Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

corvette

If that's the Grand Touring model, $285/month is insanely cheap for a zero down lease on a $30,000 car. That's probably the way I'd go.

jayrider

Sandman, a very good reason to get a new car is the level of safety features you will get that are absent in your old ride. Side airbags, esc, traction control, antilock brakes etc. Good luck.

stickguy

well, in a sample size of me, not necessarily about the MPG. I always used premium in our 2013 RDX ("recommended" but not required). But last month, I decided to run a tank of regular on a trip. And on the way back, I think I used a mix of mid grade and regular. And I got better MPG on this trip than I ever did before (a full 10% above EPA highway). Not knocking, no apparent loss of power, though that car is wildly overpowered anyway, so would not notice much!

For the ILX, it is basically a Civic motor (slightly bigger). nothing fancy really added to it. so hard to see where the premium requirement comes from, other than it being a "luxury" car. I also think if there is a place where you will lose any power, it is going to be at the top of the rev band (up in VTEC land), someplace I never go anyway.

Sandman6472

Totally agree but need to get the wife situated first. And my '06 looks and really is pretty new, still very tight and all. It's hard to justify getting rid of it and spending the funds on something newer. Now if my boy wants it for Chicago, then that changes things but at this point, it's staying in the stable. Will be hitting 44k sometime this month as I drive more for work now, 52 miles/day when I do work.

The Sandman

ohenryx

I also think if there is a place where you will lose any power, it is going to be at the top of the rev band (up in VTEC land), someplace I never go anyway.


I am not an automotive engineer, but I think you're wrong about that.

In the old days, when we had standard transmissions, and there was no computer controlled timing with ping sensors, when did you encounter ping? Right, when you "lugged" the engine at low rpm in too high of a gear.

Far too many new cars have the transmission shifts calibrated for mpg rather than performance (there are a few cars which give you a choice, "sport mode", and I do like that.)

If you're driving 55 mph in top gear, at something like 1600 rpm, and you want to accelerate, but you don't mash the throttle to the floor, what happens? The transmission does not down shift, or at least not immediately. The car attempts to accelerate while lugging. "Ping" is almost certain to ensue, the computer will retard the timing, you will lose power, and then sometime afterward the transmission will downshift and you will actually accelerate.

This is one of those areas where a diesel engine excels, gobs of torque at low rpm make it feel much stronger in everyday driving than a gasoline engine.

28firefighter

It is the Grand Touring without Tech Package (I don't need/want radar cruise control, lane departure warning etc.). I'd tend to agree with you -- plus I haven't driven anything I liked that much since I bought the Volvo.

stever

One downer about trying to get my '99 van to 200k is the lack of all the newer safety features. It didn't do all that great in the crash test results either. Not only do I want all the airbags, I want the lane departure kind of stuff too.

breld

The grand touring is so well equipped as it is, with or without the tech package.

I only had a short test drive of it, but really enjoyed it. The accord cvt is done well, but I still preferred the traditional 6 speed on the Mazda. Aesthetically, the 6's are really catching my eye, particularly in that GT trim. So, style, sportiness, and a roomy sedan, all with 38 mpg is pretty attractive.

Having said that, the 50 mpg just announced for the accord hybrid is pretty compelling.

28firefighter

Those were my thoughts exactly. My commute is not long enough for gas mileage to be a huge consideration - for me, it is build quality. My Volvo is incredibly well put together, for the most part, and I think the Mazda6 GT actually exceeds it in a lot of ways.

Eventually, I'd like to end up with an A4/328 but right now, it just is not in the cards.

corvette

My GLI doesn't have the lane departure warning. When I test drove an Accord, the warnings got testy when I was hustling the car down a two lane road. That said, I generally prefer to have as many safety features as possible.

The Truth About Cars tested the new Acura RLX, which apparently has some type of active lane departure mitigation, and the reviewer commented that it was an unnatural feeling, since the car was constantly tugging at the wheel to keep itself perfectly centered in the lane... Nissan says they'll have an autonomous car ready by 2020, and I don't doubt it.

houdini1

I don't think I would care for that. What happens when you want or need to change lanes? Is it easily overridden?

suydam

I have the Accord with lane departure warning. Yes, it can be a little annoying on country roads and if you change lanes without signaling it goes off. It's easy to turn off if it bothers you. I find the safety aspect of it to be worth it myself. I now signal more often and actually appreciate it on the highway. But like I said, it can be de-activated if you don't like it. The forward collision warning is less sensitive. It doesn't beep unless you are really too close at too high a speed. It's actually warned me when someone has drastically slowed unexpectedly.

crkyolfrt

it was an unnatural feeling, since the car was constantly tugging at the wheel to keep itself perfectly centered in the lane

No kidding...plus it can't see potholes or mufflers on the road..

