Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Sandman6472

Didn't know that fact and I like it...a lot! Just something about Acura and Buick that seem to be calling to me at this time, but so is Hyundai/Kia. Now that I've been driving more Fiats lately, they aren't as bad as I had first thought but they still are crap in the rain and from what I'm seeing, they don't hold up interior wise very well. I've seen numerous broken interior pieces in the rentals I've recently driven and sure, rentals are driven hard but this should not be happening. Fiat needs to get with their production people and come up with solutions for these interior parts that aren't holding up in real life use...totally unacceptable when compared to a company like Toyota or Honda!

Am very lucky that my job has scratched my itch for a new vehicle because it got pretty bad there for awhile...I have driven so many different makes and models that there are just certain vehicles I directly go to when ours are lined up in a row...some I avoid immediately! I've been lucky so far that I usually get something very acceptable and the only bad one was the Dodge Dart which had no cruise control on a trip to Orlando on a day where my pain score was a 9.5...I just couldn't get comfortable in the drivers seat with the pain and the lack of cruise made a bad situation worse. I almost called up a fellow co-worker to see if we could swap vehicles but felt badly so just made myself do it. I do remember closing my eyes the whole way back after taking my meds a bit early but I really had no choice, the pain was so over the top! luckily, I haven't had another day as bad as that while I was working...I declined the one time since because I just knew it was the wisest course. I am blessed that a few of my co-workers can see and sense when I am not feeling well and they do try to make sure that I don't need anything to make it easier and that helps a lot...one thing I don't like to do is to put anyone else out during those times so I've just been grinning and bearing the pain!

The Sandman

stever

Does anyone still make a car (crossover or SUV preferably) with diagonal handles? Or at least something solid to hang on to.

stickguy

As you well know, I have been going carless for a while now (or more accurately, sharing cars among the family, with both my kids living at home now). But during the day, I am home without one.

But, the plan is about to be put to the test. I have to run up to NY for a few days (+/-) since my Mom had to go into the hospital last night night, and will probably be there the rest of the week. So, want to see her, and "keep an eye" on my dad since he will be in the house alone, and going back and forth to see her.

So, that means I need wheels. Which happen to be my wife's car (the RDX). Leaving her carless. She is working from home today (and can probably do so all week) but now she has to wait for one of the kids to come home if she needs to go someplace. At least my son is now working in the same office as my wife for when they need to carpool to leave me a car.

but if the situation becomes one where I have to make more regular trips (about 2 hours each way) I think the add a car and take the $ hit will be coming a lot sooner than expected.

Sandman6472

Solution seems simple, but another vehicle is gonna have to happen. Thought the boy was going to get something new when he started work...well now he's working so why not? You take the TL and for when you need to run up north, let the wife use it while you take the RDX. But knowing that after a few trips she won't be happy, why don't you just get a cheap lease for the time being, a 2 year one that the boy likes also. Either he can take it over or you just keep it while keeping the TL in the herd. This would be the cheapest and easiest way out because one thing I do know after being married 32 years, the wife ain't gonna be happy after the 2nd or 3rd time you take "her baby"...and deep down, you know this.

Maybe you shoulda kept the Integra but hey, no hind sight here. And renting for those times could get cost prohibitive. Wonder if the daughter would use the TL for the times you go so you could use the Volvo? Decisions, decisions!

The Sandman

Michaell

Not sure you can see this if you're not a member of Facebook, but I've posted my Ferrari F430 video here.

Frustrated that the 458 Italia was driven by such a slowpoke .. really impeded my progress on the first lap.

But, overall, quite a fun time and something I'll be doing again.

stick .. i'm with sandy, I think you'll be adding that 4th car to the fleet sooner rather than later. A cheap lease would certainly work, but I suspect you'll get something a bit more fun that is used.

Keep us posted.

stickguy

Well, the Integra was not really a help. I probably would not have taken that on a longer trip, and no one else could drive it.

The kid is working, but it is a temp job while he is continuing (in theory) to look for a "real" job. So we were reluctant to take on a commitment not knowing how long that would go.

But, if I do need something, just based on bank account and cash flow and "the future" a cheap lease with nothing down is likely what we would do.

Sandman6472

Those are a bit tough to find right about now...trust me, I've looked! Deep down, a C Class 2 year lease would be kinda fun if ya know what I mean or even a 3 Series, just something for a short while to scratch that itch once and for all! But from our discussion the other night, ain't gonna happen here as a lease is plain dumb according to her. Yet with her business, think it would be just up her alley as she takes the deduction now on her vehicle.

