinda funny, when a dealer is so bad you don't want to go there for ... free maintenance... takes a while to get one's head around it.

Though, I have no problem believing it.

I breathed a sigh of relief years ago when our Nissan truck was 3 years old and out of warranty and I would never ever have to go back to the local Nissan dealer.

Cheers -Mathias

crkyolfrt

Interesting about the Nissan dealer..ironically I don't think they have anything I am interested in right now, not certain though..but there are 3 dealers, 30 min, 75 min and 105 min away from me and all three are quite good dealerships..especially the one that is 75 min away. Yet with my Honda, I have no use for the nearest dealer, 40 min, and I'm not too sure about the next one, 75 min (although if hearsay means anything, that one might be iffy) and the one at 105 min away are complete and utter crooks. Plus they're stupid...hellava combo if you think about it..
As for VW, a brand I am considering, the nearest one is 75 min and is a really good dealership according to my doctor, and I trust his judgement, (although the primary diesel guy there needs to talk less when someone is trying to demo a vehicle) and the next is 110 min and their reputation is unknown to me, but it took them 5 weeks to respond to a phone call enquiry about a Touareg..so that's not too promising, haha The salesman said the sales mgr just handed me this phone enquire on a VW T. "But I see you called over a month ago." Sigh..

Sandman6472

Out of the 3, I'd definitely go with the Elantra. Trust me, we own an '08 Accent sedan, Hyundai/Kia has gotten so much better and are almost as good as the big dogs now. The Elantra blows the Civic away and I believe it is the new benchmark in this segment. Sure other will disagree here but I drive numerous Elantra's for my job and have found them to be a better road car and quieter than the Civic. I used to be a big Honda fan and still own a '06 Civic LX with just shy of 44k on the clock and it's a great vehicle for what it is but the new one just doesn't seem to have that Honda goodness of long ago. I believe that Hyundai has got that fever now and is doing all it can to build better quality vehicles...just check out some Hyundia/Kia products and see for yourself!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

suydam

As the 2014s arrive they will want to move any 2013s left off the lots. May not be much choice though; they are selling well.

ohenryx

I'm sure the Nav/Audio unit is exactly the same in the Toureg as in the Cayenne.

I don't know if that's true or not. I do know that the dealer wanted $1,900 to upgrade the plain stereo in my 2008 Passat to the latest VW touch screen with NAV / Bluetooth / Satellite radio. This included a new head unit, new antenna(s), and labor.

michaellno

Punch guesses for 2013:
Michaell 15-17
Xwesx 22
Stickguy 25
abacomike 25
Qbrozen 28
Au1994 30
Anon 31
gimmestdtranny 33
Tifighter 34
Jpp5862 35
Steve 36
Roadburner 37
Nyccarguy 38
Rayainsw 39
Ateixeira 40
sandman 43
Kyfdx 45

I'm out - xwesx is next with 22.

nyccarguy

Didn't realize the Toureg also includes free scheduled maintenance. When they had a 2002 A6, it too included free maintenance. The issue was with scheduling service for warranty repairs/issues. There was literally a 2 week wait for a service appointment & 3 - 4 week wait if you wanted a loaner car. It was a long time ago, but still left a very bad taste in their mouth.

Then there was my sister's 2000 Jetta GLS VR6 that needed a new transmission 3 weeks after they took delivery. She drove it for a few years, then moved into Manhattan. My parents used the Jetta as an extra car. When my sister moved out of the city, they gave her the car back. Dad brought it to the dealer for an oil change & broken glove box. Tells the service writer to make sure everything on the car is OK as "I'm giving it to my daughter." He gets a call from the dealer saying it needs $5400 worth of work. "No thanks, just take the car off the lift & I'll pay you the diagnostic fee, oil change, & glove box."

He took it to an independent VW specialist in the city who changed whatever was wrong for less than $100.

rocketace1

@jayrider, I do agree with you in principle but I currently have 3 other pricy cars, an Audi A4, a BMW 530 and an SLK55 AMG. Just trying to keep within my pricing comfort zone hence looking for a beater car I can drive around and cross-town/cities (300+ miles roundtrip).

I do like Hyundai and have a deal in hand for a 12K miles, 2013 Elantra GLS with all the trimmings for $14500. Likely will buy it today or tomorrow after having it checked out.

Thanks all for the thoughts and comments. I do really appreciate all of your suggestions very much. You all do a great job on this forum... Keep up the good work.

isellhondas

Yep, I disagree. It's still a Korean car and the "Korean Stigma" remains in the minds of many people.

Maybe when (and if)I see one with 250,000 miles that is tight and rattle free that doesn't burn or leak oil and isn't falling apart, I'll change my mind.

Are they building much better cars than in the past...a big YES!

Have the "paid their dues"? Not yet and not for a long time.

breld

I think that Elantra is a good way to go. I had one of the new models as a rental in Austin a couple of years ago and was really impressed with its ride.

And I'm pretty happy with our Veloster so far - only complaints being a hard driver's armrest and a somewhat rough suspension over certain roads (but that is more specific to the "sports" suspension on this model).