Obviously they must have parameters that allow you to override it with a level of extra resistance..enough for it to know you intend to override it...of course I bet you have to listen to the bells going off while you are dodging the pot hole.

qbrozen

You definitely need to write yourself a comprehensive list and don't lose it. heck, I had to do it with my measly 37.

stever

Around here the lane departure warning are rumble strips, both on the shoulder edge and on the center line. I hit them often enough that a little car vibe would more appreciated.

But that was just one example - I also want some sort of back-up warning and I've heard good reports about adaptive cruise. Then there are all the passive systems that keep improving. The old van doesn't even have a tire pressure warning system.

crkyolfrt

I like rumble strips. Great idea..and affordable construction too considering the level of safety it provides. Same with adaptive cruise control. I think that if it is executed right it is a great safety tech. About my only reservation, I guess, is that with so much tech in these ways (self parkers too) that people become too complacent and simply not proactive enough.
I also like backup sensors and cameras..especially with the crash protection body line structures that seem to, more and more, restrict a person's view outta the car.

As for your van and your comment previously..I had been thinking about it and I don't think there is any one excuse you might feel you and Mrs. Steve feel you need might need to justify going ahead and rewarding yourselves and many years of hard work to be where you guys are at today in your lives. I say go ahead, and if you both find a replacement that ticks your boxes (including the passionate ones) then go ahead and retire the trusty Q. And let's face it...if you..God forbid.. did become the victim of a drunk or otherwise incompetent road user, the old Quest has a few years of corrosion which has also compromised much of the integrity that it did have when new.

I'd say the hardest part will be deciding on the suitable replacement, but only because I suspect another minivan is probably the most likely candidate and the choices are relatively few in number compared to all the rest of the vehicles that manufacturers think tick the recreational boxes for the masses. SUVs, CUVs etc

Too bad VW didn't invest in their own van instead of partnering with Chrysler. It probably wouldn't have any better reliability, but something tells me it would ride quieter and handle better (as it is the Routan did handle better) and if I had to be in a crash in one, I think I would put my faith in the VW. Especially in...let's say year 8 or so of ownership, if for no other reason than their superior corrosion resistant manufacturing measures they commit to.

Michaell

IIRC, I think steve is thinking about a small CUV next time around. Minivans have gotten too big the past 5-7 years - other than the Mazda 5.

stever

Yep. My wife didn't like the Mazda5 last time she looked at one, but she didn't drive it. Love the idea of a stick and her clutch leg is doing good these days so it's still on the list. The Prius V is still at the top of the list. I've been making noises that Toyota is doing a major Prius update for 2015 to try to buy one more year, but I doubt that the V is going to be included in that update, since it's pretty new anyway.

If VW had gone forward with their great retro concept Microbus concept van a while back, they may have drug me back into the fold after a 30 odd year absence.

But cars are just ways to get places for us. A reward is something like the 5 week road trip we just concluded. But since we've moved to the rustbelt a few years back, I'll be sure to use that corrosion comment if I get the itch anytime soon, lol.

crkyolfrt

Oh..I didn't know that..well there are a number of options for them then and a with better FE too..

I think the Mazda 5 size is fantastic and personally think there is a much bigger mkt for a smaller sized van than what we have to choose from. We, being NA's..the EU have their pick..

steine13

A friend of mine had the Mazda5 before it got totaled.. with three kids, he went to a Sienna, but they liked the car while they had it.

I wouldn't want one, because the usefulness of a true minivan isn't there... with a van, I want to be able to remove/hide the seats and have a flat floor; even if you use it once a year for camping and once a year for moving something big, it's great when you can do that.

We have a first-gen Sienna, and we use that feature a lot.
It's so nice when your bikes fit upright in the van; try that in a 5...

For 7-day kid shuffling duties and if one needs room for a 6th passenger, then the 5 is a great choice.
And in Steve's case, considering where he lives: Beware the Mazda rust. Fear it, eh?