Well, y'all will figure something out and who knows, it could be something really cool to!

The Sandman

nyccarguy

So a year from this coming Sunday, I will have to turn in my beautiful, titanium silver, 2011 BMW 328xi. As of tonight, I've got about 28,500 miles so I'm not too worried about going over the lease miles. Most likely I'll try and strike a deal on Labor Day Weekend which means I'll be doing lots of test driving next spring & summer. Right now I'm in research phase (ok, who am I kidding? I'm constantly in research phase).

So without further adieu, I present to you, my fellow chronic car buyers, my preliminary "short list":

Honda Accord Sport
Honda Civic EX-L
Honda CRV EXL
Volkswagen Jetta TDI Premium
Volkswagen Jetta GLI
Volkswagen GTI
Volkswagen GTD
Volkswagen Passat TDI

I'm really going to try and stick to a $25,000 ish (plus tax) budget. Of course I'll be happy to provide detailed test drive information along the way. I'm also open to suggestions! Let the games begin.

corvette

Some of these choices are not like the others. The Civic EX-L, CR-V EX-L, Jetta TDI Premium, and Passat TDI don't really have a performance bent, which is fine, but may be a shock coming from a 3-series.

Regardless, I vote to strike the Civic EX-L from the list. Once you fully option a Civic like that, an Accord with fewer luxuries like leather starts to look more and more attractive. The Accord Sport lacks a sunroof and leather seats, but has upgraded wheels/tires, and the gas mileage is within spitting distance of the Civic. And if you decide the Accord Sport is too sporty, there's always the Accord LX (which has very narrow 205mm wide tires, but otherwise has an incredible amount of features for the price).

The new GTI and GTD look very nice, although I'm unsure where the retail prices will end up.

Michaell

GTD will probably start in the upper 20's, before options.

I too would scratch the Civic and CR-V. I like the Accord idea. What about the Mazda 6, perhaps with the Skyactiv-D engine?

rayainsw

Although I drive a GTI, and the previews I have read
about the next generation [ what you'd be looking at
next September ] are overwhelmingly positive -
it will be not only 'all new', but built
in a different plant - in Mexico.
All that would give me pause...
Enjoy the process!
- Ray
Happy with the last of the current gen...

corvette

"All that would give me pause..."

On a VW, it would give me a little pause, too. On the other hand, comparing the new 2013 Accord and Altima to the old models they replaced, the new ones are better all around.

breld

Fun! I like all those cars as well, but agree with the recent posts that you'll probably end up striking the Civic and CR-V from the list. But that's no reason to go and have fun testing them out first!

Based on corvette's and rayainsw's recent experiences, seems that transitioning from a BMW to the GLI or GTI is a great way to go!

The Accord is always on my radar for its overall "goodness" and the Sport model is the way I'd likely go too - but I'm sure you understand the "sport" moniker has more to do with cosmetics on that car than anything else. Nothing wrong with that, but don't expect the feel to rival your 328xi.

Agree with Michael on the Mazda6 - it does seem to add a bit of sportiness over the Accord, both in look and feel.

VW's adding a "sport" model to their Passat next year too - probably a subtle body kit and snazzy wheels, paired with the new 1.8T. May be worth a look too, if you'd like the extra room over the Jetta.

Of course, there's always the CPO route if you want to stick with a BMW.

nyccarguy

I'm sure some of my aforementioned choices don't have much of a "performance bent," but I'm OK with that. Like I've said before, I LOVE my BMW, but don't necessesarily need "The Ultimate Driving Machine" for my 65 mile per day, 6 day per week commute.

I'm obviously a little concerned with the gas mileage, but that in no way is my deciding factor.

The things you mentioned about the Accord Sport are what keep bringing me back to it. There are a few things that the Accord Sport doesn't have that I'd be interested in (lane watch, more powerful stereo) but then you start talking more money for an EX & it doesn't have the dual exhaust, lip spoiler, & 18s. I definitely would not get an LX (not that there's anything wrong with that).

I'm putting the gas & TDI VWs on my list because they have gotten such good reviews from some of my friends here (breld, ray, you corvette...).

Michaell

Good points, all.

A few weeks back we had this discussion .. since nyc has his 'fun' car with the Prelude, his DD can be a bit more, shall we say, 'pedestrian'.

Those of us who can only have one car - me, for example - would like to combine the two.

Which is why the Golf GTD would seem to be a decent fit - some sportiness, decent fuel economy and practicality all in one package.

The 2014 Mazda 3s (2.5L Skyactiv) would also fit the bill.