On another note, the brakes on the 330ci I just bought have quite a squeak to them at the end of a complete stop. Anyone care to diagnose that? Hopefully that doesn't mean it needs all new brake pads? Or maybe that isn't so bad anyway - remember, I'm the one that loves these cars but knows very little about mechanical repairs/maintenance!

jayrider

The brakes shouldn't squeak --- could be pads are glazed. Take it back to the dealer for a courtesy check.

qbrozen

That's really cheap on the Hyundai. Can you give me all the details on that one? Want to check to see if it has gone through Manheim.

breld

Yeah - Q will get real info, but that does seem low for a 2013 Elantra. Could be a great deal if it checks out, but sometimes "if it's too good to be true..."

(Writing from the Hyundai dealership where the "up-shift" paddle is getting replaced on our Veloster)

rocketace1

2013 Hyundai Elantra GLS, 12,700 miles (mileage after I completed my test drive yesterday), Black/Beige, with Preferred Package (BT, 16" alloy wheels, XM, heated front seats, etc..). Dealership put a $16,991 sticker on the car over the weekend. No sale thru' Labor Day. They dropped the price Tuesday to $14,992. I contacted dealership right away and got a call from the Internet Manager. Arranged a test drive for yesterday, and by the time I got there, the price had changed to $15991. I told them the internet price was $14992 and they had no choice than to honor it. And that was the deal. OTD price was $16,524.09. Signing the papers and picking it up later today after work.

Car was a trade-in at a high-end BMW dealership in the Bay Area. It was spotless (of course) and I checked it out with a fine tooth comb. I have the VIN and Carfax report. Pretty clean...

Anything else you need? Oh, by this morning, there were 3 other buyers for the car. Looks like I got a good deal...

corvette

Congratulations, it does sound like a good deal! On the other hand, if you have three other luxury cars in the stable, it seems like a shame not to enjoy them. Surely at least one of them is working properly at any given time! :P

rocketace1

@corvette: My daughter (in College) drives the A4, my wife drives the 530i daily and to reduce the amount of miles I put on my SLK55, hence the need for the 4th car. This Hyundai will be my DD for many years to come and although at the high-end of my price goal, I am happy with the deal and what I am getting for it. Until today, I never imagined owning a Korean car but times are a-changing... Been a German-car phobe all of my adult years, and now driving a Hyundai? Shockingly true...

corvette

I didn't realize you had three drivers, that makes more sense now! Hyundai has really made a lot of improvements. I test drove a 2008 or 2009 Elantra before buying the Altima I had. That Elantra was also attractively priced, but not as refined as the current model like the one you got.

stever

I can remove my bookmark now - we're camping at Sylvan Lake tonight at one of the walk-in tent sites, per your and Xwesx's recommendation. Haven't even made it to the lake yet, but it sure is nice hanging out at the picnic table working. The drive through the Needles getting here was a fun drive with lots of critters.

Somewhere the last day or two, the passenger side cornering lamp cover fell off. And I've added another ding or two, plus the interior rear molding popped out some. Luckily the power port back there, while dangling a bit, still works (use it for recharging the gizmos while the front one runs the Garmin).

We may be limping home on three wheels at this rate, lol. Even if we do dump it a bit short of 200k, I still don't qualify for CCBA membership.

michaellno

We may be limping home on three wheels at this rate, lol. Even if we do dump it a bit short of 200k, I still don't qualify for CCBA membership.

While you may not qualify for CCBA, it'll be quite a bit of fun helping you spend your money to get a replacement.

Sorry that you found Denver not to your liking. Been unseasonably warm the past few days, which didn't help the pollution.

stever

I used to visit friends in Evergreen back in the late 70s when everyone complained about Denver Power & Light or whatever it was called. Was really surprised to drive in after the big storm and still see brown haze. Traffic has made up for the utility company I guess. The botanic garden was really nice though - spent a good three hours there.

qbrozen

congrats.

Originally you stated $13,992, which would have been auction value. At 14992, its still a very very good deal for you, and they made a little money, so everybody wins. enjoy!

rocketace1

@qbrozen, the $13992 was for one with 21,xxx miles, and no Preferred Pkg (FL-based dealership and will require shipping to CA). The one I ultimately bought is local here in the Bay Area with only 12,7xx miles and more gizmos (according to Carfax, the MSRP was $19,720, manufactured June 2012). Just took delivery a few minutes ago... Other small perks I found were that the car is registered thru June 2014 (so no need to pay for new tags) and XM service paid through Dec 2013 (nice)... Truly happy with the deal.

And thanks, again, to you all for your thoughts and suggestions... CCBA is a great thread and has become one of the longest-lived one on Edmunds.

Michaell

Seeing if this works with my new ID.

michaell
Host, Prices Paid & Buying Experiences

qbrozen

ah, ok. Well, certainly the local one was the way to go.

qbrozen

So, for some reason, probably because I was commuting in the Leaf this morning and that gives me plenty of time to ponder life, I was thinking about which cars in my history have been private party purchases vs non-private (I can't say just dealers because I have 2 that were bought from repair shops).

Anyhoo, I thought mine was drastically tilted in the non-private direction, but its not as bad as I thought. Out of my 37-car history, 10 were purchased from their owners.

And, it turns out there are only 7 new cars out of those 37.

So that means 20/30 used cars were from dealers.

What does that mean and why does it matter? Beats me. Just my random thoughts. But it did make me add a new column to my spreadsheet just now to differentiate between the used/new.

corvette

Wow, congratulations on the new gig!