Cheers -Mathias

stever

I never sleep in my van but being able to roll the bikes in and bungie them to the side is a nice benefit. No removing the wheel or seat. Of course, if you want to ride before you get to camp, you have to unpack a bunch of stuff in the back to get them out. Probably should just go to a rack on the back.

My canoe rack will handle carrying sheet goods but I don't do much of that anymore anyway.

Rust eh? Is that why I don't see many Mazdas around here? :-)

Or maybe it's because there's only one dealer in the whole UP.

suydam

Is there a rust problem with Mazdas? I've owned 3, live in Ohio, and never had a problem with rust. One of them was parked outside when my son lived in Eugene, Oregon, where it rains 6 months out of the year.

stever

Dunno, my mom's old Protege held up nicely in Chattanooga for a long time, but up here the road crews use Morton's Extra Intense High Corrosion salt on the roads. I think the car industry lobby donates the salt to the counties. Shoot, my sneakers are even falling apart at the seams.

steine13

>> I think the car industry lobby donates the salt to the counties

That's funny, I've been postulating this for years.
And no, I don't really think it's true.

As far as Mazdas: The Mazda3 and the Proteges definitely have a rust problem where road salt is involved. Look for older ones, check above and around the rear wheel wells. I learned about it from a friend who owns a 3... both sides were rusted through at 9 years old.

I don't know how the other Mazdas fare, but anecdotally, not well.

Six months of rain? Pshaw, I say. Salt is the problem.

Audi and Toyota probably have the best bodies for salted roads. They come with their own respective baggage, of course...
Tundra and Tacoma frames had serious rust problems a decade ago.

Cheers -Mathias

corvette

My E39 spent the first 9 years of its life in Pennsylvania, and the body was totally rust free. They put a lot of plastic covers on the underbelly of that model, even under the floorpan, to protect it. Some of the underhood components had some white salty spots on them, but that's to be expected.

steine13

The friend from work with the M3 also has a '97 328i coupe (is?). Bought new, of course.

That one is starting to show some deterioration, and it has had some minor rust repair done a few years ago.. but the painted stuff still looks good. He says that the manual actually requests that he go to the dealer every spring to have the car put on a lift and the underside cleaned in a very specific way to get rid of the salt deposits in all the nooks and crannies. I'd not heard that before, but it makes some sort of sense.. now he kinda wishes he had had it done religiously.. I'm kinda surprised he didn't..

Our '03 Sienna still looks good underneath and up top, but wherever there's been a deep nick or scratch -- the hood, one of the wheel wells -- rust is starting to form. There is also a brown line under the hatch window that doesn't look appetizing at all.

Mid-90s Mercedes notwithstanding, I'll take German cars for rust resistance, in the order Porsche/Audi/BMW/VW/Mercedes.
But that's just my bias and observation, no special knowledge of any kind.

Cheers -Mathias

suydam

I didn't think today's cars had rust problems. I had a 1988 Mazda 323, a 1990 Mazda 626 hatchback, and an '04 Mazda 6 wagon that I still see on the roads around here. None of them rusted. Here in Ohio they certainly salt the roads.

stickguy

in south jersey, it really doesn't snow enough to have salt be a problem. I am not even sure if they use actual salt now, or some other product. But, the rare time the car does get "salty' I can usually get it washed fairly soon after. Even if I have to take it to the spray it yourself place to get the bad stuff sprayed off.

Now, up where the inlaws are (upper NY, near old farmer) they still use a lot of salt. And the cars up there are a mess, especially in the poorer areas. Anything from the 80s is swiss cheese. japanese or American. Some of the cars you see on the road are scary.. with the huge amount of body rot visible, you know the frame/unibody must be severely compromised too.

steine13

The 323 and 626 were notorious for rust around here. Ohio ain't Michigan...