Over in the Accord forums, there's some talk about equipment levels between the Sport and the EX, with the same frustrations you've expressed.

tifighter

I recently went through the whole 'which Accord trim' debate before ultimately ending up with the EXL. I did test drive the Sport, and it felt no different then the other Accords. For me, the extra content trumped the extra 4 HP. No suspension differences save for 18" rims vs 17". I do like the look of the Sport wheels though.

There are a lot of subtle features that get added as you look up the line that get overlooked. EX adds to Sport:

-Smart proximity key / push button start - little known but this also gives you the ability to open windows remotely to vent car before entering.
-Moonroof
-Lanewatch
-All power windows illuminated (seems silly, right?)
-Express up/down windows driver and pass
-Rear seat vents
-lockable glove box (another silly one)
-heated mirrors with turn signals
-separate tweeters front
-EX gets you 1 extra mpg city and highway and 1.5' tighter turning circle

That's a lot of stuff for $1300 and to me its a no-brainer. Some guys on the accord forums have added the spoiler and wheels to EX and EXL models but not so much on the dual exhaust.

nyccarguy

I agree with you Ray. New plant, new model, & VW aren't what I'd call a recipe for trouble free, long term ownership. Maybe there'll be some screaming deals on leftovers though:)

nyccarguy

breld - I know the Accord "Sport" is just a cosmetic package, good looks still account for something though:)

I know the Mazda 6 gets great reviews and people love them, but if I'm going to go FWD, Japanese, "pedestrian," then I'll just stick with what I know. The dealer where I service our Pilot is first rate & their service writers are honest and never try to push anything on me that's not needed.

I guess a CPO 3er will always be in the back of my mind, but at what cost? Dealers usually have high asking prices of the "low mileage, lease turn in, cream puffs." Like you just proved with your E46 Cabriolet purchase, how much more are you willing to spend for a car with "low miles?"

nyccarguy

Damn! Everyone is straight up hatin' on the Civic:) LOL! The 2 appealing things about the CRV are: The 4WD & the insane resale value.

I don't want to be Mazda's Guinnea Pig for the SkyActiv D.

laurasdada

Short of first model year/new plant issues, I'd think that staying Teutonic might make you happiest. Although, as noted, you still have the Prelude for fun, but the VWs would still give you the German road machine experience. From what I've read, and my father's love of his, you should definately review the new Mazda 6 (or 3) if the Honda's are truly on your radar. Sounds like Mazda is becomming more BMW-ish than BMW is currently!

I'm going to try and keep my XK, I spent $ this year on new tires and brakes. See if my wacky winter plans work... Still might test drive XF and A5, see if I can be tempted by a spectacular deal...on a car I would enjoy living with, of course.

nyccarguy

Definitely got you on my mind too when thinking Accord. I have to be careful with the "oh, it's only $1300 more for all this stuff" because it becomes a slippery slope really quick:

So I like the look of the Accord Sport with an MSRP of $25,305 (including destination.

An EX is only $1,165 more with an MSRP of $26,470 (including destination). The EX includes: Lane Watch, Power Moon Roof, Push Button Start, & a 160 watt stereo with 6 speakers.

An EX-L is only $2,590 more with an MSRP of $29,060 (including destination). The EX-L includes: Leather, 10 way adjustable power driver's seat w/ lumbar, a 360 watt stereo, Lane Departure Warning among other things.

So If I'm going to spend $29,060 on an EX-L, why not just spend $2075 more and go for the V6 (because we only live once, right?).

And while we are at it, if I'm spending over $30K on an Accord, then I should go and buy a CPO 2011 335d:)

I'm sure I wouldn't notice the 4 horsepower difference between the Sport & The EX either.

nyccarguy

Definitely got you on my mind too when thinking Accord. I have to be careful with the "oh, it's only $1300 more for all this stuff" because it becomes a slippery slope really quick:

So I like the look of the Accord Sport with an MSRP of $25,305 (including destination.

An EX is only $1,165 more with an MSRP of $26,470 (including destination). The EX includes: Lane Watch, Power Moon Roof, Push Button Start, & a 160 watt stereo with 6 speakers.

An EX-L is only $2,590 more with an MSRP of $29,060 (including destination). The EX-L includes: Leather, 10 way adjustable power driver's seat w/ lumbar, a 360 watt stereo, Lane Departure Warning among other things.

So If I'm going to spend $29,060 on an EX-L, why not just spend $2075 more and go for the V6 (because we only live once, right?).