Sandman6472

Our paint is pretty pristine but we live far enough inland where salt water is not an issue. If it weren't for some slight hail damage and hits from the wife not paying the best attention, the car would look almost brand new as we garage it every night. Our 1st Mazda and we like it a lot...so much so that the wife refuses to look for it's replacement...period! Having just hit 123k, I seriously see us hanging on to it until the 170k mark unless the a/c goes completely and can not be fixed. But it still works on setting 3 & 4, so all is good. Even with showing her the comment from another poster about fixing the system before it gets contaminated, she refuses to let me do anything which is kind of dumb but hey, her choice and her car. I have given up talking about it but I will not drive it so if the a/c does finally crap out, I will not be behind the wheel. And she already knows that if it does break, I ain't switching vehicles and she will have to face the consequences of her actions here. Tough love baby!!! If it were my vehicle, it would've been repaired already as I believe in preventative maintenance up to a point!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

As long as the AC compressor isn't making noise, nothing will get contaminated. But if the AC compressor starts to grumble and knock, it would be best to have it fixed asap. If the compressor seizes, there could be hell to pay in fixing the entire system.

houdini1

Makes a lot of sense that way. Thanks for the good explanation.

sda

Though I don't post often I do my share of buying cars, much to my wife's chagrin. Just traded our '09 Civic EX, a fine car, for a '13 Accord EX, champagne frost pearl. Though the color wasn't my first choice, I like it.

jayrider

Just saw a 2002 loaded Camaro with 10 miles on the odometer up for auction with Mecum. The commentators figure it was one of many that people bought and stored since the Camaro was being discontinued. Of course, the Camaro returned and the 35k msrp car sold for 28k. Win some lose some.

abacomike

Win some lose some.

I bought a 1967 Corvette Stingray Fastback Coupe off the showroom floor at a dealership in Chicago in January, 1967. It was the 427 tri-carb version with 425 hp. Had a 4 speed Muncie stick with a spring loaded clutch. AM/FM Radio, chrome wheel inserts, racing blue exterior and black interior, and that was all it had. Just leather seating. I think I paid about $6800 or so at the time, cash. It was just seething power to the rear wheels.

I put about 10,000 miles on it, summer driving only, of course. It was the last of the Stingray Fastbacks. When I got married and moved to the western suburbs in a house, I put a cover over it and left it in the garage for about 5 years, just driving it enough to keep it from seizing. In 1986, a neighbor of mine offered me $40,000 cash for the car. Like a fool, I took it. Today, with 15,000 miles on it or so, it would be worth well over $100,000.

I just remember the awesome power in that car. Nothing on the road could touch it at the time. That car, along with the 1966 GTO in red that I owned were my very favorite cars. But I sure wish I had either of those cars now. I could live the rest of my life in style.

Michaell

In 1986, a neighbor of mine offered me $40,000 cash for the car. Like a fool, I took it. Today, with 15,000 miles on it or so, it would be worth well over $100,000.

Mike, my inflation calculator tells me that the $40K you sold the car for in 1986 is worth about $85K today. So, not far below market value, I suppose.

You did good.

rayainsw

Have you seen this?

http://www.ss427.com/1967-chevrolet-corvette-sting-ray-427-tri-power-3x2-fully-d- ocumented-barn-find-for-sale-by-owner.htm

kyfdx

That's inflation..

I'm sure that the $40K invested in an S&P 500 index fund for the last 27 years would probably be worth $300K or more...

Of course, you still wouldn't have that Corvette.. ;-)

stever

Not the original block. No wonder it's so cheap.

:-)

Michaell

I was just trying to soothe Mike's feelings, in that he probably got market value for the sale 27 years ago.

You're referring to opportunity cost .. heck, if I'd put the $40K into Apple stock, today I would be on a beach in the South Pacific.

On an island too small to enjoy said Corvette.

nyccarguy

My Dad has a 1966 427 cu/390 hp Corvette Roadster (Moss Port Green/4 Speed/Numbers Matching/Black Top/ 1967 Stinger Hood...), so I know a little about these cars. Whoever this guy is "knows his stuff" & it is obvious he didn't just cut & paste a blurb about it from wikipedia. But why go into such detail about how original the car is when the numbers don't match? And it doesn't have the original block?

kyfdx

Agreed... if it's such a great car, why is it 30% under current value, and why spend 4 days writing an ad for it...

Just send it through the auction and take your $80K and be done with it....

Oh wait.. maybe, it's not such a great car....

abacomike

Mike, my inflation calculator tells me that the $40K you sold the car for in 1986 is worth about $85K today. So, not far below market value, I suppose.

I guess you are correct - but I took that $40,000 I got for the car, sold my existing house, and had a brick colonial house on 2 acres built. In the end, I sold that house for $260,000 (original cost custom built was $135,000), so I did use the proceeds from the vette for good use.

Still would have loved to have that Corvette now. It was the throatiest sounding car I ever owned. You could have gotten whip-lash from an acceleration after popping that spring loaded clutch. What a car. My GTO was a great car too, but I did not keep that car-should have - worth as much as the Vette would have been worth.

C'est la vie!!!!

Kirstie_H

If you're shopping for a new car and are under 5’2” or over 6’2” please email PR@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information no later than Friday, September 13, 2013 to be interviewed by a reporter.

steine13

>> $40K invested in an S&P 500 index fund for the last 27 years would probably be worth $300K or more...

well, close.

straight up, the $40 would have grown to $285; if we assume an inexpensive index fund at 0.2 % expenses, that reduces to $270.

of course, all of us chronic car buyers have that and more in our retirement accounts... that's why we get to buy toys... right? right!!!??

cheers -mathias

kyfdx

Hey.. I was pretty close!!

stickguy

since hi mile TLs were the topic du jour a couple of jours ago, thought I would give an update on mine.

had it in to dealer last week, and they overall raved about it being in good shape, but decided that ball joints had "play", and rear brakes were getting close. everything else, check marks in the green boxes on the inspection sheet.

since the brake light was staying on when cold, and curious about the ball joints (never had that mentioned before) I took it up to the local tire place I use (where they shockingly will tell you you don't really need what you came in for). Per them, the entire suspension was in great shape, nice and tight, and nothing at all amiss with the ball joints. So dodged an expensive bullet, and peace of mind.

they did say the rear brakes were pretty well shot (no pad left, just about to the rivets). And that the rotors were below spec and had to be replaced (given that they were the originals, with 171K on them, I think that was fair). Rear toe also out so tires not wearing quite right.

so, used my coupon, and car is nicely aligned, fully inspected, and fresh rear brakes (the fronts were done within 10K miles). Son drove it home, and said the brakes felt a lot firmer, which is good.

The guy at the tire place did say that it was in very clean condition too, like the service writer at the acura dealer did.

hopefully now it will behave itself and not cost me money for a while. The kid getting a permanent job and getting something new would also help, in case I want to sell now that it is all sorted!

bolivar

1967 427 400hp with the front knocked off back behind the front tires (?frame damage?) and the wrong motor. 45,000 miles. Interior ratty. $74,900. Doesn't look like a good deal to me.

Sandman6472

Luckily there's no immediate need to go out and lease, purchase something new. Hate when one gets in that situation and exactly what happened back in '05 when we got the Mazda. Rushing isn't the best way to get something new and can become a costly mistake. I also plan to check out the ILX but got a feeling that by the time I am ready, the new version will be on the market already since I suspect 2017 is going to be the magic year for me. And if we get the a/c repaired and all else works out, 2015 might be the year for the wife as of last Saturday's discussion, she is in no hurry here.

Speaking of Mazda, I had to drive a Mazda2 yesterday back from the tire store and it was an o k vehicle. Picked it up and the tire icon was on so I had to ask them to re-check and fill the tires with air...ya think a Tire Kingdom would check the air pressures before returning a vehicle to the customer! The car drove funny, a thumping feeling through the wheel and sound through the vehicle...not sure what they fixed but the tires were still a problem. But compared to my kid's vehicles, this Mazda2 was a bit low rent to tell ya the truth...the seat fabric was pretty nice though and vision all around was very good. Since it only comes in a hatch version, doubt the wife would consider one but I will mention it to her. If she still wants to stay in this sub-compact category, I would really push the Kia Rio as the best of the bunch truthfully...it has the nicest exterior and I definitely prefer the control layout and visibility. The Accent is also a very good vehicle, but I think the Rio is the better one. Not too worried about trade in as I suspect her next vehicle will be in the herd for a good 10 years or so but again, I do think it's to slow and small for her and what she is used to.

The Sandman

laurasdada

I'm a Cars-R-Us kid!

Greetings, All: Circumstances may dicatate that I have to trade my beloved Jag XK for a more suitable for year-round New England driving, grown-up type car. Prior to actually driving either one yet, my current two replacement (both AWD) candidates are:

Audi A5
Jaguar XF

Since I have a Jaguar shirt and a couple of hats, of course I'm leaning towards the XF ; - ). Any opinions here on what car I should get now that I may have to grow up? Of course, test drives most likely a'comin...

Thanks for the thoughts,

LD