And while we are at it, if I'm spending over $30K on an Accord, then I should go and buy a CPO 2011 335d:)

I'm sure I wouldn't notice the 4 horsepower difference between the Sport & The EX either.

nyccarguy

"the VWs would still give you the German road machine experience."

That's why they are on the list in the 1st place. I appreciate everyone's input.

jayrider

Figure whether compact vs midsize will best meet your needs. All the major car mfrs make good cars. After you decide on size -- then look for the best deals --- they vary depending on time of the year. Nice comfy and cheap will serve you well -- any brand will do.

Michaell

bradd - not sure what it is about the Civic that turns me off (other than the Si, that is). Maybe it's the goofy two tiered dash. Maybe it's the slightly off putting styling. But, those are certainly subjective issues - one man's hamburger is another man's steak.

You do bring up a good point, however - the service experience. You've got lots of good things to say about your local Honda dealer, and that counts for a lot.

Seems to me like you ought to stick with Honda, and just figure out which model and trim level you want to get.

EDIT - when you talk about your commute, is that 65 miles one way?

breld

Oh, I'm with you on the Accord Sport - that would be my choice among the models. Along with the exterior aspects, I'm a sucker for a leather-wrapped steering wheel, which is also included on the Sport model (but not the EX).

I often think of getting something comfortable, reliable and relatively inexpensive to own as my main commuter, and letting the older BMW satisfy the sporty/german itch. If I did that, I like the Accord and Mazda6, maybe a Mazda3 or Golf/GTI if I went a bit smaller.

Nothing really against the Civic - a friend just bought a 2013 EX-L and it's real nice. I just think that Accord Sport is a great value, and the better way to go. I'm starting to actually see a few used Accord Sports around, for around $20. But a brand new one right now seems to be about $23k. Either way - a lot of car.

roadburner

GTI or GTD for me. If I needed a larger FWD sedan it would be either the three pedal Accord or Mazda 6. I'd also give the Mazda 3 a good look.
One other thought; a 2013 Focus ST with virtually every available option can currently be had for less than $25k :

http://billcollinsford.net/Louisville/For-Sale/New/Ford/Focus/2013-ST-5-Door-Ora- nge-Car/21221381/

Not bad for a top tier hot hatch with xenons, heated Recaros, and navigation. In twelve months you should be able to get a similar deal on a 2014 ST...

nyccarguy

If they offered an Si sedan with an Automatic, I'd probably put that on the top of my list, but they don't...

My commute is 65 miles round trip. 6 days per week. According (no pun intended) to my fuelly dashboard, I'm averaging 20.5 mpg & it costs me about $.20 per mile to drive my BMW.

The dealership service is part of the overall ownership experience. I had a few extremely minor warranty repairs performed on our Pilot. Most people wouldn't have even noticed & the dealership very well could have brushed me off with a
"We couldn't find the problem, but if it resurfaces..." Or "they all do that." The dealership found the problem & fixed it on the 1st visit.

suydam

You won't spend $29k on an Accord EXL. They sell for either a bit over or under invoice depending on where you live. Invoice on my '13 was 26,300. I think 2014 went up by about $250.

nyccarguy

Anything with a stick is out of the question for some selfish & selfless reasons: #1 being the traffic around here at times is atrocious. Nothing remotely close to DC or LA, but it gets bad. #2 is that I do switch cars with my wife a few times per month & she doesn't drive stick.

I probably should also give the 2014 Mazda 3 Hatch a good look too. It gets fantastic reviews.

nyccarguy

I know that Hondas sell for invoice rather than closer to sticker. I know I'm not going to pay $29K for an EX-L. I also know I'm not going to pay $25K for a Sport;)

How do you like your car so far?

nyccarguy

I know $3K is $3K & there is probably nothing wrong with buying a used Accord Sport. I'd just rather buy new, since I'm financing anyway. I feel like Hondas (especially CPO Hondas) are so close in price to new, I'd rather pat the extra $ for that new car smell;)

laurasdada

Re: Civic; what about the Acura ILX? I've read it's really not a bad car (more than just a gussied-up Civic), with some hard bargaining, Civic pricing?

suydam

Love it. Still miss my old Maxima but the new Accord is so great on gas mileage, has plenty of power even with the 4 cyl., and has all the new features my 12 year old car didn't have, even though it was loaded for its time. It's pretty sweet. Love the way it drives. I guess when you wait a long time between cars there is the benefit of all the new goodies that have come along. Clearly I am not on the CCBA side, just a lurker because I learn about all the cars you folks drive!

nyccarguy

I'll have to do some pricing research to see what they are actually selling for.

nyccarguy

Cool, glad you like it.

Speaking of Maximas, they freakin give them away like H2 Hummers when gas hit $3/gallon.

breld

Wait! How about a TSX? : ) Talk about full circle.

I get the dealership service experience. That's probably the number one reason I'm comfortable buying the used BMWs - we have an independent mechanic who we like and trust. Makes a big difference.

I actually haven't found a local Honda dealer I like all that much (for servicing the Odyssey). So that isn't a factor for me if I were to decide between a Honda or Mazda.

suydam

If they would have improved the mpg and not required premium fuel, and slimmed them down a bit, I would have bought another one. The problem now is distinguishing them from the Altima.

nyccarguy

Ha! Funny you say that. When I was trying to decide whether or not to dump the TSX after 2 1/2 years, I was talking to my best friend. I said to him: you know after leading this BMW, I'll most likely end up with another TSX because the new 3ers will be so much more expensive & this fantastic lease deal/rebate combo won't be available.

roadburner

I get the dealership service experience. That's probably the number one reason I'm comfortable buying the used BMWs - we have an independent mechanic who we like and trust. Makes a big difference.

I agree; I have access to a great BMW dealer as well as a great indie BMW tech- ditto for the Mazda(I never use a dealer for the Jeep). As I've said in the past, it makes me extremely reluctant to stray from those brands.

stever

It's a bit too bad that invoice and MSRP prices have become so muddled; car dealers really only have themselves to blame I suppose. They've gone into holdback so much, that would be the "new" invoice but now the manufacturers are playing all sorts of games with bonuses and givebacks.

But you guys know that better than me.

corvette

The lip spoiler on the Accord Sport is actually a negative for me. I like the larger wheels (with wider tires) and maybe the dual exhaust. I did not test drive a four cylinder Accord, but I'm sure the 17" wheels/tires on the EX/EX-L would work fine with that engine. It handled extremely well on the standard 215mm width 17" tires, my gripe is that they are too narrow to put the power of the V6 on the ground. If memory serves, the LX model has 205/65/16 tires, which are bound to feel very squishy in the corners due to the high sidewall.

Per the review I read on The Truth About Cars, the V6 is not the most desirable model of Accord. Maybe I should have driven the I4.

sda

I struggled with the same considerations and ended up buying an EX. One item that has not been mentioned is the EX has A/C vents for the back seat. This is a nice plus in the south. Also I wanted a sunroof and preferred the 6 speaker stereo. I would have liked the leather wrapped steering wheel, shift paddles and dual exhaust--looks authoritative. The lane change camera works well and is helpful when changing lanes. The Accord has a firm, somewhat stiff ride. The EX has 17" tires not 16" like the LX or 18" like the Sport. I'm not sure I would want an even firmer ride that the Sport would have, though I admit I didn't drive one. I am impressed with the EX. Seems to be a good balance of features, drives great, is surprisingly quick, feels solid, fairly quiet--almost quiet, and even with less than 900 miles, has been getting 32-38 mpg. I have a commute of 42 miles each way, mostly interstate, though it includes about 20 minutes of heavy stop and go traffic.

qbrozen

I think you would grow to hate any of the Hondas, much as I did. There ain't a damned sporty thing about them.

If I was forced to go FWD pedestrian, the new mazda3s and GTD would be top of my shopping list (although, as pointed out, the GTD might break your budget).

There are plenty out there that I would at least try out though.
Buick Verano
Dodge Dart
Fiat 500L
Fiesta
Focus
Fusion
Juke

nyccarguy

Ha!

nyccarguy

Interesting find on the used front. A 1 year of Acura TL SH-AWD might be interesting. There's a 2012 Black/Black w/ tech pkg for sale at a BMW dealer on Long Island. 28K miles. Asking $27,668. What's something like that cross the block at qbrozen?

qbrozen

Price is definitely concerning.

Here is what I'm seeing.

09/04/13 DALLAS Regular $32,100 7,526 Avg BLACK
08/22/13 CHICAGO Lease $32,000 10,022 Avg BLACK
09/04/13 DALLAS Regular $31,750 13,319 Avg BLACK
09/04/13 DALLAS Regular $31,000 26,763 Avg WHITE
08/27/13 RIVRSIDE Regular $27,500 40,215 Avg WHITE

nyccarguy

So it's cheap for a reason! NEXT! That's why I love this board, I can add or scratch off potential cars with everybody's input;)

Michaell

Had a chance to stop by the local Toyota / Scion dealer last night to check out the FR-S.

My 46" waist was not terribly comfortable behind the wheel.



The search continues....

Mr_Shiftright

That's a car worth dieting for!